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Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan (Read 4497 times)
Unforgiven
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #90 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:50pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
That's total crap Grappler. SAS committed atrocities. There is no political consent for atrocities.


Accusations and assertions are not facts.


Why do you always deny the truth Grappler? There wouldn't even be an inquiry if it wasn't for the media.

It takes the media to expose crimes of the SAS because the officers are complicit in the coverup.

From the original citation:

Quote:
The allegations, which have circulated among insiders for years, have now been corroborated by various sources across the globe during a six-month Fairfax Media investigation.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #91 - Jun 12th, 2018 at 10:33pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:50pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
That's total crap Grappler. SAS committed atrocities. There is no political consent for atrocities.


Accusations and assertions are not facts.


Why do you always deny the truth Grappler? There wouldn't even be an inquiry if it wasn't for the media.

It takes the media to expose crimes of the SAS because the officers are complicit in the coverup.

From the original citation:

Quote:
The allegations, which have circulated among insiders for years, have now been corroborated by various sources across the globe during a six-month Fairfax Media investigation.


Yeah, well that's brilliant, Rube - the allegations have been corroborated by whom exactly?  A Fairfax investigation?

What constitutes this corroboration?  What is involved in it and how viable is it?  How will it stand up to examination?

Stop jumping ahead of yourself while playing one man leap-frog.


ADDS:-  For those who claim to be 'liberal' and to have a 'liberal' education - there are an amazing number of the same who leap to condemn on accusation without reference to fact, and to accord absolute right to be innocent until proven guilty beyond ANY reasonable doubt as only the 'right' of some 'oppressed' social group, such as women, Muslims and similar, and Indigenous. 

I suppose those who throw out that line are some kind of Antifa.   Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2018 at 12:37am by Ye Grappler »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Unforgiven
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #92 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:01am
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 10:33pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:50pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
That's total crap Grappler. SAS committed atrocities. There is no political consent for atrocities.


Accusations and assertions are not facts.


Why do you always deny the truth Grappler? There wouldn't even be an inquiry if it wasn't for the media.

It takes the media to expose crimes of the SAS because the officers are complicit in the coverup.

From the original citation:

Quote:
The allegations, which have circulated among insiders for years, have now been corroborated by various sources across the globe during a six-month Fairfax Media investigation.


Yeah, well that's brilliant, Rube - the allegations have been corroborated by whom exactly?  A Fairfax investigation?

What constitutes this corroboration?  What is involved in it and how viable is it?  How will it stand up to examination?

Stop jumping ahead of yourself while playing one man leap-frog.


ADDS:-  For those who claim to be 'liberal' and to have a 'liberal' education - there are an amazing number of the same who leap to condemn on accusation without reference to fact, and to accord absolute right to be innocent until proven guilty beyond ANY reasonable doubt as only the 'right' of some 'oppressed' social group, such as women, Muslims and similar, and Indigenous. 

I suppose those who throw out that line are some kind of Antifa.   Roll Eyes


Corroborated by various sources across the globe. That implies Afghan witnesses.

There is also a dead Afghan's prosthetic leg that the SAS are using as a drinking vessel.

The lady doth protest too much methinks.
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Rhino
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #93 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:05am
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 10:33pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:50pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
That's total crap Grappler. SAS committed atrocities. There is no political consent for atrocities.


Accusations and assertions are not facts.


Why do you always deny the truth Grappler? There wouldn't even be an inquiry if it wasn't for the media.

It takes the media to expose crimes of the SAS because the officers are complicit in the coverup.

From the original citation:

Quote:
The allegations, which have circulated among insiders for years, have now been corroborated by various sources across the globe during a six-month Fairfax Media investigation.


Yeah, well that's brilliant, Rube - the allegations have been corroborated by whom exactly?  A Fairfax investigation?

What constitutes this corroboration?  What is involved in it and how viable is it?  How will it stand up to examination?

Stop jumping ahead of yourself while playing one man leap-frog.


ADDS:-  For those who claim to be 'liberal' and to have a 'liberal' education - there are an amazing number of the same who leap to condemn on accusation without reference to fact, and to accord absolute right to be innocent until proven guilty beyond ANY reasonable doubt as only the 'right' of some 'oppressed' social group, such as women, Muslims and similar, and Indigenous. 

I suppose those who throw out that line are some kind of Antifa.   Roll Eyes
You yourself condemn police officers without proof, glass houses.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #94 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 2:52am
 
Rhino wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:05am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 10:33pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:50pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
That's total crap Grappler. SAS committed atrocities. There is no political consent for atrocities.


Accusations and assertions are not facts.


Why do you always deny the truth Grappler? There wouldn't even be an inquiry if it wasn't for the media.

It takes the media to expose crimes of the SAS because the officers are complicit in the coverup.

From the original citation:

Quote:
The allegations, which have circulated among insiders for years, have now been corroborated by various sources across the globe during a six-month Fairfax Media investigation.


Yeah, well that's brilliant, Rube - the allegations have been corroborated by whom exactly?  A Fairfax investigation?

What constitutes this corroboration?  What is involved in it and how viable is it?  How will it stand up to examination?

Stop jumping ahead of yourself while playing one man leap-frog.


ADDS:-  For those who claim to be 'liberal' and to have a 'liberal' education - there are an amazing number of the same who leap to condemn on accusation without reference to fact, and to accord absolute right to be innocent until proven guilty beyond ANY reasonable doubt as only the 'right' of some 'oppressed' social group, such as women, Muslims and similar, and Indigenous. 

I suppose those who throw out that line are some kind of Antifa.   Roll Eyes
You yourself condemn police officers without proof, glass houses.


Where did I say all police officers?  My uncle was a very senior police officer in what was the crime capital of NSW, and he was held to be 'the honest cop' by both the police force and all those with whom he ever came in contact.

Every decent police officer should rightfully condemn any wrongdoer.... and in view of the honour of the position ... especially wrongdoers amongst his/her own.

Police culture has got to be dismantled, lest we run the risk of another NAZI state, or one in which the rule of law has broken down entirely and people are convicted on accusation, rather than on provable facts.

Can you argue that all honest police would not be best served by an honest force?  Or would you rather that remorseless and dishonest psychopaths rule the roost?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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mozzaok
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #95 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 12:46pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 6:42pm:
mozzaok wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
Gnads wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 1:18pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 1:13pm:
There are a lot of defenders of war crimes in this string. The same people who condemn atrocities by others excuse the atrocities by the Australian military as trivial matters.

Post WW2 the allies were responsible for the death of 1 million German POWs and millions of German civilians.

I am not aware of any allied troops who were prosecuted for war crimes.


Bullshyte  Angry


Oh that it were BS, but sadly, it is not. Forget you not, that Uncle Joe Stalin was one of the allied leaders, and the number of Germans murdered, tortured, and raped, under his direction, was indeed multiple millions. Oh, if only those pesky Russkis could be the sole source of post war barbarism, we could take some moral high ground, but alas, do your own research, and you will find, that US leaders, "FORCED" US soldiers to keep plain old Wermacht soldiers,( NOT SS scum, or filthy death squads, but just soldiers, that the men on the ground knew, were very little different to them), in open fields, behind wire, without shelter, on starvation rations, without following even the most basic rules of the Geneva Convention. Do your own research and find out just how many died in the custody of US and British forces, and get back to us with whether or not you still call BS. Please. Sadly, not our proudest hour.


Were the Russians really allies?

They had the removal of Germans from their territory at the forefront .. but at the end of the war what did they do?

As for German soldiers dying in detention after the capitulation for one reason or the other ... more was done for them than done for those they imprisoned & murdered in their death camps.


Actually, NO IT WASN'T.


As far as war just getting dirtier and more horrible, as crazyone-B23 said( I try not to personally engage with the absolute loons on here), that is also false.
WW1 was the height of barbaric horror at the behest of the directors, with the gas attacks.
After that it was agreed that chemical and biological weapons would not be used.

Crazy old Hitler, who everybody loves to call the monster of monsters, did not deploy nerve gas or anthrax or the other worse things at his disposal, in a last ditch effort to save the day.
Watch the Jeremy Clarkson doco about his father in laws WW2 exploits, and how after days of torrid fighting, surrounded and outnumbered by the Wermacht(that is the name of the regular German Army, you know the millions who were just soldiers, doing what they were ordered, like the poor sods on the other sides) the allies were in a bad way. The germans called a truce, and offered the allies a day off fighting, to evacuate their wounded, and bury their dead. Sound like the nazi fanatics of hollywood legend?
WW2 had some very barbaric acts, but the fire bombing of dresden, and the atomic bombs on japan were right up there for pretty freakin terrible. Not a lot of lily whites to be found.

Seeing the disingenuous scum from the press, seeking to demonise guys who have had to endure more than a poorly stocked mini bar when away on assignment, does not fill me with glee, and the pricks lining up to stick the boot in would be the first to scream "shoot him, shoot him, shoot him now" {a la Daffy Duck}), if ever a Taliban, or Terrorist got anywhere near them.

So whilst rules of engagement need to be as humane as possible, you cannot release a Tiger and then bitch and moan when it scratches.
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Gnads
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #96 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:35pm
 
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/06/article-written-by-former-sasr-trooper-i...

Quote:
Article written by former SASR trooper in response to recent allegations against the Regiment
Thursday, 14 June 2018
The writer wants to remain anonymous, the way the SAS likes things. 
He served 14 years in the ADF, 9 years as a Royal Australian Regiment infantryman and 5 years with the Special Air Service Regiment.

The Special Air Service Regiment seeks out and destroys Australia’s most dangerous enemies.
It targets the leaders of terror organisations who are shielded by suicidal, heavily armed Jihadis embedded amongst co-operative “civilians”.
Our enemies don’t like us and they do their best to kill us with no moral restraint and complete impunity.  The Mujahideen don’t have much use for a Human Rights Commission.
The SAS cannot fight enemies like that by adhering to normal Western moral standards. If we did, it would be leveraged as a weakness by the enemy.  We have to keep them guessing about our limits.  I wouldn’t deploy if I was working with blokes who operated like predictable Mr Nice Guys.
The ADF is currently conducting a full-blown enquiry into "rumours of possible breaches of the laws of armed conflict” by Australian special forces in Afghanistan.  We are alleged to have operated with “disregard for human life and dignity”.  Fair enough.  I don’t know one bloke I served with who has a high regard for the lives of terrorists.  There’s nothing dignified about IEDs and their fighting methods either.
We are not sent out to deliver a personal dignity entitlement to our enemies.  We go out to kill them.
Right now the Chief of Defence Force is doing immense damage to our troops deployed in Afghanistan.
Australian taxpayers are paying for ads in the Afghani press encouraging Afghanis to dob in Australian troops for war crimes. How idiotic is that?  What a propaganda gold mine;  and you can be certain the enemy will be using it against us.
The Australian enquiry will receive heaps of responses from the enemy, let’s face it they are embedded among the local Afghans.
And what will it achieve?  How do you think Australian troops will respond to allegations against them from the enemy? This might be difficult for outsiders to hear, but even if boundaries have been overstepped, unless the entire patrol turned on each other there will be little chance of any evidence to support any claims made by the enemy or Afghan civilians.
SAS troops obey orders.  We go where we’re ordered to go and act as we’re ordered to act.  There’s no allegations that I know of that say SAS troops have failed to obey orders.  Whatever’s been done has been the work of a highly disciplined team of professional, accountable soldiers operating within their own internal chain of command - and that goes all the way to the top.  Smiling politicians are always on hand to get their photo taken and congratulate us on our results.  Well God help any ADF leadership that tries to hang a few young troopers out to dry.
So what are we stuck with?
•   A bombardment of allegations that will ALL have to be investigated at taxpayer expense.
•   SAS unit members taken away from their duties to “help” the investigation and for interviews with investigators.
•   The usual bags of tax payers money given to the enemy in compensation for alleged wrongdoing by us - even if unproven
•   SAS tactics and operational security compromised by our own Government and Defence force due to a call for an open investigation and for transparency from left wing journalists to mention a few.
•   Resentments amongst the SAS members and as is common practice much more secrecy, which is a certainty at the grass root levels.
The ADF’s investigation into the rumours has already been leaked to Fairfax and the ABC who've made the leaked material public.
As a result of Fairfax and the ABC’s reports, the Russians have now joined in to make life more difficult for us in the field. 
On Saturday the Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement about “The crimes committed by Australian troops in Afghanistan”.
Using the ABC and Fairfax’s reports, the Russian statement said Australians have engaged in “systematic, unauthorized and groundless use of weapons, particularly against  civilians.”  It quotes the ABC as the source for “shocking facts about cold-blooded murders committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan”.
Total bullshit, created by our taxpayer funded broadcaster to be used by our enemies against us. 
The ABC is always going on about Russia and scandals.  Looks like they've made one of their own.
There are plenty of problems in Australian society.
There is definitely a problem in the ADF. 
But it’s not the war fighters.   
It’s our leadership and the tone they set - from the PM down.
Signed, John Anon


Stick that in your traitorous piehole Un4.  Roll Eyes
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Unforgiven
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #97 - Jun 19th, 2018 at 9:30pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jun 19th, 2018 at 8:35pm:
Stick that in your traitorous piehole Un4.


It appears to be a guilty plea by the author.
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Gnads
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Re: Australian SAS committed atrocities in Afghanistan
Reply #98 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 7:59am
 
Seems you wouldn't know your ahole from your elbow.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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