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Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies. (Read 19276 times)
lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #120 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
I am merely suggesting we let both the supply and demand side be guided by rational economics, not hysterical scaremongering about some imaginary need for baseload power.


You mean like renewables and their subsidies are rational economics? They have far higher subsidies than coal. Wink
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #121 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:06pm
 
No Lee, I am opposed to subsidies, for both.

The concept of baseload power is an example of what can go wrong when the government runs an industry. It is a demand side response to the only service that was on offer. People see that response and conclude, incorrectly, that it is the way the market "needs" to be. The industry has moved on, but the politics lags by a decade or two, fueled by ignorance and scaremongering.
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lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #122 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
The industry has moved on, but the politics lags by a decade or two, fueled by ignorance and scaremongering.



Yep. you can "rely" on renewables if you have no manufacturing industry. we haven't reached tat point yet.
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #123 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
The industry has moved on, but the politics lags by a decade or two, fueled by ignorance and scaremongering.



Yep. you can "rely" on renewables if you have no manufacturing industry. we haven't reached tat point yet.


Manufacturing does not need a steady constant supply of electricity. A lot of them only operate while the sun shines. Again, your concept of manufacturing being reliant on baseload is your misunderstanding of the old industry. Manufacturing is far more nimble than retail consumption. A lot of the ones that run overnight only do so because "baseload" resulted in an oversupply at that time, and hence very cheap wholesale prices. It does not "need" to be that way - it's just your hysterical, emotional over-reaction to change.
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lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #124 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
Manufacturing does not need a steady constant supply of electricity. A lot of them only operate while the sun shines.



If you are running some kind of metallurgy operation you need to run the kilns non stop. Otherwise they take valuable hours to get to operating temperature.

freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
It does not "need" to be that way - it's just your hysterical, emotional over-reaction to change.



More like your hysterical reaction to the fact that in some circumstances it does have to be that way.
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lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #125 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:45pm
 
Btw-

freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
The concept of baseload power is an example of what can go wrong when the government runs an industry.



And yet the labor party is against selling the power infrastructure, citing "increased costs".
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TheFunPolice
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #126 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:50pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 2:33pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 2:23pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 2:12pm:
Quote:
So tens thousands of diesel generators all over the country instead of base-load, fkk brilliant idea and fkk cheap too.


We already have them. Plus, millions of diesel vehicles on our streets (because they are cheap). You are the one who insisted hospitals would go dark if the power went out, not me. Not everyone is going to get a diesel generator, because the vast majority of consumers do not actually need it. My only point is that baseload is a meaningless concept. No electricity supply is 100% reliable. No consumer is 100% predictable or consistent. It just looks that way because the government has historically set the price, and both consumers and suppliers responded to the money. Electricity will respond to supply and demand pressures in the same way the potato trade does, and it is only the simple minded misrepresentations of climate change deniers that imagine it is fundamentally different.



Yeah that was some one else genius.  Grin Grin Grin


We may thousands of diesel generator floating around but that are not supporting our electrical grid to the extent needed to support a bullsh1t intermittent power supply system you are suggesting.

No sane country in the world would even think about doing something so fkken stupid.


Big Ol doesn't know what baseload is: how many years have we been telling him this now?



You can't remember to take your medications, how many years have we been telling you this now?


Big ol can't remember when he last shot someone to 'prove' a point  Cheesy

Big ol can't remember when he last shot someone to 'prove' a point  Cheesy


Big ol can't remember when he last shot someone to 'prove' a point  Cheesy








Big ol can't remember when he last shot someone to 'prove' a point  Cheesyi






Big ol can't remember when he last shot someone to 'prove' a point  Cheesy



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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #127 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:52pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:43pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
Manufacturing does not need a steady constant supply of electricity. A lot of them only operate while the sun shines.



If you are running some kind of metallurgy operation you need to run the kilns non stop. Otherwise they take valuable hours to get to operating temperature.

freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
It does not "need" to be that way - it's just your hysterical, emotional over-reaction to change.



More like your hysterical reaction to the fact that in some circumstances it does have to be that way.

The price goes up: free markets hey brother  Cheesy
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #128 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:53pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:43pm:
[quote author=freediver link=1528478927/123#123 date=1529126157]
Manufacturing does not need a steady constant supply of electricity. A lot of them only operate while the sun shines.



If you are running some kind of metallurgy operation you need to run the kilns non stop. Otherwise they take valuable hours to get to operating temperature.

freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
It does not "need" to be that way - it's just your hysterical, emotional over-reaction to change.



More like your hysterical reaction to the fact that
in some circumstances it does have to be that way.[/
quote]
In some circumstances it may have to be costed more in the market place?
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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TheFunPolice
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #129 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:56pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
The industry has moved on, but the politics lags by a decade or two, fueled by ignorance and scaremongering.



Yep. you can "rely" on renewables if you have no manufacturing industry. we haven't reached tat point yet.

You outlined the world 'rely' for some reason: why?

Oh, and who is 'we' btw?

Yes, Mr Charlatan: we all know who you are broseph!  Wink Wink
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #130 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 4:16pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:56pm:
You outlined the world 'rely' for some reason: why?



Because renewables are intermittent, or haven't you learned that yet?

TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:56pm:
Oh, and who is 'we' btw?



Australia.
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #131 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 4:26pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:43pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
Manufacturing does not need a steady constant supply of electricity. A lot of them only operate while the sun shines.



If you are running some kind of metallurgy operation you need to run the kilns non stop. Otherwise they take valuable hours to get to operating temperature.

freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
It does not "need" to be that way - it's just your hysterical, emotional over-reaction to change.



More like your hysterical reaction to the fact that in some circumstances it does have to be that way.


What percentage of the demand side would you say needs true baseload power?
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lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #132 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 4:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 4:26pm:
What percentage of the demand side would you say needs true baseload power?



So after initially denying the need for baseload power you want to quantify it? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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freediver
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #133 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 6:20pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 4:28pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 4:26pm:
What percentage of the demand side would you say needs true baseload power?



So after initially denying the need for baseload power you want to quantify it? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


I still insist it is a meaningless concept. Now I want you to realise that you do also.
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lee
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Re: Dying coal industry, not so fast there, ladies.
Reply #134 - Jun 16th, 2018 at 6:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 16th, 2018 at 6:20pm:
I still insist it is a meaningless concept.



yeah we don't need no stinkin' reliability of power supply. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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