Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 12
Send Topic Print
"we need to value add" (Read 10774 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #30 - May 13th, 2018 at 9:59am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Is there a single person here who would be willing to sacrifice part of their income to become a factory labourer in one of these industries we so desperately "need"?

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Do you have any particular reason for believing this?

Quote:
So how does germany compete


Several ways.

They have lower wages.

They have 4 times the population and are very close to other large population centres, so they have economies of scale. This is particularly important for the modern car industry.

They are close to the bulk of their customers, in terms of transport cost.

They do not have relatively large mining, tourism etc sectors competing for employees.

Despite this, the Europeans are slowly losing out to the Asians who are better placed on all these scales.

And despite all this, Australia does actually still compete in the car industry in those sectors where we have a natural competitive advantage. Bolting the cars together is not one of them.

Quote:
You don't always have to race to the bottom and make nickle and dime trinkets for the masses.


That's what cars are these days. They are old technology. They have been around for over a century. They have the imagery and emotional attachment to what made our nations great, but time have changed.

Quote:
Selling degrees to foreigners who end up using it to put us out of business.


They are going to get the degrees whether we profit from it or not. Might as well profit from it.

Quote:
Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper.


Yes, that's why. We all get paid to much. We should be more like all those German labourers getting paid half as much to work a lathe.

Quote:
we can't keep shutting down our industries


They shut themselves down because they lose all their good employees to better paying industries.

Quote:
Yes - why can't we be a huge exporter like Germany?


Relative to our population, we are a bigger exporter and focus on the higher wage industries.


.... but we don't export finished products so lauded by Julia Gillard in her mindless statement about Asians becoming middle class consumers of finished goods etc, and our exports are Third World exports such as cattle, sheep, ores, and the wages are vastly and increasingly spread to the point of massive social and economic division - not a general prosperity for the nation as a whole and certainly no solid underpinning of any industrial infrastructure.

At the same time - 'concentrating on higher wage industries' feeds the fear-mongering of the 'rightist' ideologues about 'competitiveness' and leads to a form of class war that we are seeing here and now..

They can't have it all ways at once... sorry 'bout that.


Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #31 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am
 
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91855
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #32 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:12am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


WE DON'T WANT THEM HERE.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79545
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #33 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:20am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.



Meat is hardly finished product..... and it seems that Australia is now only capable of importing from itself in the global market at First World prices a Third World level of steak for home consumption... shipping mountains of ore off the China proves my point.

The Japanese wanted to build an iron and steel works in the Yampi sound in the early 1930's - right where my GAIA concept is placed and right on top of the ore and the undersea gas.

"In 1934, a lease was assigned over iron ore deposits at Koolan Island in Yampi Sound off the coast of the Kimberley to companies (later assessed to be fronts for the Japanese government directed Nippon Mining Company), on condition all labour would be Australian and no Asians would be admitted.

It was the richest deposit known in Australia, and the leaseholders proposed the ore be dedicated to the Japanese market for 50 years.

In 1937, there was a public and internal government outcry when Nippon Mining proposed not to use Australian labour but to send its own engineers to construct the mine. "


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/s-couldnt-happen-again-could-t...

They also, according to 'Australia's Secret War' by Hal Colebatch, applied to build an onshore processing plant there for the iron ore.

This addiction of Australia's to being a Banana Republic and shipping off ore by the planet-load would actually appear, from this article, to be placing Australia in a poor bargaining position, by ensuring that any reduction or cessation would be viewed as a strategic threat by the current recipient.  What that means is that the provider is actually in a less powerful position than the recipient... which seems to upset the concept of 'free trade'.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #34 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:32am
 
Valkie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
The stupidity I don't understand is the grubberment going off shore for tenders
(Unless they are being given brown paper bags to do it)

If a project costs 40 million off shore for ships and subs
And the same project costs 60 million in Australia

The stupid politicians and corrupt public serve us go for the 40 million that will never come back to Australia

At least if the turnips chose the Australian quote, they would
1) keep the money in Australia
2) keep the taxes in Australia
3) use Australian workers and materials
4) keep Australians in skilled work.

But because our politicians and public serve us are so corrupt it's just not funny
They get huge donations(bribes) and build up their bank accounts.

I hate Australian politicians and the Australian grubberment
A pox on them all



Cool.............................. Cool

Yes more expensive here for sure no one can debate that.

BUT compared to the taxes they would generate which would make our economy go around, it makes them criminals to give our projects to offshore corporates.

More expensive but the government creates jobs and gets revenue from all the taxes.

Australian projects should be designed & built by Australians in Australia using Australian materials.

Hang the lotta them their not interested in advancing our nation just keeping their chairs...................... Angry

Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #35 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:35am
 
Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 6:55pm:
We need to sell woolen clothing not bales of wool.

Why can't we make clothing anymore and sell it overseas?


Right on champ..... Cool

Where are the people screaming slave labour and child slave labour....???!!!
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Ajax
Gold Member
*****
Offline


CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

Posts: 10952
Australia
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #36 - May 13th, 2018 at 10:41am
 
The bottom line is every country in the world that has adopted the Neo Liberal policies of Milton Friedman through Globalization and free trade are over their heads in debt.

This system hoard the wealth of countries into the hands of a few rich & greedy leaches who's stomachs are an bottomless pit.

Its time for a new system.
Back to top
 

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 29705
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #37 - May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!
Back to top
 

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 94104
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #38 - May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir lastnail
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 29705
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #39 - May 13th, 2018 at 11:41am
 
Bobby. wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:36am:
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


A debt that will never be repaid.

National Govt.  debt now nearly $629 billion.


http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/


Total private debt approaching 3 trillion or 3000 billion dollars. I doubt if making cups of coffee using imported coffee machines or mowing each others lawns is ever going to pay this off !!
Back to top
 

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #40 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:29pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Quote:
And who grows & nurtures the sheep, who shears the sheep, classes the wool, puts it in the press,moves the full bale, loads it on the trucks, the unloads at the agents to be reloaded into containers, who loads it on the ships?

The labour component to turn that wool into a saleable garment here is only a small portion of the overall production costs.

The same can be applied to much of our export commodities like iron ore & aluminum oxide.  Roll Eyes


Absolutely correct and ALL of that is part of the recipe of being able to compete with overseas markets/factories.



And my point is that Australian labour costs are also only small part of the whole ..... so exportation costs to offshore final product manufacturing should be spent on our labour costs not in foreign countries.

Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #41 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:40pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 11:27am:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 10:05am:
Actually, our beef and associated industries are booming because the new Chinese middle class is upgrading from locusts to steak. Third world countries do not import meat.

That's also where most of our iron ore is going. We are literally shipping whole mountains off to China.


and we are paying more for the finished imported goods from them and the rest of the world which is why we are in a mountain of debt !!


We are not importing beef.

If you think it is a bad financial decision to export ore and import steel, invest in a local steelmaker.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 27647
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #42 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:42pm
 
Freediver - bloody stupid "spam" detector.

Are you serious?

Who would be getting paid $10 a day in Australia?

Or are you supporting the payment of 3rd world wages here?

In that case a truck driver in a mine wouldn't be earning $150k per year would they?

And you fail to take into account that there are less & less full time jobs available ... dump trucks in mining are being automated to become driverless as they are also doing to the giant Iron Ore trains in the Pilbara.

It's a one way ticket to the bottom ... the lowest common denominator.

Then we will be the 3rd world country whilst the affluent burgeoning middle classes expand in the 3rd world countries we offshore everything to.

Back to top
 

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #43 - May 13th, 2018 at 12:45pm
 
Quote:
And you fail to take into account that there are less & less full time jobs available ... dump trucks in mining are being automated to become driverless as they are also doing to the giant Iron Ore trains in the Pilbara.

It's a one way ticket to the bottom ... the lowest common denominator.


We have been going in the same direction for several centuries, with the same doom and gloom prognosis every step of the way from people who cannot see the wood for the trees. But at the end of the day we have far higher employment rates at far higher wages.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: "we need to value add"
Reply #44 - May 13th, 2018 at 1:04pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Is there a single person here who would be willing to sacrifice part of their income to become a factory labourer in one of these industries we so desperately "need"?

Bobby. wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 11:11pm:
FD,
Quote:
We should sell potatoes and degrees also. That's where the money is.


We have to move away from the dig it up & ship it out mentality.

I think if we don't value add we're doomed to move to 3rd world country status.


Do you have any particular reason for believing this?

Quote:
So how does germany compete


Several ways.

They have lower wages.

They have 4 times the population and are very close to other large population centres, so they have economies of scale. This is particularly important for the modern car industry.

They are close to the bulk of their customers, in terms of transport cost.

They do not have relatively large mining, tourism etc sectors competing for employees.

Despite this, the Europeans are slowly losing out to the Asians who are better placed on all these scales.

And despite all this, Australia does actually still compete in the car industry in those sectors where we have a natural competitive advantage. Bolting the cars together is not one of them.

Quote:
You don't always have to race to the bottom and make nickle and dime trinkets for the masses.


That's what cars are these days. They are old technology. They have been around for over a century. They have the imagery and emotional attachment to what made our nations great, but time have changed.

Quote:
Selling degrees to foreigners who end up using it to put us out of business.


They are going to get the degrees whether we profit from it or not. Might as well profit from it.

Quote:
Too many non-productive wordsmiths in this country getting paid too much to produce rubbish scribble on bits of paper.


Yes, that's why. We all get paid to much. We should be more like all those German labourers getting paid half as much to work a lathe.

Quote:
we can't keep shutting down our industries


They shut themselves down because they lose all their good employees to better paying industries.

Quote:
Yes - why can't we be a huge exporter like Germany?


Relative to our population, we are a bigger exporter and focus on the higher wage industries.


Cars are old technology? You might want to check out the technology in new cars. They are exceptional. Or id you are referring to the internal combustion engine, they are not even comparable to those 100 years ago.  Its a bit like comparing the Wright brothers first plane and an A380 and thinking that planes are 'old technology'.

But the rest of your post was very relevant.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 12
Send Topic Print