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"we need to value add" (Read 4277 times)
freediver
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"we need to value add"
May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?
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longweekend58
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #1 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:37pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


The idea is good, but what of you cannot compete on 'value add'? After all, do you think people have never thought of this before? We do in fact sell steel but it is competitive and not helped by Trumps stupid tariffs. Making clothing has long since gone to the third world and as for making uranium fuel rods... its not a manufacturing issue. The nuclear industry is highly regulated and we cannot simply 'decide' to make fissionable material without international discussion and approval without sanctions. Are you not watching the Iran nuclear issue>?
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Bobby
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #2 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:48pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:37pm:
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


The idea is good, but what of you cannot compete on 'value add'? After all, do you think people have never thought of this before? We do in fact sell steel but it is competitive and not helped by Trumps stupid tariffs. Making clothing has long since gone to the third world and as for making uranium fuel rods... its not a manufacturing issue. The nuclear industry is highly regulated and we cannot simply 'decide' to make fissionable material without international discussion and approval without sanctions. Are you not watching the Iran nuclear issue>?



We could get permission to make fuel rods easily.
The IAEA would allow us - we just need the right permits & inspections.
What we lack is the nuclear technology.
Even Iran is way ahead of us.
We need a nuclear industry here -
we can't just be a country that digs holes in the ground & ships stuff off for others to make money out of.

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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #3 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:49pm
 
The stupidity I don't understand is the grubberment going off shore for tenders
(Unless they are being given brown paper bags to do it)

If a project costs 40 million off shore for ships and subs
And the same project costs 60 million in Australia

The stupid politicians and corrupt public serve us go for the 40 million that will never come back to Australia

At least if the turnips chose the Australian quote, they would
1) keep the money in Australia
2) keep the taxes in Australia
3) use Australian workers and materials
4) keep Australians in skilled work.

But because our politicians and public serve us are so corrupt it's just not funny
They get huge donations(bribes) and build up their bank accounts.

I hate Australian politicians and the Australian grubberment
A pox on them all
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I HAVE A DREAM
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SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #4 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:53pm
 
We cant even break even producing cars, value adding is out of our league
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #5 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm
 
Valkie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
The stupidity I don't understand is the grubberment going off shore for tenders
(Unless they are being given brown paper bags to do it)

If a project costs 40 million off shore for ships and subs
And the same project costs 60 million in Australia

The stupid politicians and corrupt public serve us go for the 40 million that will never come back to Australia

At least if the turnips chose the Australian quote, they would
1) keep the money in Australia
2) keep the taxes in Australia
3) use Australian workers and materials
4) keep Australians in skilled work.

But because our politicians and public serve us are so corrupt it's just not funny
They get huge donations(bribes) and build up their bank accounts.

I hate Australian politicians and the Australian grubberment
A pox on them all


That's not true, Matty. You have nothing against politicians, it's just the Boongs, Darkies, Chows, Tree Monkeys, Sand Negros and Muslims you can't stand.
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Bobby
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #6 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm
 
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #7 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:56pm
 
We need to sell steel not iron ore.

BHP closed down nearly every steel mill.
People are now buying low quality steel from China &
it's even caused bridges to collapse.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #8 - May 12th, 2018 at 6:58pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Same answer applies right across your simplistic crap, Bobby.

Cost of labour.
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Bobby
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #9 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Same answer applies right across your simplistic crap, Bobby.

Cost of labour.



Clothing is made by machines not
1000s of workers there with knitting needles
knitting a jumper.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #10 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:05pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Same answer applies right across your simplistic crap, Bobby.

Cost of labour.



Clothing is made by machines not
1000s of workers there with knitting needles
knitting a jumper.


Really......so a bale of wool arrives at some factory driven there by a vehicle with no driver.....and from that point on.....with no human labour intervention, it turns into clothing.

Wake up, grow up.
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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
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A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
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Bobby
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #11 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:07pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:05pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Same answer applies right across your simplistic crap, Bobby.

Cost of labour.



Clothing is made by machines not
1000s of workers there with knitting needles
knitting a jumper.


Really......so a bale of wool arrives at some factory driven there by a vehicle with no driver.....and from that point on.....with no human labour intervention, it turns into clothing.

Wake up, grow up.



We don't even make shoes here anymore.
No wonder we're so much in debt.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #12 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:25pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


Who are we looking after shutting down all our industry & offshoring & importing everything?

It certainly isn't everyday Australians.

The cost of labour is just a cop out.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Gnads
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #13 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:05pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:58pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Same answer applies right across your simplistic crap, Bobby.

Cost of labour.



Clothing is made by machines not
1000s of workers there with knitting needles
knitting a jumper.


Really......so a bale of wool arrives at some factory driven there by a vehicle with no driver.....and from that point on.....with no human labour intervention, it turns into clothing.

Wake up, grow up.


And who grows & nurtures the sheep, who shears the sheep, classes the wool, puts it in the press,moves the full bale, loads it on the trucks, the unloads at the agents to be reloaded into containers, who loads it on the ships?

The labour component to turn that wool into a saleable garment here is only a small portion of the overall production costs.

The same can be applied to much of our export commodities like iron ore & aluminum oxide.  Roll Eyes
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Karnal
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #14 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:34pm
 
Aussie Aussie Aussie, no?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #15 - May 12th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
Quote:
And who grows & nurtures the sheep, who shears the sheep, classes the wool, puts it in the press,moves the full bale, loads it on the trucks, the unloads at the agents to be reloaded into containers, who loads it on the ships?

The labour component to turn that wool into a saleable garment here is only a small portion of the overall production costs.

The same can be applied to much of our export commodities like iron ore & aluminum oxide.  Roll Eyes


Absolutely correct and ALL of that is part of the recipe of being able to compete with overseas markets/factories.

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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
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A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #16 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:30pm
 
Quote:
we can't just be a country that digs holes in the ground & ships stuff off for others to make money out of.


We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.

Quote:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.
Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


And baskets. Why sell rolls of wicker to the Balinese when we can weave it into perfectly good baskets for them to sell to drunken tourists?

Quote:
Who are we looking after shutting down all our industry & offshoring & importing everything?


Ourselves. Would you rather be driving a truck in a mine for $150k a year or running a woolly jumper machine for $10 a day?

If, after a day of work, you could sell 2 tonnes of ore for $2000 or one tonne of processed ore for $1100, which would you choose?

Where does this imaginary "need" come from? We live in a global economy. We buy televisions, ipads, cars, etc from all over the world, that we could not hope to make here. What is so special about a certain position in the supply chain that we have to occupy it over another? The competitive advantage the Chinese have is their low wages. Our competitive advantage is natural resources and an educated population. Why do we "need" to swap places with them?
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Karnal
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #17 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:39pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 8:30pm:
Quote:
we can't just be a country that digs holes in the ground & ships stuff off for others to make money out of.


We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


Yes, but that might run the risk of bringing in the Irish and the tinted races.

Not nice, dear, and not sustainable.
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freediver
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #18 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:50pm
 
Just a friendly reminder - if you use the word "sell" five or more times in one post it will trip the spam detector and you will be timed out for 50 minutes.
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Karnal
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #19 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:59pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 8:50pm:
Just a friendly reminder - if you use the word "sell" five or more times in one post it will trip the spam detector and you will be timed out for 50 minutes.


That passport guy's pretty good. Anyway, he's pretty much giving his passports away. $3000 for an unused Pakistani passport.

BUY NOW.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #20 - May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm
 
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.



We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #21 - May 12th, 2018 at 11:42pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:37pm:
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


The idea is good, but what of you cannot compete on 'value add'? After all, do you think people have never thought of this before? We do in fact sell steel but it is competitive and not helped by Trumps stupid tariffs. Making clothing has long since gone to the third world and as for making uranium fuel rods... its not a manufacturing issue. The nuclear industry is highly regulated and we cannot simply 'decide' to make fissionable material without international discussion and approval without sanctions. Are you not watching the Iran nuclear issue>?


So how does germany compete making premium quality cars and exporting them all around the world ? You don't always have to race to the bottom and make nickle and dime trinkets for the masses. Of course we are going to lose out if we go down this path !
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Karnal
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #22 - May 12th, 2018 at 11:43pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.



We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Good point, Bobby. When we add the tariffs, ban imports and ban all the tinted races in the fullness of time, we can move to 3rd world status even quicker.

You gotta have a dream, no?
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Sir lastnail
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #23 - May 12th, 2018 at 11:45pm
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 8:30pm:
Quote:
we can't just be a country that digs holes in the ground & ships stuff off for others to make money out of.


We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


Selling degrees to foreigners who end up using it to put us out of business. Great short term strategy until they work out how to offer their own degrees !!

Jeez this is bottom of the barell stuff isn't it Sad
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Sir lastnail
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #24 - May 12th, 2018 at 11:50pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.



We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper. KPMG, Ernst Young, Deloitte etc. All rubbish service sector companies sucking the tax payers dry to the tune of $420 mill a year. Their value add is absolutely zero with no real export potential.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #25 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:22am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:50pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.



We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish


Now now, LN, I'll have you know we imported the old boy, and his stool is divine.

It's his Mormor's secret recipe.Multiculturalism, innit.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #26 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:00am
 
Gnads wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:25pm:
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


Who are we looking after shutting down all our industry & offshoring & importing everything?

It certainly isn't everyday Australians.

The cost of labour is just a cop out.



You're right,
we can't keep shutting down our industries but
I know it's hard to compete with China where
they pay their workers a bowl of rice per day.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #27 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:01am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:50pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.



We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper. KPMG, Ernst Young, Deloitte etc. All rubbish service sector companies sucking the tax payers dry to the tune of $420 mill a year. Their value add is absolutely zero with no real export potential.



Yes - why can't we be a huge exporter like Germany?
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #28 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:25am
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:48pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:37pm:
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


The idea is good, but what of you cannot compete on 'value add'? After all, do you think people have never thought of this before? We do in fact sell steel but it is competitive and not helped by Trumps stupid tariffs. Making clothing has long since gone to the third world and as for making uranium fuel rods... its not a manufacturing issue. The nuclear industry is highly regulated and we cannot simply 'decide' to make fissionable material without international discussion and approval without sanctions. Are you not watching the Iran nuclear issue>?



We could get permission to make fuel rods easily.
The IAEA would allow us - we just need the right permits & inspections.
What we lack is the nuclear technology.
Even Iran is way ahead of us.
We need a nuclear industry here -
we can't just be a country that digs holes in the ground & ships stuff off for others to make money out of.



It is not 'easy' at all. The global nuclear non-proliferation treaty expressly forbids it. There is also no good reason to do it either. Creating fissionable material is an extremely complex and expensive process and there is not a good market case to make for it.

yes, Iran is 'ahead of us' and perhaps you have seen the global issue surrounding that.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #29 - May 13th, 2018 at 9:18am
 
Is there a single person here who would be willing to sacrifice part of their income to become a factory labourer in one of these industries we so desperately "need"?

Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Do you have any particular reason for believing this?

Quote:
So how does germany compete


Several ways.

They have lower wages.

They have 4 times the population and are very close to other large population centres, so they have economies of scale. This is particularly important for the modern car industry.

They are close to the bulk of their customers, in terms of transport cost.

They do not have relatively large mining, tourism etc sectors competing for employees.

Despite this, the Europeans are slowly losing out to the Asians who are better placed on all these scales.

And despite all this, Australia does actually still compete in the car industry in those sectors where we have a natural competitive advantage. Bolting the cars together is not one of them.

Quote:
You don't always have to race to the bottom and make nickle and dime trinkets for the masses.


That's what cars are these days. They are old technology. They have been around for over a century. They have the imagery and emotional attachment to what made our nations great, but time have changed.

Quote:
Selling degrees to foreigners who end up using it to put us out of business.


They are going to get the degrees whether we profit from it or not. Might as well profit from it.

Quote:
Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper.


Yes, that's why. We all get paid to much. We should be more like all those German labourers getting paid half as much to work a lathe.

Quote:
we can't keep shutting down our industries


They shut themselves down because they lose all their good employees to better paying industries.

Quote:
Yes - why can't we be a huge exporter like Germany?


Relative to our population, we are a bigger exporter and focus on the higher wage industries.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #30 - May 13th, 2018 at 9:59am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Is there a single person here who would be willing to sacrifice part of their income to become a factory labourer in one of these industries we so desperately "need"?

Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Do you have any particular reason for believing this?

Quote:
So how does germany compete


Several ways.

They have lower wages.

They have 4 times the population and are very close to other large population centres, so they have economies of scale. This is particularly important for the modern car industry.

They are close to the bulk of their customers, in terms of transport cost.

They do not have relatively large mining, tourism etc sectors competing for employees.

Despite this, the Europeans are slowly losing out to the Asians who are better placed on all these scales.

And despite all this, Australia does actually still compete in the car industry in those sectors where we have a natural competitive advantage. Bolting the cars together is not one of them.

Quote:
You don't always have to race to the bottom and make nickle and dime trinkets for the masses.


That's what cars are these days. They are old technology. They have been around for over a century. They have the imagery and emotional attachment to what made our nations great, but time have changed.

Quote:
Selling degrees to foreigners who end up using it to put us out of business.


They are going to get the degrees whether we profit from it or not. Might as well profit from it.

Quote:
Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper.


Yes, that's why. We all get paid to much. We should be more like all those German labourers getting paid half as much to work a lathe.

Quote:
we can't keep shutting down our industries


They shut themselves down because they lose all their good employees to better paying industries.

Quote:
Yes - why can't we be a huge exporter like Germany?


Relative to our population, we are a bigger exporter and focus on the higher wage industries.


.... but we don't export finished products so lauded by Julia Gillard in her mindless statement about Asians becoming middle class consumers of finished goods etc, and our exports are Third World exports such as cattle, sheep, ores, and the wages are vastly and increasingly spread to the point of massive social and economic division - not a general prosperity for the nation as a whole and certainly no solid underpinning of any industrial infrastructure.

At the same time - 'concentrating on higher wage industries' feeds the fear-mongering of the 'rightist' ideologues about 'competitiveness' and leads to a form of class war that we are seeing here and now..

They can't have it all ways at once... sorry 'bout that.


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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #31 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am
 
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #32 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:12am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


WE DON'T WANT THEM HERE.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #33 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:20am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.



Meat is hardly finished product..... and it seems that Australia is now only capable of importing from itself in the global market at First World prices a Third World level of steak for home consumption... shipping mountains of ore off the China proves my point.

The Japanese wanted to build an iron and steel works in the Yampi sound in the early 1930's - right where my GAIA concept is placed and right on top of the ore and the undersea gas.

"In 1934, a lease was assigned over iron ore deposits at Koolan Island in Yampi Sound off the coast of the Kimberley to companies (later assessed to be fronts for the Japanese government directed Nippon Mining Company), on condition all labour would be Australian and no Asians would be admitted.

It was the richest deposit known in Australia, and the leaseholders proposed the ore be dedicated to the Japanese market for 50 years.

In 1937, there was a public and internal government outcry when Nippon Mining proposed not to use Australian labour but to send its own engineers to construct the mine. "


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/s-couldnt-happen-again-could-t...

They also, according to 'Australia's Secret War' by Hal Colebatch, applied to build an onshore processing plant there for the iron ore.

This addiction of Australia's to being a Banana Republic and shipping off ore by the planet-load would actually appear, from this article, to be placing Australia in a poor bargaining position, by ensuring that any reduction or cessation would be viewed as a strategic threat by the current recipient.  What that means is that the provider is actually in a less powerful position than the recipient... which seems to upset the concept of 'free trade'.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #34 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:32am
 
Valkie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
The stupidity I don't understand is the grubberment going off shore for tenders
(Unless they are being given brown paper bags to do it)

If a project costs 40 million off shore for ships and subs
And the same project costs 60 million in Australia

The stupid politicians and corrupt public serve us go for the 40 million that will never come back to Australia

At least if the turnips chose the Australian quote, they would
1) keep the money in Australia
2) keep the taxes in Australia
3) use Australian workers and materials
4) keep Australians in skilled work.

But because our politicians and public serve us are so corrupt it's just not funny
They get huge donations(bribes) and build up their bank accounts.

I hate Australian politicians and the Australian grubberment
A pox on them all



Cool.............................. Cool

Yes more expensive here for sure no one can debate that.

BUT compared to the taxes they would generate which would make our economy go around, it makes them criminals to give our projects to offshore corporates.

More expensive but the government creates jobs and gets revenue from all the taxes.

Australian projects should be designed & built by Australians in Australia using Australian materials.

Hang the lotta them their not interested in advancing our nation just keeping their chairs...................... Angry

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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #35 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:35am
 
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Right on champ..... Cool

Where are the people screaming slave labour and child slave labour....???!!!
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #36 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:41am
 
The bottom line is every country in the world that has adopted the Neo Liberal policies of Milton Friedman through Globalization and free trade are over their heads in debt.

This system hoard the wealth of countries into the hands of a few rich & greedy leaches who's stomachs are an bottomless pit.

Its time for a new system.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #37 - May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #38 - May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #39 - May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #40 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:29pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Quote:
And who grows & nurtures the sheep, who shears the sheep, classes the wool, puts it in the press,moves the full bale, loads it on the trucks, the unloads at the agents to be reloaded into containers, who loads it on the ships?

The labour component to turn that wool into a saleable garment here is only a small portion of the overall production costs.

The same can be applied to much of our export commodities like iron ore & aluminum oxide.  Roll Eyes


Absolutely correct and ALL of that is part of the recipe of being able to compete with overseas markets/factories.



And my point is that Australian labour costs are also only small part of the whole ..... so exportation costs to offshore final product manufacturing should be spent on our labour costs not in foreign countries.

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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #41 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:40pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


We are not importing beef.

If you think it is a bad financial decision to export ore and import steel, invest in a local steelmaker.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #42 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:42pm
 
Freediver - bloody stupid "spam" detector.

Are you serious?

Who would be getting paid $10 a day in Australia?

Or are you supporting the payment of 3rd world wages here?

In that case a truck driver in a mine wouldn't be earning $150k per year would they?

And you fail to take into account that there are less & less full time jobs available ... dump trucks in mining are being automated to become driverless as they are also doing to the giant Iron Ore trains in the Pilbara.

It's a one way ticket to the bottom ... the lowest common denominator.

Then we will be the 3rd world country whilst the affluent burgeoning middle classes expand in the 3rd world countries we offshore everything to.

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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #43 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:45pm
 
Quote:
And you fail to take into account that there are less & less full time jobs available ... dump trucks in mining are being automated to become driverless as they are also doing to the giant Iron Ore trains in the Pilbara.

It's a one way ticket to the bottom ... the lowest common denominator.


We have been going in the same direction for several centuries, with the same doom and gloom prognosis every step of the way from people who cannot see the wood for the trees. But at the end of the day we have far higher employment rates at far higher wages.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #44 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:04pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Is there a single person here who would be willing to sacrifice part of their income to become a factory labourer in one of these industries we so desperately "need"?

Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Do you have any particular reason for believing this?

Quote:
So how does germany compete


Several ways.

They have lower wages.

They have 4 times the population and are very close to other large population centres, so they have economies of scale. This is particularly important for the modern car industry.

They are close to the bulk of their customers, in terms of transport cost.

They do not have relatively large mining, tourism etc sectors competing for employees.

Despite this, the Europeans are slowly losing out to the Asians who are better placed on all these scales.

And despite all this, Australia does actually still compete in the car industry in those sectors where we have a natural competitive advantage. Bolting the cars together is not one of them.

Quote:
You don't always have to race to the bottom and make nickle and dime trinkets for the masses.


That's what cars are these days. They are old technology. They have been around for over a century. They have the imagery and emotional attachment to what made our nations great, but time have changed.

Quote:
Selling degrees to foreigners who end up using it to put us out of business.


They are going to get the degrees whether we profit from it or not. Might as well profit from it.

Quote:
Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper.


Yes, that's why. We all get paid to much. We should be more like all those German labourers getting paid half as much to work a lathe.

Quote:
we can't keep shutting down our industries


They shut themselves down because they lose all their good employees to better paying industries.

Quote:
Yes - why can't we be a huge exporter like Germany?


Relative to our population, we are a bigger exporter and focus on the higher wage industries.


Cars are old technology? You might want to check out the technology in new cars. They are exceptional. Or id you are referring to the internal combustion engine, they are not even comparable to those 100 years ago.  Its a bit like comparing the Wright brothers first plane and an A380 and thinking that planes are 'old technology'.

But the rest of your post was very relevant.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #45 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm
 
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #46 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:08pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 12:45pm:
Quote:
And you fail to take into account that there are less & less full time jobs available ... dump trucks in mining are being automated to become driverless as they are also doing to the giant Iron Ore trains in the Pilbara.

It's a one way ticket to the bottom ... the lowest common denominator.


We have been going in the same direction for several centuries, with the same doom and gloom prognosis every step of the way from people who cannot see the wood for the trees. But at the end of the day we have far higher employment rates at far higher wages.


you are spot on. Ive been hearing this doom and gloom prognosis for decades now and Australia has one of the highest standards of living, one of the best economies and is arguably the most desirable place on earth to live. We even have fabulous weather!

Maybe some of you should be a bit more grateful that you live int he worlds best country.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #47 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:16pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!



And that is the point,

we need to add value to our exports.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #48 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:23pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.


Really? Name one.

As far cars, the advances are in the THOUSANDS to the extent that there are barely comparable.

ARGUMENTUM AD ABSURDEM
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #49 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:24pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!



And that is the point,

we need to add value to our exports.


You know we have a trade SURPLUS at present, dopey?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #50 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:31pm
 
Four pages in, and plenty of people have repeated this claim that we "need" to value add, but not a single person can explain why.

longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.


Really? Name one.

As far cars, the advances are in the THOUSANDS to the extent that there are barely comparable.

ARGUMENTUM AD ABSURDEM


You can get chips in them.

Cars are still old technology, no matter how many bells and whistles you add. That's why they are increasingly made in developing countries. No country "needs" to make them.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #51 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:37pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!



And that is the point,

we need to add value to our exports.


You know we have a trade SURPLUS at present, dopey?



Don't call me dopey - Longloser.

We would need some very large & long surpluses to pay off  $629 billion.

PS - & that is only Govt. debt.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #52 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:38pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Four pages in, and plenty of people have repeated this claim that we "need" to value add, but not a single person can explain why.

longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.


Really? Name one.

As far cars, the advances are in the THOUSANDS to the extent that there are barely comparable.

ARGUMENTUM AD ABSURDEM


You can get chips in them.

Cars are still old technology, no matter how many bells and whistles you add. That's why they are increasingly made in developing countries. No country "needs" to make them.


Thats an absurd statement. COmputers are old technology too by that reasoning. They are no different from the first programmable device.

I guess it explains a lot about you. I assume you either dont drive or your car comes from the 30s
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #53 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:39pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!



And that is the point,

we need to add value to our exports.


You know we have a trade SURPLUS at present, dopey?



Don't call me dopey - Longloser.

We would need some very large & long surpluses to pay off  $629 billion.

PS - & that is only Govt. debt.


ONly govt debt is govt concern. And we had zero debt before Rudd and Gillard. And they left a mess that the Libs are only just now looking like getting under control.

And sorry... but you ARE dopey. If you dont want to be called dopey then either talk to your mother only or stop being dopey.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #54 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:47pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Four pages in, and plenty of people have repeated this claim that we "need" to value add, but not a single person can explain why.

longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.


Really? Name one.

As far cars, the advances are in the THOUSANDS to the extent that there are barely comparable.

ARGUMENTUM AD ABSURDEM


You can get chips in them.

Cars are still old technology, no matter how many bells and whistles you add. That's why they are increasingly made in developing countries. No country "needs" to make them.


Thats an absurd statement. COmputers are old technology too by that reasoning. They are no different from the first programmable device.

I guess it explains a lot about you. I assume you either dont drive or your car comes from the 30s


Computers are not as old as cars.

Cars are, just like the model T, rubber tyres on steel rims driven by an internal combustion engine running the same thermodynamic cycle, with a padded seat to sit on and a steering wheel to control it. Adding a bucket of computer chips and getting a smoother surface doesn't really change the fundamentals of what they are, any more than putting an RFID chip on a wicker basket makes it a new technology.

There is no rational explanation why we "need" to make them here. It is just the emotional attachment to what used to be a symbol of the first world.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #55 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:55pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:39pm:
ONly govt debt is govt concern. And we had zero debt before Rudd and Gillard. And they left a mess that the Libs are only just now looking like getting under control.

And sorry... but you ARE dopey. If you dont want to be called dopey then either talk to your mother only or stop being dopey.



My Mother is dead.
Govt. debt is all our concern.
The interest bill is about $16 billion a year -
that's money that can't be spent on more important things such as hospitals, schools and yes
wait for it:
value adding to our exports.

This country should be called moronia -
it's full of losers.


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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #56 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm
 
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #57 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #58 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm
 
So why aren't you making a fortune doing so Bobby?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #59 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #60 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:48pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
So why aren't you making a fortune doing so Bobby?



To get into the nuclear reprocessing industry would require $billions
of investment & permission from the IAEA.
It's something that only a Govt. could get started on -
that's if we had a Govt. with any vision.
The return would be enormous as long as we could sell completed Uranium fuel rods.

If Thorium takes over soon then it would be a waste of money.
Then again we should be investing in Thorium research like China & India.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #61 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #62 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:39pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!



And that is the point,

we need to add value to our exports.


You know we have a trade SURPLUS at present, dopey?



Don't call me dopey - Longloser.

We would need some very large & long surpluses to pay off  $629 billion.

PS - & that is only Govt. debt.


ONly govt debt is govt concern. And we had zero debt before Rudd and Gillard. And they left a mess that the Libs are only just now looking like getting under control.

And sorry... but you ARE dopey. If you dont want to be called dopey then either talk to your mother only or stop being dopey.


You really come right out of a comic book longprong Cheesy LOL
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #63 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:51pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


We were never competitive in the auto industry because we kept doling out money to rent-a-job in detroit to make old rubbish instead of nurturing our own industries just like Germany does.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #64 - May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #65 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #66 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:12pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?


They can't see the difference between value adding to their own nation and value adding to their wallets.  Not responsible corporate citizens...
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #67 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:12pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


The Chinese can make steel at whatever 'quality' level the buyer wants, Bobby.  There is no 'one size fits all.'
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #68 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:13pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:51pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


We were never competitive in the auto industry because we kept doling out money to rent-a-job in detroit to make old rubbish instead of nurturing our own industries just like Germany does.


Exackery - there was no actual Australian automotive industry.... just a branch office or two.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #69 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:20pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:12pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


The Chinese can make steel at whatever 'quality' level the buyer wants, Bobby.  There is no 'one size fits all.'



Nonsense - Chinese steel is one of the lowest qualities in the world.

It's rubbish.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #70 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:21pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:13pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:51pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


We were never competitive in the auto industry because we kept doling out money to rent-a-job in detroit to make old rubbish instead of nurturing our own industries just like Germany does.


Exackery - there was no actual Australian automotive industry.... just a branch office or two.



And the overseas office didn't allow Australia to make an electric car.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #71 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:22pm
 
Quote:
Nonsense - Chinese steel is one of the lowest qualities in the world.

It's rubbish.


Google 'grades of steel' Bobby.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #72 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Quote:
Nonsense - Chinese steel is one of the lowest qualities in the world.

It's rubbish.


Google 'grades of steel' Bobby.



I did & so what?

Maybe I should go to the secret room & ask -
you know the one with only 3 members.  Cheesy
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #73 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #74 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?


BHP cannot compete with cheap Chinese inferior steel.
They don't compete with locally made steel.

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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #75 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm
 
Quote:
I did & so what?


You know now that any steel manufacturer (including those in China) can produce a vast array of different quality in steel products.  You can now stop referring to 'Chinese steel' as some sort of one size fits all.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #76 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:13pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:21pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:13pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:51pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


We were never competitive in the auto industry because we kept doling out money to rent-a-job in detroit to make old rubbish instead of nurturing our own industries just like Germany does.


Exackery - there was no actual Australian automotive industry.... just a branch office or two.



And the overseas office didn't allow Australia to make an electric car.


Apparently the overpaid septic tank who was running the branch office for Holden here said we weren't ready for electric cars. Sad
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #77 - May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?


BHP cannot compete with cheap Chinese inferior steel.
They don't compete with locally made steel.



Can they compete on good quality steel?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #78 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:02pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Can they compete on good quality steel?


I don't know -

All I know is that they closed just about all their steel mills down.
A lot of people lost their jobs.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #79 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:19pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:47pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Four pages in, and plenty of people have repeated this claim that we "need" to value add, but not a single person can explain why.

longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.


Really? Name one.

As far cars, the advances are in the THOUSANDS to the extent that there are barely comparable.

ARGUMENTUM AD ABSURDEM


You can get chips in them.

Cars are still old technology, no matter how many bells and whistles you add. That's why they are increasingly made in developing countries. No country "needs" to make them.


Thats an absurd statement. COmputers are old technology too by that reasoning. They are no different from the first programmable device.

I guess it explains a lot about you. I assume you either dont drive or your car comes from the 30s


Computers are not as old as cars.

Cars are, just like the model T, rubber tyres on steel rims driven by an internal combustion engine running the same thermodynamic cycle, with a padded seat to sit on and a steering wheel to control it. Adding a bucket of computer chips and getting a smoother surface doesn't really change the fundamentals of what they are, any more than putting an RFID chip on a wicker basket makes it a new technology.

There is no rational explanation why we "need" to make them here. It is just the emotional attachment to what used to be a symbol of the first world.


computers are 60 years old. They are old-tech.

The internet is 30 years old. it is old-tech.

Smart phones are more than 10 years old. They are old tech.

Satellites are old-tech. They are more than 60 years old

In your mind, what exactly is 'new technology' because it seems like it has to be a completely new, non-derivative  and innovative technology developed in the last 12 months.

I might agree with your value-add argument, but describing cars as old technology is ridiculous.

May I suggest getting rid of your Model T and perhaps trying out a new car for the comparison?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #80 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:23pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
So why aren't you making a fortune doing so Bobby?



To get into the nuclear reprocessing industry would require $billions
of investment & permission from the IAEA.
It's something that only a Govt. could get started on -
that's if we had a Govt. with any vision.
The return would be enormous as long as we could sell completed Uranium fuel rods.

If Thorium takes over soon then it would be a waste of money.
Then again we should be investing in Thorium research like China & India.


You do know that this investment needs to be... PROFITABLE?  The nuclear power countries already have adequate sources of fissionable rods and you are suggesting that we try and compete with established players like UK and USA who are also major users themselves. No one is going to invest in an industry that can be profitable and nor should they.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #81 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:31pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?


BHP cannot compete with cheap Chinese inferior steel.
They don't compete with locally made steel.



Can they compete on good quality steel?


Working in an industry that uses steel in our products all the time.

I can tell you now that there is a big difference between Chinese and Australian steel.

Australian steel is a better quality, welds and forms better and has less structural problems than Chinese steel.

But it is more expensive
So we tend to use Australian steel in structurally important areas and Chinese steel for non structural and fill in areas.

And it's getting harder and harder to get good quality Australian steel as more and more companies are now sourcing it over cheap Chinese steel.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #82 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:38pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
So why aren't you making a fortune doing so Bobby?



To get into the nuclear reprocessing industry would require $billions
of investment & permission from the IAEA.
It's something that only a Govt. could get started on -
that's if we had a Govt. with any vision.
The return would be enormous as long as we could sell completed Uranium fuel rods.

If Thorium takes over soon then it would be a waste of money.
Then again we should be investing in Thorium research like China & India.


You do know that this investment needs to be... PROFITABLE?  The nuclear power countries already have adequate sources of fissionable rods and you are suggesting that we try and compete with established players like UK and USA who are also major users themselves. No one is going to invest in an industry that can be profitable and nor should they.



can be profitable?  - I think you mean - can't be profitable.

The major makers of uranium fuel rods use our Yellowcake to make them.
They have to enrich the Yellowcake first in a very long high tech process.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #83 - May 13th, 2018 at 7:00pm
 
Quote:
So we tend to use Australian steel in structurally important areas and Chinese steel for non structural and fill in areas.


That's because your Boss has asked for and is using lower grade steel.....it matters not where it came from.

I wonder if he charges it out as premium grade?  I would not be at all surprised.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #84 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:27pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Can they compete on good quality steel?


I don't know -

All I know is that they closed just about all their steel mills down.
A lot of people lost their jobs.


And yet if you really believed we were competitive, you would have been investing in them. It's easy to let emotion lead you when you are telling other people what to do with their money. But when it's your own money, reality suddenly kicks in.

Quote:
computers are 60 years old. They are old-tech.


Cars are old technology. I did not say computers are. The only thing that is the same in them is the concept of ones and zeros. The actual ones and zeros are completely different. Computer technology has actually slowed down in the last decade or so, but if quantum computing ever takes off, it will be the same revolution all over again.

Chances are, we would still be driving internal combustion engines around, and some old person will be complaining that the ones from Eritrea are not as good as the ones they used to make in China. And the fat, lazy Chinese will be fearing the loss of the symbol of their economic revolution.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #85 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:37pm
 
FD,
Quote:
And yet if you really believed we were competitive, you would have been investing in them. It's easy to let emotion lead you when you are telling other people what to do with their money. But when it's your own money, reality suddenly kicks in.



I nearly bought BHP shares when they were at $15.
Now they are $33.
I bought a house instead with my money.
If you remember I had a whole thread on it.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #86 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:38pm
 
Yes, BHP are very clever. You can tell, because they shut down their Australian steel mills.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #87 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:42pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:38pm:
Yes, BHP are very clever. You can tell, because they shut down their Australian steel mills.



It's a pity they couldn't work out a way to beat the Chinese.
I suppose it's difficult when the Chinese only pay
their workers a bowl of rice per day &
they have no health & safety rules.


Level playing field isn't it?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #88 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm
 
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #89 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:48pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.




That's a bit of a right wing view FD -

not really politically correct these days!

watch out for the ABC having you on 4 Corners.  Smiley
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #90 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:41pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Except with 94.5% actual employment and improving, that statement is just nonsense.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #91 - May 14th, 2018 at 12:04am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Whah, them boys gits t' swim in dat river once't a week, and if'n they's good niggrahs an' works hard in dat hot sun, dey gits t' git at dem wenches once a month, for t' git on dem wenches a foal .... and if dey's 'specially good niggrahs - dey gits chicken an' water melon ever' Sunday!

Now ah ain't advocatin' dat dem wenches wit' foal should be a-shirking deir duties cause'a dat extra weight dere... yo'  hear... but mah buck niggrahs gits a wash an' some chicken an' some water melon an' some access to dem wenches an' fillies if'n dey GOOD niggrahs... cain' do better dan dat!
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #92 - May 14th, 2018 at 12:10am
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:41pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Except with 94.5% actual employment and improving, that statement is just nonsense.


**falls about laughing**

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/full-time-employment

"10,683,838 people living in Australia in 2016 were employed, of which 62% worked full-time and 36% part-time."

https://profile.id.com.au/australia/employment-status

Occupation of employment here is also telling...  so many clerks and jerks there are nowhere near enough actual productive workers.....
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #93 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:04am
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:08pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 12:45pm:
Quote:
And you fail to take into account that there are less & less full time jobs available ... dump trucks in mining are being automated to become driverless as they are also doing to the giant Iron Ore trains in the Pilbara.

It's a one way ticket to the bottom ... the lowest common denominator.


We have been going in the same direction for several centuries, with the same doom and gloom prognosis every step of the way from people who cannot see the wood for the trees. But at the end of the day we have far higher employment rates at far higher wages.


you are spot on. Ive been hearing this doom and gloom prognosis for decades now and Australia has one of the highest standards of living, one of the best economies and is arguably the most desirable place on earth to live. We even have fabulous weather!

Maybe some of you should be a bit more grateful that you live int he worlds best country.


And just maybe you & freediver could stop trying to gloss over the fact ..... that figures hide the true rate of unemployment in this country.

They also make out that jobs that are only a few hours a week are full time jobs/employment.

Why do we have such high youth unemployment?

Why have the LNP reduced funding for apprenticeship programs?

If everything is so rosey why do we have such high national debt?

Why in this latest budget have they cut millions/billions  from education, health & services?

Why are they(Libs) wanting to increase the pension eligibility age to 70 ... thus denying our youth the opportunity to find employment?

We could indeed still be the lucky country .... but because the rest of the world is in such a chaotic it doesn't mean we are not travelling down the same path.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #94 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:08am
 
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Quote:
Nonsense - Chinese steel is one of the lowest qualities in the world.

It's rubbish.


Google 'grades of steel' Bobby.


And the lower grades of course are cheaper .... & guess where our corporations go when the outsource?...

to lower grades & costs to maximise profits & supply crap product.
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« Last Edit: May 14th, 2018 at 9:44am by Gnads »  

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #95 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:28am
 
Valkie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 6:31pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Bobby wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?


BHP cannot compete with cheap Chinese inferior steel.
They don't compete with locally made steel.



Can they compete on good quality steel?


Working in an industry that uses steel in our products all the time.

I can tell you now that there is a big difference between Chinese and Australian steel.

Australian steel is a better quality, welds and forms better and has less structural problems than Chinese steel.

But it is more expensive
So we tend to use Australian steel in structurally important areas and Chinese steel for non structural and fill in areas.

And it's getting harder and harder to get good quality Australian steel as more and more companies are now sourcing it over cheap Chinese steel.


My company & the Govt rail here have already had to spend substantial amount on removing faulty chinese made rails across the QLD rail networks.

NSW govt has already had one contract of new trains supplied by Downer built in China cost millions to get up to standard & operational in fact there was a $400 million bailout involved .... and what are they doing now ... going with Downer again who are going to have the new trains built in China.

QLD Rail is in strife with their new suburban trains supplied by Bombardier being built in India .... 76 6 car units of which after nearly 2 years only a hand full are operational because of design & safety flaws. ie. not being up to spec.

Those units for both NSW & QLD could have been built in Australia - delivered on time & operational.

The higher wage/labour component would not have amounted to anywhere near the costs incurred in having them repaired/refitted here.


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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #96 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:34am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Rubbish .... they wouldn't be able to survive without the minimum wage safety net. Going down the dog eat dog road that the US has is ridiculous.

That only pushes people to stay on or chose to go on the dole.

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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #97 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:43am
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:41pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Except with 94.5% actual employment and improving, that statement is just nonsense.


94.5% actual employment?  Grin Grin Grin Grin

94.5% of what?

Only 50% ... approx 12.5 million Australians out of 24,772,247 million are employed in some fashion so not all those are permanent jobs, many are casual & part time.

88% of those employed are in urban areas.

Casualisation is also being pushed large.

How is that good for the economy?

So where's your 94.5% employment come from?


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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #98 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:43am
 
Ye Grappler wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 12:10am:
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:41pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Except with 94.5% actual employment and improving, that statement is just nonsense.


**falls about laughing**

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/full-time-employment

"10,683,838 people living in Australia in 2016 were employed, of which 62% worked full-time and 36% part-time."

https://profile.id.com.au/australia/employment-status

Occupation of employment here is also telling...  so many clerks and jerks there are nowhere near enough actual productive workers.....



You do know that the employment rate is based on the number of people who can work and want to work, right and not on the entire population?
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« Last Edit: May 14th, 2018 at 9:50am by longweekend58 »  

From one poster: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nanosecond, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family their parents
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #99 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:23pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:41pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.


Except with 94.5% actual employment and improving, that statement is just nonsense.


6.5% is a lot of people.

Quote:
And just maybe you & freediver could stop trying to gloss over the fact ..... that figures hide the true rate of unemployment in this country.


How exactly is "a lot of Australians" hiding this?

Quote:
Those units for both NSW & QLD could have been built in Australia - delivered on time & operational.


Aussies are never late.

Quote:
Rubbish .... they wouldn't be able to survive without the minimum wage safety net. Going down the dog eat dog road that the US has is ridiculous.


Better they are unemployed eh?

Are you saying those on minimum wage are on the brink of starving to death?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #100 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:32pm
 
Gnads wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:28am:
My company & the Govt rail here have already had to spend substantial amount on removing faulty chinese made rails across the QLD rail networks.

NSW govt has already had one contract of new trains supplied by Downer built in China cost millions to get up to standard & operational in fact there was a $400 million bailout involved .... and what are they doing now ... going with Downer again who are going to have the new trains built in China.

QLD Rail is in strife with their new suburban trains supplied by Bombardier being built in India .... 76 6 car units of which after nearly 2 years only a hand full are operational because of design & safety flaws. ie. not being up to spec.

Those units for both NSW & QLD could have been built in Australia - delivered on time & operational.

The higher wage/labour component would not have amounted to anywhere near the costs incurred in having them repaired/refitted here.




With bean counters running companies they will go for the cheaper Chinese steel.
Bad luck if it costs them more in the end &
bad luck for BHP steel mills & all their workers.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #101 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:35pm
 
Bobby, if you believe what you say, find a company that overpays for locally produced steel and invest in them. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #102 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:50pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Bobby, if you believe what you say, find a company that overpays for locally produced steel and invest in them. Put your money where your mouth is.


Thanks for the advice.

Maybe I should invest in an Aussie company that makes building cladding too?

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/london-fire-melbourne-skyscraper-fire-caused...

The fire used imported cladding from China, that failed to meet Australian standards, to creep up the side of the structure. Similar cladding has been blamed for a series of skyscraper fires and fatalities.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #103 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:55pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Bobby, if you believe what you say, find a company that overpays for locally produced steel and invest in them. Put your money where your mouth is.


Why not go up the value added chain and tell us why germany doesn't close down it's premium car manufacturing plants and just sell each other cups of coffee like we do here ? Surely it would be a lot easier to sell cups of coffee and renovate each others kitchens than to potch around building complicated motor vehicles for the local and export markets ?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #104 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:02pm
 
I've already answered that one.

Did you know Germany has lower salaries?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #105 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:08pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
I've already answered that one.

Did you know Germany has lower salaries?


Yes but they look after their workers and have a much better welfare system and they look after the elderly a lot better instead of making them fear retirement like they do here.

Like I said if selling cups of coffee is the way forward don't you think the germans would already be doing that instead of going down the complicated route of making hi-tech highly engineered products ?
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Reply #106 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:20pm
 
Quote:
Like I said if selling cups of coffee is the way forward


You left out degrees and potatoes and iron ore. We are not competitive at making cars. We would have to sink billions into it and then take a pay cut.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #107 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
Quote:
Like I said if selling cups of coffee is the way forward


You left out degrees and potatoes and iron ore. We are not competitive at making cars. We would have to sink billions into it and then take a pay cut.


That's why Germany doesn't manufacture and sell ordinary cars like Australia was making. They knew they had to move way up the value added chain and over engineer their products in order to gain market acceptance.

If you are just going to make the same old sh.,t as everyone else then it is just a race to the bottom.
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Reply #108 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:09pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
Quote:
Like I said if selling cups of coffee is the way forward


You left out degrees and potatoes and iron ore. We are not competitive at making cars. We would have to sink billions into it and then take a pay cut.


Selling degrees. You've got to be joking mate Cheesy LOL

What do you think the people we sell those degrees to use them for ?? The finished value added goods we import are probably designed or manufactured by those people we sold degrees too Cheesy LOL
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Reply #109 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:16pm
 
Would you prefer they paid the UK or NZ for their degrees?

Quote:
If you are just going to make the same old sh.,t as everyone else then it is just a race to the bottom.


Agreed. That's where we get a lot our export income from, once you take out primary products. We even export a lot of parts to the auto industry.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #110 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:19pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Would you prefer they paid the UK or NZ for their degrees?


As if it is going to matter in the end. We should be training our own and not boasting about training foreigners in exchange for a short term buck. It's pathetic.
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Reply #111 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:20pm
 
Quote:
As if it is going to matter in the end.


It will matter whether we get the income or not. But we cannot stop the Chinese educating themselves. Nor do we want to. You asked what they will do with their education - they will make a lot of money to spend on our beef and iron ore.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #112 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:21pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:19pm:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Would you prefer they paid the UK or NZ for their degrees?


As if it is going to matter in the end. We should be training our own and not boasting about training foreigners in exchange for a short term buck. It's pathetic.


You're right Nail,
we're training them to put us out of business -

knowledge is power.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #113 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:24pm
 
Intelligent educated people buy products from each other. We are richer, not poorer, because of all the educated people in overseas countries.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #114 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:29pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:20pm:
Quote:
As if it is going to matter in the end.


It will matter whether we get the income or not. But we cannot stop the Chinese educating themselves. Nor do we want to. You asked what they will do with their education - they will make a lot of money to spend on our beef and iron ore.


and then they will use that education to manufacture goods and add value and export it to us and put us in a trade deficit whilst we go about making each other cups of coffee and mowing each others lawns and sending ourselves into more debt.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #115 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:32pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:24pm:
Intelligent educated people buy products from each other. We are richer, not poorer, because of all the educated people in overseas countries.


yes they get wealthy and we get poorer buying their finished goods from them usually with credit we get from their banks ! But you mistakenly think that mowing lawns and making cups of coffee makes up for it. If it did the chinese would be doing that instead of investing trillions into plant and equipment !

Maybe this video will change your mind !


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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #116 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:24pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:32pm:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:24pm:
Intelligent educated people buy products from each other. We are richer, not poorer, because of all the educated people in overseas countries.


yes they get wealthy and we get poorer buying their finished goods from them usually with credit we get from their banks ! But you mistakenly think that mowing lawns and making cups of coffee makes up for it. If it did the chinese would be doing that instead of investing trillions into plant and equipment !

Maybe this video will change your mind !




So for the last several centuries we have been getting richer through international trade, but that is suddenly going to reverse because the Chinese get in on the action?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #117 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
Watch this FD -
it's just what Nail has been saying:

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Reply #118 - May 14th, 2018 at 9:45pm
 
Oh wow. A youtube video from someone who agrees with you and sprouts the same uninformed nonsense that they cannot back up either.

Case closed.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #119 - May 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
Oh wow. A youtube video from someone who agrees with you and sprouts the same uninformed nonsense that they cannot back up either.

Case closed.



The video maker stated many facts - shopping malls closing down etc.
I believe his ideas are plausible.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #120 - May 14th, 2018 at 10:06pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:32pm:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:24pm:
Intelligent educated people buy products from each other. We are richer, not poorer, because of all the educated people in overseas countries.


yes they get wealthy and we get poorer buying their finished goods from them usually with credit we get from their banks ! But you mistakenly think that mowing lawns and making cups of coffee makes up for it. If it did the chinese would be doing that instead of investing trillions into plant and equipment !

Maybe this video will change your mind !




So for the last several centuries we have been getting richer through international trade, but that is suddenly going to reverse because the Chinese get in on the action?


The greedy US corporations couldn't wait to close down, sack all of the local workers and move all oif their operations over to china and now china is ripping them off as well !! Bad move and the US knows it now. Just look at what is left of their middle class. It has been totally stripped and gutted which is a fate that awaits us when the credit dries up.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #121 - May 14th, 2018 at 10:08pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
Oh wow. A youtube video from someone who agrees with you and sprouts the same uninformed nonsense that they cannot back up either.

Case closed.


So are all of these dead malls in the US just another Stanley Kubrick mock up designed to fool us ?


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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #122 - May 14th, 2018 at 11:57pm
 
isnt agriculture our number one export?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #123 - May 15th, 2018 at 12:46am
 
We need to add real value to the nation................
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #124 - May 15th, 2018 at 12:47am
 
Rhino wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 11:57pm:
isnt agriculture our number one export?


Yeah - Third World economies are always like that.... all you need to do now is properly organise an over-cashed-up elite and a desperate peasant class.

Easy as pie.... just look around you.   Cool
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #125 - May 15th, 2018 at 12:02pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 12:47am:
Rhino wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 11:57pm:
isnt agriculture our number one export?


Yeah - Third World economies are always like that.... all you need to do now is properly organise an over-cashed-up elite and a desperate peasant class.

Easy as pie.... just look around you.   Cool


Isn't Australia already setup like that ?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #126 - May 15th, 2018 at 6:25pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
Oh wow. A youtube video from someone who agrees with you and sprouts the same uninformed nonsense that they cannot back up either.

Case closed.



The video maker stated many facts - shopping malls closing down etc.
I believe his ideas are plausible.


Any ideas in particular? Did you specifically choose a video rather than a written article because it saved you the bother of critical thinking?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #127 - May 15th, 2018 at 6:51pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 12:47am:
Rhino wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 11:57pm:
isnt agriculture our number one export?


Yeah - Third World economies are always like that.... all you need to do now is properly organise an over-cashed-up elite and a desperate peasant class.

Easy as pie.... just look around you.   Cool
we are number 4 standard of living in the world. Not bad for 3rd world. And back when all we had was life off the sheeps back in the 1900s we were number 1 in the world.
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Reply #128 - May 15th, 2018 at 6:57pm
 
I dont see why we have some urgent need to export manufactured goods like cars and cheap TVs. We have an almost inexhaustible supply of land, the technology to farm the land for clean food and an enormous export market desperate for our product. witness the demand for Australian made baby formula in China. We need to ditch the mindset that we are somehow need to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing cheap electronics and textiles, that way will lead to 3rd world.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #129 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:04pm
 
Rhino wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:57pm:
I dont see why we have some urgent need to export manufactured goods like cars and cheap TVs. We have an almost inexhaustible supply of land, the technology to farm the land for clean food and an enormous export market desperate for our product. witness the demand for Australian made baby formula in China. We need to ditch the mindset that we are somehow need to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing cheap electronics and textiles, that way will lead to 3rd world.


Then why are we importing truck loads of food produce ? Just check your woolies and coles isles and see where it comes from lately ?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #130 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:10pm
 
freediver wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Bobby wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
Oh wow. A youtube video from someone who agrees with you and sprouts the same uninformed nonsense that they cannot back up either.

Case closed.



The video maker stated many facts - shopping malls closing down etc.
I believe his ideas are plausible.


Any ideas in particular? Did you specifically choose a video rather than a written article because it saved you the bother of critical thinking?


I don't know what more you'll find in a bunch of words on a website compared to someone actually turning up at a mall and comprehensively filming it in covert fashion to show how many of the shops and businesses have been closed down. And this is not just one isolated case either. This pattern is repeated across the whole of the US !! Many of these videos also compare footage of when the malls were first opened and how busy they were !!
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #131 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:14pm
 
No one said the market was one way. I dont see any Chinese made baby formula on our shelves, do you? Overseas demand for Australian agriculture exports is enormous and growing, we are seen as a clean food producer. I saw Australian bananas and apples on the shelves in Jakarta last time I was there, not local. Big prices too. Australian meat, sold by the 100 grams, not local. Aussie wine is all over Asia. They cant get enough of it.
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Reply #132 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:49pm
 
Rhino wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 11:14pm:
No one said the market was one way. I dont see any Chinese made baby formula on our shelves, do you? Overseas demand for Australian agriculture exports is enormous and growing, we are seen as a clean food producer. I saw Australian bananas and apples on the shelves in Jakarta last time I was there, not local. Big prices too. Australian meat, sold by the 100 grams, not local. Aussie wine is all over Asia. They cant get enough of it.


And the debt obligation keeps increasing as we borrow more to buy more imported manufactured goods. The whole economy is being underwritten by cheap credit. We'll need a lot of baby formula to get ourselves out of this hole we have dug for ourselves  Sad
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Reply #133 - May 16th, 2018 at 1:04am
 
maybe we need to get out of the habit of upgrading our cheap Chinese TVs every year. I agree that cheap credit is a trap but stating the whole economy is underwritten by it is nothing more than hyperbole. And when you talk about Australia being in a debt "hole" you overlook this Hawke/Keating legacy
Quote:
With current total assets of $2 trillion, the pool of the Australian superannuation system is projected to double to $4 trillion in the next 10 years and reach $9.5 trillion by 2035. Deloitte Superannuation Leader, Russell Mason, said in real terms this means that the contribution of superannuation assets will almost double from 120% of current annual Gross Domestic Product (AUD$1.6 trillion - the 12th largest GDP in the world) to more than 200% of GDP in the next 20 years.

https://www2.deloitte.com/au/en/pages/media-releases/articles/dynamics-of-9-5-tr
illion-australian-super-system-171115.html
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #134 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:09am
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Would you prefer they paid the UK or NZ for their degrees?

Quote:
If you are just going to make the same old sh.,t as everyone else then it is just a race to the bottom.


Agreed. That's where we get a lot our export income from, once you take out primary products. We even export a lot of parts to the auto industry.


They're charging our own citizen youth $100,00 for a degree .... then they can't get work.  Roll Eyes
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Reply #135 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:13am
 
Rhino wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:57pm:
I dont see why we have some urgent need to export manufactured goods like cars and cheap TVs. We have an almost inexhaustible supply of land, the technology to farm the land for clean food and an enormous export market desperate for our product. witness the demand for Australian made baby formula in China. We need to ditch the mindset that we are somehow need to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing cheap electronics and textiles, that way will lead to 3rd world.


That's the dumbest statement you've made. Grin Roll Eyes
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Reply #136 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:14am
 
,,
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #137 - May 16th, 2018 at 8:57am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 11:04pm:
Rhino wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:57pm:
I dont see why we have some urgent need to export manufactured goods like cars and cheap TVs. We have an almost inexhaustible supply of land, the technology to farm the land for clean food and an enormous export market desperate for our product. witness the demand for Australian made baby formula in China. We need to ditch the mindset that we are somehow need to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing cheap electronics and textiles, that way will lead to 3rd world.


Then why are we importing truck loads of food produce ? Just check your woolies and coles isles and see where it comes from lately ?


We are a net food exporter, by a wide margin. We import some food, because, being filthy rich (from exporting what is most profitable rather than what someone down at the pub thinks we "need" to export), the seasons and climatic fluctuations don't affect what we eat. We just ship it in from the other side of the world if we want it now.

Quote:
I don't know what more you'll find in a bunch of words on a website compared to someone actually turning up at a mall and comprehensively filming it in covert fashion to show how many of the shops and businesses have been closed down. And this is not just one isolated case either. This pattern is repeated across the whole of the US !! Many of these videos also compare footage of when the malls were first opened and how busy they were !!


Yes, videos are great for eliciting an emotional reaction to bypass people's inclination to think, but what is your point?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #138 - May 16th, 2018 at 10:29am
 
freediver wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Bobby wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
But FD - we need to add value to what we export.

We need to sell steel not iron ore.

We need to sell Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.

We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.


Sir lastnail wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 10:17am:
Yes you need a manufacturing base or value added industries otherwise there is no way we can sustain our standard of living without going into more and more debt.


Why?


The Australian success (because we are a very wealthy nation, in regards to population) is mostly through 'Quality over Quantity'.
Australia has got rid of a lot of 'mass-production' Manufacturing, because its over-heads minimalise the profit margin considerably and we don't really need that 'cheap Asian labour' here anyway  Wink Cheesy

Of course, there is the argument that the only reason why Australia is a 'wealthy' nation...
...is because the Liberal Party always makes sure that Australian women are all out there 'working' and not making babies. Not that one can afford 'kids' in this very expensive part of the world. Hence the explosion of little white fluffy dogs instead.  Roll Eyes

It's easy to be rich, when you're Gay.  Wink
That's Australia!  Grin
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #139 - May 16th, 2018 at 10:47am
 
Gnads wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:09am:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Would you prefer they paid the UK or NZ for their degrees?

Quote:
If you are just going to make the same old sh.,t as everyone else then it is just a race to the bottom.


Agreed. That's where we get a lot our export income from, once you take out primary products. We even export a lot of parts to the auto industry.


They're charging our own citizen youth $100,00 for a degree .... then they can't get work.  Roll Eyes


Add to that they are bringing in a truck load of foreigners to take those jobs Sad
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #140 - May 16th, 2018 at 12:34pm
 
Let's try this again.

Who would prefer those students went to some other country to get their expensive degrees? I am not asking for your emotional response. I am asking you to gauge your critical thinking skills. Why is it that those who demand value adding are so opposed to this valuable export?

Who here would take a pay cut in order to do a factory job competing directly against Chinese labourers in one these value adding industries they consider to be so necessary?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #141 - May 16th, 2018 at 12:57pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:47am:
Gnads wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:09am:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Would you prefer they paid the UK or NZ for their degrees?

Quote:
If you are just going to make the same old sh.,t as everyone else then it is just a race to the bottom.


Agreed. That's where we get a lot our export income from, once you take out primary products. We even export a lot of parts to the auto industry.


They're charging our own citizen youth $100,00 for a degree .... then they can't get work.  Roll Eyes


Add to that they are bringing in a truck load of foreigners to take those jobs Sad
Yes, and that needs to change. Big business has been allowed to get away with importing skilled migrants instead of training locals for too long, its been happening in the mining industry forever.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #142 - May 16th, 2018 at 12:59pm
 
Gnads wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:13am:
Rhino wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:57pm:
I dont see why we have some urgent need to export manufactured goods like cars and cheap TVs. We have an almost inexhaustible supply of land, the technology to farm the land for clean food and an enormous export market desperate for our product. witness the demand for Australian made baby formula in China. We need to ditch the mindset that we are somehow need to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing cheap electronics and textiles, that way will lead to 3rd world.


That's the dumbest statement you've made. Grin Roll Eyes
Your focus on semantics doesnt help your knowledge base.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #143 - May 16th, 2018 at 7:39pm
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #144 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
Let's try this again.

Who would prefer those students went to some other country to get their expensive degrees? I am not asking for your emotional response. I am asking you to gauge your critical thinking skills. Why is it that those who demand value adding are so opposed to this valuable export?

Who here would take a pay cut in order to do a factory job competing directly against Chinese labourers in one of these value adding industries they consider to be so necessary?



Strawman fallacy.
No one here would work for a bowl of rice per day &
no health & safety rules.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #145 - May 16th, 2018 at 10:23pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
Let's try this again.

Who would prefer those students went to some other country to get their expensive degrees? I am not asking for your emotional response. I am asking you to gauge your critical thinking skills. Why is it that those who demand value adding are so opposed to this valuable export?

Who here would take a pay cut in order to do a factory job competing directly against Chinese labourers in one of these value adding industries they consider to be so necessary?



Strawman fallacy.
No one here would work for a bowl of rice per day &
no health & safety rules.


I am not asking if they would. I am asking if they would take a pay cut.

Would you?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #146 - May 16th, 2018 at 10:34pm
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:23pm:
Bobby wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
Let's try this again.

Who would prefer those students went to some other country to get their expensive degrees? I am not asking for your emotional response. I am asking you to gauge your critical thinking skills. Why is it that those who demand value adding are so opposed to this valuable export?

Who here would take a pay cut in order to do a factory job competing directly against Chinese labourers in one of these value adding industries they consider to be so necessary?



Strawman fallacy.
No one here would work for a bowl of rice per day &
no health & safety rules.


I am not asking if they would. I am asking if they would take a pay cut.

Would you?



No way - things cost too much here.
Not many people could live properly unless they earn at least $600 per week after tax.
Even that is the poverty line in Australia in the big cities.
I suppose if you don't mind baked beans on toast every night for dinner
you could live on less that that.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #147 - May 16th, 2018 at 10:40pm
 
So you insist we "need" these industries, but you would not be willing to work in them at a salary that would make us competitive, presumably because you are getting paid more doing something more profitable.

Do you think other people "need" to take a pay cut to get these factories up and running?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #148 - May 17th, 2018 at 5:52am
 
What we need, is some equality.
Why do doctors need to charge so much when what they do is simple enough?
Why do drug companies charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for a mixture of chemicals?
Why do politicians, senior public servants get paid so much, when they are just doing a job......badly?
Why do bank managers and other highly paid men need millions of dollars a year to do a job?

We are paying g for all these excesses with high prices and ridiculously high taxes

One should not ask the worker to take a pay cut

One should ask/ demand that  these overpaid people get real and help drive down the cost of living?

Do banks and other industries need to make billions in profits every year?

It's all just greed

After all, didn't the pollies say they could live on $40.00 a day.
Then make them.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #149 - May 17th, 2018 at 7:23am
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
So you insist we "need" these industries, but you would not be willing to work in them at a salary that would make us competitive, presumably because you are getting paid more doing something more profitable.

Do you think other people "need" to take a pay cut to get these factories up and running?



I already explained that it costs more to live here.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #150 - May 17th, 2018 at 7:28am
 
Valkie wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 5:52am:
What we need, is some equality.
Why do doctors need to charge so much when what they do is simple enough?
Why do drug companies charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for a mixture of chemicals?
Why do politicians, senior public servants get paid so much, when they are just doing a job......badly?
Why do bank managers and other highly paid men need millions of dollars a year to do a job?

We are paying g for all these excesses with high prices and ridiculously high taxes

One should not ask the worker to take a pay cut

One should ask/ demand that  these overpaid people get real and help drive down the cost of living?

Do banks and other industries need to make billions in profits every year?

It's all just greed

After all, didn't the pollies say they could live on $40.00 a day.
Then make them.

we can lead the revolution comrade  Tongue
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #151 - May 17th, 2018 at 12:37pm
 
Bobby wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 7:23am:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
So you insist we "need" these industries, but you would not be willing to work in them at a salary that would make us competitive, presumably because you are getting paid more doing something more profitable.

Do you think other people "need" to take a pay cut to get these factories up and running?



I already explained that it costs more to live here.


Only for the things that you have to pay locals for.

Our land is cheap. Our water is cheap. The weather is good. And we pay the Chinese $10 a day to make our cars and TVs for us. But still you find a way to complain about it.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #152 - May 17th, 2018 at 5:18pm
 
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
Bobby wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 7:23am:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
So you insist we "need" these industries, but you would not be willing to work in them at a salary that would make us competitive, presumably because you are getting paid more doing something more profitable.

Do you think other people "need" to take a pay cut to get these factories up and running?



I already explained that it costs more to live here.


Only for the things that you have to pay locals for.

Our land is cheap. Our water is cheap. The weather is good. And we pay the Chinese $10 a day to make our cars and TVs for us. But still you find a way to complain about it.



But we couldn't live on $10 a day here -
we can't compete with the Chinese on a so called " level playing field"
so we have to add value to our exports &
not just ship raw materials only.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #153 - May 17th, 2018 at 6:56pm
 
Quote:
so we have to add value to our exports &
not just ship raw materials only.


11 pages in, and you are still repeating it, but unable to justify the claim.

Are you arguing that because we cannot compete directly with people earning $10 a day, we have to compete directly with people earning $10 a day?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #154 - May 17th, 2018 at 9:57pm
 
It isn't just adding "value" anymore, it is about "creativity" whether it is the Japanese and their exports of anime and manga and culture in general or the Americans with Apple or Uber or Tesla or Hollywood ... the Chinese can do automation just fine but they haven't nailed creativity ... yet ...
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #155 - May 17th, 2018 at 10:11pm
 
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Quote:
so we have to add value to our exports &
not just ship raw materials only.


11 pages in, and you are still repeating it, but unable to justify the claim.

Are you arguing that because we cannot compete directly with people earning $10 a day, we have to compete directly with people earning $10 a day?



FD,
I'd like to see the Govts. step in to put a stop to the Chinese
exporting crap quality steel & building cladding etc
all around the world to greedy bean counter companies
who are willing to risk the lives of people
with shoddy, dangerous products.
Take the Grenfell tower fire as one example.


...


...
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #156 - May 17th, 2018 at 10:22pm
 
They will stop exporting it as soon as people stop buying it.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #157 - May 17th, 2018 at 11:01pm
 
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Quote:
so we have to add value to our exports &
not just ship raw materials only.


11 pages in, and you are still repeating it, but unable to justify the claim.

Are you arguing that because we cannot compete directly with people earning $10 a day, we have to compete directly with people earning $10 a day?


Try and pay off your foreign debt by selling each other cups of coffee and when you have successfully done this then you can teach the chinese how to do it so they no longer have to manufacture anything Wink
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #158 - May 17th, 2018 at 11:02pm
 
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
They will stop exporting it as soon as people stop buying it.


Do they export asbestos to us ??

How come ?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #159 - May 18th, 2018 at 12:48am
 
Bobby wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 5:18pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
Bobby wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 7:23am:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
So you insist we "need" these industries, but you would not be willing to work in them at a salary that would make us competitive, presumably because you are getting paid more doing something more profitable.

Do you think other people "need" to take a pay cut to get these factories up and running?



I already explained that it costs more to live here.


Only for the things that you have to pay locals for.

Our land is cheap. Our water is cheap. The weather is good. And we pay the Chinese $10 a day to make our cars and TVs for us. But still you find a way to complain about it.



But we couldn't live on $10 a day here -
we can't compete with the Chinese on a so called " level playing field"
so we have to add value to our exports &
not just ship raw materials only.
We dont need to compete with the Chinese. They cant make their stuff without our resources. They pretty much rely on us for food too.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #160 - May 18th, 2018 at 7:32am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 11:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
They will stop exporting it as soon as people stop buying it.


Do they export asbestos to us ??

How come ?


Would you like to make a point Nail?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #161 - May 18th, 2018 at 8:13am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 11:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
They will stop exporting it as soon as people stop buying it.


Do they export asbestos to us ??

How come ?


New Chinese built diesel locomotives into New Zealand for Kiwi Rail and new chinese built electric locomotives into QLD for Pacific National all had asbestos in them that required removal & refit before they could go into service.

Specifications said no asbestos .... yet it was in there.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #162 - May 18th, 2018 at 8:28am
 
Rhino wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
Gnads wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:13am:
Rhino wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:57pm:
I dont see why we have some urgent need to export manufactured goods like cars and cheap TVs. We have an almost inexhaustible supply of land, the technology to farm the land for clean food and an enormous export market desperate for our product. witness the demand for Australian made baby formula in China. We need to ditch the mindset that we are somehow need to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing cheap electronics and textiles, that way will lead to 3rd world.


That's the dumbest statement you've made. Grin Roll Eyes
Your focus on semantics doesnt help your knowledge base.


Our suitable agricultural land is finite not inexhaustible.

35% of the Australian continent receives so little rain it is effectively desert.

Intensive agriculture is limited to certain parts of the country i.e. sth west corner of WA and coastal to mid inland Vic, NSW & QLD.

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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #163 - May 18th, 2018 at 8:34am
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
So you insist we "need" these industries, but you would not be willing to work in them at a salary that would make us competitive, presumably because you are getting paid more doing something more profitable.

Do you think other people "need" to take a pay cut to get these factories up and running?


People would take a pay cut if the cost of living reduced accordingly.

And many sectors have had wage freezes, some for years yet the cost of living continued to rise.

As it still does.

Application for wage rises are only ever an attempt at catchup .... it's not labour/wages driving up the cost of living.

You can't expect one without the other.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #164 - May 18th, 2018 at 6:57pm
 
Quote:
People would take a pay cut if the cost of living reduced accordingly.


You are having trouble giving a straight answer. Those Chinese still have to pay the same price as us for TV's, cars, fridges, any food that is an international commodity etc. And most people live in far more crowded countries, so even a tiny block out in the countryside costs a fortune.

We get paid well because we do the high value work, not the work that some pretend economist insists we "need" to do to undercut Chinese factory labourers.

So, who is actually going to do the hard, low paid work to compete against the Chinese and Indians in these "value adding" industries you think we need so desperately?

You?

Or does common sense kick in when it is your own paycheck on the line?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #165 - May 18th, 2018 at 7:28pm
 
freediver wrote on May 18th, 2018 at 6:57pm:
Quote:
People would take a pay cut if the cost of living reduced accordingly.


You are having trouble giving a straight answer. Those Chinese still have to pay the same price as us for TV's, cars, fridges, any food that is an international commodity etc. And most people live in far more crowded countries, so even a tiny block out in the countryside costs a fortune.

We get paid well because we do the high value work, not the work that some pretend economist insists we "need" to do to undercut Chinese factory labourers.

So, who is actually going to do the hard, low paid work to compete against the Chinese and Indians in these "value adding" industries you think we need so desperately?

You?

Or does common sense kick in when it is your own paycheck on the line?


re: highlight: - bs they do.

As for the rest additional BS.

Without industry we have no employment ... do you want you children or grandchildren to be able gain meaningful full time employment?

When you go who will be paying taxes to pay for their welfare?
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #166 - May 18th, 2018 at 7:28pm
 
,,..
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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