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Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic (Read 3268 times)
Unforgiven
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Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm
 
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.
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lee
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #1 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:51pm
 
The art of war is not to die for your country; but to make your enemy die for his.
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freediver
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #2 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:05pm
 
Sounds like the sort of shallow minded luxury you can afford when your security is handed to you on a platter.

What if you have to kill some people to save others?

Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?

Is it just the bit where they get paid that you object to?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #3 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us.
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Gordon
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #4 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:09pm
 
Because
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freediver
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #5 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:13pm
 
Gordon wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:09pm:
Because


Surely if you asked nicely you could achieve a peaceful resolution to this problem.

Either that, or blame America.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #6 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:02am
 
issuevoter wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us.


Do I have someone in mind?

I sure do. Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr., the soldier who stopped Calley and his monsters after they massacred 500 Vietnamese civilians.

The soldier who was killing civilians women, children, and old people, William Calley didn't serve a day in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.

Quote:
Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) retired as a United States Army Major, and formerly a warrant officer in the 123rd Aviation Battalion, 23rd Infantry Division, who played a major role in ending the My Lai Massacre in Sơn Mỹ Village, Sơn Tịnh District, Quảng Ngăi Province, South Vietnam, on March 16, 1968.

During the My Lai massacre, Thompson and his Hiller OH-23 Raven crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, stopped a number of killings by threatening and blocking officers and enlisted soldiers of Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division. Additionally, Thompson and his crew saved a number of Vietnamese civilians by personally escorting them away from advancing United States Army ground units and assuring their evacuation by air. Thompson reported the atrocities by radio several times while at Sơn Mỹ. Although these reports reached Task Force Barker operational headquarters, nothing was done to stop the massacre. After evacuating a child to a Quảng Ngăi hospital, Thompson angrily reported to his superiors at Task Force Barker headquarters that a massacre was occurring at Sơn Mỹ. Immediately following Thompson's report, Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker ordered all ground units in Sơn Mỹ to cease search and destroy operations in the village.

In 1970, Thompson testified against those responsible for the My Lai Massacre. Twenty-six officers and enlisted soldiers, including William Calley and Ernest Medina, were charged with criminal offenses, but all were either acquitted or pardoned. Thompson was condemned and ostracized by many individuals in the United States military and government, as well as the public, for his role in the investigations and trials concerning the My Lai massacre. As a direct result of what he experienced, Thompson suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder, alcoholism, divorce, and severe nightmare disorder.[citation needed] Despite the adversity he faced, he remained in the United States Army until November 1, 1983, and continued to make a living as a helicopter pilot in the Southeastern United States.

In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.[1] Thompson and Colburn also returned to Sơn Mỹ in 1998, where the massacre took place, to meet with survivors of the massacre. In 1999, Thompson and Colburn received the Peace Abbey Courage of Conscience Award. ...
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Bias_2012
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #7 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:31am
 
The Vietnam war started with the slaughter of innocent South Vietnamese villagers, just across the border, by soldiers from the North, your brave socialist pals
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #8 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:49am
 
A soldier who kills defending his country is a hero.

A soldier who kills when his country is not under threat is doing his job.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #9 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:59am
 
Raven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:49am:
A soldier who kills defending his country is a hero.

A soldier who kills when his country is not under threat is doing his job.


Agree.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #10 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:54am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Sounds like the sort of shallow minded luxury you can afford when your security is handed to you on a platter.


Without doubt!
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #11 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:02am:
issuevoter wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us.


Do I have someone in mind?

I sure do. Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr., the soldier who stopped Calley and his monsters after they massacred 500 Vietnamese civilians.

The soldier who was killing civilians women, children, and old people, William Calley didn't serve a day in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.

Quote:
Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) retired as a United States Army Major, and formerly a warrant officer in the 123rd Aviation Battalion, 23rd Infantry Division, who played a major role in ending the My Lai Massacre in Sơn Mỹ Village, Sơn Tịnh District, Quảng Ngăi Province, South Vietnam, on March 16, 1968.

During the My Lai massacre, Thompson and his Hiller OH-23 Raven crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, stopped a number of killings by threatening and blocking officers and enlisted soldiers of Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division. Additionally, Thompson and his crew saved a number of Vietnamese civilians by personally escorting them away from advancing United States Army ground units and assuring their evacuation by air. Thompson reported the atrocities by radio several times while at Sơn Mỹ. Although these reports reached Task Force Barker operational headquarters, nothing was done to stop the massacre. After evacuating a child to a Quảng Ngăi hospital, Thompson angrily reported to his superiors at Task Force Barker headquarters that a massacre was occurring at Sơn Mỹ. Immediately following Thompson's report, Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker ordered all ground units in Sơn Mỹ to cease search and destroy operations in the village.

In 1970, Thompson testified against those responsible for the My Lai Massacre. Twenty-six officers and enlisted soldiers, including William Calley and Ernest Medina, were charged with criminal offenses, but all were either acquitted or pardoned. Thompson was condemned and ostracized by many individuals in the United States military and government, as well as the public, for his role in the investigations and trials concerning the My Lai massacre. As a direct result of what he experienced, Thompson suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder, alcoholism, divorce, and severe nightmare disorder.[citation needed] Despite the adversity he faced, he remained in the United States Army until November 1, 1983, and continued to make a living as a helicopter pilot in the Southeastern United States.

In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.[1] Thompson and Colburn also returned to Sơn Mỹ in 1998, where the massacre took place, to meet with survivors of the massacre. In 1999, Thompson and Colburn received the Peace Abbey Courage of Conscience Award. ...


Can soldiers killing people be heroic?
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Unforgiven
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #12 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic?


No!

It's just another day at the office.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #13 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:42am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic?


No!

It's just another day at the office.

The Nazis would still be in power if soldiers didn't kill. Tyrants don't get overthrown with harsh words.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #14 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic?


No!

It's just another day at the office.


It seems to me that the heroism of Thompson depended on the unwillingness of the other American soldiers to shoot him.

Are you suggesting it is only possible to be heroic against enemies who respect the rule of law and thus give you non-violent options?

What if you have to kill some people to save others?

Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?
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It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
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