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The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy (Read 20116 times)
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #105 - Sep 4th, 2018 at 6:47pm
 
Quote:
Are you suggesting the judge would allow men to wear masks in the court gallery?


I'll leave the direct question to Gandalf.

But.....no Judge would allow that....they are far too important to be taking the piss out of.  Just ask them.

However, if the potential mask wearers were properly searched and found to be clean.....why ought a Judge who does not have his finger up his own arse give a stuff?

Who cares.

You need to understand Effendi.....despite Judges' attempts to keep that finger up their own arse, as soon as the daily grind begins.....sausage meat in.....sausages out.  What happens in Court Rooms is a clinical process and individuality is non-existent.....unless a Jury is involved.  It is a boring factory, one of many across the Planet, and nothing in the public gallery impacts on that.
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #106 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 10:08am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 6:34pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:08am:
freediver wrote on Sep 3rd, 2018 at 10:28pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3rd, 2018 at 8:15pm:
I haven't heard her argument FD - have you?

If it was anything like yours - which I'm pretty confident it isn't - then of course it would be completely irrational and baseless.


From memory, it was the risk of intimidating witnesses.


Incorrect.

He doesn't mention witnesses and only gives some vague waffle that could mean anything and nothing:

Quote:
Justice Christopher Beale ruled Supreme Court spectators must have their faces uncovered in order to prevent misbehaviour in the courtroom that could lead to the discharging of a jury.


Quote:
“Requiring spectators’ faces to be uncovered is, in my view, the least restrictive means of upholding court security,” Justice Beale said.


He seems to be under the impression that the risk of a courtroom riot is somehow reduced if he can see everyone's face.

But gee what a surprise that its yet again a man - dictating what women can and can't wear.


Are you suggesting the judge would allow men to wear masks in the court gallery?


No. I would expect him to be consistent. I would say though that the situation is by far most relevant in the case of a niqab, as it is by far the most common choice of face covering in society. It is really the only form you are likely to see on the street as a 'normal' piece of clothing, and its probably only going to become more and more common. Which is why it makes sense for judges - and anyone else who insists on blanket 'face covering' bans, should consider making this an exception. It shouldn't be a security risk, as the women themselves have willingly volunteered to undergo identity and security checks (so there goes your "it could be a man" argument). 

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #107 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm
 
So in considering a ban on face coverings, they should exempt the most common face covering they are likely to encounter?

Quote:
It shouldn't be a security risk, as the women themselves have willingly volunteered to undergo identity and security checks (so there goes your "it could be a man" argument).
 

I don't think either myself or the judge cited security as a justification. They aren't going to hide a bomb in their eyebrows.
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #108 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
So in considering a ban on face coverings, they should exempt the most common face covering they are likely to encounter?


Yes.

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
I don't think either myself or the judge cited security as a justification. They aren't going to hide a bomb in their eyebrows.


he cited "preventing misbehaviour". Thats sounds a lot like maintaining courtroom security if you ask me.

Eithe way, if the judge knows in advance that a close female relative of the accused who wears a niqab, and who is willing to undergo an identity and security check, would like to attend - what is the realistic risk of "misbehaviour", or in your case "intimidating" the witness? How can you rationally conclude that such a person is at risk of being more "misbehaving" or "intimidating" than anyone else? Is your concern that the witness is a racist who has an irrational fear of veiled women?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #109 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:28pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:43am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:08am:
But gee what a surprise that its yet again a man - dictating what women can and can't wear.


Yes, but FD stands up for tinted women's rights, G.

This woman has the right to have her clothes chosen for her. Superior culture, innit.



Well, who IS dictating that they SHOULD cover their faces?   They have not all separately and independently come to the conclusion, have they, strong and empowered and fiercely independent women though they all are, eh?
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #110 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 4:11pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:43am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:08am:
But gee what a surprise that its yet again a man - dictating what women can and can't wear.


Yes, but FD stands up for tinted women's rights, G.

This woman has the right to have her clothes chosen for her. Superior culture, innit.



Well, who IS dictating that they SHOULD cover their faces?   


Why, their backward tinted culture, of course. Exactly why I'd like to see the burqa banned.

You?
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #111 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:46pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:17pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
So in considering a ban on face coverings, they should exempt the most common face covering they are likely to encounter?


Yes.

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
I don't think either myself or the judge cited security as a justification. They aren't going to hide a bomb in their eyebrows.


he cited "preventing misbehaviour". Thats sounds a lot like maintaining courtroom security if you ask me.


So smuggling a bomb under your eyebrows is "misbehaving"?

Is it not more likely that the judge was referring to say, a scenario where people are talking in the public gallery, or worse still, threatening or abusing a witness or the jury from the public gallery, and he cannot see who it is?

Quote:
Eithe way, if the judge knows in advance that a close female relative of the accused who wears a niqab, and who is willing to undergo an identity and security check, would like to attend


They are not babysitters Gandalf.
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #112 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:51pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:17pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
So in considering a ban on face coverings, they should exempt the most common face covering they are likely to encounter?


Yes.

freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
I don't think either myself or the judge cited security as a justification. They aren't going to hide a bomb in their eyebrows.


he cited "preventing misbehaviour". Thats sounds a lot like maintaining courtroom security if you ask me.


So smuggling a bomb under your eyebrows is "misbehaving"?

Is it not more likely that the judge was referring to say, a scenario where people are talking in the public gallery, or worse still, threatening or abusing a witness or the jury from the public gallery, and he cannot see who it is?

Quote:
Eithe way, if the judge knows in advance that a close female relative of the accused who wears a niqab, and who is willing to undergo an identity and security check, would like to attend


They are not babysitters Gandalf.


That's right. Threatening with her eyebrows.

Hellou Hair and Beauty in Granville's a good place to start, FD. They have private rooms for covered ladies.

Ask for a group wives booking and get 10% off.
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #113 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 10:54pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 4:11pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:43am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:08am:
But gee what a surprise that its yet again a man - dictating what women can and can't wear.


Yes, but FD stands up for tinted women's rights, G.

This woman has the right to have her clothes chosen for her. Superior culture, innit.



Well, who IS dictating that they SHOULD cover their faces?   


Why, their backward tinted culture, of course. Exactly why I'd like to see the burqa banned.

You?

Well, why should we not ban their " backward tinted culture, of course" as you put it, shitegobber?   Why defend their 'backward tinted culture' if it is responsible for their hideous coercion??




Gandalf, this is a huge problem for Muslims - your most steadfast allies and loudest defenders are the hideously perverted shite-eaters and other bottom feeders you have attracted by your idiotic 'victim culture'. They are all latching onto you so it's the 'muslims, trannies, pedos, coprophiliacs, perverts and other misfits'.

Well done.

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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #114 - Sep 5th, 2018 at 11:07pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 10:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 4:11pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:43am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 11:08am:
But gee what a surprise that its yet again a man - dictating what women can and can't wear.


Yes, but FD stands up for tinted women's rights, G.

This woman has the right to have her clothes chosen for her. Superior culture, innit.


Well, who IS dictating that they SHOULD cover their faces?   


Why, their backward tinted culture, of course. Exactly why I'd like to see the burqa banned.

You?

Well, why should we not ban their " backward tinted culture, of course" as you put it, shitegobber?   Why defend their 'backward tinted culture' if it is responsible for their hideous coercion??




Gandalf, this is a huge problem for Muslims - your most steadfast allies and loudest defenders are the hideously perverted shite-eaters and other bottom feeders you have attracted by your idiotic 'victim culture'. They are all latching onto you so it's the 'muslims, trannies, pedos, coprophiliacs, perverts and other misfits'.

Well done.



Well, why stop at culture? Why not ban their inferior backward tintedness?

They could at least start by covering it up, no?
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #115 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 9:32am
 
...
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #116 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 10:46am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
Is it not more likely that the judge was referring to say, a scenario where people are talking in the public gallery, or worse still, threatening or abusing a witness or the jury from the public gallery, and he cannot see who it is?


Sorry FD, you'll have to explain to me why such behaviour is either more likely or harder to control by allowing veiled women into the gallery.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #117 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 11:11am
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 6th, 2018 at 9:32am:


That was the Muselman, Aussie. The white race was forced to rape and pillage the new world because the Mohammedans taxed their trade routes.

Same with the smallpox epidemics. They're Arab diseases. Ask FD.
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #118 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 12:31pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6th, 2018 at 10:46am:
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
Is it not more likely that the judge was referring to say, a scenario where people are talking in the public gallery, or worse still, threatening or abusing a witness or the jury from the public gallery, and he cannot see who it is?


Sorry FD, you'll have to explain to me why such behaviour is either more likely or harder to control by allowing veiled women into the gallery.


Because it might be harder to tell who is threatening a witness or juror if you are faced with a row of letterbox outfits.
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Re: The biggest threat to Freedom and democracy
Reply #119 - Sep 6th, 2018 at 12:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2018 at 12:31pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6th, 2018 at 10:46am:
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
Is it not more likely that the judge was referring to say, a scenario where people are talking in the public gallery, or worse still, threatening or abusing a witness or the jury from the public gallery, and he cannot see who it is?


Sorry FD, you'll have to explain to me why such behaviour is either more likely or harder to control by allowing veiled women into the gallery.


Because it might be harder to tell who is threatening a witness or juror if you are faced with a row of letterbox outfits.


Exactly how does one threaten a Witness or Member of a Jury if they are wearing a "letterbox outfit?"
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