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Jihadists NOT radicalised online (Read 3552 times)
tickleandrose
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #15 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:12pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 11:44am:
tickleandrose wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 10:06am:
As I have mentioned before.  It is not so much the religion per se, however, it is the mentality and the ideology behind it.   If you look at the the terrorist groups, like JI, ISIS, and AQ.  Yes, they all have a particular violent and hardline version of religion, however, their central function is not so much spreading religion, but rather their primary aim is for geopolitical gains.  The religion is there, just so they are pervertly justify their violence, to extend their control over groups of people in a certain area. 



Yes, it can be the religion.
It is a BAD religion.

Scientology was started by a semi-failed sci-fi writer/schuckster, who was tempted to see how stupid and gullible people could be, and lived by the adage, nobody went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public.
So, Scientology is a bad religion because it's founding figure was a crook and a shyster.
Islam was started by a murdering, slave making, child raping psychopath.
How does any sane person reconcile that fact?
One way.
Very, very, very, BAD religion.
Christianity was started by anonymous people lost to history, but by basing their teachings on the Judaic Tradition they made it automatically, a BAD religion.
However, THEY had one saving grace, they made their storybook figurehead, a hippie.
"What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding", not only a great song, but a bloody great philosophy to base a religion on. Sadly their great failing is the inability to be ever able to reconcile the old with the new. The new has a bit of pretty dodgy stuff also, but not so prominently. Nearly all the horrible shite done by christians was done by using texts fallen into obscurity. The scary thing is they are just as repulsive as koranic obscenity and just need a loon to whip up a cult to start doing shite as hideous as any jihadist nutter.
That is a massive problem where so many of the anti-islam people are xians and the muslims can just call hypocrite, and the argument is lost.

Hopefully one day these nutters will ditch their make believe skyfiend(friend?) and start to live life for lifes sake.

But NEVER pretend that these bad people behave this way despite their religion, they do not.

As Hitch used to often quote, "bad people do bad things, for good people to do bad things, you need religion", or something along those lines.

So, NO, it is not political, it is religious. The 2,000 people a week travelling to syria to fight for isis are not chanting, long live Keynesian Monetary Polocy, or Praise Neo Marxist Post Modernism, they are however ALL chanting, Allah Akhbar, repeatedly, to the very last one of them.


My same arguments would apply to scientology as well.  It is a tool used by a few, to further their own agenda.  And in scientology case, its about money, and control. 

The 2000 people a week travelling to Syria, their main purpose is to join ISIS in order to carry out the organization's purpose.  Which is to create a Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.   So the main purpose, is the control of land people and money.   The foreign fighters gets paid, and rationed, just like a normal soldiers.   To justify their violence, they would use the excuse of religion. 

Mossake, the acts of murdering, slave making, and child raping are not new to this world.  It predates Islam, Christianity and Judaism.  And they also happen in areas without Ibramhim - monolithism religions.   These acts happens repeatly in history during times of regional instablility, and lawlessness.  Where the principles of law and order breaks down, and when you have a situation of surivial of the fittest, morality is often the casuality. 

I can confidently said, that if Islam never have existed, then humanity, with the right condition, can equally carrying out the same atrocity and use a different god, a different scripture.   To combat terrorism, radicalism, its not about making arrests, or bombing an area, or locking up refugees.  Its about resolving the underlying fundamentals that decayed the morality in the first place.   

On our side, we have probably the most powerful war machine in the history of mankind.  If radicalisation can be resolved by violence, and military might, then we would have won hundreds of times over already.  The fact that it is still remain, means that perhaps we have to win back the minds of the people rather than gunning them down.   
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #16 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:32pm
 
First, in this global struggle, we establish strategic hamlets... we isolate all Western and non-consenting to Islam nations from Islam - 100%.

Secondly, we isolate Islamists within the battlesphere by a campaign of strategic bombing, careful cordoning into smaller and usable chunks by the distribution of armed force, and careful preparation by disseminating offers of amnesty and sanctuary to non-combatants.

Thirdly, we cordon and search each Muslim nation piece by piece, and root out the infrastructure, and if necessary, destroy the means of sustenance employed by the Islamists.

Fourthly, we hand over all Islamists to their fellow Islamites for decent handling under Islamic law..... I'm certain they will be happy to be treated according to the law of Allah......
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tickleandrose
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #17 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:47pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:32pm:
First, in this global struggle, we establish strategic hamlets... we isolate all Western and non-consenting to Islam nations from Islam - 100%.

Secondly, we isolate Islamists within the battlesphere by a campaign of strategic bombing, careful cordoning into smaller and usable chunks by the distribution of armed force, and careful preparation by disseminating offers of amnesty and sanctuary to non-combatants.

Thirdly, we cordon and search each Muslim nation piece by piece, and root out the infrastructure, and if necessary, destroy the means of sustenance employed by the Islamists.

Fourthly, we hand over all Islamists to their fellow Islamites for decent handling under Islamic law..... I'm certain they will be happy to be treated according to the law of Allah......


Grappler, in a perfect world, this may work, but with astronomic casualities.  However, the reality is that in your so called struggle with Islam, it is still pale in comparison to struggle between the superpowers: USA, Russia and China.  In the civil war of from Libya to Yemen, from Syria, Iraq, to the graveyard of Empires Afghanistan.  You can see that majority of these conflicts that is today were the product of the cold war, the struggles of the super nations. 

This is the reason why in the past, we would fund Saddam Hussein, and then destroy him.  We would fund forces in that became Taliban, and then overthrow it.   This is why we are helping the Saudis with advance weaponary against Iranian based forces in Yemen, and then supporting Iranian forces against ISIS in Syria and Iraq.  It is a one big massive mess!  And religion is just not that much significant.
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #18 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 1:17pm
 
You miss the difference between Muslim and Islamist in my blurb... even Muslims differ over Islamism.

S'all in the fine print, innit?

Global manipulation is designed around preserving control over resources - petroleum in particular - which is still currently below cut-off point in production v known reserves and distribution.  Petroleum is projected to run out any time starting from 2035 and over the following 20 years or so, and stories spread around about estimated unexplored reserves are there to pacify the masses, by offering the opportunity to believe that things are not that bad.

People will always find a reason to believe the unbelievable.  Undecided

Pitting the various Muslims against one another is one way of ensuring they continue their ancient feuding between themselves first.
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #19 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 1:47pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:11pm:
Grendel wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 11:54am:
ISLAM is a way of life and its adherents seek a world of one religion.  It is that simple.


Yeah - but they're not radical Muslims - just Muslims who believe in radical precepts which have no place in OUR society.

Isn't that obvious from what I said?
Those "precepts" are not radical in Islam.
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #20 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 8:51am
 
Grendel wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 1:47pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:11pm:
Grendel wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 11:54am:
ISLAM is a way of life and its adherents seek a world of one religion.  It is that simple.


Yeah - but they're not radical Muslims - just Muslims who believe in radical precepts which have no place in OUR society.

Isn't that obvious from what I said?
Those "precepts" are not radical in Islam.


Yes - that was clear in that video put out by that moderate monobrow - talk about shooting yourself in your own camel toe...

"Do you beleive in killing gays?  Does that make you a radical Muslim? "

"NO-NO -NO", roared the crowd.

"Put up hands all here who think stoning to death for adultery is the right law, and jihad is right, and death is the right punishment for apostasy?"

"ALL-ALL-ALL" , raised the crowd (a few didn't but he said all anyway - talk about seeing what you want to believe.

"So none of you are radical Muslims!  Allahu Akbar!"
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #21 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 9:29am
 
Oh dear...  didn't I post video proof here?
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #22 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 10:08am
 
My 2 cents, it takes a certain type of person to condone to this type of behaviour.

The broad profile regardless of race or creed.

Generally from a poor background no job prospects no real future.

No friends or limited just like him or her, withdrawn, socially a misfit, estranged family if any at all.

Hates the world thinks it owes him or her some sort of life.

Finds comfort in drugs and alcohol, angry and short tempered, is never happy and contemplates suicide all qualities that can lead to drug addiction, crime and martyrdom.

Then of course there could be that child that saw their whole family disappear under USA lead sorties or war with the USA and want vengeance by taking their own lives along with a few of the infidel.

Last but not least stupid people with nothing between the ears that get brainwashed rather easily into any cause can be converted easily and whole heartedly believe in what they are told and about to do.

Have I Left any group out…….???
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« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2018 at 10:53am by Ajax »  

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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #23 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 10:53am
 
That doesn't really sound like the profile of radicalised youth?

Spot
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #24 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 11:37am
 
"Jihadists NOT radicalised online"

I know, they just shop for sandals and hijabs online...... Grin
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #25 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 1:53pm
 
Radicalisation, as a process that leads to Muzlim anti-social behaviour, is a Western concept that tries to explain the signicant number of atrocities committed by Muzlims in the last twenty year or so. Before that, when Hindus and Bhuddists were the brunt of the violence, the perpetrators were generally refered to as zealots, martyrs, and fanatics.

As an explanation, radicalisation is important to the Western ideals of humanism and mutliculturalism, because proponents of both philosphies did not consider that their ideas of universal human respect would show an “Archilles Heel.” And when it became obvious that something was very wrong, they simply circled their philosphical wagons, instead a dealing with the problem head on, be demanding Islam either acknowledge the validity of other cultures or not be included in a Humanist vision.

Instead, they pretend there is no problem, and that the atrocities are committed by criminals who should be dealt with in the Western court systems. This is incredibly short-sghted of  those political, and often intellectual, policy makers. And it is condescending to say the murderous religious fanatics originating in Islamic countries are somehow a fringe of those cultures. The figures are way too large to be simple criminals. Its a religious problem, and to call it radicalisation, like some form of hypnosis that makes good people turn bad, is the creation of a mythological carpet underwhich inconvenient truths can be swept, leaving multiculturalism to pat itself on the back on job well done.
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #26 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 4:04pm
 
"Radicalization" put simply is an excuse. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #27 - Jun 30th, 2018 at 6:00pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Jun 30th, 2018 at 1:53pm:
Radicalisation, as a process that leads to Muzlim anti-social behaviour, is a Western concept that tries to explain the signicant number of atrocities committed by Muzlims in the last twenty year or so. Before that, when Hindus and Bhuddists were the brunt of the violence, the perpetrators were generally refered to as zealots, martyrs, and fanatics.

As an explanation, radicalisation is important to the Western ideals of humanism and mutliculturalism, because proponents of both philosophies did not consider that their ideas of universal human respect would show an “Achilles Heel.” And when it became obvious that something was very wrong, they simply circled their philosophical wagons, instead a dealing with the problem head on, be demanding Islam either acknowledge the validity of other cultures or not be included in a Humanist vision.

Instead, they pretend there is no problem, and that the atrocities are committed by criminals who should be dealt with in the Western court systems. This is incredibly shortsighted of  those political, and often intellectual, policy makers. And it is condescending to say the murderous religious fanatics originating in Islamic countries are somehow a fringe of those cultures. The figures are way too large to be simple criminals. Its a religious problem, and to call it radicalisation, like some form of hypnosis that makes good people turn bad, is the creation of a mythological carpet under which inconvenient truths can be swept, leaving multiculturalism to pat itself on the back on job well done.


Well, I have to say I do like the way you have expressed your views there, IV, ( I love that abbreviation, naturally Roll Eyes)
I recounted here numerous times the experiences of the people living in Iran at the time of the Khomeini revolution. No radicalised people then, just Muslims, neighbours and people they had considered friends, turning on them like rabid dogs, and only escaping with their lives and bodies intact through their own resources.
Apologists promote the rhetoric that if we had just been nicer, kinder, more understanding, we could have all held hands and sung folk songs together.

Islam is like a Volcano, it may not always be erupting, but beneath the surface, out of sight of what we can see, it remains active, a threat, just waiting to blow.
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #28 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 2:33am
 
Grendel wrote on Jun 30th, 2018 at 9:29am:
Oh dear...  didn't I post video proof here?


Ummm - I'm agreeing with you....

They're not radicals - they just live radical..... no difference.
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Re: Jihadists NOT radicalised online
Reply #29 - Jul 1st, 2018 at 7:19am
 
Gandalf once tried to tell us that alienation is the cause of Islamic terrorism.

Quote:
As I have mentioned before.  It is not so much the religion per se, however, it is the mentality and the ideology behind it.


What distinction are you trying to make here?

Quote:
If you look at the the terrorist groups, like JI, ISIS, and AQ.  Yes, they all have a particular violent and hardline version of religion, however, their central function is not so much spreading religion, but rather their primary aim is for geopolitical gains.


That's how Islam spread.

Quote:
My same arguments would apply to scientology as well.


The guy who started scientology did not do so by slaughtering thousands of people and imposing his views with a threat of violence.

Quote:
The 2000 people a week travelling to Syria, their main purpose is to join ISIS in order to carry out the organization's purpose.  Which is to create a Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.   So the main purpose, is the control of land people and money.


Just like Muhammad did.

Quote:
The foreign fighters gets paid, and rationed, just like a normal soldiers.


Are you saying that because ISIS does not let them starve to death they are not religious warriors?

Quote:
Mossake, the acts of murdering, slave making, and child raping are not new to this world.  It predates Islam, Christianity and Judaism.  And they also happen in areas without Ibramhim - monolithism religions.   These acts happens repeatly in history during times of regional instablility, and lawlessness.  Where the principles of law and order breaks down, and when you have a situation of surivial of the fittest, morality is often the casuality.
 

Islam is bringing slavery back, thanks to ISIS. It was because of Islam that slavery was never completely abolished. It is because of Islam that so many middle eastern nations have trouble establishing an age of consent or punishing rapists, or stamping out incest. Islam brings the darkest parts of human history along with it.

Quote:
I can confidently said, that if Islam never have existed, then humanity, with the right condition, can equally carrying out the same atrocity and use a different god, a different scripture.


Or maybe we would have ended slavery a thousand years ago. Islam locked most of western civilisation into backwardness. What was for 9000 years the most advanced civilisation on earth is now the most backwards.

Quote:
On our side, we have probably the most powerful war machine in the history of mankind.  If radicalisation can be resolved by violence, and military might, then we would have won hundreds of times over already.  The fact that it is still remain, means that perhaps we have to win back the minds of the people rather than gunning them down.
   

By offering excuses for totalitarian ideologies?
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