I am not sure   whats ethical here.....after all a doctor can only take his patients word for it....if the patient is lying to get the medication  isnt that the patients /addicts fault????????...

and what is a doctor meant to do.??? can he just turn round and say no I am not giving your this anymore....go away!..

some people have less tolerance to pain than others..

whos to judge???.....

Imrah wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 5:54pm:




it can be addictive   when bought over the counter there is no way of knowing how many some are taking.......taken  with alcohol I believe it can be down right dangerous....

I cant take it because of meds I am on.....but not everyone knows that   codeine  in larger doses is the problem......a lot of the decent folks you mention   do not realise it is at the end of the day a drug...

the govt does have a duty of care imrah... I would rather they play safe than sorry...

cods wrote on Jun 25^th, 2018 at 9:25am:

Good morning Cods.  Happy Monday.  I hope your new week is off to a good start.  Thanks again for our chat.  Thanks also Sir Spot for your informative reply.

First, I wish to point out that there is usually one person who knows how much codeine they have taken, and that is the one with the mouth that they put it in, for whatever reason. 

Indeed codeine is a derivative of the opium poppy as far as I know, and it was featured in the movie Midnight Express about a Turkish prison where codeine was a last resort if not the only resort, and if used for chronic mental pain, it is known to become addictive, because mental pain is only treated temporarily with a drug, and so the drug will be craved until external factors change to reduce the mental pain, not necessarily alleviating the addiction.  This is my opinion based on experience.  I am not addicted to anything unless I am in pain of some kind, and find something to overcome the pain, eg. beer.

So the question comes down to whether adults can be trusted to make a decision for themselves in their own best interests, being well enough informed of the addictive component in codeine.  This means only use codeine as a last resort.  If it is a mild headache, give it an hour and if pain persists, take a dispirin or mild, non-opioid pain killer.

Bear in mind that adults are assumed to have the common sense to vote in elections.  Without a vaild reason, it is in my opinion a little on the totalitarian side to take away a citizen's right to do what they think is best for themselves, providing there is a nett gain for them and no harm to others.

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It is interesting that you mention codeine and alcohol in combination, because in my experience 6mg of codeine has about the same effect on me as 750ml of beer, as far as awareness and coordination is concerned.  I would not drive a car after more than a slow bottle of beer, and although it is quite legal, I would not drive a car after any codeine if possible, and if it must be, then no more than 12mg; two tablets.  I have taken codeine tablets for pain at different times over the past thirty years and believe I have learned somewhat about the drowsiness that it causes.  In that way, codeine is likely as dangerous as alcohol behind the wheel.

In conclusion, the duty of care is a slippery slope.  I am certain that it should never be sold OTC to children, for sure.  For adults, considering that the vast majority of us do not become addicted to codeine, the duty of care should, in my opinion, not be such a broad measure as to ban codeine sales over the counter to sane adults, because the few people, (reportedly 300 last year in Australia), who will be less likely to overdose if they are unable to procure an alternative on the black market, do not amount to as much benefit in total, as the thousands of responsible people who will suffer.  This is what the article is about.  Take away the legal OTC method of coping with pain, and most people who experience chronic or sporadic pain will explore alternative sources.

Oh, lastly.  I notice now that taking 12mg of codeine that comes in Mersyndol tablets will cause a mild stomach upheaval, and if I then take another two tablets inside the space of four hours or so, then something which has been recently added to the tablets will cause me to feel like vomiting.  This is IMHO a reasonable compromise to stop addicts overdosing on a dozen codeine tablets.  The stomach can't handle it. 

Thanks for the opportunity for an epic rant on a Monday.

When I had an operation 24 years ago, I went through the recovery period with painkiller after painkiller every 4 hours. Then I found out that the painkillers were something like $10 a pill. Those painkillers were worth it. But my parents had to pay for them out of their own pocket. The nurse suggested that I go with the paracetamols for the final stages. Dad told me how much it set them back at the end of the hospital stay. Had I known, I would have gone with the cheaper option.

People needing opiods obviously have an addiction. If they can't recover from a bit of pain after a few weeks, then they are in need of some remedy that does not involve painkillers.