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Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews (Read 5415 times)
freediver
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #30 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:52am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:26am:
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 10:54am:
And why did you yourself argue that there was a point in justifying it at the same time as denying it?


That was my bad. I thought I could make a rational academic point about a hypothetical without forevermore being labelled the all-time worst racist.

Boy was I wrong.

The fact that you continue to shriek emotive hyperbole like "slaughter" (and other times "genocide") for the wholly unremarkable alleged execution of some soldiers who had conspired with the victors enemies to bring down an entire society - shows how sensible this debate will ever get.


How many Jews do you think Muhammad slaughtered Gandalf? Academically speaking, of course.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #31 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 1:31pm
 
Just out of interest FD, if you could conceive of a historical scenario in which soldiers were sentenced to death for conspiring with the enemy who were in the process of laying siege against you during war time - would you always call it "slaughter"?

The most plausible version of history to me is that Muhammad executed the ring leaders of the conspiracy. Or "slaughtered" them, if you prefer.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #32 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 2:18pm
 
If they were unarmed, defenceless prisoners who had not killed anyone, and you slaughtered them, I would still call it slaughter, no matter how vigorously you polish that turd.

How many Jews do you think Muhammad slaughtered in these genocides you insist "did not actually happen" Gandalf? Last I heard you had it down to a few hundred in one event. Is that what you mean by not actually happening?
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #33 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 2:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 2:18pm:
If they were unarmed, defenceless prisoners who had not killed anyone, and you slaughtered them, I would still call it slaughter, no matter how vigorously you polish that turd.


I must say I'm not overly familiar with capital punishment that doesn't involve disarming and restrainment beforehand.

Can you enlighten me FD? Are these the capital punishments we don't call "slaughter"?

Are you saying it wouldn't have been 'slaughter' if only Muhammad let them hold a sword while they were being beheaded?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #34 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 2:48pm
 
Are you saying it wasn't a slaughter?
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #35 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 3:02pm
 
I'm saying that by your logic every capital punishment that doesn't involve disaming and restrainment must be 'slaughter'.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #36 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 5:06pm
 
Slaughter generally involves a lot of killing Gandalf.

How many Jews do you think Muhammad slaughtered in these genocides you insist "did not actually happen" Gandalf?
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #37 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
Most likely the ringleaders were killed - maybe about a dozen, possibly more, were "slaughtered" in this horrific, never-before-seen-in-history, epic genocide
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #38 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:15am
 
I recall you saying two or three hundred before. This is the first time I recall that you have said a dozen. Did you just make that up?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #39 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 1:58pm
 
you recall wrong.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #40 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 2:39pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Most likely the ringleaders were killed - maybe about a dozen, possibly more, were "slaughtered" in this horrific, never-before-seen-in-history, epic genocide


With the Banu Qurayza 800-900 jewish men had their heads chopped off in a single day.

If the child had pubic hair his head was chopped off.

I don't know how muslims can keep a straight face while downplaying this slaughter.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #41 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 2:52pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
With the Banu Qurayza 800-900 jewish men had their heads chopped off in a single day.


Are you certain thats the final figure?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #42 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 2:54pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
With the Banu Qurayza 800-900 jewish men had their heads chopped off in a single day.


Are you certain thats the final figure?



Are you claiming the Islamic sources for that figure are wrong?
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #43 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 3:14pm
 
Yes but thats not the point. The point is you apparently are claiming that they are wrong too.

Or perhaps you were unaware that not one of the "Islamic" sources put the figure at between 800-900?

Quote:
According to Ibn Ishaq, some 600-900 combatants were executed in
the market place in Madinah in special trenches dug for them;


Quote:
The words of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are identical.
The wording of Tirmizi is a bit different. It is reported that S‘ad ordered the killing of their ‘men’ (and not their combatants) and enslavement of their ‘women’ (children are not mentioned) so thatthey could assist Muslims. Tirmizi’s report puts their number at 400.


Quote:
The episode is also mentioned in al-Juzjani’s work on hadith.5 Ahmad
b. Hanbal has also mentioned the S‘ad ruling.6
The words of the first report are similar to that of Tirmizi with the only difference that the
later mentions the enslavement of children as well. Ahmad also puts their number to be 400.


Quote:
According to another commentator of hadith, they were between 600 to 800 in number.


http://www.iiu.edu.pk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/journals/ilr/volume1/num-2/Vo...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muhammad and the Khaybar Jews
Reply #44 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 3:19pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 1:58pm:
you recall wrong.


Did you ever argue that Muhammad slaughtered "only" a few hundred Jews in one day?
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