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"we need to value add" (Read 10771 times)
Aussie
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #75 - May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm
 
Quote:
I did & so what?


You know now that any steel manufacturer (including those in China) can produce a vast array of different quality in steel products.  You can now stop referring to 'Chinese steel' as some sort of one size fits all.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #76 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:13pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:21pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:13pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:51pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:49pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Aussie wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Bobby....name one natural raw product that we can value add to and be competitive in an international market.

We can't even competitively make cars here as we once did.



I already gave 3 examples in the OP:

Steel - not iron ore.
Uranium fuel rods - not Yellowcake.
Woolen clothing - not bales of wool.



Would you like to add to the list?


My request included the condition......and be competitive in an international market.



That's a tough one Aussie,
we weren't competitive in the auto industry so let's
not ever try anything ever again?


We were never competitive in the auto industry because we kept doling out money to rent-a-job in detroit to make old rubbish instead of nurturing our own industries just like Germany does.


Exackery - there was no actual Australian automotive industry.... just a branch office or two.



And the overseas office didn't allow Australia to make an electric car.


Apparently the overpaid septic tank who was running the branch office for Holden here said we weren't ready for electric cars. Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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freediver
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #77 - May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?


BHP cannot compete with cheap Chinese inferior steel.
They don't compete with locally made steel.



Can they compete on good quality steel?
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Bobby.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #78 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:02pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Can they compete on good quality steel?


I don't know -

All I know is that they closed just about all their steel mills down.
A lot of people lost their jobs.
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longweekend58
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #79 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:19pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:47pm:
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:38pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Four pages in, and plenty of people have repeated this claim that we "need" to value add, but not a single person can explain why.

longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
There are also some wonderful advances in wicker basketmanufacturing these days. But they are still baskets made of wicker.


Really? Name one.

As far cars, the advances are in the THOUSANDS to the extent that there are barely comparable.

ARGUMENTUM AD ABSURDEM


You can get chips in them.

Cars are still old technology, no matter how many bells and whistles you add. That's why they are increasingly made in developing countries. No country "needs" to make them.


Thats an absurd statement. COmputers are old technology too by that reasoning. They are no different from the first programmable device.

I guess it explains a lot about you. I assume you either dont drive or your car comes from the 30s


Computers are not as old as cars.

Cars are, just like the model T, rubber tyres on steel rims driven by an internal combustion engine running the same thermodynamic cycle, with a padded seat to sit on and a steering wheel to control it. Adding a bucket of computer chips and getting a smoother surface doesn't really change the fundamentals of what they are, any more than putting an RFID chip on a wicker basket makes it a new technology.

There is no rational explanation why we "need" to make them here. It is just the emotional attachment to what used to be a symbol of the first world.


computers are 60 years old. They are old-tech.

The internet is 30 years old. it is old-tech.

Smart phones are more than 10 years old. They are old tech.

Satellites are old-tech. They are more than 60 years old

In your mind, what exactly is 'new technology' because it seems like it has to be a completely new, non-derivative  and innovative technology developed in the last 12 months.

I might agree with your value-add argument, but describing cars as old technology is ridiculous.

May I suggest getting rid of your Model T and perhaps trying out a new car for the comparison?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #80 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:23pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
So why aren't you making a fortune doing so Bobby?



To get into the nuclear reprocessing industry would require $billions
of investment & permission from the IAEA.
It's something that only a Govt. could get started on -
that's if we had a Govt. with any vision.
The return would be enormous as long as we could sell completed Uranium fuel rods.

If Thorium takes over soon then it would be a waste of money.
Then again we should be investing in Thorium research like China & India.


You do know that this investment needs to be... PROFITABLE?  The nuclear power countries already have adequate sources of fissionable rods and you are suggesting that we try and compete with established players like UK and USA who are also major users themselves. No one is going to invest in an industry that can be profitable and nor should they.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Valkie
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #81 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:31pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:52pm:
How is BHP going with its local steel processing plants?

Bobby, if we were so competitive, why do you think private companies aren't pouring in millions to do it?



BHP closed down most of their steel mills.
They couldn't compete with cheap Chinese steel.
Also - it's rumored that at least one bridge has fallen down because it used cheap Chinese inferior steel - go figure.

see here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/safety-warning-over-fabricated-chinese-ste...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80635517/Chinese-steel-fails-strengt...


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-08/03/content_30341103.htm


Bobby, if BHP could not compete with locally made steel, why do you think we are competitive?


BHP cannot compete with cheap Chinese inferior steel.
They don't compete with locally made steel.



Can they compete on good quality steel?


Working in an industry that uses steel in our products all the time.

I can tell you now that there is a big difference between Chinese and Australian steel.

Australian steel is a better quality, welds and forms better and has less structural problems than Chinese steel.

But it is more expensive
So we tend to use Australian steel in structurally important areas and Chinese steel for non structural and fill in areas.

And it's getting harder and harder to get good quality Australian steel as more and more companies are now sourcing it over cheap Chinese steel.
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I HAVE A DREAM
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A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Bobby.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #82 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:38pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
So why aren't you making a fortune doing so Bobby?



To get into the nuclear reprocessing industry would require $billions
of investment & permission from the IAEA.
It's something that only a Govt. could get started on -
that's if we had a Govt. with any vision.
The return would be enormous as long as we could sell completed Uranium fuel rods.

If Thorium takes over soon then it would be a waste of money.
Then again we should be investing in Thorium research like China & India.


You do know that this investment needs to be... PROFITABLE?  The nuclear power countries already have adequate sources of fissionable rods and you are suggesting that we try and compete with established players like UK and USA who are also major users themselves. No one is going to invest in an industry that can be profitable and nor should they.



can be profitable?  - I think you mean - can't be profitable.

The major makers of uranium fuel rods use our Yellowcake to make them.
They have to enrich the Yellowcake first in a very long high tech process.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #83 - May 13th, 2018 at 7:00pm
 
Quote:
So we tend to use Australian steel in structurally important areas and Chinese steel for non structural and fill in areas.


That's because your Boss has asked for and is using lower grade steel.....it matters not where it came from.

I wonder if he charges it out as premium grade?  I would not be at all surprised.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #84 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:27pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 5:02pm:
Can they compete on good quality steel?


I don't know -

All I know is that they closed just about all their steel mills down.
A lot of people lost their jobs.


And yet if you really believed we were competitive, you would have been investing in them. It's easy to let emotion lead you when you are telling other people what to do with their money. But when it's your own money, reality suddenly kicks in.

Quote:
computers are 60 years old. They are old-tech.


Cars are old technology. I did not say computers are. The only thing that is the same in them is the concept of ones and zeros. The actual ones and zeros are completely different. Computer technology has actually slowed down in the last decade or so, but if quantum computing ever takes off, it will be the same revolution all over again.

Chances are, we would still be driving internal combustion engines around, and some old person will be complaining that the ones from Eritrea are not as good as the ones they used to make in China. And the fat, lazy Chinese will be fearing the loss of the symbol of their economic revolution.
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« Last Edit: May 13th, 2018 at 8:33pm by freediver »  

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Bobby.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #85 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:37pm
 
FD,
Quote:
And yet if you really believed we were competitive, you would have been investing in them. It's easy to let emotion lead you when you are telling other people what to do with their money. But when it's your own money, reality suddenly kicks in.



I nearly bought BHP shares when they were at $15.
Now they are $33.
I bought a house instead with my money.
If you remember I had a whole thread on it.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #86 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:38pm
 
Yes, BHP are very clever. You can tell, because they shut down their Australian steel mills.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #87 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:42pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:38pm:
Yes, BHP are very clever. You can tell, because they shut down their Australian steel mills.



It's a pity they couldn't work out a way to beat the Chinese.
I suppose it's difficult when the Chinese only pay
their workers a bowl of rice per day &
they have no health & safety rules.


Level playing field isn't it?
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #88 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm
 
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.
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Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #89 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:48pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 8:45pm:
Unfortunately, a lot of Australians cannot find a job or cannot find full time work because minimum wages, unions etc make them unemployable.

Other than that, yes, it's a level playing field. Just like having slaves, but you don't have to put up with the smell.




That's a bit of a right wing view FD -

not really politically correct these days!

watch out for the ABC having you on 4 Corners.  Smiley
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