Australian Politics Forum - Climate change and renewable energy...?

Ajax

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Climate change and renewable energy...?
Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:38am

I've always been in favour of renewable energy but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that renewable energy will have some effects on climate change.

Think about it.....???

Large banks of solar panels will affect the local area by changing the convection, conduction and radiation of the local area.

Large banks of wind mills may have the undesired affects of changing the wind patterns of the Earth.

Would like to see some studies on this.

Thoughts................?!?!?!

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lee

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #1 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 12:43pm

"The wind isn’t what it used to be. Scientists say surface wind speeds across the planet have fallen by as much as 25% since the 1970s. The eerie phenomenon – dubbed ‘stilling’ – is believed to be a consequence of global warming, and may impact everything from agriculture to the liveability of our cities. It has taken more than a decade for scientists to get a handle on stilling, a term coined by Australian National University ecohydrologist Michael Roderick in 2007."

https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/the-wind-is-slowing-down

The paper -

"Wind speed climatology and trends for Australia, 1975–2006: Capturing the stilling phenomenon and comparison with near‐surface reanalysis output"

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2008GL035627

https://theconversation.com/wind-power-affects-climate-cooling-and-warming-regio...

https://www.quora.com/Do-wind-farms-disrupt-wind-flow-patterns

Solar panels don't have enough clearance for grazing animals to get underneath the panels. Cattle would be too hefty I imagine also. That means increased use of chemicals to kill plants, as mowers wouldn't be viable.

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #2 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:35pm

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

"The wind isn’t what it used to be. Scientists say surface wind speeds across the planet have fallen by as much as 25% since the 1970s. The eerie phenomenon – dubbed ‘stilling’ – is believed to be a consequence of global warming, and may impact everything from agriculture to the liveability of our cities. It has taken more than a decade for scientists to get a handle on stilling, a term coined by Australian National University ecohydrologist Michael Roderick in 2007."

https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/the-wind-is-slowing-down

The paper -

"Wind speed climatology and trends for Australia, 1975–2006: Capturing the stilling phenomenon and comparison with near‐surface reanalysis output"

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2008GL035627

https://theconversation.com/wind-power-affects-climate-cooling-and-warming-regio...

https://www.quora.com/Do-wind-farms-disrupt-wind-flow-patterns

Solar panels don't have enough clearance for grazing animals to get underneath the panels. Cattle would be too hefty I imagine also. That means increased use of chemicals to kill plants, as mowers wouldn't be viable.

But even the low ones r using mainly sheep, even qld uni at grafton r using sheep around their panels.
do a google image search of sheep and solar panels
China they r also putting panels above the water and making fish farms.
I've also thought if they put solar panels in deserts near the ocean, the panels could desalinate the water and pump the water to the shaded area's underneath.

The live stock love panels because it gives them shade as well Wink

It is alarming that u point out Lee that global warming is slowing down wind though.
don't worry though the mini ice age will bring wind right back up Wink

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:50pm by DonDeeHippy »

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #3 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:42pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:38am:

I've always been in favour of renewable energy but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that renewable energy will have some effects on climate change.

Think about it.....???

Large banks of solar panels will affect the local area by changing the convection, conduction and radiation of the local area.

Large banks of wind mills may have the undesired affects of changing the wind patterns of the Earth.

Would like to see some studies on this.

Thoughts................?!?!?!

Will a solar panel soaking up the sun (which i would think would cool the ground) be worse than burning coal or oil ?

The wind passes through the blades of wind farms , i would say the air behind them would be more turbulent,
I couldn't imagine them changing the force of wind coming from the ocean.
Wink

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:54pm by DonDeeHippy »

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lee

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #4 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 3:46pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:35pm:

But even the low ones r using mainly sheep, even qld uni at grafton r using sheep around their panels.

So what height are they putting Commercial solar panels? Don't forget adding height adds costs. Wink

I notice you highlighted the stilling attributed to global warming but made no mention of it in your post. Was there a reason? You did notice that they didn't attribute this global warming to anthropogenic causes?

Now if the wind is not blowing as much and the turbulence from the wind generators will make them more inefficient; what do you believe the impact will be on the wind generated power.

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2018 at 3:53pm by lee »

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Bobby.

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #5 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 5:10pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:42pm:

Ajax wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:38am:

I've always been in favour of renewable energy but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that renewable energy will have some effects on climate change.

Think about it.....???

Large banks of solar panels will affect the local area by changing the convection, conduction and radiation of the local area.

Large banks of wind mills may have the undesired affects of changing the wind patterns of the Earth.

Would like to see some studies on this.

Thoughts................?!?!?!

Will a solar panel soaking up the sun (which i would think would cool the ground) be worse than burning coal or oil ?

The wind passes through the blades of wind farms , i would say the air behind them would be more turbulent,
I couldn't imagine them changing the force of wind coming from the ocean.
Wink

The panels would have a similar effect to growing a patch of trees.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16405 Gender:	Re: Climate change and renewable energy...? Reply #6 - Jul 7^th, 2018 at 5:51pm "Turbulence, a challenging problem for wind energy" https://doi.org/10.1016/j.physa.2004.02.040
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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #7 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:18am

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 3:46pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:35pm:

But even the low ones r using mainly sheep, even qld uni at grafton r using sheep around their panels.

So what height are they putting Commercial solar panels? Don't forget adding height adds costs. Wink

I notice you highlighted the stilling attributed to global warming but made no mention of it in your post. Was there a reason? You did notice that they didn't attribute this global warming to anthropogenic causes?

Now if the wind is not blowing as much and the turbulence from the wind generators will make them more inefficient; what do you believe the impact will be on the wind generated power.

Well a sheep isn't very tall lee.........,and most panels r on a angle as well, all the pics I've seen , the sheep don't seam to have a problem getting under them

please read again Lee I did mention it and as I said now we r having a ice age, the winds will pick back up

So u agree the earth is warming, just not the method ?
Wink

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #8 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:26am

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 5:51pm:

"Turbulence, a challenging problem for wind energy"

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.physa.2004.02.040

Basic problems arising in the growing use of the wind energy are discussed. We mainly focus on problems which are related to the turbulent character of the wind. The meaning of large and meso-scale atmospheric turbulence for the energy production is discussed. We show for the wind turbulence on small scales how statistics with anomalous probabilities arise, which can be set into the context of wind gusts. Furthermore, we discuss a new method to extract a stochastic process from given data which enables a new and more profound statistical description of the complexity of turbulence and turbulent wind fields.

I can see why u only put in the link... what is this saying......
R u putting in a link about a model for turbulence issue's ?
SO u trust models now ? Wink

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #9 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:28am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 5:10pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:42pm:

Ajax wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:38am:

I've always been in favour of renewable energy but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that renewable energy will have some effects on climate change.

Think about it.....???

Large banks of solar panels will affect the local area by changing the convection, conduction and radiation of the local area.

Large banks of wind mills may have the undesired affects of changing the wind patterns of the Earth.

Would like to see some studies on this.

Thoughts................?!?!?!

Will a solar panel soaking up the sun (which i would think would cool the ground) be worse than burning coal or oil ?

The wind passes through the blades of wind farms , i would say the air behind them would be more turbulent,
I couldn't imagine them changing the force of wind coming from the ocean.
Wink

The panels would have a similar effect to growing a patch of trees.

what is the wind like behind the skyscrapers at the gold coast........ Cheesy

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Bobby.

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #10 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:33am

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 5:10pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:42pm:

Ajax wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:38am:

I've always been in favour of renewable energy but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that renewable energy will have some effects on climate change.

Think about it.....???

Large banks of solar panels will affect the local area by changing the convection, conduction and radiation of the local area.

Large banks of wind mills may have the undesired affects of changing the wind patterns of the Earth.

Would like to see some studies on this.

Thoughts................?!?!?!

Will a solar panel soaking up the sun (which i would think would cool the ground) be worse than burning coal or oil ?

The wind passes through the blades of wind farms , i would say the air behind them would be more turbulent,
I couldn't imagine them changing the force of wind coming from the ocean.
Wink

The panels would have a similar effect to growing a patch of trees.

what is the wind like behind the skyscrapers at the gold coast........ Cheesy

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #11 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 9:51am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 5:10pm:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 2:42pm:

Ajax wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 11:38am:

I've always been in favour of renewable energy but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that renewable energy will have some effects on climate change.

Think about it.....???

Large banks of solar panels will affect the local area by changing the convection, conduction and radiation of the local area.

Large banks of wind mills may have the undesired affects of changing the wind patterns of the Earth.

Would like to see some studies on this.

Thoughts................?!?!?!

Will a solar panel soaking up the sun (which i would think would cool the ground) be worse than burning coal or oil ?

The wind passes through the blades of wind farms , i would say the air behind them would be more turbulent,
I couldn't imagine them changing the force of wind coming from the ocean.
Wink

The panels would have a similar effect to growing a patch of trees.

what is the wind like behind the skyscrapers at the gold coast........ Cheesy

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

the post was wondering what the effects of wind turbines would be on the environment, so a bunch of man made skyscrapers would be a good indicator.. wouldn't it ?

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10958 Australia Gender:	Re: Climate change and renewable energy...? Reply #12 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 10:20am DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 9:51am: the post was wondering what the effects of wind turbines would be on the environment, so a bunch of man made skyscrapers would be a good indicator.. wouldn't it ? Not the same thing...!!! https://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/28/the-wind-turbine-albedo-effect/
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DonDeeHippy

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #13 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 12:11pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 10:20am:

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 9:51am:

the post was wondering what the effects of wind turbines would be on the environment, so a bunch of man made skyscrapers would be a good indicator.. wouldn't it ?

Not the same thing...!!!

https://preview.ibb.co/n5kfbo/windturb.jpg

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/28/the-wind-turbine-albedo-effect/

that awesome, where it doesn't rain much u put up some wind turbines and clouds happen, that's great news

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lee

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Re: Climate change and renewable energy...?
Reply #14 - Jul 8^th, 2018 at 9:09pm

DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 8^th, 2018 at 8:18am:

Well a sheep isn't very tall lee.........,and most panels r on a angle as well, all the pics I've seen , the sheep don't seam to have a problem getting under them

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

Cattle would be too hefty I imagine also.

You mean those "sheep"? Grin

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