We should be able to do better in the 21st century than burn stinking coal.

The Chinese & the Indians are pouring huge money into Thorium research.

Cheap, safe, abundant  power awaits us all.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1519823686/0#0

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2018 at 10:36pm:



Yes - it seems to be taking longer than expected to master Thorium but
the science is real -
enormous energy lies deep in the nucleus of Thorium &
it's so abundant that we'll have enough to last forever.

1000 years from now they will talk of the coal
age and then the wonders of the Thorium age.

Imagine so much power that we don't know what to do with it all?

we just have to get it there.

Till then Coal.

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2018 at 11:38pm:



Yes,
Until Thorium takes over - we have coal & gas.

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2018 at 10:36pm:

and some numbers , how many where built last year, and how many been completed this year.

Sooner we get rid of these killing coal mines the better
https://www.news.com.au/news/report-finds-us-china-and-the-eu-have-higher-standa...
Environmental Justice Australia (EJA) found Australian power stations are allowed to emit far more pollution than those in the US, China and parts of the European Union, and they are not being regulated well enough to protect human health or the environment.
The toxins produced by coal-fired power stations can have a deadly impact on those living nearby. People who live within 50km are about three to four times more likely to die a premature death as those living further away.
The report looked at four pollutants that are extremely harmful to health and have been linked to asthma, respiratory problems, stroke, angina, heart attack and cancer.
It found coal-fired power stations emitted more than 30 toxic substances and are the biggest sources of fine particles PM2.5, sulfur dioxide and oxides of nitrogen.
“The mercury limits for some NSW power stations are 666 times higher than the US limits. This is unacceptable,” the report said.
“In almost all cases the emissions limits applied to Australian power stations are significantly less stringent than the standards in the European Union, United States and China.”
What controls that are in place are also not well monitored and rarely enforced.

I love the argument that we can now build or retrofit coal power plants to emit less poisons..... Australia hasn't.

Marla wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 12:18am:



If only there was some sort of place where information is stored so that you could check what the fkk you were saying so you didn't look like a complete dill.

Maybe staying awake during your Grade 8 science class may have helped.

BigOl64 wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 9:50am:

hate to say .. I agree with u there Big O

BigOl64 wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 10:21am:

High temperatures and fuels that do not contaminate the product are required for iron and steel production. Until now, there have only been fossil fuel solutions, such as oil and natural gas to use as fuel, and coke as a raw product for the process.
The new plant in Höganäs will use forestry-based fuels, e.g., the residue from forestry felling and energy forests as a raw product.
The plant is based on WoodRoll technology and replaces fossil fuels through effective gasification of biomass. As a first stage, the plant in Höganäs will produce gas energy and then possibly be supplemented so as to produce bio-coke.
The financing is based on a combination of grants from Klimatklivet and the Swedish Energy Agency and capital from Cortus and Höganäs. Industrial partners are ABB, Calderys, SSAB and Södra.
The plant means that Höganäs’s carbon dioxide emissions will reduce by 3 percent as a first step.

again the carbon from coking steel is so little in the process it will be fazed out, not today maybe not 20 years but it will go. specially when there r all these solar panels around doing nothing during the day, put them to use and make steel
Future Proof or head in sand I guess its up to us 

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 7:29am:



Again?


Japan
Most of the world is turning its back on burning coal to produce electricity, but not Japan. The nation has fired up at least eight new coal power plants in the past 2 years and has plans for an additional 36 over the next decade—the biggest planned coal power expansion in any developed nation (not including China and India). "

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/bucking-global-trends-japan-again-embrace...


China
"But overseas, China is pursuing a very different policy. Here in Serbia a Chinese enterprise, China Machinery Engineering Corporation (CMEC), recently started work on a multi-million dollar project to enlarge the coal-fired Kostolac power station on the banks of the Danube river in the east of the country."

"Urgewald, a Berlin-based environmental group, calculates that Chinese companies are at present involved in plans to build about a fifth of new coal-fired energy capacity around the world—in countries including Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, Vietnam and Malawi.

In some of these countries there is little or no coal-powered generation at present; building coal plants is likely to prevent the development of other, less polluting energy sources and lock in high emission power structures for years to come."

"https://www.ecowatch.com/china-energy-policy-coal-2566696294.html"

India
" 3,601 MW of coal power plant capacity, across 28 units in 16 plants, retired or converted across India this fiscal. During the same period, 8,710 MW of new capacity has been added. "

https://numerical.co.in/numerons/collection/59db513e250a41f81b6ef75b

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2018 at 10:36pm:


and when it all runs out what will they be building ?

lee wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 11:28am:

Why do u keep insisting china and india r building lots of coal power stations ??? Again ?
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/29/almost-all-power-capacity-added-in-india-in...
OK so no answer on China, yes Chinese businesses r contracted to build power station across the world, how many been built in China last 18 months.....
India
The thermal power sector not only saw no new capacity added in the third and fourth quarters last year but witnessed a decline in installed capacity. India retired and permanently shut down 1,126 megawatts of thermal power capacity in Q3 and 490 megawatts of capacity in Q4 last year. This is the reason the total renewable energy capacity added in Q3 and Q4 has been more than the net new capacity added.
India is loosing capacity on Coal plants and the new  power capacity is just about all renewable, so closing coal and building renewables. SO again how many new stations in last 18 month got build in India, I saw from your link a whole bunch got shut down 
Not sure why u put up stuff about Japan... because in the general region ??

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 1:16pm:




Lucky we don't have to destroy massive amounts of forests to make the millions of tonnes of charcoal to make our steel, ohh  wait we do.

Luckily destroying forests is no biggie and we can do without them, ohh wait we do.

Luckily we don't have to 'burn' trees to make charcoal, fkk you got me again

The socialists will never allow the wholesale destruction of forests to make millions of tonnes of charcoal per year. not even if it was scientifically valid.

The CSIRO might understand basic science but they are fkking clueless when it comes to the world economy. 

lee wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 11:31am:


Coal:

lee:

Coal is coal. Hydrocarbons all burn the same. 

Marla wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 2:20pm:

diamonds r coal as well, both carbon......

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2018 at 10:36pm:

I don't see where Booby mentioned Japan... Ohh looks like out of China and India, Adani has built a coal power plant but overall coal power in India has decreased. No idea if china has built any new coal power in last 18 months.
This is why u get so lost just quoting one line Lee you forget what it was your talking about

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 3:31pm:



Nope.he didn't mention coal fired power in any countries; he was talking on investment in Thorium.

So all are available to look at.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 3:31pm:



But you said none were built in India. As for China go and ask them .

Or you can go to [url] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I8GeKEfxPpwkQ_t0GQZx1GQm6MASclEtEtrQX3Y1
nNc/edit#gid=0[/url]

That shows the data to Jan 2018. Annual CO2 levels (MT)

Announced 161 Permitted (Having permits) 142 Shelved 1633 Operating 3573 Cancelled 1122

So  2755MT either cancelled or shelved. But still 161MT announced of which 142MT have permits.

So China is still building Coal Fired power.

"The study also revealed Asia to be the world’s biggest coal-producing region; 85 per cent of new coal power in development in the top 20 coal-producing countries is in Asia, according to the report."

"China continues to lead the world in the amount of coal power capacity under development, despite tightening restrictions on new coal plant projects by the Chinese authorities."

"Vietnam is also considered a major coal hotspot, with large numbers of proposed projects in active development, largely financed by China, Japan and Korea."

http://www.eco-business.com/news/coal-is-in-decline-globally-but-asia-is-driving...

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 3:31pm:


It seems you forgot the story is about building coal plant ; in any country. Or perhaps it is you comprehension issues again.

The embarrassing ignorance of the technically obtuse Greeny types defies description.

Technical stuff is all Greek to a Greeny. People from China would be astounded at how technically ignorant Greeny types are.


As soon as Mal wins the election he will announce the construction of clean coal power stations here in Australia.

Cause then the hysterical shrieking of the Greenies won't matter a damn.

Now hear the Greeny types howl and squeal as they scream their ignorance.




Clean Coal  the salvation of Australia to prop up the worn out renewable rubbish to keep the lights on.

The dumber than dumb DDH (DDT?) is doing it again - copying MY post and adding 1 line of indescribably dumb dribble. But then she is a Greeny type who are known for this sort of thing.

But what is really going on is the normally ignored is trying to get noticed. Didn't work. But ignoring the normally ignored.

Are the unions trying to close down all the industry here in Australia so we won't need a decent power generation ?

Now it seems a lot of people around the world don't believe the bulldust of the Greenies' Global Warming HOAX.



Forget Paris: 1600 New Coal Power Plants Built Around The World
charles the moderator / July 3, 2017


1,600 new coal-fired power plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries.

When China halted plans for more than 100 new coal-fired power plants this year, even as President Trump vowed to “bring back coal” in America, the contrast seemed to confirm Beijing’s new role as a leader in the fight against climate change.

But new data on the world’s biggest developers of coal-fired power plants paints a very different picture: China’s energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade.



The fleet of new coal plants would make it virtually impossible to meet the goals set in the Paris climate accord, which aims to keep the increase in global temperatures from preindustrial levels below 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit.

Electricity generated from fossil fuels like coal is the biggest single contributor globally to the rise in carbon emissions, which scientists agree is causing the Earth’s temperatures to rise.

“Even today, new countries are being brought into the cycle of coal dependency,” said Heffa Schücking, the director of Urgewald.

The United States may also be back in the game. On Thursday, Mr. Trump said he wanted to lift Obama-era restrictions on American financing for overseas coal projects as part of an energy policy focused on exports.

“We have nearly 100 years’ worth of natural gas and more than 250 years’ worth of clean, beautiful coal,” he said. “We will be dominant. We will export American energy all over the world, all around the globe.”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/07/forget-paris-1600-new-coal-power-plants-buil...


Now read the FULL STORY HERE

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-cl...

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 1:03pm:



29% of how many? 29 % of 1600 would be 464 leaving 1136.

isn't it marvellous they don't actually give numbers.

Also from your reference-

"All up, China has suspended 444,000 MW of new coal plant projects in the last two years. However, as the report makes clear, some of these decisions are tenuous with some plants suspended only until the end of 2017 and others until 2020. There are even 16,000 MW of coal plants which have notionally been suspended by central government agencies but where construction is proceeding nonetheless."

Suspended not cancelled.

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 2:17pm:



Yeah. Life's a bitch for you.Not cancelled.

You do understand that those suspended can still be built. Overcapacity is a bitch too.

BigOl64 wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 2:37pm:

except the 26 countries that have more than 80% renewable and 7 that r 100%
Brazil has 570 GWH of capacity(Australia is 50) and 75% renewable, so the world is a big place Biggy.
Almost 100gwh of new solar last year worldwide, double of Australia's 50gwh total capacity 

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 3:54pm:

yup Hydro... for me as long as its not Fossil Fuel or old Nuc I don't care where its from, although Brazil is about 50gwh of solar and Lots of wind(strange I thought of Big O when I wrote that) 

DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 3:51pm:


None of them are industrial first word countries that rely purely on solar and wind do they, nice try.

Iceland is geothermal, you can't just build geothermal you either have it or you don't.

House of cards are easily knocked over

DDH they have exposed your Greeny bulldust yet again.

Greeny types inevitably drown in their own bulldust. They come and eventually get so humiliated they go. When are you leaving DDH ?

You know just like the other technically ignorant Greenies ? There have been quite a few. When you go take LostSnail with you.




And bear in mind the typical renewable rubbish only lasts about 20 years if you are very lucky.



Now what about DICE ?




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/greg-hunt-clean-coal-technology-highly-amb...

Vangard wrote on Jun 1^st, 2018 at 6:28pm:

juliar wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 6:23pm:




Yes Jules doesn't let emotions enter into his scientific Posts....

And despite the now ignored hysterical outbursts from the backward Greenies and their Global Warming HOAX Clean Coal forges ahead powering the planet.




SaskPower unveils world’s first carbon capture coal plant
SHAWN MCCARTHY GLOBAL ENERGY REPORTER OTTAWA PUBLISHED OCTOBER 2, 2014 UPDATED MAY 12, 2018


SaskPower’s Boundary Dam power station, near Estevan, Sask., is the world’s first commercial-scale carbon capture and storage project at a coal-fired power plant.

SaskPower officially opened the world's first commercial-scale, coal-fired power plant equipped with carbon capture and storage technology on Thursday, with expectations the facility will generate global opportunities for Saskatchewan's state-owned utility.

After Alberta Premier Jim Prentice disparaged carbon capture and storage (CCS) this summer as a "science experiment," Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall said the $1.4-billion Boundary Dam project represents a major milestone in the quest for "environmentally sustainable coal power."

The refurbishment includes retooling the 110-megawatt coal-fired plant, adding solvent-based processors to strip away carbon dioxide, and then piping the CO2 to a nearby oil field where Cenovus Energy Inc. will use the gas in its enhanced-oil-recovery project. Most of the CO2 is expected to remain trapped in the oil-bearing structures.

"This project is another Saskatchewan first," Mr. Wall said in a release. "The rest of the world is very interested to learn how they, too, can produce environmentally sustainable coal power."

Cenovus has for years been using CO2 piped up from North Dakota to boost production at its aging oil field, and scientists from around the world have studied that project to determine whether the gas would indeed remain sequestered. Now, SaskPower is pioneering the use of a solvent-based capture process at an operating coal plant in order to demonstrate its effectiveness. The Boundary Dam plant is expected to capture one million tonnes of CO2 annually – the equivalent of emissions from 250,000 cars.

The ceremony in Estevan on Thursday was attended by 250 people – including government officials, scientists and industry representatives – from 20 countries But the technology remains highly controversial and hugely expensive. Ottawa provided $240-million in subsidies for the plant, and has allocated $580-million for four CCS projects. Many environmentalists scorn CCS as the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig – a high-subsidy effort to justify the continued use of fossil fuel energy while the world should be turning to renewables.

In his leadership campaign this summer, Mr. Prentice vowed to back away from the provincial government's previous endorsement – and subsidization of CCS projects – describing it as an experiment that had failed to progress as once hoped.

Royal Dutch Shell PLC remains committed to CCS. The company is finalizing a project at its Scotford upgrader, which is expected to begin operating next year and would capture CO2 and sequester it in a deep saline aquifer. Shell's Quebec-based subsidiary, Cansolv, provided the technology to capture both CO2 and sulphur dioxide, and said the project will help prove the viability of the technology and pave the way for future projects.

While critics question the viability of CCS, both the International Energy Agency and the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change continue to promote it as a critical piece of the puzzle as the world moves to reduce carbon emissions in order to avert the worst impacts of climate change.

"When humanity really gets serious about reducing emissions, fossil-fuel-endowed regions are likely to pursue carbon storage in addition to many different renewables, and perhaps some forms of nuclear," said Mark Jaccard, an energy economist at Simon Fraser University and climate activist. "There is no one-size-fits-all for the planet. But it is difficult to believe that fossil-fuel-endowed regions will simply stop completely the exploitation of all fossil fuels. Even with the extra cost of CCS, this option will often be the cheapest way to get dependable energy."

A recent report by the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate concluded that the world could boost economic growth even while tackling climate change, but described CCS as a key component in keeping down the costs of action. Projects like SaskPower's Boundary Dam plant are important to reduce its cost, said Michael Levi, a fellow on energy and environment at the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations. But eventually, companies will need regulations or market-based carbon prices to justify investment in CCS, he said.

Editor's note: Royal Dutch Shell PLC's carbon capture and storage project at its Scotford upgrader will sequester carbon dioxide in a deep saline aquifer. An earlier version of this story incorrectly said the carbon dioxide would be shipped to oil producers near Edmonton for use in oil recovery.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-reso...

You have to talk to the level of competence of the reader (you).

This is the first thread that hasn't been a sensationalist Lie Jules ... Well Done 

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/22/coal-plant-development-continues-drop-secon...
The development of coal-fired power plants fell significantly for the second year in a row in 2017, with new construction down by 73% between 2015 and 2017, thanks in large part to tighter restrictions in China and a lack of private financing in India.
In the fourth annual survey of the global coal plant pipeline — Boom and Bust 2018: Tracking The Global Coal Plant Pipeline — Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and Coal Swarm found that major declines in development and construction in both China and India led to a 28% year-over-year decline in newly completed coal plants — which was 41% over the past two years — and a 29% year-over-year decline in construction starts — out to a 73% decline over the past two years — and finally a 22% drop in plants in the permitting and planning stage — equaling a 59% drop over the past two years. The report of 2017 coal activities only further strengthens the importance of the 2016 report which, at the time, was thought by many to possibly be an anomaly. This is no anomaly, however, but sign of a much larger trend that speaks dire warnings to the coal industry.

lee wrote on Jun 10^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

yes incompetence and corruption off the top of my head.

Hey DDH they reckon you are not the full quid. I am convinced. Most Greeny types are the same - that's why they are Greeny types.

juliar wrote on Jun 12^th, 2018 at 8:00am:


Takes one to know one socko

Gosh nobody seems interested in coal anymore!!!!


Coal naturally stored sunshine powering the globe and melting the steel



ThePhantom Sun 13 May 2018 08:24:23 am

NEW DELHI, May 11 (Reuters) – India's thermal coal imports rose by more than 15 percent in the first three months of 2018, with

Indonesia accounting for about three-fifths of total supplies

, according to vessel arrival data from Dubai-based coal trader American Fuels & Natural Resources.

India's rising coal imports are contributing to higher demand across Asia this year, which has pushed benchmark Australian coal cargo prices above $100 per tonne, a price not seen at this time of year in more than half a decade.

Imports rose to 39.6 million tonnes during the three months ended March 31, the data from American Fuels, a supplier of coal from the United States, showed.

That is up from 34.4 million tonnes of thermal coal during the first three months of 2017, according to Indian government data which matched the data from American Fuels.

Government data for the first three months of 2018 has not been released yet.

The American Fuels figures are broadly in line with data from an Indian-based trading company reviewed by Reuters that showed imports were 37 million tonnes in the quarter.

India will likely increase 2018 thermal coal imports after two straight years of declines because of domestic logistic bottlenecks, regulatory changes and surging power demand.

Vasudev Pamnani, a senior trader at American Fuels, said India's demand for coal with a higher calorific value, most of which has to be imported, was increasing since buyers want more energy from the coal they purchase to offset higher prices and the logistical problems, mainly railway delays.

South Africa was the second-largest source of foreign coal during the first quarter, supplying about one-fourth of the total imports, with the United States and Australia being the next largest sources, the data showed.

Adani Enterprises, India's largest coal trader, accounted for about one-sixth of all the imports, purchasing about 6.51 million tonnes during the period, the data showed.

The Tata Group imported 5.23 million tonnes of coal during the period with Swiss Singapore, part of the Aditya Birla Group, taking in 2.92 million and JSW Group bringing in 2.48 million.

The companies did not respond to requests for comment.

The ports of Mundra, Krishnapatnam and Kandla handled about the two-fifths of all of the imports, according to American Fuels.



What a disgrace. No wonder this country is going backwards

Indian conglomerate Adani Enterprises Ltd. has taken a 896.4 million rupees ($13.3 million) writedown on its Carmichael coal mine in Australia’s Queensland state due to delays and legal challenges.

The impairment charge was booked by its Australian unit Adani Mining Pty in the quarter ended March 31, Adani Enterprises said in a stock exchange filing Thursday in Mumbai.

Even though the writedown is small compared to the overall size of the A$16.5 billion ($12.4 billion) project, it’s the latest sign of strain to hit the massive thermal coal development.

The billionaire Gautam Adani-backed company has pushed back by one year its original 2020 target to start the Carmichael mine after failing to obtain up to A$3 billion of funds by a March deadline. Major financiers in Australia and China have excluded themselves from funding the development because they oppose polluting fossil-fuel projects.

The write-downs stem from Adani being forced to duplicate studies and redesign elements of the Carmichael project due to delays in regulatory approvals and ongoing legal challenges, an Australian spokesman said in an email Friday. Additional labor costs have also contributed to the charge, he said.

This enlightening exposure of renewable rubbish insanity continues...


Others are speaking out in favour of the energy guarantee, with NSW Liberal senator Jim Molan saying his colleagues “must be practical”. He said the policy should be supported “without compromise” at the Council of Australia Governments’ Energy Council meeting in August.

“Current or planned renewables are here to stay and dispatchable Snowy 2.0 makes them reliable. Under the NEG, subsidies will ultimately go. We will achieve our Paris obligations early,” he said. “The NEG plus other government initiatives is the only comprehensive policy and should force household bills down.”

Key conservative Liberal MP Michael Sukkar also told the ABC yesterday he believed the NEG would achieve its twin objectives of underpinning the security and stability of the electricity system.

“Those two objectives are things we all agree on and within those two objectives we will see the NEG pass through the parliament,” he said.

Mr Macfarlane yesterday welcomed the energy guarantee as a “great concept” that would help manage an increased renewables energy mix, but urged the government not to rule out taking steps to promote new coal-fired power stations. “It’s virtually too late. But if the government wanted to step in and say we will support the most efficient, low-emissions plant in the southern hemisphere and cover the commercial and carbon risk — you’d then have a surplus of electricity in the market which would lower prices,” he said.

Mr Macfarlane is the head of the Queensland Resources Council and led the Coalition’s negotiations in 2009 with Labor’s Penny Wong over the proposed emissions trading scheme developed by the Rudd government.

He said yesterday that any decision by government to cover the risks of a new coal-fired power station should take place in the “context of a growing renewables mix”. But he noted new coal-fired power plants featured in the power generation mix in Germany, Japan, America, China and India.

“We have philosophically said ‘no’ to that,” he said. “What’s causing the current ‘crisis’ is that coal-fired generators are being closed down and not being replaced.”



Mr Boswell — who played a key role in pushing back against green policies in the 2009 leadership change from Malcolm Turnbull to Tony Abbott — has also proposed a “supplementary plan” to complement the energy guarantee. Writing in The Australian today, Mr Boswell says he is not convinced the NEG will bring on new baseload investment and suggests the government commit to an “an open tender for new supply through a power purchasing agreement for 15-20 years”.

“It might be new super-efficient coal, gas, or renewables with batteries or some mix of the above. But the prime consideration should be price and reliability,” he writes. Mr Boswell says that “new low emissions coal will bolt in” under such a plan. Let the most cost-effective and reliable energy source win in a reverse auction.”

Leftist media saturates the news. Fight back. Send articles to your friends, politicians, local media, and facebook.

http://morningmail.org/electric-shock-therapy-answer/#more-84652

couldn't agree with u More Jules..... Sounds Like coal is Finished 

Coal is all the go again as the useless renewable rubbish that stops every other day or so withers and dies on the vine.

Australia needs MAN SIZE energy to run industry like Tomago aluminium smelter - not useless Greeny ideological mouse power stuff.

Malcolm has cunningly wriggled around the dumb Greenies by using an independent body to come up with the decision - just like Fair Work's penalty rates decision that lets battling businesses open on the weekend again.

Just look at the scurrilous rubbish that comes out of windy renewable rubbish





Coal needed for decades to keep Australian power prices down: AEMO report
AAP, Claire Bickers, News Corp Australia Network 3 minutes ago

VIDEO: Coal has to be part of the mix: McCormack

COAL-FIRED power will be needed for decades to come to keep power prices down and the lights on as the Australian energy market transitions to renewables, the Australian Energy Market Operator says.

In a report to be released today, the AEMO says extending the life of coal-fired power stations is the most viable way of keeping energy prices down as the transition takes place.

It also predicts replacing Australia’s existing coal-fired network would cost between $8 billion and $27 billion by the mid-2030s.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has welcomed the report, while indicating he doesn’t back the calls of Coalition backbenchers including Tony Abbott who are urging the government to build a new coal-fired power station to help push power prices down.

“What they [AEMO] have said is we want to keep existing coal-fired powered stations going longer,” Mr Turnbull told Melbourne radio 3AW today.

“They’ve said we should keep existing coal-fired power stations going for basically for the term of their natural life, which they assume to be 50 years in operation.

“I think it should happen.

“There’s no question that getting more megawatt hours out of an existing coal-fired power station is cheaper than the megawatt hours that would come out of a new one. There’s no question about that at all.”

AEMO’s analysis says that, based on the projected cost of replacing the existing coal-fired power network, the cheapest option would be to “retain existing resources for as long as they can be economically relied on”.

“Over the next 20 years, approximately 30 per cent of the NEM’s (National Electricity Market’s) existing coal resources will be approaching the end of their technical lives, and will likely be retired, which highlights the importance of mitigating premature retirements as these resources currently provide essential low-cost energy and system support services required for the safe and secure operation of the power system,” it says.

The federal, state and territory governments have already agreed coal-fired power station operators must give three years’ notice before they close a plant.

It comes after the closure of Victoria’s Hazelwood plant last year.

The federal government is also urging energy retailer AGL to keep the Liddell coal-fired power station open beyond its 2022 closure date.

Federal Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg said removing coal too soon would “prematurely send people’s power bills up, and stability of the grid down”.

“That’s not a good outcome for consumers, and therefore it is important we listen to the energy market operator,” he told ABC Radio this morning.

Mr Frydenberg said the report “doesn’t preclude” a new coal-fired power station being built.

Meanwhile, a Newspoll conducted for The Australian has found voters believe the federal Coalition is best placed to keep power prices lower and maintain reliable energy supply.

The Turnbull government is leading Labor 40 per cent to 34 per cent on the question of which party had the better approach to energy.

This represents an eight-point turn around from a similar poll conducted in May when voters backed Labor on this issue.

Mr Frydenberg, who will meet with his state and territory counterparts on August 10 to discuss the federal government’s planned National Energy Guarantee, said Australia had “turned a corner” on power prices.

“When it comes to energy policy, the Turnbull government has a laser-like focus on reducing power prices,” he told The Australian.

“Everything we do is about putting the consumer first and helping create jobs across the economy.”

Elsewhere, a separate Guardian Essential poll found 80 per cent of voters support the government launching an inquiry into power companies and high power prices.

It also found 63 per cent want energy companies returned to public ownership.

The federal government needs all of the state and territory governments on board if its National Energy Guarantee — which aims to lower power prices — can go ahead.

John Grimes, chief executive of the Smart Energy Council, said the future of small-scale solar was under a cloud and the government needed to reveal the future of the small-scale renewable energy scheme.

“The National Energy Guarantee is being turned into the national coal guarantee,” he said.

Now BH the graph is clearly labelled and is total wind production in Australia during June 2017.

It demonstrates just how wobbly and erratic expensive high maintenance short life wind production really is and how incapable it is of supplying a constant stable power to industry which requires rock steady frequency and voltage 24/7.

The Liddell coal station supplying CHEAP 300MW heavy duty power 24/7 to Tomago aluminium smelter is an excellent example of where windy power is just hot air. Tomago aluminium smelter is an excellent example of a constant load on a coal generator.

To rub it in, to fully replace Liddell would require 100s of windymills spread over many square kilometers to even out local wind nulls. But probability says even this will fail at some time when there is a widespread loss of wind.

Now of course the technically dead in the head Greenies will screech BATTERIES!!!

But the tiny toy battery in Sth Aust has a capacity of 100MW max and 129MWH duration and so it would be flat in about 0.3 hours supplying 300MW to Tomago smelter and then the aluminium would start to freeze in the pots.

But the Greenies will screech but then the diesel and in short supply gas backup genes will kick in at huge cost.

Why not simply keep the existing Liddell coal generator which has supplied CHEAP RELIABLE power for the last 100 years or so ? And that is what the govt will do now.

All that lovely CO₂ is making plants grow really good and is supplying food crops to hungry humanity and it has ZERO effect on heat transfer to and from the earth. Water vapor has the big effect.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 17^th, 2018 at 1:57pm:


So you believe that fairies in the bottom of your garden will provide baseload power? Or there is no need for baseload power?

"The African Development Bank has disagreed with the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF), on the use of coal as an energy source in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Nigeria is in a search for energy companies to develop its coal deposits for the production of at least 500 MW of electricity. In its power project database is the Itobe Power station in Kogi state, which is expected to produce 1,200 MW using coal.

Kenya is building a 1,000-MW generator near Lamu on the coast, with the use of clean-coal technology.

The World Bank and IMF have denied funding for the projects.

Funding has also been sealed-off for South Africa’s main energy firm, Eskom’s coal station.

But the President of the AFDB, Akinwunmi Adesina, says ‘Africa must develop its energy sector with what it has.’ "

http://saharareporters.com/2018/04/10/afdb-clashes-imf-world-bank-over-coal-powe...

There are vast amounts of coal and gas in Africa.

The term seems to be dispatchable energy generation, and solar and wind don't meet that either. Biomass, geothermal and wave energy do as well as hydro and natural gas.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 17^th, 2018 at 5:13pm:



Oh hospitals. commerce? large powerplants? Coal? thermal?

" Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the Daily Telegraph "? You would put your faith in a journalist?

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 17^th, 2018 at 5:19pm:


Oh.

Biomass - growing trees to cut them down to feed into power plants? Like DRAX in the UK? Ship biomass pellets- from the USA and Canada and burn them in Britain? Less energy density than coal, more biomass needed.

Geothermal - could be good. But - "Geothermal power project closes in SA as technology deemed not financially viable"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-30/geothermal-power-plant-closes-deemed-not-f...

Wave energy - the word is potential.

Natural gas? - Fracked or unfracked? Doesn't matter it still emits CO2. Which by the way biomass also does.

There is already a shortage of natural gas.

The real issue is generating capacity which ALL Greeny type carefully avoid.

Industry needs BIG MAN SIZE totally reliable stable frequency and voltage power 24/7 with no ifs and buts.

The question a person should ask himself is, "Do I want to see industry remaining in Australia ?".

Just look to Sth Aust to see what a chaotic mess renewable rubbish really is. The renewable rubbish drops out every other week or so and it is ONLY the transmission link to the Vic coalfields that keeps them afloat.

SA's diesel and gas backups are expensive to run and are impractical if there is an extended break in the link to Victoria as was seen a while ago unless there is massive shutdown of all industry and households.

SA is truly the canary in the coalmine and serves as a stark warning to the rest of Australia.

The high power prices are being caused by the electricity suppliers gaming the now unstable system and only selling during overload times when the price is highest.

And the instability is being caused by the shoddy shaky renewable rubbish.

While out of touch Labor continues with the outdated renewable rubbish failure the enlightened Libs pursue the modern world wide concept of cheap coal energy to make Australia remain competitive.

The Libs' goal is to restore cheap power to Australia while the union controlled Labor Party's goal is to triple or quadruple the cost of electricity with their irresponsible and technically unachievable 50% renewable insanity.



Canavan Warns of Labor’s Dangerous Stance on Coal
Author: The Australian Tribune with AAP 16/07/2018



The government’s belated efforts at tackling soaring energy costs appear closer to bearing fruit. And with businesses and consumers looking to potentially shave 25% off their current bills, that will come as welcome news to all Aussies.

Yet the Greens and Labor continue to thumb their noses at the possibility of including clean coal power in the mix. That’s despite the latest recommendation from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.



Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has ruled out directly funding any particular type of power, but says the idea of taxpayers underwriting new generation has some merit.

The coalition is trying to get the states and Labor to agree to its national energy guarantee policy, but it could fall over if coal is subsidised.

Senator Canavan said he understood the political ramifications.

‘I’m not, and my Nationals colleagues are not mandating that coal should be definitely invested in,’ Senator Canavan said.

‘But what we are doing is reflecting the common sense of the ACCC that all fuel types should be considered.

‘We’ve got to all come together and be flexible.’

The ACCC’s report into the energy market made 56 recommendations, which it said could cut 25 per cent off household and business power bills.

It identified how government policy indecision allowed generators and retailers to rip off billions of dollars from Australians.

Mr Turnbull is considering the recommendations but is largely supportive of the measures aimed at bringing prices down.

Labor is also considering the recommendations but is pushing back against new coal investment.

https://www.theaustraliantribune.com.au/2018/07/canavan-warns-of-labors-dangerou...

lee wrote on Jul 17^th, 2018 at 5:33pm:




I'm simply telling you whats being said.

BH you are dreaming.

Renewable rubbish is lightweight Secondary Mouse Power which is highly erratic and unstable and is INCAPABLE of supplying multiMW to heavy industry.

That is why the govt is backing ever reliable coal which can deliver huge amounts of power to industry.

These micro grids are a Greeny dream of having little sustainable lots which "can" miraculously sustain themselves independently.

The picture I put up a little while ago is what the Greenies' dream is.

Just look to Sth Aust which has gone down the road to ruin with this renewable rubbish and has come a cropper. Pouring money into renewable rubbish is sending good money after bad - a bottomless pit of very little return.

BH your micro grids assume ALL industry has been forced to close down and/or leave Australia.

BH do you want to see ALL industry closed down in Australia ?

To say renewable energy is free is a total myth as it is VERY EXPENSIVE to build a large enough renewable farm to even come within a bull's roar of supplying the same amount of energy as a coal or hydro generator.

The energy capacity is the pot hole all renewable advocates fall into.

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jul 18^th, 2018 at 12:30pm:



So you have evidence from systems engineers saying there is no problem with intermittency?

What are these large scale powerplants that will be relied upon to allow these intermittent renewables to be effective? Fossil fuelled? Whether coal or gas?

What about the microgrids that are going to seemingly run on a standalone basis? Each microgrid to have its own storage? Each microgrid to have one of Elon's batteries to power 30,000 homes for one hour, when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

Didn't think so.

lee wrote on Jul 18^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:



I'm talking to juliar. You on the other hand I don't mind debating, because you seem reasonable and willing to provide evidence if necessar.