freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2018 at 6:59pm:


Muhammed? Weren't we talking about Australia?

Frank wrote on May 24^th, 2018 at 7:55pm:


You haven't seen the inbreeding map?

Oh, old boy, where have you been?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2018 at 2:47pm:

Bollocks. On stilts.

Hadith. Prescribed behaviour in every imaginable situation. Islam mean Submission because that's what it demands and that is its outer limit. Look at any Muslim site, it's endless questions directed to the 'authorities' in Islamic 'knowledge' like Al Hilali and other peasants about what to do in any and all situations in life. Thinking and discovery are utterly alien to Islam. The fear of apostasy, fatwah, violence paralyses Muslims. They know what's going to happen to them if they start thinking for themselves - they get killed.


As for Allah-Muslim dialogue - you are lying and you know it, Gandalf (the 'basically' is your attempt to cover your lying arse (Karnal will be along in a moment)). There is no listening Allah, there is no truthful, knowable, approachable Allah who can be known. Allah is unknowable. You can't have a dialogue with the numinous, not even 'basically'. But Allah is not even numinous. he is a gauche and laughable creation of Mohammed. The Koran is full of evidence of Mohammed's complete misunderstanding of Judaism, Christianity and anything else he came across. The Muslim response to this is to say that the Jews and Christians have distorted their teachings ahead of Mohammed's arrival.

And to think that you CONVERTED to this!!!!

Frank wrote on May 25^th, 2018 at 6:28pm:


If you think about it, the last two sentences are not logically consistent with the rest of the paragraph.

You start out by saying Islam is doctrinally opposed to free thinking and discovery, then conclude by saying muslims are paralysed from doing that from fear of death. So you leave open the possibility that at least some muslims want to be free thinkers, and presumably don't consider it anathema to their religion - only they are prevented from doing so by other muslims. Note you didn't say that muslims are 'paralysed' by their conviction that free thinking is anathema to their beliefs - merely that they are terrified by the intimidation of other muslims (and might otherwise be perfectly happy with fusing learning and discovery with their religion).

So once again, we see the usual flawed logic of framing Islam as what some muslims deem it to be while ignoring the rest.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 3:29pm:


http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Faith_Ratchet

A faith ratchet, or ideological ratchet, is a belief system that incorporates a mechanism for preventing dissent. A faith ratchet grows in a fundamentally different way to most ideological movements. Rather than being adopted at a faster rate than it is abandoned, it grows by preventing people from abandoning it, meaning that the idea will spread no matter how slowly it is adopted, or how limited the circumstances are in which it is appealing. A faith ratchet typically presents two faces, one to the outside world to which it is attempting to appeal intellectually, and the other internally, where it employs a very different technique to maintain its grip. That is, the mechanism by which it spreads is very different to the mechanism by which it prevents abandonment. This article explains the analogy to a ratchet, then gives examples of a ideological ratchets in action, including the historical spread of Islam, Nazism and Communism.

Gandalf is right. It's the religion that is the problem, not the people.

Frank wrote on May 31^st, 2018 at 8:12pm:


So I'm wondering why they 'think outside the straight-jacket of Muhammedan lunacy' in the first place - if its really "anathema to their religion".

Do you understand the logical fallacy yet?