Australian Politics Forum - ABC proves that Muslims are lazy

polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #75 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 2:05pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 10:14pm:

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This clarification is not good for the racist hate-mongers. 56% of muslims are not on welfare, which was the central message of Anning's slur.

How about what he actually said?

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If he was "on the money", he would have provided sufficient evidence for his BS insinuation that 56% of muslims are on welfare.

He did not, because that is not what he said. But the ABC did give the evidence. They clarified that 56% of working age Muslims do not in fact have a job. Thanks, ABC.

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He didn't even come close - and the fact check exposed his slur as a vicious racist lie.

They exposed it as nothing more than a technicality - only misleading if you know and apply the definition for the term he used that the ABS does. Which is of course why you are lying about what he said.

Hillarious FD.

This is what he actually said:

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It's no coincidence 56 per cent of Australia's working-age Muslims are not in the labour force.

Free welfare and public housing attracts the very type of migrants, transnational parasites who travel not in search of opportunity, but in search of a free ride at other’s expense.

Somehow FD thinks that ranting on about freeloaders in the very sentence after he says its "no coincidence" a large proportion of muslims are not working - is somehow not insinuating that all these muslims are such free loaders.

But then again, this is the same guy who concludes from the whole debate that its somehow proven that "muslims are lazy".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #76 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 2:26pm The ABC did not disprove that claim, and you cannot either. What they did "disprove" was a highly technical error that relied on definitions from the ABS. If someone who was unfamiliar with those definitions attempted to interpret his statement, they would probably get it correct.
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Auggie

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #77 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 2:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 2:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 2:21pm:

So refusing to work with non-Muslims isn't laziness?

There were several reasons listed in that quote of yours FD, but not one of them was "refusing to work with non-Muslims". Every one of those reasons could still apply if the women were in an all-muslim environment.

In any case, why would any of those reasons necessarily equate to "laziness"? Would they be willing to work if the employer catered for their religious requirements (not saying they should)? Are they being forced against their will by their husbands or fathers to reject the work conditions? These are the questions you need to be able to answer before definitively concluding they are "lazy".

And how on earth do you interpret "women being pressured to stay at home" as laziness?

The word in this case is a useless pejorative that serves no other purpose than to stir up prejudice. It is, if you like, a "lazy" way of avoiding the actual issues at play.

So, you've essentially admitted in the paragraph that the majority of Muslims migrants to Australia have difficulty integrating and obtaining work.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #78 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:25pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 1^st, 2018 at 2:45pm:

So, you've essentially admitted in the paragraph that the majority of Muslims migrants to Australia have difficulty integrating and obtaining work.

Not in the least. I am not even addressing the issue of integration. I am addressing FD's outrageous bigoted slur encapsulated in the thread title. Surely you agree its an outrageous and bigoted slur?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #79 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:27pm freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2018 at 2:26pm: The ABC did not disprove that claim, and you cannot either. And therefore, ipso facto, its "proven" that muslims en mass are "lazy"?
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #80 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:28pm I asked you whether you would say that Muslims are not lazy. I don't think you responded.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #81 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:46pm

Probably because its an exceedingly stupid question. I wouldn't go around making blanket judgments about an entire ethno/religious population regarding something so pejorative and subjective as to whether they are 'lazy' or 'not lazy'. And I particularly wouldn't be standing up and boldly claiming such judgments are "proven" by whats contained in any workforce participation statistics. Its the height of absurdity, and the level of debate I would expect from a bunch of kindergarten kids.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #82 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:59pm So you are not prepared to claim that Muslims are not lazy, despite the fact that well over one third of adult Muslims have a job?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #83 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:59pm

I prefer to use adult language. Asserting that they are "lazy" or "not lazy" doesn't mean anything, and it doesn't help anyone - except for the bigots who are craving for that sort of pejorative kindergarten language.

I have already proven how idiotic the term is - given that despite multiple opportunities you couldn't explain to me how women who are pressured by their men-folk to turn down any position that might "compromise" their culture/religion are "lazy". You couldn't explain how a woman who breaks her back raising 5+ kids and looking after the home is "lazy" - simply because she chooses that work, rather than an office job.

And your best and pretty much only retort has been "ooh look Gandalf won't say they are not lazy - therefore they must be lazy!" - which is just beyond idiotic.

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« Last Edit: Jul 1^st, 2018 at 6:06pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #84 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 6:01pm Would it be childish to say that Muslims are not lazy?
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Auggie

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #85 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 6:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 1^st, 2018 at 5:25pm:

Auggie wrote on Jul 1^st, 2018 at 2:45pm:

So, you've essentially admitted in the paragraph that the majority of Muslims migrants to Australia have difficulty integrating and obtaining work.

Not in the least. I am not even addressing the issue of integration. I am addressing FD's outrageous bigoted slur encapsulated in the thread title. Surely you agree its an outrageous and bigoted slur?

Yes, I agree it is bigoted and outrageous.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #86 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 6:25pm

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2018 at 6:01pm:

Would it be childish to say that Muslims are not lazy?

Which muslims? Notice how you always seem to phrase these things with the blanket, unqualified "muslims" - not "some muslims" or even "many muslims" - but just "muslims" en masse. If you knew a muslim, knew his/her work ethic, knew what he/she actually did all day, and what he/she aspired to etc - then you might be in a position to judge whether or not they were "lazy" or "not lazy". You might even know a whole group of them, and what their energy levels and motivations are - in which case you can make further judgments. And its very possible, incidentally, that this informed assessment has nothing to do with their actual workforce participation. For example the proverbial house wife who breaks her back raising 5 kids and looking after the house. You obviously need to know the specific circumstances before you label someone "lazy" or "not lazy" - otherwise to use it simply as a, err lazy byword for "not in the workforce", is not only misinformed, it really has no other purpose than to express hate and bigotry.

Undoubtedly there are some muslims who are bone idle. Just like some christians and some hindus are as well. Other muslims, christians and hindus are undoubtedly not. But saying so is not even on the same planet as asserting that xzy statistic "proves" that such and such ethno-religious group is "lazy" or "not lazy".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #87 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 6:31pm

Gandalf do the ABC's statistics not bother you at all?

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Which muslims? Notice how you always seem to phrase these things with the blanket, unqualified "muslims" - not "some muslims" or even "many muslims" - but just "muslims" en masse. If you knew a muslim, knew his/her work ethic, knew what he/she actually did all day, and what he/she aspired to etc - then you might be in a position to judge whether or not they were "lazy" or "not lazy". You might even know a whole group of them, and what their energy levels and motivations are - in which case you can make further judgments.

Or we could look at the statistics the ABC put together for us.

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And its very possible, incidentally, that this informed assessment has nothing to do with their actual workforce participation. For example the proverbial house wife who breaks her back raising 5 kids and looking after the house.

Thanks Gandalf. That's reassuring.

What about the lower job rate among Muslim men?

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Undoubtedly there are some muslims who are bone idle. Just like some christians and some hindus are as well.

Would you say there are a lot more among Muslims?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #88 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 7:35pm Still not quite clicking how absurd it is to jump from all these arguments/points to "proof that muslims are lazy" does it FD? How on earth, for example, can you get to "muslims are lazy" from asking me if low participation rates amongst muslims "bothers me at all"?
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #89 - Jul 1^st, 2018 at 7:36pm You made that leap, not me. Gandalf do the ABC's statistics not bother you at all?
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