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Kim and Don (Read 7418 times)
Gordon
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #15 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:48pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:37pm:



So what. That's politicking, just like the Democrats are now screaming that the meeting legitimises the NK regime.

Sanctions have not worked. A new approach was required.

Would you prefer war or a meeting?
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #16 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm
 
NK was in a corner with sanctions, regime change was a shade away from happening.
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #17 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:00pm
 
rhino wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm:
NK was in a corner with sanctions, regime change was a shade away from happening.


Yup, I don't give Don the full credit for making it happen. It's actually thanks to the Chinese for cutting off oil.

The next logical step was for a meeting at this level, I just can't understand why the Trump haters are against progress?
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #18 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:02pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:37pm:



So what. That's politicking, just like the Democrats are now screaming that the meeting legitimises the NK regime.

Sanctions have not worked. A new approach was required.


Would you prefer war or a meeting?


Those aren't the only two options.

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Gordon
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #19 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:02pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:37pm:



So what. That's politicking, just like the Democrats are now screaming that the meeting legitimises the NK regime.

Sanctions have not worked. A new approach was required.


Would you prefer war or a meeting?


Those aren't the only two options.



Are you at least hopeful the meeting will produce something meaningful, or would you prefer there is no progress or even gets worse so you have more of a case against Trump?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #20 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:07pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
rhino wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm:
NK was in a corner with sanctions, regime change was a shade away from happening.


Yup, I don't give Don the full credit for making it happen. It's actually thanks to the Chinese for cutting off oil.

The next logical step was for a meeting at this level, I just can't understand why the Trump haters are
against progress?


There has been no progress.

All we've seen is "a dictator who has ordered the murder of his own family members, and who oversees a gulag comparable to those of Hitler and Stalin, ... able to parade on the global stage as a legitimate statesman, praised by the president of the United States as 'very talented' and worthy of trust."

Dear oh dear.

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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #21 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:10pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
I just can't understand why the Trump haters are against progress?




What progress?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Gordon
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #22 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:16pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:10pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
I just can't understand why the Trump haters are against progress?




What progress?


We're at meeting day plus 1.

The fact a meet took place is progress.
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #23 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:22pm
 
Obama offered to meet but was attacked by the GOP and others, whats changed?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #24 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:23pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:10pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
I just can't understand why the Trump haters are against progress?




What progress?


A dictator who has ordered the murder of his own family members, and who oversees a gulag comparable to those of Hitler and Stalin, has been able to parade on the global stage as a legitimate statesman, praised by the president of the United States as 'very talented' and worthy of trust.

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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #25 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:23pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 11:24am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 10:59am:
cods wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 10:58pm:
yes well done... this is only day 1 gordy   it could take a year or two   

but well done to Trump ... now let the HEROs wallop him..as you say "Obama"  who did he meet????



>....gillard...  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Kim’s gulags, public executions, and the planned starvation of his people have now all been legitimised on the world stage, thanks to Trump.

Why do you see this as worthy of praise, cods?


Exactly. Simply by meeting him alone gives him the legitimacy he wanted for his regime - which is why all previous US Presidents have been avoiding him (and his forbears). But not only that, Trump talks about him in all these glowing terms and how confident he is of Kim doing the right thing (de facto giving him undeserved status as honourable and trustworthy). And that wasn't bad enough, he's given the only concession - to abandon war games with South Korea describing them as "provocative". He literally got nothing in return.

I'm beginning to wonder if Trump is the worst negotiator in all history.


It was obvious those who hated all of Trump's policies (let alone the man, himself) would find some way to denigrate any progress made on NK. There was Gandalf whinging about peace as if he really cares about anything other than the Religion Peace, which is still on its sanctimonious murder spree.

There is no precedent set as Peckery claims. The USA has been dealing with the despots of the USSR, Arabia and South America for yonks.

There appears to be two factors controlling this thaw in relations. Which came first, I don't remember.

1. NK's underground test fascility began to crumble, leaving them with an enormous task to keep their program.

2. The claim to be able to hit the USA with nukes gave the that country a legitimate reason for a preemptive military operation, if not a strike. This seems to have been taken seriously by the Chinese who summoned their ugly cousin to Beijing. They would have been very polite and offered Kim their hope for his many sons. But if they would have made it clear, if there was going to be a war with the US, it would be the Chinese who decide when and where. To sweeten the ultimatum, they would probably have pointed out how much better it would be for Kim to exploit cheap communist labour on the world market.
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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
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cods
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #26 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:25pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:07pm:
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
rhino wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:54pm:
NK was in a corner with sanctions, regime change was a shade away from happening.


Yup, I don't give Don the full credit for making it happen. It's actually thanks to the Chinese for cutting off oil.

The next logical step was for a meeting at this level, I just can't understand why the Trump haters are
against progress?


There has been no progress.

All we've seen is "a dictator who has ordered the murder of his own family members, and who oversees a gulag comparable to those of Hitler and Stalin, ... able to parade on the global stage as a legitimate statesman, praised by the president of the United States as 'very talented' and worthy of trust."

Dear oh dear.




and all the lefties whinged and complained bitterly about Hussein being given the chop.....another who got rid of family members at the drop of a hat...as well as thousands   just because he didnt like their religion...



what do you suggest we do... WAR?... oooops   isnt that against lefties principles?

..... or we can sit back and let Kim fire rockets at us...

what else!!! oh thats right sanctions that usually only affect the people and not the hierarchy ... Roll Eyes


anything is better than talking and a handshake ...why?

why are you against peace?

why dont you want to stop a madman killing people????...


WHY?


what have you got against peace at any price????????

nothing will bring back those that are dead     but it could stop more happening'

why are you against that?>
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Gordon
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #27 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:29pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:22pm:
Obama offered to meet but was attacked by the GOP and others, whats changed?


The ability to land a nuke in USA, tougher Chinese sanctions.
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cods
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #28 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:29pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:23pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 11:24am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 10:59am:
cods wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 10:58pm:
yes well done... this is only day 1 gordy   it could take a year or two   

but well done to Trump ... now let the HEROs wallop him..as you say "Obama"  who did he meet????



>....gillard...  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Kim’s gulags, public executions, and the planned starvation of his people have now all been legitimised on the world stage, thanks to Trump.

Why do you see this as worthy of praise, cods?


Exactly. Simply by meeting him alone gives him the legitimacy he wanted for his regime - which is why all previous US Presidents have been avoiding him (and his forbears). But not only that, Trump talks about him in all these glowing terms and how confident he is of Kim doing the right thing (de facto giving him undeserved status as honourable and trustworthy). And that wasn't bad enough, he's given the only concession - to abandon war games with South Korea describing them as "provocative". He literally got nothing in return.

I'm beginning to wonder if Trump is the worst negotiator in all history.


It was obvious those who hated all of Trump's policies (let alone the man, himself) would find some way to denigrate any progress made on NK. There was Gandalf whinging about peace as if he really cares about anything other than the Religion Peace, which is still on its sanctimonious murder spree.

There is no precedent set as Peckery claims. The USA has been dealing with the despots of the USSR, Arabia and South America for yonks.

There appears to be two factors controlling this thaw in relations. Which came first, I don't remember.

1. NK's underground test fascility began to crumble, leaving them with an enormous task to keep their program.

2. The claim to be able to hit the USA with nukes gave the that country a legitimate reason for a preemptive military operation, if not a strike. This seems to have been taken seriously by the Chinese who summoned their ugly cousin to Beijing. They would have been very polite and offered Kim their hope for his many sons. But if they would have made it clear, if there was going to be a war with the US, it would be the Chinese who decide when and where. To sweeten the ultimatum, they would probably have pointed out how much better it would be for Kim to exploit cheap communist labour on the world market.



like all leties  they have selective memories.... trouble is we havnt... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I dont know if Trump is the best man for this job..

but at least he stood up to this... despot... and got a reaction...   he told Kim where to go and called off the meet... and Kim was the one that went begging for it to continue...

to me that says a lot.......Kim had more to lose than Trump....

this is a brave thing to do...

Bringing down the Wall wasnt easy either   but it did happen...

and yes it means doing business  with people who do not have a lot in the way of ethics......but its better than the other choices...
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cods
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Re: Kim and Don
Reply #29 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:30pm
 
Gordon wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:22pm:
Obama offered to meet but was attacked by the GOP and others, whats changed?


The ability to land a nuke in USA, tougher Chinese sanctions.



when did obama offer to meet Kim??>

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