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Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much (Read 2252 times)
whiteknight
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Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:02am
 
Polling supports limiting CEO pay packets

New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.   Sad
July 1, 2018  News.com.au

Three quarters of Australians believe strict limits should be placed on executive salaries which have almost returned to pre-global financial crisis levels.

New polling from the left-leaning Australia Institute found 80 per cent of people believe the nation's chief executives are paid too much.

The survey asked 1557 people about executive salaries and presented proposals to limit pay packets.

The results showed 75 per cent of those polled supported a strict limit on how much a company can pay a CEO or executive.

Almost 80 per cent supported making companies pay tax on very large payments, like bonuses, to executive staff.

A similar number of respondents supported a new higher rate of income tax for individuals with very large pay packets.

Australia Institute deputy director Ebony Bennett said most people nominated $720,000 a year or less as a reasonable salary for a CEO.

"It is clear the reality of what CEOs are paid is not in line with community expectations," Ms Bennett said.   Sad

Former treasurer Wayne Swan said corporate rules needed to change to bring executive pay under control.


"If you look at what's going on, where basically the top end of town and those on the highest incomes are basically gorging themselves," Mr Swan told the ABC on Sunday. 

He said bad behaviour revealed by the financial royal commission had been driven by the reward and incentive systems in banks' pay structures
New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #1 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:11am
 
Breaking News


Water is wet!!!
Leftys believe they are morally superior!!!

Got any more blindingly obvious revelations for us?
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #2 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:14am
 
Quote:
New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.


What about shareholders? It's their money going into CEO pockets. Or did you think if the CEO got a pay cut the shareholders would vote to give the money to the poor downtrodden employees?

Money talks, BS walks.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #3 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:02am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:14am:
Quote:
New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.


What about shareholders? It's their money going into CEO pockets. Or did you think if the CEO got a pay cut the shareholders would vote to give the money to the poor downtrodden employees?

Money talks, BS walks.



You play the stock market poker machine, you take your losses with your wins.  There is NO guarantee that buying shares will give you endless profit or indeed any profit at all, and no reason for government intervention to help and support shareholders who gamble in this way.

Hence a good reason to do away with franked credits - since this is alleged to be tax money put in the hands of the ATO @30% on behalf of the shareholders, to safeguard it in the event of Gordon Gecko collapsing the company etc, please explain why a government should be safeguarding the investments of business venture shareholders - for business venture is what it is.

Let everyone pay their own tax - the company pays their tax on taxable income, the shareholder pays tax on his/her income - no more arguments and no more cheating.  This move would never have come into play if there were not advantages for shareholders in it, same as trust funds and their obvious rorts.

If shareholders are stupid enough to vote massive pay and bonuses for their employees - it's out of their pocket, besides which, since the vast majority of shares are held by an inner group in any company/corporation, the 'mum and pop' shareholders get no say anyway.

As someone said, it's all an inner circle and mates scratching each other's backs while the story is sold about how they benefit everyone, the nation and the economy.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #4 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am
 
Its not the government,
if a company wants the best CEO they have to compete with other businesses and the CEO's will go with the money. Its like that with any specialty job or anyone in the top of their profession.
Really its not anyone business how much a person get paid in a Company. Wink Wink
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #5 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:26am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am:
Its not the government,
if a company wants the best CEO they have to compete with other businesses and the CEO's will go with the money. Its like that with any specialty job or anyone in the top of their profession.
Really its not anyone business how much a person get paid in a Company. Wink Wink


I actually agree with that but when it is a government dept or a company that is getting handouts like a bank then they should be more responsible with that money.

Spot
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #6 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 12:12pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am:
Its not the government,
if a company wants the best CEO they have to compete with other businesses and the CEO's will go with the money. Its like that with any specialty job or anyone in the top of their profession.
Really its not anyone business how much a person get paid in a Company. Wink Wink


Once upon a time the chief clerk worked his/her way up through the company and thus knew what the company was all about, rather than having all these high-flown theories about how it should fit into their world.

How come if these CEOs are so good, they are forever changing companies, with the usual result being that the company left goes downhill?

This is like Howard leaving a future estimate called a surplus, after selling off the family jewels, and then his mates complaining how 'the other lot' wasted it when the revenue failed to come in.

The qualification for getting a new management job is to have failed at the one before, and most of these CEO etc clowns couldn't run a corner shop without the government propping up businesses at every turn, including negotiating down to zero their tax liability.

Business have far too much say in how they are handled by government here - they are a minority with a loud voice of endless whining and self-justification.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #7 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 12:24pm
 
I agree with yegraps.
Come the revolution bruvva!!!
(I really do agree with graps, but that doesn't mean I cannot see the funny side of agreeing with Scottish shop steward types)
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #8 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 12:56pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am:
Its not the government,
if a company wants the best CEO they have to compete with other businesses and the CEO's will go with the money. Its like that with any specialty job or anyone in the top of their profession.
Really its not anyone business how much a person get paid in a Company. Wink Wink

No?,... so why the need to declare salaries for the top brass in the name of alleged social license?
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #9 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 12:59pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:02am:
freediver wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:14am:
Quote:
New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.


What about shareholders? It's their money going into CEO pockets. Or did you think if the CEO got a pay cut the shareholders would vote to give the money to the poor downtrodden employees?

Money talks, BS walks.



You play the stock market poker machine, you take your losses with your wins.  There is NO guarantee that buying shares will give you endless profit or indeed any profit at all, and no reason for government intervention to help and support shareholders who gamble in this way.

Hence a good reason to do away with franked credits - since this is alleged to be tax money put in the hands of the ATO @30% on behalf of the shareholders, to safeguard it in the event of Gordon Gecko collapsing the company etc, please explain why a government should be safeguarding the investments of business venture shareholders - for business venture is what it is.

Let everyone pay their own tax - the company pays their tax on taxable income, the shareholder pays tax on his/her income - no more arguments and no more cheating.  This move would never have come into play if there were not advantages for shareholders in it, same as trust funds and their obvious rorts.

If shareholders are stupid enough to vote massive pay and bonuses for their employees - it's out of their pocket, besides which, since the vast majority of shares are held by an inner group in any company/corporation, the 'mum and pop' shareholders get no say anyway.

As someone said, it's all an inner circle and mates scratching each other's backs while the story is sold about how they benefit everyone, the nation and the economy.

In other words: all systems end up as oligarchy!

Shocked Shocked


    ****   Does man corrupt system or does system corrupt man???  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #10 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 1:01pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:11am:
Breaking News


Water is wet!!!
Leftys believe they are morally superior!!!

Got any more blindingly obvious revelations for us?

I thought rightie thought he was morally superior  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


["...oh, there you are  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink  Wink"]
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #11 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 5:54pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am:
Its not the government,
if a company wants the best CEO they have to compete with other businesses and the CEO's will go with the money. Its like that with any specialty job or anyone in the top of their profession.
Really its not anyone business how much a person get paid in a Company. Wink Wink


BS .... it's every shareholders right to know & every employee & street Joe who can be affected by what that CEO & the executive do.

The current trend makes it look like a  select "boys club" ... where they get the boot from one company & like a bad penny turn up tomorrow in another.

Their productivity bonuses are always for downsizing staff & little else.

Western Govts & industry have learned nothing from the GFC and things are back to normal with these over paid under performing job slashing greedy cretins.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #12 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 5:56pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 12:12pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am:
Its not the government,
if a company wants the best CEO they have to compete with other businesses and the CEO's will go with the money. Its like that with any specialty job or anyone in the top of their profession.
Really its not anyone business how much a person get paid in a Company. Wink Wink


Once upon a time the chief clerk worked his/her way up through the company and thus knew what the company was all about, rather than having all these high-flown theories about how it should fit into their world.

How come if these CEOs are so good, they are forever changing companies, with the usual result being that the company left goes downhill?

This is like Howard leaving a future estimate called a surplus, after selling off the family jewels, and then his mates complaining how 'the other lot' wasted it when the revenue failed to come in.

The qualification for getting a new management job is to have failed at the one before, and most of these CEO etc clowns couldn't run a corner shop without the government propping up businesses at every turn, including negotiating down to zero their tax liability.

Business have far too much say in how they are handled by government here - they are a minority with a loud voice of endless whining and self-justification.


Exactly Grappler  Smiley
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #13 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 9:15pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:02am:
freediver wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:14am:
Quote:
New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.


What about shareholders? It's their money going into CEO pockets. Or did you think if the CEO got a pay cut the shareholders would vote to give the money to the poor downtrodden employees?

Money talks, BS walks.



You play the stock market poker machine, you take your losses with your wins.  There is NO guarantee that buying shares will give you endless profit or indeed any profit at all, and no reason for government intervention to help and support shareholders who gamble in this way.

Hence a good reason to do away with franked credits - since this is alleged to be tax money put in the hands of the ATO @30% on behalf of the shareholders, to safeguard it in the event of Gordon Gecko collapsing the company etc, please explain why a government should be safeguarding the investments of business venture shareholders - for business venture is what it is.

Let everyone pay their own tax - the company pays their tax on taxable income, the shareholder pays tax on his/her income - no more arguments and no more cheating.  This move would never have come into play if there were not advantages for shareholders in it, same as trust funds and their obvious rorts.

If shareholders are stupid enough to vote massive pay and bonuses for their employees - it's out of their pocket, besides which, since the vast majority of shares are held by an inner group in any company/corporation, the 'mum and pop' shareholders get no say anyway.

As someone said, it's all an inner circle and mates scratching each other's backs while the story is sold about how they benefit everyone, the nation and the economy.


We have franking so the government doesn't tax company profits at 30% (on top of all the other company taxes) and then take another 30% to 50% when the profits get passed on to the people who own the company. A company profit and an income of the company owner are basically the same thing.

An added benefit of franking is that Australians have an incentive to invest in local companies, and we tax foreign company owners at the maximum rate.

Quote:
Once upon a time the chief clerk worked his/her way up through the company and thus knew what the company was all about, rather than having all these high-flown theories about how it should fit into their world.

How come if these CEOs are so good, they are forever changing companies, with the usual result being that the company left goes downhill?


You do realise that it is the people who own the companies who decide what they CEOs get paid, right? It is coming out of their own pocket.

Money talks, BS walks.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #14 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:19pm
 
Companies and individuals are separate legal entities - each should pay his own tax.  Easy .....

To do otherwise is using franking to avoid paying company tax while benefiting shareholders.  It the idea of encouraging local investment worked so well, why is Australian business not prospering and developing?

It seems that not only Australian companies can offer franking..... sounds like a furphy to me.... when an offshore company calculates its tax burden here, it often pays zero tax - and there is zero obligation to pay tax on franked dividends.

In that case there are two beneficiaries for nothing, and tax is not paid on money earned.

https://www.asx.com.au/education/investor-update-newsletter/201805-how-franking-...

" If you are on a marginal tax rate greater than 30 per cent, you pay the difference between tax at your marginal rate minus a tax credit at 30 per cent (company rate).
    If you are on a marginal tax rate equal to 30 per cent, you pay no tax on the dividend.
    If you are on a marginal tax rate under 30 per cent, you are reimbursed the tax credit that has not been used."

As this reads, ONLY those on a lower than 30% tax rate receive a dividend - however, it's not that simple - if someone is a PAYE with shares and gets a franked dividend - only that part of income tax which attaches to the extra income from shares cops tax... leaving a dividend.

To get a full franking return cheque, an investor would need to have an income lower than the tax free threshold.  Otherwise a full refund is not applicable, but some may be.

It seems there is too much 'confusion' and fudging of books by many, including trust operators etc, and even SFRs and business people who may (or may not) 'draw' less than the tax free threshold, thus freeing income from dividends from some tax.

Try again - to gain a full refund of that 30% franking, your TOTAL income would need to be below the tax free threshold.... or you are cheating.

Let's try an example:-  Coffee Shoppe Owner Joe Bloggzovic takes $16k pa from his business (laughable - how does he even run his Maserati?), and has franking dividends of $5000, and dividends of $10000.  Therefore Joe's total income is earned income + dividend + dividend imputation = $31000, and he must pay income tax on $12900 @ 19% = $2451 - that tax is taken from his $5000 imputation, leaving a refund of $2549, for a total income of $28451.

It seems, from reports, that this is not the way it is working... but that Joe may be getting full value on dividends and imputation without paying any tax.... if so, blame the ATO under its political masters.

When family etc trusts enter into it, the situation becomes even worse, and that is why such things need to be resolved so that trusts pay tax.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #15 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:23pm
 
Anyway - no CEO is worth millions.... that's just like politician pay and perks - arranged by them to suit them.  They are mostly appointees of their mates etc anyway, and since those mates are the very few principal shareholders in any company - they basically get to make the rules to suit themselves.

A 'board' made up of those who hold the vast majority of shares could employ one of their pet rats as CEO.... and split the difference between cage, rat food and water and CEO remuneration between themselves.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #16 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:28pm
 
Quote:
Anyway - no CEO is worth millions.... that's just like politician pay and perks - arranged by them to suit them.


It is far higher than what politicians get paid. The PM is on just over half a mil. There would be plenty in the private sector on more than that.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Quote:
Companies and individuals are separate legal entities - each should pay his own tax.  Easy .....


That's like saying the government should tax 30% of your income as it comes out of the company's bank account and then tax another 30% as it goes into yours.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #17 - Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Quote:
Anyway - no CEO is worth millions.... that's just like politician pay and perks - arranged by them to suit them.


It is far higher than what politicians get paid. The PM is on just over half a mil. There would be plenty in the private sector on more than that.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Quote:
Companies and individuals are separate legal entities - each should pay his own tax.  Easy .....


That's like saying the government should tax 30% of your income as it comes out of the company's bank account and then tax another 30% as it goes into yours.


From the number of company crashes and just staying afloat,there are plenty of monkeys out there in CEOland...

No - it is taxed as income for the company, which it is - what they do with it has no bearing on heir tax liability, any more than you spending your wages at the shop - where the shopkeeper also has to pay income tax. Similarly if that company spends it on a piece of equipment instead, the company that equipment is bought from pays tax on its net income.

Therefore when you receive it as a shareholder, you must pay tax on it.  You don't get a taxback for spending your money at the shop..... you don't get a taxback for giving your wife and kids money.....

The original reasoning behind imputation was false.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #18 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 12:31pm
 
Quote:
No - it is taxed as income for the company, which it is - what they do with it has no bearing on heir tax liability, any more than you spending your wages at the shop - where the shopkeeper also has to pay income tax.


Again you are very confused. If I buy something I need for my job, it usually comes tax free. If you are on a 30% marginal rate, that means you end up getting it 30% cheaper than if it was for personal use. Businesses do not pay GST. Only the end (retail) consumer does.

This is a pretty much universal principle. Your ignorance of it is not a rational argument against it.

Otherwise you would be in the absurd situation where if ten different companies existed along the supply chain, the price would go up 10% for GST as the price went through each company. But if one company bought them all out, all that tax revenue would suddenly disappear - and our entire economy would be restructured around tax minimisation rather than actually making thing efficiently
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #19 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 12:39pm
 
There is a world of difference between paying for equipment etc and paying your shareholders.  Perhaps not a good analogy to work with...

The point remains that a company is one legal entity, and has tax obligations - it does NOT have to pay tax on franked dividends (read somewhere this was optional??? - WTFalc?), and then the shareholder gets a tax refund for being paid more.

Doesn't make a lot of sense.  If the ATO was properly handling this, there would be no arguments, but as it stands, it sounds like shareholders are automatically getting the lot as a free gift, no matter what fine sounding words and reasoning it is wrapped up in.

The fact is you must pay tax on income earned, and the company and the shareholder each has a separate obligation to do so.

As for encouraging investment in local business - it says a locally based INVESTOR - not a business.  Like many other such initiatives, if it is working so well why are businesses doing it so hard they have to lay off staff and cut penalty rates and employ casuals for a few hours a week?
Far easier to just scrap the whole thing and everyone pays their own tax... no more arguments.

No honest investor paying income tax as due on income derived will lose anything.... IF this entire scheme is above board, that is.  Shocked
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #20 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 12:40pm
 
Quote:
The point remains that a company is one legal entity, and has tax obligations - it does NOT have to pay tax on franked dividends (read somewhere this was optional??? - WTFalc?)


Franked means that company tax has been paid.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #21 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Quote:
The point remains that a company is one legal entity, and has tax obligations - it does NOT have to pay tax on franked dividends (read somewhere this was optional??? - WTFalc?)


Franked means that company tax has been paid.


No - tax has been deposited with the ATO to cover the tax of dividend recipients. 

So you are now saying that a company can get a kick off tax and the shareholder gets a dollop of cash as well?

"The tax paid is received by shareholders as an imputation credit. When the dividend received includes the full imputation credit it is called a fully franked dividend."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/dividends-explained-20130408-2hfz...

To this is indeed the case, whereas a PAYE taxpayer has income tax deducted included in gross income for assessment.

That is what makes dividend imputation a rort... people are not paying tax on income earned, and neither are companies paying tax on franked dividends.

Easily fixed.  Franked dividend 30% MUST be included in income for someone for genuine taxation purposes.  Either the company pays that tax on franked dividends as part of its company tax assessment which has nothing to do with lodging income tax for a shareholder - since franked dividends are tax paid on behalf of shareholders - or the shareholder pays it by including that 30% in gross income for assessment.

You cannot have it both ways.

Dividend imputation is NOT tax paid by the company - it is separate from company tax entirely.

" The shareholder on his or her 2014 tax return must show the $7,000 fully franked dividend received plus the $3000 imputation credit received."

Why then is there a problem?  Someone is getting away with something or it would not be tax effective to receive dividend imputation.

Absolutely clarifying the rules and ensuring correct handling of income for assessment purposes will resolve this.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #22 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:39pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:11am:
Breaking News


Water is wet!!!
Leftys believe they are morally superior!!!

Got any more blindingly obvious revelations for us?


I don't believe that lefties are morally superior, it is just that Liberals are morally deficient.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #23 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:41pm
 
I have no problem with dividend imputation as long as someone is paying the full tax on that income earned, and as I said several times, the shareholder will not lose anything by ensuring that companies do not double dip by claiming imputation as a deduction when it is tax withheld for the shareholder.

Again - the simple fact that it is labeled 'tax-effective' means someone is getting something for nothing.

Either tighten the rules absolutely or abolish it immediately as far too much trouble.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #24 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 7:14am:
Quote:
New research from the left-leaning Australia Institute has shown 80 per cent of people believe chief executives are paid too much.


What about shareholders? It's their money going into CEO pockets. Or did you think if the CEO got a pay cut the shareholders would vote to give the money to the poor downtrodden employees?

Money talks, BS walks.


You don't think that many shareholders would be included in 80% ?

I know I am a shareholder and I can say for a fact that many chief executives are paid way too much. It isn't opinion it is fact.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #25 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 8:36pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:37pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
Quote:
The point remains that a company is one legal entity, and has tax obligations - it does NOT have to pay tax on franked dividends (read somewhere this was optional??? - WTFalc?)


Franked means that company tax has been paid.


No - tax has been deposited with the ATO to cover the tax of dividend recipients. 

So you are now saying that a company can get a kick off tax and the shareholder gets a dollop of cash as well?

"The tax paid is received by shareholders as an imputation credit. When the dividend received includes the full imputation credit it is called a fully franked dividend."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/dividends-explained-20130408-2hfz...

To this is indeed the case, whereas a PAYE taxpayer has income tax deducted included in gross income for assessment.

That is what makes dividend imputation a rort... people are not paying tax on income earned, and neither are companies paying tax on franked dividends.

Easily fixed.  Franked dividend 30% MUST be included in income for someone for genuine taxation purposes.  Either the company pays that tax on franked dividends as part of its company tax assessment which has nothing to do with lodging income tax for a shareholder - since franked dividends are tax paid on behalf of shareholders - or the shareholder pays it by including that 30% in gross income for assessment.

You cannot have it both ways.

Dividend imputation is NOT tax paid by the company - it is separate from company tax entirely.

" The shareholder on his or her 2014 tax return must show the $7,000 fully franked dividend received plus the $3000 imputation credit received."

Why then is there a problem?  Someone is getting away with something or it would not be tax effective to receive dividend imputation.

Absolutely clarifying the rules and ensuring correct handling of income for assessment purposes will resolve this.


So giving money to the ATO is completely different to paying taxes?

Quote:
You don't think that many shareholders would be included in 80% ?


Your guess is as good as mine.

Quote:
I know I am a shareholder and I can say for a fact that many chief executives are paid way too much. It isn't opinion it is fact.


So turn up to the AGM and raise the issue. The CEO is your employee. You get to decide what they get paid (so long as the other owners of the company agree with you).

But have a good think about what is really in your best interest first.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #26 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 8:42pm
 
Many businesses in South America are 'owned' by the Employees (aka 'workers') who employ a CEO/Manager to run the company by the 'Admin' level, while they keep themselves employed as 'workers'.

It's a growing common thing in south America.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #27 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 9:16pm
 


I have a suggestion.

Limit the amount of tax deductibility for individuals.

Companies can still pay what they like but they will only get a set amount of deduction for that salary.
And of course all the other perks will have to be totalled up.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #28 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 10:08pm
 
What if your job has $1 million dollars of legitimate expenses but your gross income is only $1.1 million? You would be out of a job by virtue of a stupid tax policy. Either that, or your tax bill would mean you make a net loss.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #29 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 11:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 10:08pm:
What if your job has $1 million dollars of legitimate expenses but your gross income is only $1.1 million? You would be out of a job by virtue of a stupid tax policy. Either that, or your tax bill would mean you make a net loss.


No - your profit would be $0.1m - and your tax would be levied on that income earned.  No way it would be negative.

What sort of business runs at a one in eleven profit margin?  Better still - what sort of job does that?

a. a Kerry Packer job....
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #30 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 11:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 10:08pm:
What if your job has $1 million dollars of legitimate expenses but your gross income is only $1.1 million? You would be out of a job by virtue of a stupid tax policy. Either that, or your tax bill would mean you make a net loss.


No - your net profit = income earned would be $0.1M, and your tax liability would be based on that income.

What kind of company runs at a one in eleven profit these days?  Better still - what kind of JOB?

a. a Kerry Packer job....  Grin  Grin  Grin
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #31 - Jul 4th, 2018 at 1:14am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 10:08pm:
What if your job has $1 million dollars of legitimate expenses but your gross income is only $1.1 million? You would be out of a job by virtue of a stupid tax policy. Either that, or your tax bill would mean you make a net loss.


No... your taxable income would be $0.1m, and your tax liability would be on that amount.

What kind of job gives a one in eleven return?

a. a Kerry Packer job!!

(yes... lock in a) Eddy... a Kerry Packer job....

No 'job' returns one in eleven - if you are in the business of operating a freediving business.... your expenses may well be high... boat, crew, safety equipment etc ...but your net profit remains what is left over after costs/expenses etc.

AND you get to eat the fish you catch!!

I'm looking at a whale watching venture.... the costs are HIGH.... but I like the lifestyle.

This is my fourth (I think) attempt to answer this.. what the hell is wrong with the site?
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #32 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 7:36pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 11:42pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 10:08pm:
What if your job has $1 million dollars of legitimate expenses but your gross income is only $1.1 million? You would be out of a job by virtue of a stupid tax policy. Either that, or your tax bill would mean you make a net loss.


No - your net profit = income earned would be $0.1M, and your tax liability would be based on that income.

What kind of company runs at a one in eleven profit these days?  Better still - what kind of JOB?

a. a Kerry Packer job....  Grin  Grin  Grin


It's none of your business how they generate their profit, but your idea of limiting tax deductibility would destroy such a business.

Perhaps you should think your ideas through before posting them?
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #33 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 7:59pm
 
your idea of limiting tax deductibility would destroy such a business.

Wait on!

I was only talking about tax deductibility for the salary of the high flying executives. (if you were referring to me)

Not other deductibles!!!

Crikey I am not a Drongo like Bam of Leftwanker
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #34 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 8:11pm
 
miketrees wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 7:59pm:
your idea of limiting tax deductibility would destroy such a business.

Wait on!

I was only talking about tax deductibility for the salary of the high flying executives. (if you were referring to me)

Not other deductibles!!!

Crikey I am not a Drongo like Bam of Leftwanker


So you propose different tax rules for someone you classify as a company executive?

All this would achieve is they would call themselves secretaries instead.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #35 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 8:45pm
 
miketrees wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 9:16pm:
I have a suggestion.

Limit the amount of tax deductibility for individuals.

Companies can still pay what they like but they will only get a set amount of deduction for that salary.
And of course all the other perks will have to be totalled up.


No limit the tax write offs for big business .... not PAYE individuals.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #36 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 9:45pm
 
Freesplash,,, you are not keeping up with my cunning plan!
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #37 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 10:08pm
 
miketrees wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
Freesplash,,, you are not keeping up with my cunning plan!


Yes it is changing too rapidly.

Quote:
No limit the tax write offs for big business .... not PAYE individuals.


In other words, put thousands of people out of work by sending companies bankrupt by charging them tax even when they are making a loss.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #38 - Jul 6th, 2018 at 7:00am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
miketrees wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
Freesplash,,, you are not keeping up with my cunning plan!


Yes it is changing too rapidly.

Quote:
No limit the tax write offs for big business .... not PAYE individuals.


In other words, put thousands of people out of work by sending companies bankrupt by charging them tax even when they are making a loss.


Well FD ... if they are making a loss what does that say about their business model?

And are you suggesting that the taxpayer/country has to prop up business that continually makes a loss( or so the books show) because the tax law gives them so many variables to show write offs and they keep operating just to keep people in a job?

They aren't making a loss .... they wouldn't be here if they were ... their shareholders would be getting dividends ........... yet they pay no tax.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-07/corporate-tax-data-released-by-ato/9236878

Quote:
There were
732 companies who paid no tax
in Australia in the 2015-16 financial year. Collectively, their income was more than $500 billion.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #39 - Jul 6th, 2018 at 12:12pm
 
Most businesses make the occasional loss. You would send them bankrupt by hitting them with a big tax bill on top of that. You would not get the tax revenue out of them, because they would be bankrupt. The net effect would be to lose tax revenue they would have paid in the following years, and putting thousands of people out of work.

No business makes a continuous loss. The ones that do go bankrupt. This idea of continuously hiding profits behind fake losses is a myth promoted by jelous people who do not understand business taxation. Eventually they make a profit, and they pay tax on it, before the business owners get their hands on it. The only businesses who can get around this are the small ones who write off a big screen TV as a business expense. Large businesses do not encourage fraud, because that is a far bigger risk to them than paying taxes.
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #40 - Jul 6th, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
Most businesses make the occasional loss. You would send them bankrupt by hitting them with a big tax bill on top of that. You would not get the tax revenue out of them, because they would be bankrupt. The net effect would be to lose tax revenue they would have paid in the following years, and putting thousands of people out of work.

No business makes a continuous loss. The ones that do go bankrupt. This idea of continuously hiding profits behind fake losses is a myth promoted by jelous people who do not understand business taxation. Eventually they make a profit, and they pay tax on it, before the business owners get their hands on it. The only businesses who can get around this are the small ones who write off a big screen TV as a business expense. Large businesses do not encourage fraud, because that is a far bigger risk to them than paying taxes.


Freediver if you believe that there's not much more I can say.

Many of these big multinational businesses have not paid tax in Australia for years .....

and to help them out the govt is going to further offset their lack of input into the countries taxation revenue by giving them all collectively $65.4 billion dollars over 10 yrs ... with them paying only 25c in the dollar ....

whilst ordinary workers will wait 6 years for their tax rate to go from 37c to 32.5c.

And they don't get any offsets to put them in a situation where they ever pay "no" tax.

Unless they become unemployed.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #41 - Jul 6th, 2018 at 9:12pm
 
Quote:
Many of these big multinational businesses have not paid tax in Australia for years .....


And your idea will solve this how?
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Re: Chief Executives Are Paid Too Much
Reply #42 - Jul 6th, 2018 at 9:13pm
 


I cant believe you are not all congratulating me on coming up with my cunning plan.

Companies hate paying for stuff that is not tax deductible.

Those salaries would be trimmed back quick smart
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