Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair (Read 2738 times)
whiteknight
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7593
melbourne
Gender: male
The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:41am
 
Penalty rate cuts not fair: O'Connor   Sad

Saturday, 30 June 2018
The West Australian
Labor frontbencher Brendan O'Connor says penalty rate cuts will be a burden for workers.

Penalty rate cuts due to hit workers from Sunday will be a burden for those that work in pharmacies, hospitality and retail, with cost-of-living pressures rising, the Labor's workplace relations spokesman says.

"Last week...Malcolm Turnbull introduces legislation to give himself a $7000 tax cut. A $7000 tax cut for millionaires; wage cuts for low-paid, hardworking Australians isn't fair," Brendan O'Connor told reporters in Melbourne on Saturday.   Sad

"We have the lowest wage rises in 25 years. It really is unfair that we see cuts to real wages.

"Millions of workers in this country are struggling to make ends meet ... at a time when cost-of-living pressures are rising, pressures to make ends meet are acute, people are having difficulties paying the mortgate or paying rent, putting food on the table, paying for school fees or school uniforms."

The penalty rate cuts will particularly affect pharmacy staff, who will take a cut of more than $3200 a year.

Sunday and public holiday penalty rates for workers in the fast-food, retail, hospitality and pharmacy sectors will drop 10 to 15 per cent.

The Fair Work Commission cut Sunday penalty rates for hospitality, retail, pharmacy and fast food employees from July 1 last year.

UFS Pharmacies decided a year ago not to introduce the cuts.

Coburg staff member Olivia Douglas, who is also studying pharmacy part-time, told reporters her extra earnings from penalty rates were essential for her to be able to pay rent and bills.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Caveman
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6181
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #1 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:58am
 
Well Australians need to stand shoulder to shoulder and refuse to recognise the current governing system (a union that is not financed by gov in amy way) The gov is forever voting themselves pay rises or manipulating laws to benifit them and only them. They are betraying us when in actual fact they should be helping us.
And they wonder why so many people are now going back to cash in hand. They only have their greedy little selves to blame.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #2 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:10am
 
Hooray for me, I stick up for the poor.
That means I am a really, really good person, so please vote for me.
I mean, I want to force people trying to run a business to pay people more than double their normal pay rate for working on Sundays, because that is a "Holy"??? day?( well I may be an atheist meself, but I am pro religious freedom, look at my record sticking up for muslims. What about Jews? They should get extra penalty rates after sundown friday, until the first three stars appear in the sky, on saturday night? If it is overcast, does the extra rate keep running on until next saturday night?
F' off ya bigot, racist, anti-semite, transphobic, nazi!) Well that did not work out as well for me as I'd hoped.
PS White Knight, ( are you being self depracating? or are you really so stupid the irony, of being a hypocrite virtue signaller choosing that avatar, escapes you?)
THERE IS ALREADY A THREAD ON THIS ISSUE. You beautiful caring person.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #3 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 8:01am
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:10am:
Hooray for me, I stick up for the poor.
That means I am a really, really good person, so please vote for me.
I mean, I want to force people trying to run a business to pay people more than double their normal pay rate for working on Sundays, because that is a "Holy"??? day?( well I may be an atheist meself, but I am pro religious freedom, look at my record sticking up for muslims. What about Jews? They should get extra penalty rates after sundown friday, until the first three stars appear in the sky, on saturday night? If it is overcast, does the extra rate keep running on until next saturday night?
F' off ya bigot, racist, anti-semite, transphobic, nazi!) Well that did not work out as well for me as I'd hoped.
PS White Knight, ( are you being self depracating? or are you really so stupid the irony, of being a hypocrite virtue signaller choosing that avatar, escapes you?)
THERE IS ALREADY A THREAD ON THIS ISSUE. You beautiful caring person.


You seem confused.

Nobody is asking for anything extra.

They're just asking that existing entitlements not be taken away.

Penalty rates have been around for many, many decades.

The workers don't want more money - they merely want to keep their existing rate of pay.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #4 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 1:40pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:10am:
Hooray for me, I stick up for the poor.
That means I am a really, really good person, so please vote for me.
I mean, I want to force people trying to run a business to pay people more than double their normal pay rate for working on Sundays, because that is a "Holy"??? day?( well I may be an atheist meself, but I am pro religious freedom, look at my record sticking up for muslims. What about Jews? They should get extra penalty rates after sundown friday, until the first three stars appear in the sky, on saturday night? If it is overcast, does the extra rate keep running on until next saturday night?
F' off ya bigot, racist, anti-semite, transphobic, nazi!) Well that did not work out as well for me as I'd hoped.
PS White Knight, ( are you being self depracating? or are you really so stupid the irony, of being a hypocrite virtue signaller choosing that avatar, escapes you?)
THERE IS ALREADY A THREAD ON THIS ISSUE. You beautiful caring person.


I mean, I want to force people trying to run a business to pay people more than double their normal pay rate for working on Sundays


Do you know that most of the awards for the impacted industries did not pay double time for Sundays and none have ever paid more than double time on Sundays ?

Apparently not, it is rather strange to have a very strong opinion on something that never happened.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #5 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 2:22pm
 
If small business wants to make some money on a sunday and expects to pay their employees a bowl of rice then they can shut shop for all I care.

And anyone who believes in trickle down economics will believe anything.....LOL
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #6 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 2:26pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:10am:
Hooray for me, I stick up for the poor.
That means I am a really, really good person, so please vote for me.
I mean, I want to force people trying to run a business to pay people more than double their normal pay rate for working on Sundays, because that is a "Holy"??? day?( well I may be an atheist meself, but I am pro religious freedom, look at my record sticking up for muslims. What about Jews? They should get extra penalty rates after sundown friday, until the first three stars appear in the sky, on saturday night? If it is overcast, does the extra rate keep running on until next saturday night?
F' off ya bigot, racist, anti-semite, transphobic, nazi!) Well that did not work out as well for me as I'd hoped.
PS White Knight, ( are you being self depracating? or are you really so stupid the irony, of being a hypocrite virtue signaller choosing that avatar, escapes you?)
THERE IS ALREADY A THREAD ON THIS ISSUE. You beautiful caring person.


What a sanctimonious outpouring of BS.  Grin
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
red baron
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10204
Blue Mountains
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #7 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:19pm
 

Attacking the wages of our poorest paid workers is  warfare at its lowest level

The incredulity of this is that Shorten's handwritng is all over this as much as Malcolm Turnbull's

In 2016 Bill Shorten undertook to accept the Fair Works Commission's results on Penalty Rates

He has now backflipped and allegedly says he will reverse the cuts if Labor gets in

With Bill Shorten it depends what day of the week it is and what mood he is in at any given time in regard to what he says is Labor Policy

Wonder how many Captain's Calls he will make  before the election that he will have to swallow humble pie on 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #8 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm
 
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #9 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #10 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #11 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #12 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:51pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?


The majority of people.

What's so hard to understand about this?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #13 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:51pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?


The majority of people.

What's so hard to understand about this?


^^^See Above^^^
I didn't didn't think you'd get sidetracked so quickly.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #14 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #15 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm
 
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #16 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #17 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #18 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #19 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


You're talking about overtime rates.

Different thing.

We're discussing penalty rates.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #20 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #21 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:01pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


Explain exactly what days/hours/rates you are referring to.  I can't make sense if what you have posted.  You'll have to clarify with specifics.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #22 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:02pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:01pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


Explain exactly what days/hours/rates you are referring to.  I can't make sense if what you have posted.  You'll have to clarify with specifics.

I suggest you read the posts and keep trying until you understand.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #23 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm
 
No....your post makes zero sense.  No matter how long I read it......zero sense.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #24 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #25 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #26 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:11pm
 
Start a business yourself and just employ untrained, gender non-specific people, at double time, all the time.
Refuse to take the tax cut, and demand to pay the extra 5%.
They will love you for the great caring boss you will be, and work twice as hard to support you, so you can afford it.
You can have them teach English to the "refugee" family you took into your home, to show your support for human rights and multiculturalism.
Come on, get behind your beliefs with more than BS.
You could start doing tinny runs to indo, bring back one family at a time, really get the whole boat routes humming again, to show Bill your support.

Fanboys just get dumber and dumber.

It's lonely in the middle. Cry Cry Cry Cool
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #27 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #28 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:18pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.


IR laws can change with a hot gust of wind.  That is what we DON'T have a hostile senate for.

You want casuals to get double-time for Sundays, don't you Greggerry?  That is what you are campaigning for under the flag of standing up for the poor workers' rights.  Double-pay for yuppies moonlighting on the weekends.  You think that is fair?  How do you feel about legalising armed-robbery?  Think of those poor, starving lefties with nothing better than piddley little sawn-off shotguns.  Doesn't that make you want to get up and vote, this minute!
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #29 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:24pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.


IR laws can change with a hot gust of wind.  That is what we DON'T have a hostile senate for.

You want casuals to get double-time for Sundays, don't you Greggerry?  That is what you are campaigning for under the flag of standing up for the poor workers' rights.  Double-pay for yuppies moonlighting on the weekends.  You think that is fair?  How do you feel about legalising armed-robbery?  Think of those poor, starving lefties with nothing better than piddley little sawn-off shotguns.  Doesn't that make you want to get up and vote, this minute!


I think that people being compensated for working unsocial hours is fair, no matter who they are - casuals, part-timers, and full-timers.

Moreover, nobody - and I cannot emphasise this enough - absolutely nobody is asking for anything extra.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.

All the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

How is that a bad thing?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #30 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:27pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.


IR laws can change with a hot gust of wind.  That is what we DON'T have a hostile senate for.

You want casuals to get double-time for Sundays, don't you Greggerry?  That is what you are campaigning for under the flag of standing up for the poor workers' rights.  Double-pay for yuppies moonlighting on the weekends.  You think that is fair?  How do you feel about legalising armed-robbery?  Think of those poor, starving lefties with nothing better than piddley little sawn-off shotguns.  Doesn't that make you want to get up and vote, this minute!


I think that people being compensated for working unsocial hours is fair, no matter who they are - casuals, part-timers, and full-timers.

Moreover, nobody - and I cannot emphasise this enough - absolutely nobody is asking for anything extra.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.


All the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

How is that a bad thing?

Bull!  Greggery.  Baby did a bad, bad thing.  Now time to rinse the bath.  Maybe baby will take those swimming lessons now.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #31 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:29pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:27pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.


IR laws can change with a hot gust of wind.  That is what we DON'T have a hostile senate for.

You want casuals to get double-time for Sundays, don't you Greggerry?  That is what you are campaigning for under the flag of standing up for the poor workers' rights.  Double-pay for yuppies moonlighting on the weekends.  You think that is fair?  How do you feel about legalising armed-robbery?  Think of those poor, starving lefties with nothing better than piddley little sawn-off shotguns.  Doesn't that make you want to get up and vote, this minute!


I think that people being compensated for working unsocial hours is fair, no matter who they are - casuals, part-timers, and full-timers.

Moreover, nobody - and I cannot emphasise this enough - absolutely nobody is asking for anything extra.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.


All the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

How is that a bad thing?

Bull!  Greggery.  Baby did a bad, bad thing.  Now time to rinse the bath.  Maybe baby will take those swimming lessons now.


No, it's not bull.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.

And, nobody is asking for anything extra: all the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

Whoever told you anything different, is lying to you.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #32 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:30pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:11pm:
Start a business yourself and just employ untrained, gender non-specific people, at double time, all the time.
Refuse to take the tax cut, and demand to pay the extra 5%.
They will love you for the great caring boss you will be, and work twice as hard to support you, so you can afford it.
You can have them teach English to the "refugee" family you took into your home, to show your support for human rights and multiculturalism.
Come on, get behind your beliefs with more than BS.
You could start doing tinny runs to indo, bring back one family at a time, really get the whole boat routes humming again, to show Bill your support.

Fanboys just get dumber and dumber.

It's lonely in the middle. Cry Cry Cry Cool


You aren't in the middle.  You admit being racist....I think you boasted that you are the only Member here who openly admits it.  Think I'll leave the rest of what you have said about arrests etc well alone.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #33 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:32pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:29pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:27pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.


IR laws can change with a hot gust of wind.  That is what we DON'T have a hostile senate for.

You want casuals to get double-time for Sundays, don't you Greggerry?  That is what you are campaigning for under the flag of standing up for the poor workers' rights.  Double-pay for yuppies moonlighting on the weekends.  You think that is fair?  How do you feel about legalising armed-robbery?  Think of those poor, starving lefties with nothing better than piddley little sawn-off shotguns.  Doesn't that make you want to get up and vote, this minute!


I think that people being compensated for working unsocial hours is fair, no matter who they are - casuals, part-timers, and full-timers.

Moreover, nobody - and I cannot emphasise this enough - absolutely nobody is asking for anything extra.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.


All the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

How is that a bad thing?

Bull!  Greggery.  Baby did a bad, bad thing.  Now time to rinse the bath.  Maybe baby will take those swimming lessons now.


No, it's not bull.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.

And, nobody is asking for anything extra: all the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

Whoever told you anything different, is lying to you.


Many, many decades, eh?  Oh, well then that's better now.  If one decade takes us back to Rudd's Fair Go broken promise, then now far back do many, many decades take us back, whitefella?
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #34 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm
 
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #35 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #36 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:32pm:
Many, many decades, eh?  Oh, well then that's better now.  If one decade takes us back to Rudd's Fair Go broken promise, then now far back do many, many decades take us back, whitefella?


Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - were introduced in Australia in 1947.

So, we're talking seven decades.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #37 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:39pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:32pm:
Many, many decades, eh?  Oh, well then that's better now.  If one decade takes us back to Rudd's Fair Go broken promise, then now far back do many, many decades take us back, whitefella?


Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - were introduced in Australia in 1947.

So, we're talking seven decades.


Yes, for fulltimers who work more than eight hours in one day, and/or more than five days in one week.  There was no official 'casual' rate in 1947.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #38 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:39pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


No, they are not.

Overtime is paid for working extra hours.

Penalty rates are paid for working unsocial hours.

And, casuals are paid a 20% loading to compensate them for not receiving paid annual leave and paid sick leave.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #39 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:41pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:39pm:
Penalty rates are paid for working unsocial hours.

And, casuals a re paid a 20% loading to compensate them for not receiving paid annual leave and paid sick leave.


That's politics and Liverpool, oops I mean Shorten lost the election.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #40 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:41pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:32pm:
Many, many decades, eh?  Oh, well then that's better now.  If one decade takes us back to Rudd's Fair Go broken promise, then now far back do many, many decades take us back, whitefella?


Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - were introduced in Australia in 1947.

So, we're talking seven decades.


Yes, for fulltimers who work more than eight hours in one day, and/or more than five days in one week.  There was no official 'casual' rate in 1947.


No.

You're getting confused with overtime.

Moreover, I didn't mention casuals.

It seems you're getting yourself more and more confused here.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #41 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:44pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:41pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:39pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:32pm:
Many, many decades, eh?  Oh, well then that's better now.  If one decade takes us back to Rudd's Fair Go broken promise, then now far back do many, many decades take us back, whitefella?


Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - were introduced in Australia in 1947.

So, we're talking seven decades.


Yes, for fulltimers who work more than eight hours in one day, and/or more than five days in one week.  There was no official 'casual' rate in 1947.


No.

You're getting confused with overtime.

Moreover, I didn't mention casuals.

It seems you're getting yourself more and more confused here.


Don't be stupid, Greggery.  It is the misunderstanding of penalty rates that has become confused.

Someone who works more than 40 hours in a week is worth more than someone who only turns up on Sundays.  Your logic defies logic.  That is why the ridiculous fake-penalty rates will eventually be cured by humanity.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #42 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:45pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/penalty-rates Penalty rates

Quote:
penalty rates
pl n
Australian and NZ rates of pay, such as double time, paid to employees working outside normal working hours


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overtime?s=t Overtime

Quote:
overtime
[noun, adverb, adjective oh-ver-tahym; verb oh-ver-tahym]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
working time before or after one's regularly scheduled working hours; extra working time.
pay for such time (distinguished from straight time).
time in excess of a prescribed period.


Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #43 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:46pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:32pm:
Many, many decades, eh?  Oh, well then that's better now.  If one decade takes us back to Rudd's Fair Go broken promise, then now far back do many, many decades take us back, whitefella?


Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - were introduced in Australia in 1947.

So, we're talking seven decades.



Actually, I have to correct myself there.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours (i.e. Sundays) - were first introduced in 1919.

It wasn't until 1947 that penalty rates were paid for working on Saturdays.

So, they've been around for almost 100 years.



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #44 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:47pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:45pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/penalty-rates Penalty rates

Quote:
penalty rates
pl n
Australian and NZ rates of pay, such as double time, paid to employees working outside normal working hours


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overtime?s=t Overtime

Quote:
overtime
[noun, adverb, adjective oh-ver-tahym; verb oh-ver-tahym]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
working time before or after one's regularly scheduled working hours; extra working time.
pay for such time (distinguished from straight time).
time in excess of a prescribed period.


Spot

If that's the way you kids want to move the goalposts.  Then all I can do is wish you well with your 457 visa scams.  Let them eat the cake.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #45 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:48pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:45pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/penalty-rates Penalty rates

Quote:
penalty rates
pl n
Australian and NZ rates of pay, such as double time, paid to employees working outside normal working hours


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overtime?s=t Overtime

Quote:
overtime
[noun, adverb, adjective oh-ver-tahym; verb oh-ver-tahym]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
working time before or after one's regularly scheduled working hours; extra working time.
pay for such time (distinguished from straight time).
time in excess of a prescribed period.


Spot

If that's the way you kids want to move the goalposts.  Then all I can do is wish you well with your 457 visa scams.  Let them eat the cake.


I didnt move any goalposts i simply gave you the definitions

Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #46 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:50pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:45pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/penalty-rates Penalty rates

Quote:
penalty rates
pl n
Australian and NZ rates of pay, such as double time, paid to employees working outside normal working hours


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overtime?s=t Overtime

Quote:
overtime
[noun, adverb, adjective oh-ver-tahym; verb oh-ver-tahym]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
working time before or after one's regularly scheduled working hours; extra working time.
pay for such time (distinguished from straight time).
time in excess of a prescribed period.


Spot


No point, Spot.

He's either drunk or trolling.

I suspect a little from column A, and a little from column B.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #47 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:52pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:45pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/penalty-rates Penalty rates

Quote:
penalty rates
pl n
Australian and NZ rates of pay, such as double time, paid to employees working outside normal working hours


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/overtime?s=t Overtime

Quote:
overtime
[noun, adverb, adjective oh-ver-tahym; verb oh-ver-tahym]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
working time before or after one's regularly scheduled working hours; extra working time.
pay for such time (distinguished from straight time).
time in excess of a prescribed period.


Spot

If that's the way you kids want to move the goalposts.  Then all I can do is wish you well with your 457 visa scams.  Let them eat the cake.


I didnt move any goalposts i simply gave you the definitions

Spot

Robert E. Lee must be turning in his grave this morning in Arlington cemetery.  It will make a nice carpark for the new mall if you concrete over it.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #48 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:24pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


Sorry but you are very wrong, I will attempt to explain it for you.

Overtime is paid for working additional hours after the weekly or daily hours have been completed.

i.e. if working 7.6 hours per day and are asked to work an additional two hours that would be overtime.

As would being asked to work on a Saturday if you had already worked 38 hours that week.

Overtime is hours in excess of the weekly normal hours (38 in Australia).

In the case of penalty rates they are paid when you work outside of normal hours as part of your normal weekly hours. normal hours are often around 7am to 6 pm on Monday to Friday. this is as a part of your normal hours of duty and done on a rostered basis.

This means that you work 38 hours in the week but all or some of them fall between 6pm and 7 am Monday to Friday or at any time on a Saturday / Sunday. This is not overtime as you only worked your normal 38 hour week it is payed as penalty rates.

I hope that this clarifies your confusion, a bit.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #49 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:29pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


Sorry but you are very wrong, I will attempt to explain it for you.

Overtime is paid for working additional hours after the weekly or daily hours have been completed.

i.e. if working 7.6 hours per day and are asked to work an additional two hours that would be overtime.

As would being asked to work on a Saturday if you had already worked 38 hours that week.

Overtime is hours in excess of the weekly normal hours (38 in Australia).

In the case of penalty rates they are paid when you work outside of normal hours. normal hours are often around 7am to 6 pm on Monday to Friday. this is as a part of your normal hours of duty and done on a rostered basis.

This means that you work 38 hours in the week but all or some of them fall between 6pm and 7 am Monday to Friday or at any time on a Saturday / Sunday. This is not overtime it is payed as penalty rates.

I hope that this clarifies your confusion.

I am not confused, and nor is General Lee.  It is the greedy pretend left which is attempting to confuse society, because the don't have the honesty to saw the barrel off a second-hand shotgun. 

If you do not work fulltime, then you work casual, or go on the dole.  I hope that they make them pay back all the stolen money after the next election.  I know it will not happen now, but I would rather die an honest Australian than to support political armed robbery.  Some of us still respect what brung us here.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #50 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:33pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


Sorry but you are very wrong, I will attempt to explain it for you.

Overtime is paid for working additional hours after the weekly or daily hours have been completed.

i.e. if working 7.6 hours per day and are asked to work an additional two hours that would be overtime.

As would being asked to work on a Saturday if you had already worked 38 hours that week.

Overtime is hours in excess of the weekly normal hours (38 in Australia).

In the case of penalty rates they are paid when you work outside of normal hours. normal hours are often around 7am to 6 pm on Monday to Friday. this is as a part of your normal hours of duty and done on a rostered basis.

This means that you work 38 hours in the week but all or some of them fall between 6pm and 7 am Monday to Friday or at any time on a Saturday / Sunday. This is not overtime it is payed as penalty rates.

I hope that this clarifies your confusion.

I am not confused, and nor is General Lee.  It is the greedy pretend left which is attempting to confuse society, because the don't have the honesty to saw the barrel off a second-hand shotgun. 

If you do not work fulltime, then you work casual, or go on the dole.  I hope that they make them pay back all the stolen money after the next election.  I know it will not happen now, but I would rather die an honest Australian than to support political armed robbery.  Some of us still respect what brung us here.



...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #51 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:34pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:01pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


Explain exactly what days/hours/rates you are referring to.  I can't make sense if what you have posted.  You'll have to clarify with specifics.



He is talking about overtime where the rate is time and a half for the first 2 hours and double time after that. The calculation shows for 16 hours I imagine is how covering a double 8 hr shift on overtime would look.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #52 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:37pm
 
On what days?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #53 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:37pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:33pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


Sorry but you are very wrong, I will attempt to explain it for you.

Overtime is paid for working additional hours after the weekly or daily hours have been completed.

i.e. if working 7.6 hours per day and are asked to work an additional two hours that would be overtime.

As would being asked to work on a Saturday if you had already worked 38 hours that week.

Overtime is hours in excess of the weekly normal hours (38 in Australia).

In the case of penalty rates they are paid when you work outside of normal hours. normal hours are often around 7am to 6 pm on Monday to Friday. this is as a part of your normal hours of duty and done on a rostered basis.

This means that you work 38 hours in the week but all or some of them fall between 6pm and 7 am Monday to Friday or at any time on a Saturday / Sunday. This is not overtime it is payed as penalty rates.

I hope that this clarifies your confusion.

I am not confused, and nor is General Lee.  It is the greedy pretend left which is attempting to confuse society, because the don't have the honesty to saw the barrel off a second-hand shotgun. 

If you do not work fulltime, then you work casual, or go on the dole.  I hope that they make them pay back all the stolen money after the next election.  I know it will not happen now, but I would rather die an honest Australian than to support political armed robbery.  Some of us still respect what brung us here.



https://media.giphy.com/media/ypX8YZszkIXFC/source.gif

Greggery, after your foolish mischief, you obvioudly realise I have no choice!  No choice at all but to concrete over your blue star and punish you for being uncouth in class like that. Whatever has gotten into you, young lady???

Go and stand in the corner and think about whitefellas, this minute!
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #54 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:38pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


Sorry but you are very wrong, I will attempt to explain it for you.

Overtime is paid for working additional hours after the weekly or daily hours have been completed.

i.e. if working 7.6 hours per day and are asked to work an additional two hours that would be overtime.

As would being asked to work on a Saturday if you had already worked 38 hours that week.

Overtime is hours in excess of the weekly normal hours (38 in Australia).

In the case of penalty rates they are paid when you work outside of normal hours. normal hours are often around 7am to 6 pm on Monday to Friday. this is as a part of your normal hours of duty and done on a rostered basis.

This means that you work 38 hours in the week but all or some of them fall between 6pm and 7 am Monday to Friday or at any time on a Saturday / Sunday. This is not overtime it is payed as penalty rates.

I hope that this clarifies your confusion.

I am not confused, and nor is General Lee.  It is the greedy pretend left which is attempting to confuse society, because the don't have the honesty to saw the barrel off a second-hand shotgun. 

If you do not work fulltime, then you work casual, or go on the dole.  I hope that they make them pay back all the stolen money after the next election.  I know it will not happen now, but I would rather die an honest Australian than to support political armed robbery.  Some of us still respect what brung us here.


If not confused you are just wrong have it how you like.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #55 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:41pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:38pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:29pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:35pm:
What you are talking about Imrah is overtime. What greggory is talking about is penalty rates. You need to discuss the same thing to have a conversation.

Spot

Overtime and penalty rates are the very same thing.  They are for fulltimers.  Casuals get a 20% loading for doing the 'unsocial' hours.


Sorry but you are very wrong, I will attempt to explain it for you.

Overtime is paid for working additional hours after the weekly or daily hours have been completed.

i.e. if working 7.6 hours per day and are asked to work an additional two hours that would be overtime.

As would being asked to work on a Saturday if you had already worked 38 hours that week.

Overtime is hours in excess of the weekly normal hours (38 in Australia).

In the case of penalty rates they are paid when you work outside of normal hours. normal hours are often around 7am to 6 pm on Monday to Friday. this is as a part of your normal hours of duty and done on a rostered basis.

This means that you work 38 hours in the week but all or some of them fall between 6pm and 7 am Monday to Friday or at any time on a Saturday / Sunday. This is not overtime it is payed as penalty rates.

I hope that this clarifies your confusion.

I am not confused, and nor is General Lee.  It is the greedy pretend left which is attempting to confuse society, because the don't have the honesty to saw the barrel off a second-hand shotgun. 

If you do not work fulltime, then you work casual, or go on the dole.  I hope that they make them pay back all the stolen money after the next election.  I know it will not happen now, but I would rather die an honest Australian than to support political armed robbery.  Some of us still respect what brung us here.


If not confused you are just wrong have it how you like.

So you want to get rid of the Upper House then?
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #56 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:41pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:37pm:
On what days? 


Depends on the award but generally any day except for Sunday where overtime is generally paid at double time all day.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #57 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:42pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:41pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:37pm:
On what days? 


Depends on the award but generally any day except for Sunday where overtime is generally paid at double time all day.

BECAUSE Sunday is the seventh day, dunderklumpen!
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #58 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:44pm
 
PS:  711 sells coffees for $1.00 a cup, 24/7.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #59 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:57pm
 
Cheesy
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #60 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:58pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Cheesy

One day that Pfiser mob will invent a new kind of viagra, Aussie, just for social media correspondents like you.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #61 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:22pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:27pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:24pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:09pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


No.

Unsocial hours worked are worth more, not the people.

Penalty rates are compensation for working unsocial hours.

Overtime rates are compensation for working extra hours.


EXTRA HOURS !!!

I'd give you a blue star for that one if I was your grade 3 teacher, Greggerry.

Under what circumstances would you consider someone's extra hours to be unsocial in the context of gainful employment?


Weekends, public holidays, and after 6pm.

That's when penalty rates are generally paid, as those are generally seen to be unsocial hours.

This has nothing to do with my opinion, by the way - it's IR law.


IR laws can change with a hot gust of wind.  That is what we DON'T have a hostile senate for.

You want casuals to get double-time for Sundays, don't you Greggerry?  That is what you are campaigning for under the flag of standing up for the poor workers' rights.  Double-pay for yuppies moonlighting on the weekends.  You think that is fair?  How do you feel about legalising armed-robbery?  Think of those poor, starving lefties with nothing better than piddley little sawn-off shotguns.  Doesn't that make you want to get up and vote, this minute!


I think that people being compensated for working unsocial hours is fair, no matter who they are - casuals, part-timers, and full-timers.

Moreover, nobody - and I cannot emphasise this enough - absolutely nobody is asking for anything extra.

Penalty rates - for working unsocial hours - have been around for many, many decades.


All the workers are asking is that their existing entitlements (rate of pay) not be taken away.

How is that a bad thing?

Bull!  Greggery.  Baby did a bad, bad thing.  Now time to rinse the bath.  Maybe baby will take those swimming lessons now.


It's not bull at all.

I've been in the workforce for 45 years & penalty rates were in when I started(1973) & were in before then.

All that has happened up to now is reductions in wages & conditions .... now it's penalty rates.

That is not a good thing.

And yes ... working saturdays/nights & sunday/nights are unsociable hours .....

ask all the people that don't work those hours if they'd like to ...

The same applies to people working around the clock shift & broken shift work.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #62 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:26pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?


To all the latte sipping horses like you who don't work unsocial hours.

It's not about lifestyle choices anymore it's about having a job ......

and not having their rates of pay reduced to please people like you & lousy business owners who don't have a decent business model.

Honestly your attitude is appallingly elitist aka arrogant snobbery. 
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #63 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:29pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


You're talking about overtime rates.

Different thing.

We're discussing penalty rates.


Grin The smart arse isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Oh dear dear.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #64 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:31pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


You're talking about overtime rates.

Different thing.

We're discussing penalty rates.


Grin The smart arse isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Oh dear dear.

It's okay, pretender.  Your kind wouldn't even get an interview at my 711.
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #65 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:36pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:56pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:48pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:27pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:24pm:
Seems to me a lot of people are not quite sure what the proper definition of a penalty rate is.   For some, it seems that just turning up on the day is a penalty to their lifestyle choices.


Not sure what you actually mean there.

Penalty rates are paid to workers so as to compensate them for working unsocial hours.


You just exemplified it splendidly, Greggery.  Unsocial hours to whom, exactly?

Damned cats!  Bad as rats!  They'll eat anything that's got some meat on it.  A good bit of listerine ought to help that tongue as long as you're up on your tetanus jabs, Greggery.

Now let's start with the fulltime roster.  Assume a 40hr week because that makes the addups much simpler. 

Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.
How do you rate the sixth day? 
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)

The seventh day is easy.  Double-time all day.

There's the traditional definition of penalty rates.  Any other problems here?


The traditional definition of penalty rates is 'compensation for working unsocial hours'.

Do you support penalty rates?


That's your untraditional opinion.  Do you like addups too, Greggery?  Show me your best arithmetic, like I just did.  You're making this an unsocial hour with your algebra.


No.

It's what penalty rates are.

Nothing to do with my opinion.



Yes, I thought so.  Your opinion is that someone who flits in on the weekends between lectures is worth more than someone who has worked the whole week already.


In the industry concerned who are these fulltimers you're crapping on about?

The hospitality & retail industries are over subscribed to casuals & part timers ....

that's why those  weekend flit ins need their penalty rates for saturday & sunday.

Those who choose to only work through the week do so because the don't want to work the weekends because that's the time they have with family & friends going out to venues to get served by those working those unsocial hours.

Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #66 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:39pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:31pm:
Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


You're talking about overtime rates.

Different thing.

We're discussing penalty rates.


Grin The smart arse isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Oh dear dear.

It's okay, pretender.  Your kind wouldn't even get an interview at my 711.


711?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin One of the biggest exploiters of staff in the country.

I wouldn't lower myself to front to an interview with any of the unscrupulous franchisees or owners.

How do you like your papadums or spring rolls?  Grin
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
Imrah
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 663
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #67 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:43pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:39pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:31pm:
Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 4:00pm:
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Quote:
Mon-Fri: (8 x 1.0) + (2 x 1.5) + (6 x 2.0) = 23 hours pay for 16 hours work.


On normal week days?  Makes no sense to me.

Quote:
How do you rate the sixth day?
(2 x 1.5) x (14 x 2.0) = 31 hours pay for 16 hours work. (correction)


Where does the 2 and the 14 come from?

Those are hours at the two different kinds of penalty rates.  Time & a half and double time.  That is how we addup the penalty rates for a 16 hour day for a fulltimer.


You're talking about overtime rates.

Different thing.

We're discussing penalty rates.


Grin The smart arse isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Oh dear dear.

It's okay, pretender.  Your kind wouldn't even get an interview at my 711.


711?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin One of the biggest exploiters of staff in the country.

I wouldn't lower myself to front to an interview with any of the unscrupulous franchisees or owners.

How do you like your papadums or spring rolls?  Grin

How could that be?  The 711 is one of the most successful enterprises to grace our loving little shores, comrade.  They can do coffee for just a dollar, anytime you like!

Maybe there's something smelly in Denmark?  I wonder what that could be?  Surely not!
Back to top
 

Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #68 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:39pm
 
Quote:
Those who choose to only work through the week do so because the don't want to work the weekends because that's the time they have with family & friends going out to venues to get served by those working those unsocial hours.
From, who gives a rat's, their idiocy is interchangeable!

So now these lefty loons are openly admitting to being anti-family.
People who need, or choose to spend time with their kids should get paid less than students high on speed working these "unsocial" hours.
Yep, these mad Billy Boy supporters are saying mums and dads who love their kids are less worth a fair wage than single students.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.

Penalty rates and Overtime rates are different?????

Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.
SEE, once more these lefties are attacking families.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
I rest my finger.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #69 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:42pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Quote:
Those who choose to only work through the week do so because the don't want to work the weekends because that's the time they have with family & friends going out to venues to get served by those working those unsocial hours.
From, who gives a rat's, their idiocy is interchangeable!

So now these lefty loons are openly admitting to being anti-family.
People who need, or choose to spend time with their kids should get paid less than students high on speed working these "unsocial" hours.
Yep, these mad Billy Boy supporters are saying mums and dads who love their kids are less worth a fair wage than single students.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.

Penalty rates and Overtime rates are different?????

Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.
SEE, once more these lefties are attacking families.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
I rest my finger.


Mums and Dads work unsocial hours too.

And, they're paid penalty rates for doing so.

That is, they're compensated with extra money for being away from their families during the weekend, and at night.

Why would you want to take that money away from them?

I'm curious.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #70 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:47pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:43pm:
How could that be?  The 711 is one of the most successful enterprises to grace our loving little shores, comrade.  They can do coffee for just a dollar, anytime you like!

Maybe there's something smelly in Denmark?  I wonder what that could be?  Surely not!


They can do coffee for just a dollar, anytime you like!


Anyone ever tried the product that 711 call coffee. I doubt that there are many survivors.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #71 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:52pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Quote:
Those who choose to only work through the week do so because the don't want to work the weekends because that's the time they have with family & friends going out to venues to get served by those working those unsocial hours.
From, who gives a rat's, their idiocy is interchangeable!

So now these lefty loons are openly admitting to being anti-family.
People who need, or choose to spend time with their kids should get paid less than students high on speed working these "unsocial" hours.
Yep, these mad Billy Boy supporters are saying mums and dads who love their kids are less worth a fair wage than single students.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.

Penalty rates and Overtime rates are different?????

Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.
SEE, once more these lefties are attacking families.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
I rest my finger.


Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.


There is no compulsion for any employer to pay either penalty rates or overtime. It is a choice that they make.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57063
Here
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #72 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:56pm
 
Imrah wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 6:31pm:
It's okay, pretender.  Your kind wouldn't even get an interview at my 711.


You will catch something with this.


...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #73 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:33am
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Quote:
Those who choose to only work through the week do so because the don't want to work the weekends because that's the time they have with family & friends going out to venues to get served by those working those unsocial hours.
From, who gives a rat's, their idiocy is interchangeable!

So now these lefty loons are openly admitting to being anti-family.
People who need, or choose to spend time with their kids should get paid less than students high on speed working these "unsocial" hours.
Yep, these mad Billy Boy supporters are saying mums and dads who love their kids are less worth a fair wage than single students.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.

Penalty rates and Overtime rates are different?????

Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.
SEE, once more these lefties are attacking families.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
I rest my finger.


Well seems that poor bastard has a shyte business model & should do all the weekend work him/herself.

Not all who work unsocial hours on the weekend are students on speed. Roll Eyes What a crock.

And those who work those weekends also have family that they may want to be with ... like everyone else.

That's why weekend work is classed as "unsocial hours" and why penalty rates have been made applicable.

And yes weekend penalties are different to overtime rates because they apply to the entire shift/time worked.

Overtime rates are applicable only after exceeding ordinary time shift lengths.

You have a blinkered view.
Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #74 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 7:44am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:52pm:
mozzaok wrote on Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Quote:
Those who choose to only work through the week do so because the don't want to work the weekends because that's the time they have with family & friends going out to venues to get served by those working those unsocial hours.
From, who gives a rat's, their idiocy is interchangeable!

So now these lefty loons are openly admitting to being anti-family.
People who need, or choose to spend time with their kids should get paid less than students high on speed working these "unsocial" hours.
Yep, these mad Billy Boy supporters are saying mums and dads who love their kids are less worth a fair wage than single students.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.

Penalty rates and Overtime rates are different?????

Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.
SEE, once more these lefties are attacking families.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
I rest my finger.


Tell that to the poor bastard trying to support his family who has to pay them.


There is no compulsion for any employer to pay either penalty rates or overtime. It is a choice that they make.


Correct.

Weekend penalty rates have been around for 100 (and 1) years - everyone knows they have to be paid.

If you don't want to pay them, don't open on weekends.

Or, do the weekend shifts yourself.

Simple.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26458
Australia
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #75 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 8:11am
 
All these years there hasnt been such a problem with penalty rates. If employers wanted ppl to work unsocial hours they paid them. Why all of a sudden in these times where a coffee costs about 10 bucks can they suddenly not afford it?

Spot
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #76 - Jul 3rd, 2018 at 8:33am
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 3rd, 2018 at 8:11am:
All these years there hasnt been such a problem with penalty rates. If employers wanted ppl to work unsocial hours they paid them. Why all of a sudden in these times where a coffee costs about 10 bucks can they suddenly not afford it?

Spot


That's right.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra.

They just want to retain the entitlements that have been in place for 100 years.

They're not asking for more money - they're just asking that their wages aren't cut.

How is that unreasonable?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
whiteknight
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7593
melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #77 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 6:46am
 
Union fights back against sexist push to cut hairdressers’ penalty rates
4th of July 2018
My Sunshine Coast

The Australian Workers' Union, acting on behalf of Hair Stylists Australia, is fighting back against a coordinated push from employers to trim the Sunday penalty rates of hairdressers by 50 per cent.

The AWU established Hair Stylists Australia last year to represent the interests of the lowest paid trade in Australia: hairdressing.

The Australian Industry Group, operating on behalf of Hair and Beauty Australia, has lodged a submission to the Fair Work Commission arguing penalty rates for hairdressing should be cut in light of the cuts experienced by retail and hospitality workers.   Sad

However, the AWU, in conjunction with the SDA, has now lodged a countering submission to the Commission arguing the employers' rationale is sexist and wrong.

"Hairdressing is a trade like any other. It is simply incorrect to line it up against unskilled work," said Daniel Walton, National Secretary of the AWU.

"Hairdressers train for as long as other trades to get their certificate. The only difference is they're predominantly women, predominately young, and have traditionally not had a union to represent their interests.

"Hairdressers should be compared to other trades like plumbing, bricklaying, and carpentry — none of which are facing a push for pay rates to be cut.

"We are facing a wage crisis in this country and the inequality gap is growing by the month. Working people are crying out for a pay rise, and yet here we see greedy employers going after the lowest paid trade in the country.   Sad

"It is a disgrace that employers have banded together to try and snatch away a big chunk of the modest take-home pay that hairdressers have.

"Hairdressers now have industrial strength and we will fight this as hard as we can.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #78 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:02pm
 
I am almost too afraid to ask, but a few years ago when I was just chanting along to Labor Policy, like the dumb fek fanboys banging this Penalty Rate drum today, was I so shallow and stupid? I remember I was always a self righteous bugger, but I do not remember being this stupid.
Grendel, Longy, Soren, freekick time, sink the boot in now.
Juliar and similarly retarded fekwits, do not bother, your opinions will never impress any person with IQ's beyond double digits.

I was never impressed greatly with the prowess of most fellow travellers, at the time, but now so often they sound just like a mirror version of Juliar, just a brainless fanboy, foghorning the party line.

So, I won't waste too much energy on this, because anytime a point they cannot address is raised, they just ignore it and bang on with some equally spurious inanity. They move the goal posts so often they do not even know what direction they should even be kicking anymore.

So, keep them, they have been around for ages, end of argument.
Great argument, worked for slavery, denial of women's rights, bleeding the sick, jail homosexuals, need I go on?
Keep doing stuff because we have done it for ages passes no intellectual or moral test, it is just declaring habituation inviolate.

Bill Shorten in an astounding short sighted and unrealistic interpretation of how the world works, was so confident that everybody of any decency, would think just like he does.
With that in mind, he lobbied hard to have the Liberal Government put the decision for how we should proceed into the future with Penalty Rates, to a commission of trained professionals to decide, the Fair Work Commission. An entity set up by previous Labor government I think, so with confidence he expected to see them mirror his stance, and VOWED to stand by and support, whatever they decided.
What they decided was that Bill was talking shite, and penalty rates needed to be severely changed.

Bill's promise???? Well that got a big Fek You.
Now I will take a leaf out of his book, I am sick of stating the obvious that disingenuous turds already know, but pretend no longer means anything.
So, FEK YOUS ALL.
The final word is that an umpire was appointed, it made a decision your team promised to respect, but they lied. Now they are sooking.
Sook on snowflakes, and, FEK YOU.
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
rhino
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17179
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #79 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:10pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:02pm:
I am almost too afraid to ask, but a few years ago when I was just chanting along to Labor Policy, like the dumb fek fanboys banging this Penalty Rate drum today, was I so shallow and stupid? I remember I was always a self righteous bugger, but I do not remember being this stupid.
Grendel, Longy, Soren, freekick time, sink the boot in now.
Juliar and similarly retarded fekwits, do not bother, your opinions will never impress any person with IQ's beyond double digits.

I was never impressed greatly with the prowess of most fellow travellers, at the time, but now so often they sound just like a mirror version of Juliar, just a brainless fanboy, foghorning the party line.

So, I won't waste too much energy on this, because anytime a point they cannot address is raised, they just ignore it and bang on with some equally spurious inanity. They move the goal posts so often they do not even know what direction they should even be kicking anymore.

So, keep them, they have been around for ages, end of argument.
Great argument, worked for slavery, denial of women's rights, bleeding the sick, jail homosexuals, need I go on?
Keep doing stuff because we have done it for ages passes no intellectual or moral test, it is just declaring habituation inviolate.

Bill Shorten in an astounding short sighted and unrealistic interpretation of how the world works, was so confident that everybody of any decency, would think just like he does.
With that in mind, he lobbied hard to have the Liberal Government put the decision for how we should proceed into the future with Penalty Rates, to a commission of trained professionals to decide, the Fair Work Commission. An entity set up by previous Labor government I think, so with confidence he expected to see them mirror his stance, and VOWED to stand by and support, whatever they decided.
What they decided was that Bill was talking shite, and penalty rates needed to be severely changed.

Bill's promise???? Well that got a big Fek You.
Now I will take a leaf out of his book, I am sick of stating the obvious that disingenuous turds already know, but pretend no longer means anything.
So, FEK YOUS ALL.
The final word is that an umpire was appointed, it made a decision your team promised to respect, but they lied. Now they are sooking.
Sook on snowflakes, and, FEK YOU.
Are you sure the current umpire was appointed by a previous labor Government? Its easy to get the results you want if you place an umpire who has vested interests.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 130891
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #80 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:12pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:02pm:
I am almost too afraid to ask, but a few years ago when I was just chanting along to Labor Policy, like the dumb fek fanboys banging this Penalty Rate drum today, was I so shallow and stupid? I remember I was always a self righteous bugger, but I do not remember being this stupid.
Grendel, Longy, Soren, freekick time, sink the boot in now.
Juliar and similarly retarded fekwits, do not bother, your opinions will never impress any person with IQ's beyond double digits.

I was never impressed greatly with the prowess of most fellow travellers, at the time, but now so often they sound just like a mirror version of Juliar, just a brainless fanboy, foghorning the party line.

So, I won't waste too much energy on this, because anytime a point they cannot address is raised, they just ignore it and bang on with some equally spurious inanity. They move the goal posts so often they do not even know what direction they should even be kicking anymore.


So, keep them, they have been around for ages, end of argument.
Great argument, worked for slavery, denial of women's rights, bleeding the sick, jail homosexuals,
need I go on?
Keep doing stuff because we have done it for ages passes no intellectual or moral test, it is just declaring habituation inviolate.

Bill Shorten in an astounding short sighted and unrealistic interpretation of how the world works, was so confident that everybody of any decency, would think just like he does.
With that in mind, he lobbied hard to have the Liberal Government put the decision for how we should proceed into the future with Penalty Rates, to a commission of trained professionals to decide, the Fair Work Commission. An entity set up by previous Labor government I think, so with confidence he expected to see them mirror his stance, and VOWED to stand by and support, whatever they decided.
What they decided was that Bill was talking shite, and penalty rates needed to be severely changed.

Bill's promise???? Well that got a big Fek You.
Now I will take a leaf out of his book, I am sick of stating the obvious that disingenuous turds already know, but pretend no longer means anything.
So, FEK YOUS ALL.
The final word is that an umpire was appointed, it made a decision your team promised to respect, but they lied. Now they are sooking.
Sook on snowflakes, and, FEK YOU.


Yes folks, he really is comparing penalty rates to slavery, denial of women's rights, bloodletting, and jailing homosexuals.

Moreover, he's also putting up a straw man: "Keep doing stuff because we have done it for ages".

Dear oh dear.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
mozzaok
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 6741
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: The Penalty Rate Cuts Are Not Fair
Reply #81 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 4:40pm
 
Gee MrPig, if only I cared as much as you.

I guess you never said people deserve penalty rates because they've been around for decades.
If I pretend I believe you will you just fek off?
Back to top
 

OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print