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Date for By-Elections (Read 4427 times)
Frank
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #45 - May 25th, 2018 at 9:42pm
 
Not in these 5 byelections, arsie. Keep up.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #46 - May 25th, 2018 at 9:46pm
 
I see.  The others caused by Libs/Nats don't count.  I get it now.

".....and the High Court will so hold."

Nah.....the High Court turfed Joyce despite Turnbull telling it what it "will so hold."

Smiley
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #47 - May 25th, 2018 at 10:30pm
 
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 9:42pm:
Not in these 5 byelections, arsie. Keep up.

Keep shifting those goalposts ...
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Frank
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #48 - May 26th, 2018 at 1:02pm
 
Bam wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 10:30pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2018 at 9:42pm:
Not in these 5 byelections, arsie. Keep up.

Keep shifting those goalposts ...

I thought you were bellyaching about the 5 byelections' date.
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2018 at 10:09pm by Frank »  

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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #49 - May 26th, 2018 at 1:07pm
 
It is quite sad to see the ALP upset over the date of the byelections.  Surely they remember that this whole citizenship business was started by a Labor MP, (not sure if it was Plibersek or another female), with a phone call to New Zealand to attack Barnaby Joyce.  My guess is that Ludlam was warned in advance, but they forgot to check their own.   

I think it is just about the Karma that what she started has come back to bite them, so let's hope they learn to stick to the politics and desist from the dirty tricks in future.  It is good to maintain one's political beliefs and goals, but not at the expense of one's own dignity.  That is un-Australian.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #50 - May 26th, 2018 at 1:27pm
 
Imrah wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 1:07pm:
It is quite sad to see the ALP upset over the date of the byelections.  Surely they remember that this whole citizenship business was started by a Labor MP, (not sure if it was Plibersek or another female), with a phone call to New Zealand to attack Barnaby Joyce.  My guess is that Ludlam was warned in advance, but they forgot to check their own. 


Neither.  It was a staffer in Wong's Office.  

Quote:
I think it is just about the Karma that what she started has come back to bite them, so let's hope they learn to stick to the politics and desist from the dirty tricks in future.  It is good to maintain one's political beliefs and goals, but not at the expense of one's own dignity.  That is un-Australian.


Nah, I'll tell you what is truly unAustralian and that is to be in Parliament getting paid handsomely with all the lurks and perks....and not be legally entitled to be there, ripping Aussie taxpayers off.....and that included a Deputy Prime Minister of very doubtful personal integrity across a range of subjects.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #51 - May 26th, 2018 at 1:44pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 1:27pm:
...  paid handsomely with all the lurks and perks....and not be legally entitled to be there, ripping Aussie taxpayers off.....and that included a Deputy Prime Minister of very doubtful personal integrity across a range of subjects.

Too right, Aussie.  Thanks for your reply.  Indeed I would like to see every dollar that every politician who is not entitled to be elected due to Section 44 be paid back, at least the salaries if their office expenses are too hard to calculate.  They were wrongly paid, due to their own negligence of the Constitution which should have been the one document that they studied most closely before nominating.

At least Joyce is back in legitimately now, and his was always a bit of a grey area - *the unknown decendancy part.  Still, Australians want our politicians to be 100% Australian, and govern the country like it is their only one.  After all that, I am in some ways pleased that the ALP, (thanks for the clarification), started this business, because it has been reassuring to know that we are not being dictated to by the Chinese government, or any other nation which is not Australia. 

* I too have a long gone grand father who was apparently an officer in the Spanish Navy in WW-II, but I don't think that the EU would take my word for it if I wanted to emigrate.  I never met him and nor did my father.  I understand how a malicious political opponent might try to drag such a thing up about me if I was ever dumb enough to run for election, even if it is a hypothetical technicality.  I understand how Joyce must have felt about such a dirty ploy.  It is not what 'The Opposition' is meant to be doing as opposition.  They are meant to argue the politics, but I guess with a one-seat majority, it was maybe seen as fair game.  Certainly not in the interests of Australians, as we are about to find out in July.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #52 - May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm
 
Imrah wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
[quote author=Aussie link=1527139282/50#50 date=1527305242]...  paid handsomely with all the lurks and perks....and not be legally entitled to be there, ripping Aussie taxpayers off.....and that included a Deputy Prime Minister of very doubtful personal integrity across a range of subjects.


Quote:
Too right, Aussie.  Thanks for your reply.  Indeed I would like to see every dollar that every politician who is not entitled to be elected due to Section 44 be paid back, at least the salaries if their office expenses are too hard to calculate.  They were wrongly paid, due to their own negligence of the Constitution which should have been the one document that they studied most closely before nominating.


It is far worse than that.  On the very Form they sign to nominate to be a Candidate is an elephant in the room notification of their obligations under S 44 including a strongly worded warning that to falsely complete the nomination in light of S.44, there are serious criminal consequences.  The whole of Section 44 is included in the Notice on that Nomination Form.  How on Earth it would not have crossed the bloated boozing bonking beetroot's mind to check given he well knew his Father was a born and bred Kiwi is not only grossly negligent and cavalier, it is bizarre....and he was the Deputy PM.

Quote:
At least Joyce is back in legitimately now, and his was always a bit of a grey area - *the unknown decendancy part.  Still, Australians want our politicians to be 100% Australian, and govern the country like it is their only one.


There was nothing grey about it as the High Court took little time to make very clear.  Even Joyce knew he was stuffed.  This is what he said after the Court's decision:

Quote:
"I was always prepared for this outcome. I don't actually stand here totally surprised," he said.



Quote:
After all that, I am in some ways pleased that the ALP, (thanks for the clarification), started this business, because it has been reassuring to know that we are not being dictated to by the Chinese government, or any other nation which is not Australia.
 

Quote:
* I too have a long gone grand father who was apparently an officer in the Spanish Navy in WW-II, but I don't think that the EU would take my word for it if I wanted to emigrate.  I never met him and nor did my father.  I understand how a malicious political opponent might try to drag such a thing up about me if I was ever dumb enough to run for election, even if it is a hypothetical technicality.  I understand how Joyce must have felt about such a dirty ploy.


To ensure the Deputy PM of Australia is lawfully occupying a seat in Parliament is far from a dirty ploy.  It is a civic duty on every Australian.


Quote:
It is not what 'The Opposition' is meant to be doing as opposition.  They are meant to argue the politics, but I guess with a one-seat majority, it was maybe seen as fair game.  Certainly not in the interests of Australians, as we are about to find out in July.


The Opposition, like every Australian has that said civic duty.  On the 28th July, the Libs might get Mayo back from Xenophone's ex mob, and might get Longman held by the ALP with just a margin of 0.08%.  If they don't, it will be an indictment on Turnbull's Leadership and Government.  The ALP and Shorten have far less to lose.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #53 - May 26th, 2018 at 2:23pm
 
It has been a total wankfest and a total waste of  taxpayers' money.

Parties who were affected should have been able renounce their dual citizenship then get on with the job of running the Country

Really what has this dog's breakfast achieved?

F....all that's what!
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #54 - May 26th, 2018 at 2:28pm
 
red baron wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:23pm:
It has been a total wankfest and a total waste of  taxpayers' money.

Parties who were affected should have been able renounce their dual citizenship then get on with the job of running the Country

Really what has this dog's breakfast achieved?

F....all that's what!


You never fail to disappoint, Mr Baron.  Keep up the great work on those cliches.

As for the only point you made......are you saying Australians should just ignore the Constitution whenever it is convenient to do so?  Just comply with the bits you are okay with and breach the rest?
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #55 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:00pm
 
What an informative reply!  Thank you.

Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
It is far worse than that.  ... to falsely complete the nomination in light of S.44, there are serious criminal consequences.  The whole of Section 44 is included in the Notice on that Nomination Form. 

Personally I consider it High Treason to fraudulently enter an election, denying the democratic governance of Australia.  Life imprisonment would be an appropriate means to avoid anyone trying such a thing again.

Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
How on Earth it would not have crossed the bloated boozing bonking beetroot's mind to check given he well knew his Father was a born and bred Kiwi is not only grossly negligent and cavalier, it is bizarre....and he was the Deputy PM.

There was nothing grey about it as the High Court took little time to make very clear.  Even Joyce knew he was stuffed. 

I take it you have personal issues with Mr Joyce's skin colour and personal life?  It is not helpful to our discussion but quite a funny take on it nevertheless.

New Zealand does stand out as our closest cousin, and there are specific visa rules for Kiwis in Australia and I assume vice-versa, so considering the numbers of wrongly-elected politicians we've so far heard about, my
guess is that many candidates never gave it much thought until that cataclysmic phone call last year.  Now I am glad that they have cut out the deadwood, as such.  I don't mind Barnaby, myself.  One positive I see in him is that his public persona tends to reflect traditional Australian values.  No wonder he's such an endangered species lately.

I assume you remember the second onslaught against Joyce over his personal life.  It does tend to point to there being a deliberate campaign against him personally since that phone call.  It has a nasty smell all over it, so I am glad he's overcome both of those attacks.  He is not a criminal.  He is just not a Labor politician.  That was his crime IMHO.
Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
To ensure the Deputy PM of Australia is lawfully occupying a seat in Parliament is far from a dirty ploy.  It is a civic duty on every Australian.

The Opposition, like every Australian has that said civic duty. 

Don't be silly, Aussie.  You are clutching at straws here.  It is firstly the duty of every candidate in an election to ensure that they themselves are 100% Australian, and like I explained about my own heritage, there are grey areas in every individual circumstance, moreover Kiwis and Australians have quite a unique relationship.  I can understand how he may have been caught out, like I mentioned before. 

I have less understanding of the other cases I have seen on the ABC news, particularly the Lamb explanation that her mother doesn't like her anymore.  I wonder what reason her mother has for that?  Perhaps her mother could enlighten us as to why Ms Lamb is best to stay out of the public eye and politics, but we shouldn't stoop so low as to dredge up the personal relationships of others.

Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
The ALP and Shorten have far less to lose.

Are not at least two of the contested seats, (not Perth or Fremantle) currently help by Labor?  History tells us that oppositions almost always win byelections so Labor doesn't have much to lose in reality, but the Libs don't expect to win Labor seats in July, and they should still have the majority.  Maybe I am not understanding your meaning properly.  Do you mean loss of reputation? 

I don't think that Bill Shorten has much of a reputation left after his rolled-gold stuffup, but I'll guess that Labor will win all the seats contested and the Libs will come out of it with the same one-seat majority.

I am really feeling some good release after our discussion, Aussie.  We don't agree but it has been a great relief for me to have a word on these political matters, and I hope we can argue like this again some time.  Thank You.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #56 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:24pm
 
Quote:
.....and I hope we can argue like this again some time.  Thank You.


No problem.  And I am sure we will, and you will find I am one of the more polite posters here, unlike some of the right who can be very, very unpleasant.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #57 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:43pm
 
Imrah wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
What an informative reply!  Thank you.

Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
It is far worse than that.  ... to falsely complete the nomination in light of S.44, there are serious criminal consequences.  The whole of Section 44 is included in the Notice on that Nomination Form. 

Personally I consider it High Treason to fraudulently enter an election, denying the democratic governance of Australia.  Life imprisonment would be an appropriate means to avoid anyone trying such a thing again.

Not sure I'd take it that far, but it is very disappointing that not ONE of the disqualified MPs suffered any penalty, other than disqualification.


Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
How on Earth it would not have crossed the bloated boozing bonking beetroot's mind to check given he well knew his Father was a born and bred Kiwi is not only grossly negligent and cavalier, it is bizarre....and he was the Deputy PM.

There was nothing grey about it as the High Court took little time to make very clear.  Even Joyce knew he was stuffed. 

I take it you have personal issues with Mr Joyce's skin colour and personal life?  It is not helpful to our discussion but quite a funny take on it nevertheless.

Well, no, I have no problem with his skin colour and yes I do have a problem with his personal ethics and integrity which seem to be totally non-existent.  This makes the point very succinctly:

'Who's your Daddy, Sebastian?"

Joyce is a bloated, bonking, boozing beetroot, undeniably.


New Zealand does stand out as our closest cousin, and there are specific visa rules for Kiwis in Australia and I assume vice-versa, so considering the numbers of wrongly-elected politicians we've so far heard about, my
guess is that many candidates never gave it much thought until that cataclysmic phone call last year. 

Passport/visa arrangements between Australia and NZ have been pretty much the same as with any other Country.


Now I am glad that they have cut out the deadwood, as such.  I don't mind Barnaby, myself.  One positive I see in him is that his public persona tends to reflect traditional Australian values.  No wonder he's such an endangered species lately.

I do not regard it as an Australian value to be bonking the taxpayer funded staffers, being a blatant brazen adulterer, having taxpayers pay for your bit of fluff to tour around with you, betray such a loyal Wife and Family, then....make it appear as though your bit of fluff is screwing around with others who might be the father of Sebastian, and now cash in to the tune of $250,000.00 on sleazy grubby behaviour.


I assume you remember the second onslaught against Joyce over his personal life.  It does tend to point to there being a deliberate campaign against him personally since that phone call. 

I am unsure what you are referring to.


It has a nasty smell all over it, so I am glad he's overcome both of those attacks.  He is not a criminal.  He is just not a Labor politician.  That was his crime IMHO.

No....his 'crimes' were/are as we have discussed.


Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
To ensure the Deputy PM of Australia is lawfully occupying a seat in Parliament is far from a dirty ploy.  It is a civic duty on every Australian.

The Opposition, like every Australian has that said civic duty. 

Don't be silly, Aussie.  You are clutching at straws here.  It is firstly the duty of every candidate in an election to ensure that they themselves are 100% Australian, and like I explained about my own heritage, there are grey areas in every individual circumstance, moreover Kiwis and Australians have quite a unique relationship.  I can understand how he may have been caught out, like I mentioned before.


The High Court is less understanding than you.
 

I have less understanding of the other cases I have seen on the ABC news, particularly the Lamb explanation that her mother doesn't like her anymore.  I wonder what reason her mother has for that?  Perhaps her mother could enlighten us as to why Ms Lamb is best to stay out of the public eye and politics, but we shouldn't stoop so low as to dredge up the personal relationships of others.

I have no idea.


Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
The ALP and Shorten have far less to lose.

Are not at least two of the contested seats, (not Perth or Fremantle) currently help by Labor?  History tells us that oppositions almost always win byelections so Labor doesn't have much to lose in reality, but the Libs don't expect to win Labor seats in July, and they should still have the majority.  Maybe I am not understanding your meaning properly.  Do you mean loss of reputation? 

I don't think that Bill Shorten has much of a reputation left after his rolled-gold stuffup, but I'll guess that Labor will win all the seats contested and the Libs will come out of it with the same one-seat majority.

I am really feeling some good release after our discussion, Aussie.  We don't agree but it has been a great relief for me to have a word on these political matters, and I hope we can argue like this again some time.  Thank You.
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #58 - May 26th, 2018 at 3:51pm
 
Quote:
Are not at least two of the contested seats, (not Perth or Fremantle) currently help by Labor?


Yes, Braddon in which the ALP have a margin of 4.78%.  No-one is seriously suggesting the Libs can take it.  Longman, ALP held by a very slim 0.08%.  Libs will fancy their chances there and will concentrate many resources.
 
Quote:
History tells us that oppositions almost always win byelections so Labor doesn't have much to lose in reality, but the Libs don't expect to win Labor seats in July, and they should still have the majority.  Maybe I am not understanding your meaning properly.  Do you mean loss of reputation?


I mean in a political sense.

Quote:
I don't think that Bill Shorten has much of a reputation left after his rolled-gold stuffup, but I'll guess that Labor will win all the seats contested and the Libs will come out of it with the same one-seat majority.


His alleged 'rolled gold stuff up' is not as embarrassing as that of QC Turnbull who told us what the High Court would find in Joyce's case.

Who will ever forget.....'And the High Court will so hold.'
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Re: Date for By-Elections
Reply #59 - May 26th, 2018 at 4:13pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 3:51pm:
His alleged 'rolled gold stuff up' is not as embarrassing as that of QC Turnbull who told us what the High Court would find in Joyce's case.

Who will ever forget.....'And the High Court will so hold.'

Joyce is still around, Aussie.  He won that byelection if you recall.

Anyway, there is so much red ink up there that I might give it a rest on a Saturday afternoon and not argue any further.  Let's agree to disagree over the weekend, and we can have another chat on Monday if you're available.

It has been good to argue different points of view so politely today. 
Have a good weekend.
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