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Sounds like coal is finished (Read 10213 times)
DonDeeHippy
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #45 - May 31st, 2018 at 3:51pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 2:37pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 2:17pm:
lee wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 1:59pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 1:03pm:
The number of new coal plants under development worldwide continues to fall dramatically with a new report revealing a 28 per cent fall in newly completed coal plants in 2017 compared to 2016.



29% of how many? 29 % of 1600 would be 464 leaving 1136.

isn't it marvellous they don't actually give numbers.

Also from your reference-

"All up, China has suspended 444,000 MW of new coal plant projects in the last two years. However, as the report makes clear, some of these decisions are tenuous with some plants suspended only until the end of 2017 and others until 2020. There are even 16,000 MW of coal plants which have notionally been suspended by central government agencies but where construction is proceeding nonetheless."

Suspended not cancelled.

and still suspended, 29% of 10 would be 7 built..... yes numbers r fun.
In the end coal power plants are not booming anymore the number are going down... not stopped but less and less Wink Wink



Don't hold your breath Hippie, there isn't a country on the planet that afford batteries and solar, and solar / wind are never going to be baseload. Until you lot understand that you will be grasping at straws.


except the 26 countries that have more than 80% renewable and 7 that r 100%
Brazil has 570 GWH of capacity(Australia is 50) and 75% renewable, so the world is a big place Biggy.
Almost 100gwh of new solar last year worldwide, double of Australia's 50gwh total capacity  Wink Wink Wink
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lee
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #46 - May 31st, 2018 at 3:54pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 3:51pm:
except the 26 countries that have more than 80% renewable and 7 that r 100%



What are he 7 that are 100% renewable? Do they have hydro?
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DonDeeHippy
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #47 - May 31st, 2018 at 4:26pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 3:54pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 3:51pm:
except the 26 countries that have more than 80% renewable and 7 that r 100%



What are he 7 that are 100% renewable? Do they have hydro?

yup Hydro... for me as long as its not Fossil Fuel or old Nuc I don't care where its from, although Brazil is about 50gwh of solar and Lots of wind(strange I thought of Big O when I wrote that)  Wink Wink
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lee
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #48 - May 31st, 2018 at 4:54pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 4:26pm:
yup Hydro... for me as long as its not Fossil Fuel or old Nuc I don't care where its from, although Brazil is about 50gwh of solar and Lots of wind(strange I thought of Big O when I wrote that)



So NOT suitable for most of Australia. Wink

Brazil -

"Still, investors are cautious, as the construction of transmission lines is slow, and poor infrastructure increases the price of imported parts. Now, lawmakers are proposing a tax on wind- and solar-generated power as the government hopes to profit from the moneymaking potential."


"At Morro dos Martins beach, about 80 miles northwest of Natal, Damiao Henrique, 70, plugged electric cables to a pump so he could water his bean plants. A fisherman and farmer, he was removed from his old strip of land and sent a few yards closer to the shore to allow space for a wind farm.

“But I am O.K.,” he said. “As compensation, I received energy from the company, and now I can water my beans more easily.”

Other local residents said the promised benefits had not appeared.

“The mayor said there would be schools,” said Maria Venus, 47, who owns a grocery store in Morro dos Martins. “They opened a music school for the community, gave us some guitars and after a year all was put on hold.”

And then there is the noise.

“Oh yes,” she added, “they also left this noise that never stops.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/americas/brazil-wind-energy.html

So a tax on wind and solar. well there go any subsidies. And extra cost for the workers.

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BigOl64
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #49 - May 31st, 2018 at 4:55pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 3:51pm:
BigOl64 wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 2:37pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 2:17pm:
lee wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 1:59pm:
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 1:03pm:
The number of new coal plants under development worldwide continues to fall dramatically with a new report revealing a 28 per cent fall in newly completed coal plants in 2017 compared to 2016.



29% of how many? 29 % of 1600 would be 464 leaving 1136.

isn't it marvellous they don't actually give numbers.

Also from your reference-

"All up, China has suspended 444,000 MW of new coal plant projects in the last two years. However, as the report makes clear, some of these decisions are tenuous with some plants suspended only until the end of 2017 and others until 2020. There are even 16,000 MW of coal plants which have notionally been suspended by central government agencies but where construction is proceeding nonetheless."

Suspended not cancelled.

and still suspended, 29% of 10 would be 7 built..... yes numbers r fun.
In the end coal power plants are not booming anymore the number are going down... not stopped but less and less Wink Wink



Don't hold your breath Hippie, there isn't a country on the planet that afford batteries and solar, and solar / wind are never going to be baseload. Until you lot understand that you will be grasping at straws.


except the 26 countries that have more than 80% renewable and 7 that r 100%
Brazil has 570 GWH of capacity(Australia is 50) and 75% renewable, so the world is a big place Biggy.
Almost 100gwh of new solar last year worldwide, double of Australia's 50gwh total capacity  Wink Wink Wink


None of them are industrial first word countries that rely purely on solar and wind do they, nice try. Smiley

Iceland is geothermal, you can't just build geothermal you either have it or you don't.

House of cards are easily knocked over
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lee
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #50 - May 31st, 2018 at 5:16pm
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 3:51pm:
Almost 100gwh of new solar last year worldwide, double of Australia's 50gwh total capacity 



Wow. So some 190 countries only managed to double Australia's total. That can't be good can it?
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juliar
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #51 - May 31st, 2018 at 6:23pm
 
DDH they have exposed your Greeny bulldust yet again.

Greeny types inevitably drown in their own bulldust. They come and eventually get so humiliated they go. When are you leaving DDH ?

You know just like the other technically ignorant Greenies ? There have been quite a few. When you go take LostSnail with you.


...

And bear in mind the typical renewable rubbish only lasts about 20 years if you are very lucky.



Now what about DICE ?

...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-12/greg-hunt-clean-coal-technology-highly-amb...
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« Last Edit: May 31st, 2018 at 6:36pm by juliar »  
 
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Vangard
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #52 - Jun 1st, 2018 at 6:28pm
 
I doubt it, but you must have verified your facts.
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DonDeeHippy
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #53 - Jun 2nd, 2018 at 8:32am
 
Vangard wrote on Jun 1st, 2018 at 6:28pm:
I doubt it, but you must have verified your facts.

juliar wrote on May 31st, 2018 at 6:23pm:
DDH they have exposed your Greeny bulldust yet again.

Greeny types inevitably drown in their own bulldust. They come and eventually get so humiliated they go. When are you leaving DDH ?

You know just like the other technically ignorant Greenies ? There have been quite a few. When you go take LostSnail with you.




Yes Jules doesn't let emotions enter into his scientific Posts.... Shocked Shocked


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juliar
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #54 - Jun 4th, 2018 at 12:34pm
 
Sillly old Greeny type DDH is upset at being exposed as yet another Greeny type fraud who is totally ignorant of technical stuff but just wants to try to get noticed.

Now something to send the dumb Greeny types into apoplexy - but they are like that normally I hear you say.






Should Australia subsidise clean coal?
POSTED BY: JUSTIN CAMPBELL 15/02/2017

...

In the last week clean coal has been back in the news with energy minister Josh Frydenberg looking to Japan as an example for Australia.

Since the Fukushima disaster Japan has replaced most of its nuclear capacity with new clean coal/ low emissions technology. With much of Australia’s existing power infrastructure due for replace, its large coal reserves and the relative infant state of renewable energy technologies clean coal seems like the perfect solution to Australia’s energy problems. But, is clean coal just a pipedream? Should Australia be subsidising it?

Australia has set the goal of reducing its emissions to 26-28 per cent on 2005 levels by 2030. Since the repeal of the unpopular carbon tax Australia’s primary method of achieving these reductions has been a 23.5% renewable energy target by 2020. In addition to this various State governments have set even more ambitious RETs such as Queensland 50% target by 2030. Due to both price and reliability concerns this has proven to be highly controversial with many claiming the RET will damage Australian industry.

Clean coal or new generation low emission coal power plants seems like an easy solution. However the University of Melbourne claims that replacing Australia’s existing coal power plants with new generation low emission plants would cost $62 billion dollars.

Renewable energy would according to the university only cost $24 billion. The advocates of clean coal would argue that these figures are inaccurate and that renewable energy would also require significant upgrades to the energy grid to provide energy security.


At present current subsidies to renewable energy in the Australia add up to $5 billion per annum and will increase if Australia is to meet its renewable energy target.

These subsidies have resulted in considerable distortions in Australia’s energy market making the wholesale price of renewables ‘cheaper’ than traditional baseload power resulting in the closer of older coal power plants such as was seen with Hazelwood brown coal power plant.

In the case of South Australia this resulted in that state relying on the importation of coal power from Victoria and reliance on expensive gas power when renewables haven’t been able to meet demand. The overall result has been increased power prices and damage to the South Australian industry.

Australia’s experience with renewables should be warning of what happens when governments interfere with markets and pick winners. As is constantly claimed by renewable energy advocates the price of renewables continues to drop and their competitiveness continues to increase. In many situations wind and solar maybe the best option to replace aging power plants. This however should negate the arguments for subsidising them. The same is true of clean coal if it truly is the best option it should not require government subsidy.

The Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek warned of the local knowledge problem stating, “Today it is almost heresy to suggest that scientific knowledge is not the sum of all knowledge. But a little reflection will show that there is beyond question a body of very important but unorganized knowledge which cannot possibly be called scientific in the sense of knowledge of general rules: the knowledge of the particular circumstances of time and place.” When Hayek said this he was arguing against central planning the scientific planning of its day. Energy policy in response to the challenge of climate change is the central planning. Just as the socialists of the 20th century thought markets were too messy and imperfect today’s experts think they can plan energy policy more effectively than the free market.

Whether these experts are advocating clean coal or renewable energy they are wrong. Australia’s energy future will have no single solution, it will be a mix of new technologies, efficiency gains and the continuation of old solutions were appropriate. Those best place to make the decisions are those with the local knowledge. It will come from thousands of investors weighing risk and determining the best solution. Where solar makes sense it will be solar, where wind it will be wind and where coal it will be coal.


Josh Frydenberg, Richard Di Natale or the University of Melbourne don’t possess the local knowledge to plan Australia’s energy future – this knowledge is held by thousands of dispersed people investing in the energy network. The Australian government can help by getting out of the way by repealing its renewable energy target and by letting local knowledge prevail.

Justin Campbell is General Manager of LibertyWorks Inc.


https://libertyworks.org.au/australia-subsidise-clean-coal/
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juliar
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #55 - Jun 4th, 2018 at 12:44pm
 
And despite the now ignored hysterical outbursts from the backward Greenies and their Global Warming HOAX Clean Coal forges ahead powering the planet.




SaskPower unveils world’s first carbon capture coal plant
SHAWN MCCARTHY GLOBAL ENERGY REPORTER OTTAWA PUBLISHED OCTOBER 2, 2014 UPDATED MAY 12, 2018

...
SaskPower’s Boundary Dam power station, near Estevan, Sask., is the world’s first commercial-scale carbon capture and storage project at a coal-fired power plant.

SaskPower officially opened the world's first commercial-scale, coal-fired power plant equipped with carbon capture and storage technology on Thursday, with expectations the facility will generate global opportunities for Saskatchewan's state-owned utility.

After Alberta Premier Jim Prentice disparaged carbon capture and storage (CCS) this summer as a "science experiment," Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall said the $1.4-billion Boundary Dam project represents a major milestone in the quest for "environmentally sustainable coal power."

The refurbishment includes retooling the 110-megawatt coal-fired plant, adding solvent-based processors to strip away carbon dioxide, and then piping the CO2 to a nearby oil field where Cenovus Energy Inc. will use the gas in its enhanced-oil-recovery project. Most of the CO2 is expected to remain trapped in the oil-bearing structures.

"This project is another Saskatchewan first," Mr. Wall said in a release. "The rest of the world is very interested to learn how they, too, can produce environmentally sustainable coal power."

Cenovus has for years been using CO2 piped up from North Dakota to boost production at its aging oil field, and scientists from around the world have studied that project to determine whether the gas would indeed remain sequestered. Now, SaskPower is pioneering the use of a solvent-based capture process at an operating coal plant in order to demonstrate its effectiveness. The Boundary Dam plant is expected to capture one million tonnes of CO2 annually – the equivalent of emissions from 250,000 cars.

The ceremony in Estevan on Thursday was attended by 250 people – including government officials, scientists and industry representatives – from 20 countries But the technology remains highly controversial and hugely expensive. Ottawa provided $240-million in subsidies for the plant, and has allocated $580-million for four CCS projects. Many environmentalists scorn CCS as the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig – a high-subsidy effort to justify the continued use of fossil fuel energy while the world should be turning to renewables.

In his leadership campaign this summer, Mr. Prentice vowed to back away from the provincial government's previous endorsement – and subsidization of CCS projects – describing it as an experiment that had failed to progress as once hoped.

Royal Dutch Shell PLC remains committed to CCS. The company is finalizing a project at its Scotford upgrader, which is expected to begin operating next year and would capture CO2 and sequester it in a deep saline aquifer. Shell's Quebec-based subsidiary, Cansolv, provided the technology to capture both CO2 and sulphur dioxide, and said the project will help prove the viability of the technology and pave the way for future projects.

While critics question the viability of CCS, both the International Energy Agency and the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change continue to promote it as a critical piece of the puzzle as the world moves to reduce carbon emissions in order to avert the worst impacts of climate change.

"When humanity really gets serious about reducing emissions, fossil-fuel-endowed regions are likely to pursue carbon storage in addition to many different renewables, and perhaps some forms of nuclear," said Mark Jaccard, an energy economist at Simon Fraser University and climate activist. "There is no one-size-fits-all for the planet. But it is difficult to believe that fossil-fuel-endowed regions will simply stop completely the exploitation of all fossil fuels. Even with the extra cost of CCS, this option will often be the cheapest way to get dependable energy."

A recent report by the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate concluded that the world could boost economic growth even while tackling climate change, but described CCS as a key component in keeping down the costs of action. Projects like SaskPower's Boundary Dam plant are important to reduce its cost, said Michael Levi, a fellow on energy and environment at the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations. But eventually, companies will need regulations or market-based carbon prices to justify investment in CCS, he said.

Editor's note: Royal Dutch Shell PLC's carbon capture and storage project at its Scotford upgrader will sequester carbon dioxide in a deep saline aquifer. An earlier version of this story incorrectly said the carbon dioxide would be shipped to oil producers near Edmonton for use in oil recovery.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-reso...
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DonDeeHippy
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #56 - Jun 4th, 2018 at 3:17pm
 
juliar wrote on Jun 4th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
Sillly old Greeny type DDH is upset at being exposed as yet another Greeny type fraud who is totally ignorant of technical stuff but just wants to try to get noticed.

Now something to send the dumb Greeny types into apoplexy - but they are like that normally I hear you say.


You won me over by the unemotional intro yet again  Wink Wink Wink
is technical stuff a scientific term ? Tongue
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lee
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #57 - Jun 4th, 2018 at 3:49pm
 
You have to talk to the level of competence of the reader (you). Wink
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juliar
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #58 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 10:59am
 
Silly old DDH confirms the worst suspicions.
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DonDeeHippy
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Re: Sounds like coal is finished
Reply #59 - Jun 7th, 2018 at 6:33am
 
This is the first thread that hasn't been a sensationalist Lie Jules ... Well Done  Wink Wink Wink
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