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Correct version of Australia’s history (Read 8943 times)
Mr Hammer
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #150 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
I've listened to a few dream time stories. I don't recall mention of wells, farms, dams etc. History isn't something that's determined by what 'feels good'.


White words for white things, Hammer.  Indigenous Australians used black words for the same things.   Such a colonist mindset you have.  Completely unable to accept the reality that Colonists described.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

You are absolutely full of s h it Brian. A brainwashed leftist. I feel sorry for you.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #151 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:35pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
I've listened to a few dream time stories. I don't recall mention of wells, farms, dams etc. History isn't something that's determined by what 'feels good'.


White words for white things, Hammer.  Indigenous Australians used black words for the same things.   Such a colonist mindset you have.  Completely unable to accept the reality that Colonists described.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

You are absolutely full of s h it Brian. A brainwashed leftist. I feel sorry for you.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Hammer.  Unable to face reality?  Tsk, tsk, you need to put down your White supremacist bullshit and start reading what really was found by the Colonist.  Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #152 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
I've listened to a few dream time stories. I don't recall mention of wells, farms, dams etc. History isn't something that's determined by what 'feels good'.


White words for white things, Hammer.  Indigenous Australians used black words for the same things.   Such a colonist mindset you have.  Completely unable to accept the reality that Colonists described.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

You are absolutely full of s h it Brian. A brainwashed leftist. I feel sorry for you.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Hammer.  Unable to face reality?  Tsk, tsk, you need to put down your White supremacist bullshit and start reading what really was found by the Colonist.  Roll Eyes

I know loads about aboriginal stoneage technology Brian. A stone fish trap which traps fish when the tide runs out is hardly aquaculture Brian. A hole in  sandstone with a rock on top is hardly a well. People like you are trying to re-write history like the fascists you are. Lucky you didn't face combat because I don't think it's in you. It was with the colonists though. They were tough. You are your typical modern Australian who is killing our country.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #153 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:47pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


This is the wrong attitude to take, Brian. Rewriting history or re-interpreting it to make us feel better is not the way forward. We need to acknowledge facts and truths whilst recognising at the same time what we did wrong in the past.

I personally don't see any conflict between believing that the Indigenous Peoples were not a complex civilisation AND believing that we should also treat them with compassion and respect AND that they were no inferior.

You can accuse me of double-think if you wish.


I am not suggesting the rewriting or reinterpretation of anything, Auggie.  I am suggesting that the colonial view of all Indigenous Australians as being nomadic hunter-gatherers is incorrect - according to the colonists' own records.   Some were nomadic, some weren't.   Simples, really.   The records are there.  They have basically been ignored.   Surely we should take note of what was written?  Afterall they were the first hand observers, weren't they?

The point is that some Indigenous Australians were more sophisticated than many Australians have been taught.


They may be more sophisticated, Brian, but they don't have the characteristics that are required to be a 'complex' civilisation according to the anthropological view: i.e. writing; large urban settlements; division of labour; domination over the nature environment, etc.

That doesn't mean that complex means superior; it just means it was different. The indigenous civilisation was unique; that they were able to survive continously for tens of thousands of years is remarkable. No Western civilisation has ever lasted a fraction of that time.

I just don't think that we should try to denigrate the achievements of other civlisations at the expense of trying to hype up another civilisation.


According to anthropological views, the Ancient Europeans, the Ancient Chinese and the Aztecs and Inca were not equipped to become advanced civilisations.  As Anthropology was created to foster European imperialism and it's views on "race", I doubt it has much value in judging the value of cultures, Augie.   Indigenous Australians developed their culture and their technology to suit their circumstances.  Some of the Colonists described their culture and technology accurate, most ignored those writings in preference for the myths they chose to construct about them.    Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #154 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


This is the wrong attitude to take, Brian. Rewriting history or re-interpreting it to make us feel better is not the way forward. We need to acknowledge facts and truths whilst recognising at the same time what we did wrong in the past.

I personally don't see any conflict between believing that the Indigenous Peoples were not a complex civilisation AND believing that we should also treat them with compassion and respect AND that they were no inferior.

You can accuse me of double-think if you wish.


I am not suggesting the rewriting or reinterpretation of anything, Auggie.  I am suggesting that the colonial view of all Indigenous Australians as being nomadic hunter-gatherers is incorrect - according to the colonists' own records.   Some were nomadic, some weren't.   Simples, really.   The records are there.  They have basically been ignored.   Surely we should take note of what was written?  Afterall they were the first hand observers, weren't they?

The point is that some Indigenous Australians were more sophisticated than many Australians have been taught.


They may be more sophisticated, Brian, but they don't have the characteristics that are required to be a 'complex' civilisation according to the anthropological view: i.e. writing; large urban settlements; division of labour; domination over the nature environment, etc.

That doesn't mean that complex means superior; it just means it was different. The indigenous civilisation was unique; that they were able to survive continously for tens of thousands of years is remarkable. No Western civilisation has ever lasted a fraction of that time.

I just don't think that we should try to denigrate the achievements of other civlisations at the expense of trying to hype up another civilisation.


According to anthropological views, the Ancient Europeans, the Ancient Chinese and the Aztecs and Inca were not equipped to become advanced civilisations.  As Anthropology was created to foster European imperialism and it's views on "race", I doubt it has much value in judging the value of cultures, Augie.   Indigenous Australians developed their culture and their technology to suit their circumstances.  Some of the Colonists described their culture and technology accurate, most ignored those writings in preference for the myths they chose to construct about them.    Roll Eyes

The ancient Europeans learnt to smelter metal Brian. Bronze and then iron. That's what propelled them into the modern age. It never occurred to the aborigines and that is the reason they got left behind. Without metal land could not be cleared for widespread farming. Widespread ploughing could not be performed. That's why I know aborigines never did widespread farming. They didn't have metal. That's why I know they didn't do a lot of things. It was impossible without metal.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #155 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
I've listened to a few dream time stories. I don't recall mention of wells, farms, dams etc. History isn't something that's determined by what 'feels good'.


White words for white things, Hammer.  Indigenous Australians used black words for the same things.   Such a colonist mindset you have.  Completely unable to accept the reality that Colonists described.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

You are absolutely full of s h it Brian. A brainwashed leftist. I feel sorry for you.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Hammer.  Unable to face reality?  Tsk, tsk, you need to put down your White supremacist bullshit and start reading what really was found by the Colonist.  Roll Eyes

I know loads about aboriginal stoneage technology Brian. A stone fish trap which traps fish when the tide runs out is hardly aquaculture Brian. A hole in  sandstone with a rock on top is hardly a well. People like you are trying to re-write history like the fascists you are. Lucky you didn't face combat because I don't think it's in you. It was with the colonists though. They were tough. You are your typical modern Australian who is killing our country.


You appear still unwilling to face what the Colonists wrote about the Indigenous Australians, Hammer.

Aquaculture is about the raising of sea food for human consumption, whether it uses stone or plastic is immaterial.   A "well" consists of a means of finding water, it doesn't matter how it is constructed.

As to whether or not I would have survived combat is outside this discussion, Hammer.  Indeed that you feel the need to mention just goes to show desperate you are to try and distract me.   How about we actually stick to the discussion.  Roll Eyes
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Gnads
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #156 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:56pm
 
JollyGreenGiant wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:31pm:
Didn't the Bush Tucker Man reckon that the aboriginals could have lived quite well "off the land" and that running fast to catch a kangaroo for the BBQ made their legs skinny and their bums big? Rather like the African-Americans.


They certainly did live off the land ... I don't know about how well ... I spose they suffered in droughts as well .... but in reality they had no choice ... they were here a long time so they had to learn to thrive to survive.

Yep skinny legs ... but certainly didn't have an arse like an African ... in fact most had no arse much at all.

Do not confuse them with many of those today that live off softdrink & junk foods & suffer diabetes & renal disease.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #157 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
I've listened to a few dream time stories. I don't recall mention of wells, farms, dams etc. History isn't something that's determined by what 'feels good'.


White words for white things, Hammer.  Indigenous Australians used black words for the same things.   Such a colonist mindset you have.  Completely unable to accept the reality that Colonists described.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

You are absolutely full of s h it Brian. A brainwashed leftist. I feel sorry for you.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Hammer.  Unable to face reality?  Tsk, tsk, you need to put down your White supremacist bullshit and start reading what really was found by the Colonist.  Roll Eyes

I know loads about aboriginal stoneage technology Brian. A stone fish trap which traps fish when the tide runs out is hardly aquaculture Brian. A hole in  sandstone with a rock on top is hardly a well. People like you are trying to re-write history like the fascists you are. Lucky you didn't face combat because I don't think it's in you. It was with the colonists though. They were tough. You are your typical modern Australian who is killing our country.


You appear still unwilling to face what the Colonists wrote about the Indigenous Australians, Hammer.

Aquaculture is about the raising of sea food for human consumption, whether it uses stone or plastic is immaterial.   A "well" consists of a means of finding water, it doesn't matter how it is constructed.

As to whether or not I would have survived combat is outside this discussion, Hammer.  Indeed that you feel the need to mention just goes to show desperate you are to try and distract me.   How about we actually stick to the discussion.  Roll Eyes

People like you piss on Australian white history when the pioneers  died like flies carving out of a life for themselves. It was a fight for survival and pure nature. Don't bring some 21st century leftist morality into the realities of existence. It's just dividing our country up. People feel enough guilt as it is. We don't need it.
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Auggie
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #158 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:00pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


This is the wrong attitude to take, Brian. Rewriting history or re-interpreting it to make us feel better is not the way forward. We need to acknowledge facts and truths whilst recognising at the same time what we did wrong in the past.

I personally don't see any conflict between believing that the Indigenous Peoples were not a complex civilisation AND believing that we should also treat them with compassion and respect AND that they were no inferior.

You can accuse me of double-think if you wish.


I am not suggesting the rewriting or reinterpretation of anything, Auggie.  I am suggesting that the colonial view of all Indigenous Australians as being nomadic hunter-gatherers is incorrect - according to the colonists' own records.   Some were nomadic, some weren't.   Simples, really.   The records are there.  They have basically been ignored.   Surely we should take note of what was written?  Afterall they were the first hand observers, weren't they?

The point is that some Indigenous Australians were more sophisticated than many Australians have been taught.


They may be more sophisticated, Brian, but they don't have the characteristics that are required to be a 'complex' civilisation according to the anthropological view: i.e. writing; large urban settlements; division of labour; domination over the nature environment, etc.

That doesn't mean that complex means superior; it just means it was different. The indigenous civilisation was unique; that they were able to survive continously for tens of thousands of years is remarkable. No Western civilisation has ever lasted a fraction of that time.

I just don't think that we should try to denigrate the achievements of other civlisations at the expense of trying to hype up another civilisation.


According to anthropological views, the Ancient Europeans, the Ancient Chinese and the Aztecs and Inca were not equipped to become advanced civilisations.  As Anthropology was created to foster European imperialism and it's views on "race", I doubt it has much value in judging the value of cultures, Augie.   Indigenous Australians developed their culture and their technology to suit their circumstances.  Some of the Colonists described their culture and technology accurate, most ignored those writings in preference for the myths they chose to construct about them.    Roll Eyes


I think you're talking about modern 'race theory' which is pseudoscience and has no basis in fact or even science. What I'm talking about is the definition of a 'complex civilisation'. We are recognise that civilisations evolved different according to those circumstances. Some evolved within complexity; others to a varying degree; and others didn't.

Where I would differ from the bigots is that I don't believe one is superior to any other; they're just different. The mistake of our ancestors was to believe that any person was beneath dignity, which was and still is wrong.

The Indigenous Peoples have an amazing culture and history, and we should recognise it for what it was. No, they didn't build pyramids because they didn't have to; but neither did they have slavery on a massive scale.
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Gnads
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #159 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


Grin Not by Grahame Abrahams & Bruce Pascoe.

That's all it is a fairytale thought bubble.

Wondered how long it would be before you made an entrance ......

I forgot you used to teach in that Aboriginal University in a Western Australian City 5,000 years ago.  Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #160 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


This is the wrong attitude to take, Brian. Rewriting history or re-interpreting it to make us feel better is not the way forward. We need to acknowledge facts and truths whilst recognising at the same time what we did wrong in the past.

I personally don't see any conflict between believing that the Indigenous Peoples were not a complex civilisation AND believing that we should also treat them with compassion and respect AND that they were no inferior.

You can accuse me of double-think if you wish.


I am not suggesting the rewriting or reinterpretation of anything, Auggie.  I am suggesting that the colonial view of all Indigenous Australians as being nomadic hunter-gatherers is incorrect - according to the colonists' own records.   Some were nomadic, some weren't.   Simples, really.   The records are there.  They have basically been ignored.   Surely we should take note of what was written?  Afterall they were the first hand observers, weren't they?

The point is that some Indigenous Australians were more sophisticated than many Australians have been taught.


They may be more sophisticated, Brian, but they don't have the characteristics that are required to be a 'complex' civilisation according to the anthropological view: i.e. writing; large urban settlements; division of labour; domination over the nature environment, etc.

That doesn't mean that complex means superior; it just means it was different. The indigenous civilisation was unique; that they were able to survive continously for tens of thousands of years is remarkable. No Western civilisation has ever lasted a fraction of that time.

I just don't think that we should try to denigrate the achievements of other civlisations at the expense of trying to hype up another civilisation.


According to anthropological views, the Ancient Europeans, the Ancient Chinese and the Aztecs and Inca were not equipped to become advanced civilisations.  As Anthropology was created to foster European imperialism and it's views on "race", I doubt it has much value in judging the value of cultures, Augie.   Indigenous Australians developed their culture and their technology to suit their circumstances.  Some of the Colonists described their culture and technology accurate, most ignored those writings in preference for the myths they chose to construct about them.    Roll Eyes

The ancient Europeans learnt to smelter metal Brian. Bronze and then iron. That's what propelled them into the modern age. It never occurred to the aborigines and that is the reason they got left behind. Without metal land could not be cleared for widespread farming. Widespread ploughing could not be performed. That's why I know aborigines never did widespread farming. They didn't have metal. That's why I know they didn't do a lot of things. It was impossible without metal.


And yet the Aztecs and Incas only learnt to smelt Gold and Silver, Hammer.

All nationalities lacked writing until about 5000 years ago.

The point is, under the influence of external forces they developed.  Europeans learnt about smelting metals from the Middle-Eastern civilisations.  The Middle-East from the Indians and Chinese.  Them from the South-East Asians.   Indigenous Australians were cut off by oceans, so they like the Aztecs and the Inca never learnt about Bronze, Iron and Steel.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #161 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:02pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


Grin Not by Grahame Abrahams & Bruce Pascoe.

That's all it is a fairytale thought bubble.

Wondered how long it would be before you made an entrance ......

I forgot you used to teach in that Aboriginal University in a Western Australian City 5,000 years ago.  Roll Eyes


I wasn't alive 5,000 years ago.  Tsk, tsk, such a silly statement but hey, we have come to expect them from you.   Roll Eyes
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #162 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:03pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


This is the wrong attitude to take, Brian. Rewriting history or re-interpreting it to make us feel better is not the way forward. We need to acknowledge facts and truths whilst recognising at the same time what we did wrong in the past.

I personally don't see any conflict between believing that the Indigenous Peoples were not a complex civilisation AND believing that we should also treat them with compassion and respect AND that they were no inferior.

You can accuse me of double-think if you wish.


I am not suggesting the rewriting or reinterpretation of anything, Auggie.  I am suggesting that the colonial view of all Indigenous Australians as being nomadic hunter-gatherers is incorrect - according to the colonists' own records.   Some were nomadic, some weren't.   Simples, really.   The records are there.  They have basically been ignored.   Surely we should take note of what was written?  Afterall they were the first hand observers, weren't they?

The point is that some Indigenous Australians were more sophisticated than many Australians have been taught.


They may be more sophisticated, Brian, but they don't have the characteristics that are required to be a 'complex' civilisation according to the anthropological view: i.e. writing; large urban settlements; division of labour; domination over the nature environment, etc.

That doesn't mean that complex means superior; it just means it was different. The indigenous civilisation was unique; that they were able to survive continously for tens of thousands of years is remarkable. No Western civilisation has ever lasted a fraction of that time.

I just don't think that we should try to denigrate the achievements of other civlisations at the expense of trying to hype up another civilisation.


According to anthropological views, the Ancient Europeans, the Ancient Chinese and the Aztecs and Inca were not equipped to become advanced civilisations.  As Anthropology was created to foster European imperialism and it's views on "race", I doubt it has much value in judging the value of cultures, Augie.   Indigenous Australians developed their culture and their technology to suit their circumstances.  Some of the Colonists described their culture and technology accurate, most ignored those writings in preference for the myths they chose to construct about them.    Roll Eyes

The ancient Europeans learnt to smelter metal Brian. Bronze and then iron. That's what propelled them into the modern age. It never occurred to the aborigines and that is the reason they got left behind. Without metal land could not be cleared for widespread farming. Widespread ploughing could not be performed. That's why I know aborigines never did widespread farming. They didn't have metal. That's why I know they didn't do a lot of things. It was impossible without metal.


And yet the Aztecs and Incas only learnt to smelt Gold and Silver, Hammer.

All nationalities lacked writing until about 5000 years ago.

The point is, under the influence of external forces they developed.  Europeans learnt about smelting metals from the Middle-Eastern civilisations.  The Middle-East from the Indians and Chinese.  Them from the South-East Asians.   Indigenous Australians were cut off by oceans, so they like the Aztecs and the Inca never learnt about Bronze, Iron and Steel.


The Mesoamerican civilisations had a degree of complexity to them, and so did the Andean civilisations.
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I will no longer pursue a policy of appeasement. To all the bigots, homophobes, and Islamophobes at OzPol...

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Mr Hammer
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #163 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:06pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:55pm:
Australians have long held the idea that all Indigenous Australians were simple nomadic hunter-gatherers.  It enabled them to more easily dispossess them of the land and take it for themselves.  Appears that myth has been destroyed at last - Rethinking Indigenous Australia's agricultural past.


This is the wrong attitude to take, Brian. Rewriting history or re-interpreting it to make us feel better is not the way forward. We need to acknowledge facts and truths whilst recognising at the same time what we did wrong in the past.

I personally don't see any conflict between believing that the Indigenous Peoples were not a complex civilisation AND believing that we should also treat them with compassion and respect AND that they were no inferior.

You can accuse me of double-think if you wish.


I am not suggesting the rewriting or reinterpretation of anything, Auggie.  I am suggesting that the colonial view of all Indigenous Australians as being nomadic hunter-gatherers is incorrect - according to the colonists' own records.   Some were nomadic, some weren't.   Simples, really.   The records are there.  They have basically been ignored.   Surely we should take note of what was written?  Afterall they were the first hand observers, weren't they?

The point is that some Indigenous Australians were more sophisticated than many Australians have been taught.


They may be more sophisticated, Brian, but they don't have the characteristics that are required to be a 'complex' civilisation according to the anthropological view: i.e. writing; large urban settlements; division of labour; domination over the nature environment, etc.

That doesn't mean that complex means superior; it just means it was different. The indigenous civilisation was unique; that they were able to survive continously for tens of thousands of years is remarkable. No Western civilisation has ever lasted a fraction of that time.

I just don't think that we should try to denigrate the achievements of other civlisations at the expense of trying to hype up another civilisation.


According to anthropological views, the Ancient Europeans, the Ancient Chinese and the Aztecs and Inca were not equipped to become advanced civilisations.  As Anthropology was created to foster European imperialism and it's views on "race", I doubt it has much value in judging the value of cultures, Augie.   Indigenous Australians developed their culture and their technology to suit their circumstances.  Some of the Colonists described their culture and technology accurate, most ignored those writings in preference for the myths they chose to construct about them.    Roll Eyes

The ancient Europeans learnt to smelter metal Brian. Bronze and then iron. That's what propelled them into the modern age. It never occurred to the aborigines and that is the reason they got left behind. Without metal land could not be cleared for widespread farming. Widespread ploughing could not be performed. That's why I know aborigines never did widespread farming. They didn't have metal. That's why I know they didn't do a lot of things. It was impossible without metal.


And yet the Aztecs and Incas only learnt to smelt Gold and Silver, Hammer.

All nationalities lacked writing until about 5000 years ago.

The point is, under the influence of external forces they developed.  Europeans learnt about smelting metals from the Middle-Eastern civilisations.  The Middle-East from the Indians and Chinese.  Them from the South-East Asians.   Indigenous Australians were cut off by oceans, so they like the Aztecs and the Inca never learnt about Bronze, Iron and Steel.

wiki-The earliest current evidence of copper smelting, dating from between 5500 BC and 5000 BC, has been found in Pločnik and Belovode, Serbia.


Without copper you don't get bronze. Are you sure they got it from the arabs Brian?
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Re: Correct version of Australia’s history
Reply #164 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 7:07pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 10:11pm:
Gordon wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 10:03pm:
It's pretty funny how the lefties always try to anthropomorphise Abos.


Oh? I've never visited one of you people's Belview Hill homes without a dot painting hanging on a feature wall.

Homo knows what I mean. He hasn't been to a leafy white enclave since he was speared by a front-lawn Aborigine.


Was his name Neville & did he live with Ted?  Roll Eyes
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