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New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago (Read 1462 times)
lee
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New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Jun 1st, 2018 at 12:24pm
 
Kullman -

Quote:
“All recovered tree specimens originate from exceptionally high elevations, about 600-700 m atop of modern treeline positions.”

“Conservatively drawing on the latter figure and a summer temperature lapse rate of 0.6 °C per 100 m elevation (Laaksonen 1976), could a priori mean that summer temperatures were at least 4.2 °C warmer than present around 9,500 years before present. However, glacio-isostatic land uplift by at least 100 m since that time (Möller 1987; Påsse & Anderson 2005) implies that this figure has to be reduced to 3.6 °C higher than present-day levels, i.e. first decades of the 21st century. Evidently, this was the warmth peak of the Holocene, hitherto.”

“This inference concurs with paleoclimatic reconstructions from Europe and Greenland (Korhola et al. 2002; Bigler et al. 2003; Paus 2013; Luoto et al. 2014; Väliranta et al. 2015).”


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324991910_Further_Details_on_Holocene_T...

Neilsen -

Quote:
“The Holocene climatic optimum was a period 8–5 kyr ago when annual mean surface temperatures in Greenland were 2–3°C warmer than present-day values. … The initial mass loss in response to the temperature increase in the early Holocene is largest when forcing the ice sheet with the temperature and accumulation reconstructions from Gkinis and others (2014) (Experiment 5). In this simulation, temperature anomalies peak at more than 5°C above the present-day reference climate in the early Holocene and the ice sheet loses 20% of its volume in the 3000 years following the onset of the Holocene through increased surface melting.”


https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/1B273853...

Wow; more than 2C warmer than now and we didn't fry.
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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #1 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 12:27pm
 
IN that 2nd paper, you've essentially cherry picked one line from the paper.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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lee
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #2 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 1:09pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 12:27pm:
IN that 2nd paper, you've essentially cherry picked one line from the paper.


Well I have given you the link. Why don't you read it and get back to me on what it really says.
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #3 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm
 
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.
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DonDeeHippy
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #4 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 1:31pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm:
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.

who is DRAH ? Wink Wink
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #5 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 1:45pm
 
You may note that the science states that this paper confirms the suspected temp range.

Confirms means that it agrees with what was already known.

Yes the Holocene Climate Optimum did happen.

The evidence shown also confirms that the high northern band had a warmer climate. The earth also had a different aspect towards the sun in this period, The Sahara desert was green with many lakes. However the 4 degree increase at the Arctic was only 1 deg increase near the equator and the southern hemispheres was cooler than average. The overall average temp was not 4 deg warmer this was a localised event.

Confirming means that it is not something new - this is the believed position for a long time.
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #6 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 1:50pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm:
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.

who is DRAH ? Wink Wink



DRAH - stands for the name - "Death Rides a Horse" -
he now has many different names or sock puppets.
He tends to spam forums with repetitive sentences -
sometimes the same sentence repeated 10 to 15 times.
He's a nuisance & if he keeps doing it he'll be banned from here.
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #7 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:04pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm:
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.


It is true that the data has been cherry picked and does not mean what it is being portrayed to mean.

Mean temperatures around Greenland 5000 years ago - really ???
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #8 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:08pm
 
Quote:
New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago


No it doesn't It actually supports the long held belief that the Arctic region was warmer 5,000 years ago but forgets to mention that the southern hemisphere was cooler 5,000 years ago.
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #9 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:10pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm:
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.


It is true that the data has been cherry picked and does not mean what it is being portrayed to mean.

Mean temperatures around Greenland 5000 years ago - really ???

shhhh the others that looked back 9000 years got it wrong... these ones got it right. Wink Wink Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #10 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:14pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:10pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm:
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.


It is true that the data has been cherry picked and does not mean what it is being portrayed to mean.

Mean temperatures around Greenland 5000 years ago - really ???

shhhh the others that looked back 9000 years got it wrong... these ones got it right. Wink Wink Cheesy Cheesy


It is not disagreeing with what has been long known only supporting the current position of temperatures in that era.
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #11 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:25pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:14pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:10pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 7:49pm:
Nice find Lee.

And DRAH - don't spam this forum - it will be deleted.


It is true that the data has been cherry picked and does not mean what it is being portrayed to mean.

Mean temperatures around Greenland 5000 years ago - really ???

shhhh the others that looked back 9000 years got it wrong... these ones got it right. Wink Wink Cheesy Cheesy


It is not disagreeing with what has been long known only supporting the current position of temperatures in that era.

oh so they are only saying that what was already know is confirmed ? WoW u mean the temperature of the earth has risen and fallen over the years !!!!!!! Cheesy
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lee
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #12 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:14pm:
It is not disagreeing with what has been long known only supporting the current position of temperatures in that era.


Really?

"After the last glaciation ended, global temperatures appear to have peaked around 6000 years ago, called the Holocene Climatic Optimum. The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11647-climate-myths-its-been-far-warmer-i...

That is part of the reason why the current state  of the climate science is called the "Adjustocene".

There have been claims that no it was cooler, hat it wasn't global.

"Evidence for an early Holocene climatic optimum in the Antarctic deep ice-core record"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00193529

"In the far Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand and Antarctica), the warmest period during the Holocene appears to have been roughly 8,000 to 10,500 years ago, immediately following the end of the last ice age.[10][11] By 6,000 years ago, the time normally associated with the Holocene Climatic Optimum in the Northern Hemisphere, they had reached temperatures similar to present ones, and they did not participate in the temperature changes of the north. However, some authors have used the term "Holocene Climatic Optimum" to describe the earlier southern warm period, as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

wiki references -

Masson, V.; Vimeux, F.; Jouzel, J.; Morgan, V.; Delmotte, M.; Ciais,P.; Hammer, C.; Johnsen, S.; Lipenkov, V.Y.; Mosley-Thompson, E.; Petit, J.-R.; Steig, E.J.; Stievenard, M.; Vaikmae, R. (2000). "Holocene climate variability in Antarctica based on 11 ice-core isotopic records".

.W. Williams; D.N.T. King; J.-X. Zhao K.D. Collerson (2004). "Speleothem master chronologies: combined Holocene 18O and 13C records from the North Island of New Zealand and their paleoenvironmental interpretation". The Holocene. 14 (2): 194–208. doi:10.1191/0959683604hl676rp.
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #13 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:39pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:14pm:
It is not disagreeing with what has been long known only supporting the current position of temperatures in that era.


Really?

"After the last glaciation ended, global temperatures appear to have peaked around 6000 years ago, called the Holocene Climatic Optimum. The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11647-climate-myths-its-been-far-warmer-i...

That is part of the reason why the current state  of the climate science is called the "Adjustocene".

There have been claims that no it was cooler, hat it wasn't global.

"Evidence for an early Holocene climatic optimum in the Antarctic deep ice-core record"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00193529

"In the far Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand and Antarctica), the warmest period during the Holocene appears to have been roughly 8,000 to 10,500 years ago, immediately following the end of the last ice age.[10][11] By 6,000 years ago, the time normally associated with the Holocene Climatic Optimum in the Northern Hemisphere, they had reached temperatures similar to present ones, and they did not participate in the temperature changes of the north. However, some authors have used the term "Holocene Climatic Optimum" to describe the earlier southern warm period, as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

wiki references -

Masson, V.; Vimeux, F.; Jouzel, J.; Morgan, V.; Delmotte, M.; Ciais,P.; Hammer, C.; Johnsen, S.; Lipenkov, V.Y.; Mosley-Thompson, E.; Petit, J.-R.; Steig, E.J.; Stievenard, M.; Vaikmae, R. (2000). "Holocene climate variability in Antarctica based on 11 ice-core isotopic records".

.W. Williams; D.N.T. King; J.-X. Zhao K.D. Collerson (2004). "Speleothem master chronologies: combined Holocene 18O and 13C records from the North Island of New Zealand and their paleoenvironmental interpretation". The Holocene. 14 (2): 194–208. doi:10.1191/0959683604hl676rp.

u missed this bit Lee
First of all, it is worth bearing in mind that any data on global temperatures before about 150 years ago is an estimate, a reconstruction based on second-hand evidence such as ice cores and isotopic ratios. The evidence becomes sparser the further back we look, and its interpretation often involves a set of assumptions. In other words, a fair amount of guesswork. Wink Wink
so I was right , the first guess r wrong and the new guesses r right  Wink Wink Wink
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #14 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 5:07pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:39pm:
lee wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:14pm:
It is not disagreeing with what has been long known only supporting the current position of temperatures in that era.


Really?

"After the last glaciation ended, global temperatures appear to have peaked around 6000 years ago, called the Holocene Climatic Optimum. The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11647-climate-myths-its-been-far-warmer-i...

That is part of the reason why the current state  of the climate science is called the "Adjustocene".

There have been claims that no it was cooler, hat it wasn't global.

"Evidence for an early Holocene climatic optimum in the Antarctic deep ice-core record"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00193529

"In the far Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand and Antarctica), the warmest period during the Holocene appears to have been roughly 8,000 to 10,500 years ago, immediately following the end of the last ice age.[10][11] By 6,000 years ago, the time normally associated with the Holocene Climatic Optimum in the Northern Hemisphere, they had reached temperatures similar to present ones, and they did not participate in the temperature changes of the north. However, some authors have used the term "Holocene Climatic Optimum" to describe the earlier southern warm period, as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

wiki references -

Masson, V.; Vimeux, F.; Jouzel, J.; Morgan, V.; Delmotte, M.; Ciais,P.; Hammer, C.; Johnsen, S.; Lipenkov, V.Y.; Mosley-Thompson, E.; Petit, J.-R.; Steig, E.J.; Stievenard, M.; Vaikmae, R. (2000). "Holocene climate variability in Antarctica based on 11 ice-core isotopic records".

.W. Williams; D.N.T. King; J.-X. Zhao K.D. Collerson (2004). "Speleothem master chronologies: combined Holocene 18O and 13C records from the North Island of New Zealand and their paleoenvironmental interpretation". The Holocene. 14 (2): 194–208. doi:10.1191/0959683604hl676rp.

u missed this bit Lee
First of all, it is worth bearing in mind that any data on global temperatures before about 150 years ago is an estimate, a reconstruction based on second-hand evidence such as ice cores and isotopic ratios. The evidence becomes sparser the further back we look, and its interpretation often involves a set of assumptions. In other words, a fair amount of guesswork. Wink Wink
so I was right , the first guess r wrong and the new guesses r right  Wink Wink Wink


You make it sound like some 5th grade science student is making these "guesses" on the temperature 150 years ago.

We are talking about scientists in their field who are professionals and have models, analysis and data that effectively creates an accurate picture in relation to the current knowledge and understanding we have now.
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lee
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #15 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 5:16pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:39pm:
u missed this bit Lee
First of all, it is worth bearing in mind that any data on global temperatures before about 150 years ago is an estimate, a reconstruction based on second-hand evidence such as ice cores and isotopic ratios. The evidence becomes sparser the further back we look, and its interpretation often involves a set of assumptions. In other words, a fair amount of guesswork.



1. What makes you think I missed it?

2. You probably need to look closer than 1860 for estimations on global climate reconstructions.

They only did the ocean temperature reconstruction for the first time in the 1997. How's that for guesswork?
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #16 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 10:46pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 2:14pm:
It is not disagreeing with what has been long known only supporting the current position of temperatures in that era.


Really?

"After the last glaciation ended, global temperatures appear to have peaked around 6000 years ago, called the Holocene Climatic Optimum. The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11647-climate-myths-its-been-far-warmer-i...

That is part of the reason why the current state  of the climate science is called the "Adjustocene".

There have been claims that no it was cooler, hat it wasn't global.

"Evidence for an early Holocene climatic optimum in the Antarctic deep ice-core record"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00193529

"In the far Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand and Antarctica), the warmest period during the Holocene appears to have been roughly 8,000 to 10,500 years ago, immediately following the end of the last ice age.[10][11] By 6,000 years ago, the time normally associated with the Holocene Climatic Optimum in the Northern Hemisphere, they had reached temperatures similar to present ones, and they did not participate in the temperature changes of the north. However, some authors have used the term "Holocene Climatic Optimum" to describe the earlier southern warm period, as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

wiki references -

Masson, V.; Vimeux, F.; Jouzel, J.; Morgan, V.; Delmotte, M.; Ciais,P.; Hammer, C.; Johnsen, S.; Lipenkov, V.Y.; Mosley-Thompson, E.; Petit, J.-R.; Steig, E.J.; Stievenard, M.; Vaikmae, R. (2000). "Holocene climate variability in Antarctica based on 11 ice-core isotopic records".

.W. Williams; D.N.T. King; J.-X. Zhao K.D. Collerson (2004). "Speleothem master chronologies: combined Holocene 18O and 13C records from the North Island of New Zealand and their paleoenvironmental interpretation". The Holocene. 14 (2): 194–208. doi:10.1191/0959683604hl676rp.


If you read this slowly you will see that it is agreeing with what I said.

It is saying that the Temperature high was only in the northern hemisphere on the 5,000 year period. This means that it was not a global warming event.

Quote:
The warming appears have been largely localised, concentrated in the northern hemisphere in summer, and [highlight]average global temperatures did not exceed those of recent decades by much, if at all


The Northern hemisphere got hotter due to a change in the Earths orbit.

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lee
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Re: New papers suggest it was warmer 9,000 years ago
Reply #17 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 11:21pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 10:46pm:
If you read this slowly you will see that it is agreeing with what I said.



You mean  you want to ignore --

lee wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
"In the far Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand and Antarctica), the warmest period during the Holocene appears to have been roughly 8,000 to 10,500 years ago, immediately following the end of the last ice age.[10][11] By 6,000 years ago, the time normally associated with the Holocene Climatic Optimum in the Northern Hemisphere, they had reached temperatures similar to present ones, and they did not participate in the temperature changes of the north. However, some authors have used the term "Holocene Climatic Optimum" to describe the earlier southern warm period, as well."


Dnarever wrote on Jun 2nd, 2018 at 10:46pm:
It is saying that the Temperature high was only in the northern hemisphere on the 5,000 year period. This means that it was not a global warming event.



You obviously haven't heard of the polar see-saw.
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