Australian Politics Forum - ABC proves that Muslims are lazy

polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #30 - Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 1:20pm

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 11:51am:

It is the reasons behind the statistics. You brought it up.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 12:44am:

Compared to boldly declaring that "muslims" (en-mass) are proven to be "lazy" purely on the back of some workforce participation statistics without any understanding of the reasons behind them - I admit Senator Anning's comments seem positively progressive.

Thanks FD. And this is what you "brought up":

Quote:

ABC proves that Muslims are lazy

Its right there in the thread title.

And now you think you are "proving" this by pointing to reasons in the article that say nothing about whether or not they are "lazy"?

Are you saying that a woman who is not prepared to engage in public interactions for religious and cultural reasons, and therefore turns down a job, is ipso facto "lazy"?

Do you agree the term "lazy" is an unnecessary pejorative that is entirely subjective and therefore entirely useless to this debate - apart from stirring up prejudice against muslims en-mass?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47356 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #31 - Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 2:21pm So refusing to work with non-Muslims isn't laziness?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #32 - Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 2:55pm

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 2:21pm:

So refusing to work with non-Muslims isn't laziness?

There were several reasons listed in that quote of yours FD, but not one of them was "refusing to work with non-Muslims". Every one of those reasons could still apply if the women were in an all-muslim environment.

In any case, why would any of those reasons necessarily equate to "laziness"? Would they be willing to work if the employer catered for their religious requirements (not saying they should)? Are they being forced against their will by their husbands or fathers to reject the work conditions? These are the questions you need to be able to answer before definitively concluding they are "lazy".

And how on earth do you interpret "women being pressured to stay at home" as laziness?

The word in this case is a useless pejorative that serves no other purpose than to stir up prejudice. It is, if you like, a "lazy" way of avoiding the actual issues at play.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #33 - Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 5:00pm

Quote:

but not one of them was "refusing to work with non-Muslims"

What do you think this means Gandalf?

freediver wrote on Jun 4^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

Strange article - disproving a claim by Fraser Anning, in the process proving that Muslims are less likely to be employed, then trying to put a positive spin on that also. They blamed it variously on women and on discrimination. It did cite a UK study that listed a number of situations that Muslims were often not prepared to work in, for religious and cultural reasons - including not being prepared to meet the public, not being prepared to shake hands, women not being prepared to work in an office with men in it and women being pressured to stay at home.

Fact check: Are more than half of Australia's working-age Muslims not in the workforce?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-04/fact-check-muslim-workforce/9800656

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/ABC-workforce-participation-rate-by-religion.PNG

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/ABC-female-workforce-participation-rate-by-relig...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/ABC-male-workforce-participation-rate-by-religio...

Note that "in the labor force" appears to include unemployed people seeking work and on the dole. 56% of working age Muslims are either not seeking work or are seeking work but are currently unemployed.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #34 - Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 8:46pm

I'd say it means what it says FD - not what you are baselessly projecting. Nowhere does it say anything about working with non-muslims, and nowhere does it say, or even imply, that they are out of the workforce because they are lazy. Do you think many of the women would be willing to work if their employers catered for their religious requirements (not saying that they should)? Do you think its possible that many of these women are being forced against their will to reject certain positions by their husbands or fathers?

Exactly how do you equate "women being pressured to stay at home" with laziness?

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« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2018 at 8:53pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47356 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #35 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 9:23am Quote: Nowhere does it say anything about working with non-muslims So the ones who are unwilling to meet the public or shake hands - are you saying they would also be unwilling to meet fellow Muslims?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #36 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 1:59pm if they are men, yes. Exactly how do you equate "women being pressured to stay at home" with laziness?
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Imrah Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 663 Gender:	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #37 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:12pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 1:59pm: if they are men, yes. Exactly how do you equate "women being pressured to stay at home" with laziness? Bowing to pressure rather than overcoming it? It must depend on individual circumstances.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #38 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:19pm So Imrah do you think the 'battered wife syndrome' is all down to laziness? Maybe as long as they are muslim wives - right?
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Imrah

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #39 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:21pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

So Imrah do you think the 'battered wife syndrome' is all down to laziness?

Maybe as long as they are muslim wives - right?

Umm, I suppose wrong. Where does the 'battered wife syndrome' come into this, Gandalf? It must depend on individual cirumstances, just in case you missed the first time.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #40 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:37pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

So Imrah do you think the 'battered wife syndrome' is all down to laziness?

Maybe as long as they are muslim wives - right?

With muslims we can thank Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy for battered wives.

Quote:

Allah speaking-

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

https://quran.com/4/34

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #41 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:46pm

Imrah wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

So Imrah do you think the 'battered wife syndrome' is all down to laziness?

Maybe as long as they are muslim wives - right?

Umm, I suppose wrong. Where does the 'battered wife syndrome' come into this, Gandalf? It must depend on individual cirumstances, just in case you missed the first time.

Apologies, I was really directing it to FD, who seems to think that all working-aged able women who don't work (at least female muslims in Australia) must be lazy.

"women being pressured to stay at home" - could conceivably fit into the "battered wife syndrome" category.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #42 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:51pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:37pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:19pm:

So Imrah do you think the 'battered wife syndrome' is all down to laziness?

Maybe as long as they are muslim wives - right?

With muslims we can thank Allah the most merciful of those who show mercy for battered wives.

Quote:

Allah speaking-

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

https://quran.com/4/34

Would you care to address the actual point here Baron? Do you agree that FD's contention that women who are not prepared to take up employment that involves (for example) meeting men and shaking their hands means that they are lazy?

Those 'battered wives" you describe whose husbands are apparently following quranic orders to beat them and subdue them (which would clearly involve not letting them out to find work) - just lazy?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Imrah

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Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy
Reply #43 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:57pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24^th, 2018 at 2:46pm:

Apologies, I was really directing it to FD, who seems to think that all working-aged able women who don't work (at least female muslims in Australia) must be lazy.

"women being pressured to stay at home" - could conceivably fit into the "battered wife syndrome" category.

Accepted my friend.

There must naturally be a point where 'pressure' becomes intimidation or physical violence. Men and women will also naturally 'pressure' each other to see things their way if they disagree on something important and can't work it out civilly. I suppose every kind of disagreement between two people creates some kind of pressure.

I was once pressured by my partner to quit a job after the first day because she didn't like the smell of diesel and diff oil on my dirty overalls in our laundry basket. I lazily bowed to the pressure but I found a cleaner job by the next week, luckily.

If I had not been lazy and thought to invest in a separate laundry basket and washed my work clothes in a bucket out the back she might have put up with the smell when I got home from work, but it was an exceptionally dirty job, so all factors considered, it was best to take the lazy option. If I did not speak good English it would have been more risky to do what she asked and search for another job.

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Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47356 At my desk.	Re: ABC proves that Muslims are lazy Reply #44 - Jun 24^th, 2018 at 3:18pm 56% of Australia's working-age Muslims are either unemployed or not in the labour force. Keep polishing that turd Gandalf.
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