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Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime (Read 631 times)
whiteknight
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Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Jul 9th, 2018 at 5:35pm
 
'Unsafe': Paramedics targeted for refusing overtime after long shift   Sad




8 July 2018
Sydney Morning Herald


Two NSW paramedics who refused to work overtime after completing a 12-hour shift are claiming they have been victimised after refusing to work unsafe hours.   Shocked

Paramedic Association state secretary Steve Pearce said two ambulance officers were told they were under investigation for misconduct after asserting their workplace right to refuse to take on unreasonable overtime.


"Like trying to get blood from a stone.": Steve Pearce, Paramedic Association state secretary


Mr Pearce said the officers were asked to transfer a hospital patient to a location out of the area just 10 minutes before the end of an overnight shift.  He said a fresh crew were due to start work 10  minutes later and the tired night crew said they would prefer to finish on time.

"When a paramedic has identified they are already tired and are sanctioned for that, it's not on," Mr Pearce said.

“NSW Ambulance is pushing the envelope trying to get more blood out of a stone and it’s just unsafe."


Mr Pearce said the industrial award for paramedics provided them with a right to refuse unreasonable overtime. He said most paramedics would continue working when fatigued to cover an emergency.

In the case of the two officers being investigated, Mr Pearce said the hospital patient's safety was not at risk when the ambulance officers refused to keep working to transfer them out of the area.


Two NSW paramedics face an internal investigation for refusing to do overtime after completing a 12-hour shift.


A spokesman for the NSW Ambulance Service said it would not comment on the case because it was before the Industrial Relations Commission. The spokesman would not answer broader questions about the Ambulance Service policy on overtime.

A spokeswoman for NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard also declined to comment other than to say "the safety of our paramedics is always our first priority. Their health and wellbeing is paramount."


NSW Minister for Health, Brad Hazzard.


Mr Pearce said the Paramedic Association had taken the case to the Industrial Relations Commission to argue the officers had been victimised. The Commission is due to start hearing the case on Wednesday.

"When they assertively state their case within the policy bounds and are disciplined for that, they feel like they are being bullied and victimised," he said.   Sad

"NSW Ambulance seems intent on breaking these people. They area already running over capacity, why would you try to discipline them for just trying to be safe?"

Mr Pearce said ambulance officers do not usually assert their rights to refuse unreasonable overtime because of their good will towards patients.

“It is not uncommon for paramedics to continue working for five to six hours in regional areas and that can mean a 16-, 17- to 18-hour shift, without breaks" he said. "Even though there are two people to a vehicle we maintain that is a ridiculous amount of time to work."   Sad

"The workload continues to go up and paramedics' morale continues to fall."
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Gnads
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #1 - Jul 9th, 2018 at 6:12pm
 
What the hell is wrong with the people running these workplaces?

You don't work overtime after a 12 hour shift.

Paramedics attend fatal accidents involving people driving tired ... & these dickheads expect them to work beyond 12 hours because they run understaffed & under resourced.

They should be charged for critical safety infringements even for asking these front line employees to work beyond 12 hrs. Angry
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #2 - Jul 9th, 2018 at 6:24pm
 
Been telling yez for ages now - ever since we brought in the hordes of grasping peasants and gave them opportunity to become the lords of this land - they want to treat everyone as the serfs their forebears in 'the old country' were treated.

I would have thought that in life-saving and driving situations, there would be no argument over not working beyond twelve hours at a time.  Tired people make mistakes and mistakes cost lives.

This sounds like some dick waving a badge and getting all indignant that the peasants wouldn't stack the sheaves after midnight... bet it's a sheila and a wog.
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Gnads
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #3 - Jul 9th, 2018 at 6:40pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jul 9th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Been telling yez for ages now - ever since we brought in the hordes of grasping peasants and gave them opportunity to become the lords of this land - they want to treat everyone as the serfs their forebears in 'the old country' were treated.

I would have thought that in life-saving and driving situations, there would be no argument over not working beyond twelve hours at a time.  Tired people make mistakes and mistakes cost lives.

This sounds like some dick waving a badge and getting all indignant that the peasants wouldn't stack the sheaves after midnight... bet it's a sheila and a wog.


Sounds very feasible Grapp.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Setanta
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #4 - Jul 9th, 2018 at 7:50pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 9th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
What the hell is wrong with the people running these workplaces?

You don't work overtime after a 12 hour shift.

Paramedics attend fatal accidents involving people driving tired ... & these dickheads expect them to work beyond 12 hours because they run understaffed & under resourced.

They should be charged for critical safety infringements even for asking these front line employees to work beyond 12 hrs. Angry


My youngest wanted to be a paramedic but has changed his mind after seeing how they are treated, he's going to stick with nursing for the time being. He's actually training people on the new computerised system they are rolling out ATM.
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nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #5 - Jul 9th, 2018 at 8:00pm
 
Living proof that 'Western' society is incompetent and unfit to rule this part of the world and lead it into the future.

Politics here should just pack its bags and F-orrrfff to the USA where it (grovels to anyway) belongs.

Thankfully the Eastern Europeans will make this part of the world a far better future to be had for all. Wink
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HERE, DRINK TO MY HEALTH & URINE)
 
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #6 - Jul 9th, 2018 at 8:17pm
 
Bus drivers and truck drivers are only allowed to work 12hrs then they MUST have at least 7hrs continuous rest.
I would hazard a guess that this particular case will be dismissed.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #7 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:26am
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Jul 9th, 2018 at 8:17pm:
Bus drivers and truck drivers are only allowed to work 12hrs then they MUST have at least 7hrs continuous rest.
I would hazard a guess that this particular case will be dismissed.


Only 7?

That's not enough.

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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #8 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 10:35am
 
IT IS JUST STUPID F'IN GOVERNMENT WASTE WRIT LARGE.
Once more we see our money pissed up against the wall, on brain dead stupidity.
Way too many ambulance trips are glorified TAXI rides.

Those of us who remember the hundreds and hundreds of millions wasted on wogs scamming compo and the medical resources squandered whilst they played up faked injuries like a Brazilian Soccer player.

Now I am not saying that people using ambos like cabs are all scammers, just that it is a stupid waste, and if people had to pay for ambulances, what they cost to provide, then I guarantee they would be getting a Taxi, or having a family member take them. Cases where medical supervision really is needed, they could easily have one paramedic, or nurse, in a more normal car.

The poor ambos already deal with way too much crap, both Cods and I saw the UK TV show where the same nutters keep calling them faking so they can have someone come visit them.
Nuts repel sane people, so they get lonely. That is why we have nut houses, so they can all live together, and annoy each other.
Maybe FD could do that here, just make one board where all the freaks can talk to each other, wouldn't that be nice and peaceful?
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #9 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:24pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:26am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jul 9th, 2018 at 8:17pm:
Bus drivers and truck drivers are only allowed to work 12hrs then they MUST have at least 7hrs continuous rest.
I would hazard a guess that this particular case will be dismissed.


Only 7?

That's not enough.



Certainly not... would you trust a driver of a huge truck who had, at most six hours 'rest' which includes eating and such as well as a short nap?  Driving down the expressway Sydney to Brisbane as we do a lot, there are big tears in the fencing every few kilometeres and often some serious tyre marks from brakes locking just before going over into the bush... all trucks...

Then there is the spectre of Truckie Psychosis wherein they begin to play games with the 'inferiors' in cars that are 'blocking' their way and their 'right' to exceed their speed limit etc ... that kind of crap has reached the point where I'd be happy to get an AK and stop and start burning one or two who do that to me...

The rules are not good enough.  Should be a mandatory twelve hour break every 24.... twelve hours total driving is more than enough for anyone, especially on these long, easy, soporific roads and new highways .....

Maybe six then a mandatory break for a total of twelve per day.

Thoughts, greg??

BTW - I was once targeted by management, as a Union delegate, for standing on the right to stop working after starting at 4 in the morning and still at it at 1 in the afternoon... nine hours and on the hottest day that year when a post office closed down and there was no air con.  I insisted on my lunch break... copped a week's suspension.... but I got it back by over-charging one hour a day overtime - the management was so poor they had no idea that some blokes were over-charging them on a daily basis.  when asked once at a meeting with management if I could run the company better, I simply shrugged and ignored that... I don't argue with idiots... but yes, I could have - given the team of my choice to run it.

Maybe workers need those AKs occasionally to resolve industrial relations issues....

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #10 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:36pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:26am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jul 9th, 2018 at 8:17pm:
Bus drivers and truck drivers are only allowed to work 12hrs then they MUST have at least 7hrs continuous rest.
I would hazard a guess that this particular case will be dismissed.


Only 7?

That's not enough.



Certainly not... would you trust a driver of a huge truck who had, at most six hours 'rest' which includes eating and such as well as a short nap?  Driving down the expressway Sydney to Brisbane as we do a lot, there are big tears in the fencing every few kilometeres and often some serious tyre marks from brakes locking just before going over into the bush... all trucks...

Then there is the spectre of Truckie Psychosis wherein they begin to play games with the 'inferiors' in cars that are 'blocking' their way and their 'right' to exceed their speed limit etc ... that kind of crap has reached the point where I'd be happy to get an AK and stop and start burning one or two who do that to me...

The rules are not good enough.  Should be a mandatory twelve hour break every 24.... twelve hours total driving is more than enough for anyone, especially on these long, easy, soporific roads and new highways .....

Maybe six then a mandatory break for a total of twelve per day.

Thoughts, greg??

BTW - I was once targeted by management, as a Union delegate, for standing on the right to stop working after starting at 4 in the morning and still at it at 1 in the afternoon... nine hours and on the hottest day that year when a post office closed down and there was no air con.  I insisted on my lunch break... copped a week's suspension.... but I got it back by over-charging one hour a day overtime - the management was so poor they had no idea that some blokes were over-charging them on a daily basis.  when asked once at a meeting with management if I could run the company better, I simply shrugged and ignored that... I don't argue with idiots... but yes, I could have - given the team of my choice to run it.

Maybe workers need those AKs occasionally to resolve industrial relations issues....



I would think that 10 hours between shifts would be an absolute minimum (for a driver).

Hairdressers and burger flippers get a 12 hour minimum break.

Maybe a straight fringe and well cooked all beef patties are more important that safe drivers on our roads.

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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #11 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:40pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:36pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:26am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Jul 9th, 2018 at 8:17pm:
Bus drivers and truck drivers are only allowed to work 12hrs then they MUST have at least 7hrs continuous rest.
I would hazard a guess that this particular case will be dismissed.


Only 7?

That's not enough.



Certainly not... would you trust a driver of a huge truck who had, at most six hours 'rest' which includes eating and such as well as a short nap?  Driving down the expressway Sydney to Brisbane as we do a lot, there are big tears in the fencing every few kilometeres and often some serious tyre marks from brakes locking just before going over into the bush... all trucks...

Then there is the spectre of Truckie Psychosis wherein they begin to play games with the 'inferiors' in cars that are 'blocking' their way and their 'right' to exceed their speed limit etc ... that kind of crap has reached the point where I'd be happy to get an AK and stop and start burning one or two who do that to me...

The rules are not good enough.  Should be a mandatory twelve hour break every 24.... twelve hours total driving is more than enough for anyone, especially on these long, easy, soporific roads and new highways .....

Maybe six then a mandatory break for a total of twelve per day.

Thoughts, greg??

BTW - I was once targeted by management, as a Union delegate, for standing on the right to stop working after starting at 4 in the morning and still at it at 1 in the afternoon... nine hours and on the hottest day that year when a post office closed down and there was no air con.  I insisted on my lunch break... copped a week's suspension.... but I got it back by over-charging one hour a day overtime - the management was so poor they had no idea that some blokes were over-charging them on a daily basis.  when asked once at a meeting with management if I could run the company better, I simply shrugged and ignored that... I don't argue with idiots... but yes, I could have - given the team of my choice to run it.

Maybe workers need those AKs occasionally to resolve industrial relations issues....



I would think that 10 hours between shifts would be an absolute minimum (for a driver).

Hairdressers and burger flippers get a 12 hour minimum break.

Maybe a straight fringe and well cooked all beef patties are more important that safe drivers on our roads.



7 hours with a mandatory 2 hour break - another 7 - followed by 8?  Fourteen hours straight is way too much driving for handling a 40 tonner....  maybe they need enforceable breaks every four hours.. hairdressers and burger flippers get a mandatory break every 4-5 hours... why not truck drivers and bus drivers?  They deal with people's lives - not hair and burgers (though the burgers may have some impact there, and never underestimate the Sweeney Todds of the hair trade .. oh.. darling.. they just murdered your hair!)...   Smiley ...
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #12 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:46pm
 
https://www.nhvr.gov.au/safety-accreditation-compliance/fatigue-management/work-...


"Time      Work      Rest
In any period of…      A driver must not work for more than a maximum  of…      And must have the rest of that period off work with at least a minimum rest break of…
5 ½ hours      5 ¼ hours work time      15 continuous minutes rest time
8 hours      7 ½ hours work time      30 minutes rest time in blocks of 15 continuous minutes
11 hours      10 hours work time      60 minutes rest time in blocks of 15 continuous minutes
24 hours      12 hours work time      7 continuous hours stationary rest time*
7 days      72 hours work time      24 continuous hours stationary rest time
14 days      144 hours work time      2 x night rest breaks# and 2 x night rest breaks taken on consecutive day".

Doesn't look like enough to me, as proven by the fence tears and skid marks ....

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-truck-deaths-increase-by-86-per-cent-in-...

"NSW truck deaths have increased by more than 86 per cent in 12 months, as police report increased heavy vehicle traffic connected to major construction projects.

In the 12 months to September, deaths have leapt from 29 to 54, by far the biggest increase since at least 2009 when the federal government first started releasing counts of fatal crashes involving heavy vehicles."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #13 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:49pm
 
Paramedics not only deal with driving and traffic, but then have to deal with often life-threatening situations while in full compos mente.  Being a shift zombie is no way to do it, and countless studies have shown that sleep deprivation, especially during the dead hours of the night, leads to a form of psychosis.

How dare anyone demand that a crew work after a twelve hour night shift?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Paramedics Targeted For Refusing Overtime
Reply #14 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:52pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 1:46pm:
https://www.nhvr.gov.au/safety-accreditation-compliance/fatigue-management/work-...


"Time      Work      Rest
In any period of…      A driver must not work for more than a maximum  of…      And must have the rest of that period off work with at least a minimum rest break of…
5 ½ hours      5 ¼ hours work time      15 continuous minutes rest time
8 hours      7 ½ hours work time      30 minutes rest time in blocks of 15 continuous minutes
11 hours      10 hours work time      60 minutes rest time in blocks of 15 continuous minutes
24 hours      12 hours work time      7 continuous hours stationary rest time*
7 days      72 hours work time      24 continuous hours stationary rest time
14 days      144 hours work time      2 x night rest breaks# and 2 x night rest breaks taken on consecutive day".

Doesn't look like enough to me, as proven by the fence tears and skid marks ....

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-truck-deaths-increase-by-86-per-cent-in-...

"NSW truck deaths have increased by more than 86 per cent in 12 months, as police report increased heavy vehicle traffic connected to major construction projects.

In the 12 months to September, deaths have leapt from 29 to 54, by far the biggest increase since at least 2009 when the federal government first started releasing counts of fatal crashes involving heavy vehicles."


It seems that this 7 hour break is for drivers with a sleeper cab.

So, in theory, they can just crawl straight into bed - no travelling to and from home.

Even if they fall asleep straight away, 6 and a half to 7 hours sleep isn't enough for a truck driver (I can manage on 3 or 4 every day, but I'm not handling heavy machinery).

For sleeper cabs, I'd like to see it raised to 9 hours.

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