Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ? (Read 939 times)
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20901
A cat with a view
Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
May 11th, 2018 at 6:03pm
 

Jihad.....        Is Jihad violence, part of a war ?
Or is Jihad violence merely a 'crime' spree which is being carried out by many disparate individuals ?




Firstly, how we [the people of Western nations] regard what 1/ the moslem is [i.e. his motives], and 2/ what ISLAM is [i.e. its motives],
speaks to the answer, which we [the people of Western nations] will give to that question.

At the moment, it seems to many people like myself,
that many others in our communities, simply want to avoid confronting hard questions.


Quote:

By Robert Spencer on May 10, 2018 07:21 pm

Over 200 convicted jihadis to be released in Europe over the next two years


The defense against the global jihad is a war.

Jihad attacks in the West are single battles in that war.


Yet authorities continue to prosecute jihadis as if they were a series of criminals committing separate and discrete criminal acts that are unrelated to one another.



If we had arrested and tried separately in criminal court every German and Japanese soldier captured during World War II, which side would have won that war?

This myopia is self-defeating           at best, and as the jihad continues, that will become increasingly obvious.

One occasion of its becoming obvious will be when these jihadis are released.

.....

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/05/over-200-convicted-jihadis-to-be-released-in-...




In the comments to the article....

Quote:

Niemoller says      
May 10, 2018 at 8:12 pm

....Convicted jihadists should be executed as China would do to them.

Second best is forcibly dump them on the ummah, let it take care of its filth.

Islam is a nation of states, and the ummah are its citizens.

There should be no citizenship for jihadists in free countries.

That should be policy from the UK to the Philippines.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/05/over-200-convicted-jihadis-to-be-released-in-...



Yadda agrees with Niemoller.

I would hope, that some time in the future, Australia could decide to lawfully execute convicted jihadists [i.e. those convicted  of either being involved with 1/ planning or 2/ [tried to] carrying out a mass casualty attack].

I would prefer the guillotine.

And i for one,       would volunteer to pull the rope to the latch.


Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
Benson
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8
England
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2018 at 8:37pm
 
When someone's beliefs means they physically harm someone, I would say it's a mental illness. Some try to hide behind religion as justification.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2018 at 10:19pm
 
Bombing public transport, gathering places, etc., for maximum body count. Yes, it is part of a war against anyone who does not recognise Allah and his prophet. Declarations of War by states seem to have become obsolete. This a new kind of war where the people starting it do so for purely ideological reasons and revenge for perceived slights. They have declared this war many times, but bizarrely, their enemies are unable to admit it. Its too big, and widespread to be considered a crime wave.
Back to top
 

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 32658
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #3 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 7:12am
 
its an ideological possession.

the world is a very very complex place and we need belief systems or we get overwhelmed and anxious and we pump out endless adrenaline and cortisol and then we die.

so you need a belief system because it simplifies the world.

islam is one

christianity is another.

the left have a belief system in socialism , a belief that if someone has more then someone else, then that guy stole it and oppressed the person with less (who is the victim).
its a system you can learn in 20 minutes and then your done having to think.
thats good for a 18 yo uni student with a chaotic mind...gives him someone to hate (maybe he can just hate trump).

thats really no different to a 15 yo muslim lad who is in chaos and finds a system to make order of the chaos. gives him someone to hate.

people in chaos will always call forth the totalitarian rule.
because its better to be ruled by the tyrant, then cast naked into the jungle to cope on your own.

the superior man accepts the burden of responsibility for his life AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

thats pretty rough.

capitalism teaches you that.

capitalism says "you as an INDIVIDUAL have to produce something of worth or you starve".

thats harsh
thats tough.

but theres growth and joy and challenge in that.

other ideological possessions will usually lead to bitterness , resentment and a will to call forth predatory power and destroy....hitler, stalin, anti fa, the ultra right, jihad...these are the fate of the person who will not bear the burden of carrying the burden of personal responsibility without complaint and without resentment
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #4 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 8:01am
 
Scoot: " you need a belief system because it simplifies the world."

Speak for yourself.
Back to top
 

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 32658
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #5 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 8:13am
 
issuevoter wrote on Jul 27th, 2018 at 8:01am:
Scoot: " you need a belief system because it simplifies the world."

Speak for yourself.



the ammount of stimulus coming in overwhelms people.
and you secrete lots of cortisol and adrenaline which wrecks your health.

you have to believe in something , have some north star , have some way of making order from this chaos.

why do we have 2 hemispheres in our brains.

think about it.

its obviously an evolutionary thing.

one hemisphere deals with the unknown, with chaos  and the other deals with order and logic.

our brain is evolved to search for chaos and then to make order out of it.

this is just who we are as a species.

you dont want to get too orderly or you get bored and depressed
you dont want to get too chaotic or you get hyper anxious and overwhelmed.

religious belief systems are a way of negotiating this space.

the thing is not to become possessed by them

a jihadist is possessed
a social justice warrior is possessed
a capitalist who just is interested in his bank balance is possessed.

and when you are possessed, you are no longer trying to make order from chaos, you have stopped expanding and you have stopped growing.
now you will be prone to bitterness, resentment and cruelty.

we all know this

isis are cruel
pol pot and mao were cruel
the rich industrialist who sent little kids down the coal mine was cruel,

cruel bitter and resentful.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
TheFunPolice
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9009
waggawagga
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 2:50pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 27th, 2018 at 7:12am:
its an ideological possession.

the world is a very very complex place and we need belief systems or we get overwhelmed and anxious and we pump out endless adrenaline and cortisol and then we die.

so you need a belief system because it simplifies the world.

islam is one

christianity is another.

the left have a belief system in socialism , a belief that if someone has more then someone else, then that guy stole it and oppressed the person with less (who is the victim).
its a system you can learn in 20 minutes and then your done having to think.
thats good for a 18 yo uni student with a chaotic mind...gives him someone to hate (maybe he can just hate trump).

thats really no different to a 15 yo muslim lad who is in chaos and finds a system to make order of the chaos. gives him someone to hate.

people in chaos will always call forth the totalitarian rule.
because its better to be ruled by the tyrant, then cast naked into the jungle to cope on your own.

the superior man accepts the burden of responsibility for his life AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

thats pretty rough.

capitalism teaches you that.

capitalism says "you as an INDIVIDUAL have to produce something of worth or you starve".

thats harsh
thats tough.

but theres growth and joy and challenge in that.

other ideological possessions will usually lead to bitterness , resentment and a will to call forth predatory power and destroy....hitler, stalin, anti fa, the ultra right, jihad...these are the fate of the person who will not bear the burden of carrying the burden of personal responsibility without complaint and without resentment

Aqua believes in pure market forces,............................................... STILL  Grin
Back to top
 

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
IP Logged
 
TheFunPolice
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9009
waggawagga
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #7 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 2:53pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 27th, 2018 at 8:13am:
issuevoter wrote on Jul 27th, 2018 at 8:01am:
Scoot: " you need a belief system because it simplifies the world."

Speak for yourself.



the ammount of stimulus coming in overwhelms people.
and you secrete lots of cortisol and adrenaline which wrecks your health.

you have to believe in something , have some north star , have some way of making order from this chaos.

why do we have 2 hemispheres in our brains.

think about it.

its obviously an evolutionary thing.

one hemisphere deals with the unknown, with chaos  and the other deals with order and logic.

our brain is evolved to search for chaos and then to make order out of it.

this is just who we are as a species.

you dont want to get too orderly or you get bored and depressed
you dont want to get too chaotic or you get hyper anxious and overwhelmed.

religious belief systems are a way of negotiating this space.

the thing is not to become possessed by them

a jihadist is possessed
a social justice warrior is possessed
a capitalist who just is interested in his bank balance is possessed.

and when you are possessed, you are no longer trying to make order from chaos, you have stopped expanding and you have stopped growing.
now you will be prone to bitterness, resentment and cruelty.

we all know this

isis are cruel
pol pot and mao were cruel
the rich industrialist who sent little kids down the coal mine was cruel,

cruel bitter and resentful.

So, perhaps, now aqua is saying that he believes market forces aren't pure  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked ?


Huh Huh Huh

So, perhaps, now aqua is saying that he believes market forces aren't pure  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked ?


Huh Huh Huh



So, perhaps, now aqua is saying that he believes market forces aren't pure  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked ?


Huh Huh Huh






So, perhaps, now aqua is saying that he believes market forces aren't pure  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked ?


Huh Huh Huh
Back to top
 

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
IP Logged
 
Unforgiven
Gold Member
*****
Offline


I have sinned

Posts: 8879
Gender: male
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2018 at 2:59pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 6:03pm:
... At the moment, it seems to many people like myself,
that many others in our communities, simply want to avoid confronting hard questions. ...


Denizen Yadda evidently grasps hard things in his reach and throttles them vigorously until no longer hard.
Back to top
 

“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan
 
IP Logged
 
tickleandrose
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3867
Gender: female
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #9 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 12:42pm
 
re Yadda

Quote:
Yadda agrees with Niemoller.

I would hope, that some time in the future, Australia could decide to lawfully execute convicted jihadists [i.e. those convicted  of either being involved with 1/ planning or 2/ [tried to] carrying out a mass casualty attack].

I would prefer the guillotine.

And i for one,       would volunteer to pull the rope to the latch.


Yadda, if you think like that.  Then please, find yourself a good mentor for your religious studies.  You are falling into the evil side.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20901
A cat with a view
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #10 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 6:45pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 12:42pm:
re Yadda

Quote:
Yadda agrees with Niemoller.

I would hope, that some time in the future, Australia could decide to lawfully execute convicted jihadists [i.e. those convicted  of either being involved with 1/ planning or 2/ [tried to] carrying out a mass casualty attack].

I would prefer the guillotine.

And i for one,       would volunteer to pull the rope to the latch.



Yadda, if you think like that.

Then please, find yourself a good mentor for your religious studies.

You are falling into the evil side.
 





tickleandrose,

Your estimation is that;        To judge and condemn [and punish] wicked and violent men, is a form of evil ?

Oh yes!

Of course it is, because we have to forgive.

And have to show mercy, to wicked and violent men,      don't we !
/sarc off

No [emphatically], we don't!




The God i seek, tells us, that when     we     refuse to judge and condemn [and punish] wicked and violent men, WE OURSELVES ARE WICKED [i.e. we share their wickedness].

He tells us, that when     we     refuse to protect the innocent, in that, we refuse to judge and condemn [and punish] wicked and violent men, WE OURSELVES ARE WICKED [i.e. we share their wickedness].

And,      we      multiply lawlessness in the land!



.



Isaiah 1:17
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.


Q.
How do we     at all    'relieve the oppressed', unless we are willing, to judge and to condemn [and to punish] the wicked and the oppressor ?



tickleandrose,

This life comes with responsibilities for ourselves, towards others.

But i do not feel, that i have any 'responsibility', to excuse or to forgive unrepentant wicked and violent men, or such men, who are planning wicked and violent actions.

Quite the contrary.

Scripture teaches me, that if we see an innocent person being spoiled, or raped, or oppressed,
we have a minimum responsibility to speak up [as a witness against the wicked and the oppressor].




Read your Bible.  [...which is a good spiritual mentor for all men - read the Book of Proverbs!]

tickleandrose,

I don't know if you do read the Bible, or if you respect what its words repeatedly state.

But i try to.

But if you disagree with me [with my opinion], then i want [am happy for] you to condemn me.

And, let the God of truth and righteousness, judge between us.


tickleandrose,

The SPIRIT tells me, that it is     wicked men      who are frightened of, and who condemn others,
....whenever they see those others calling for the judgement and the punishment of wicked and violent men.




.




Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.


Leviticus 19:15
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.


Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.


Psalms 23:3
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.


Isaiah 48:17
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18  O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:


Jeremiah 21:12
O house of David, thus saith the LORD; Execute judgment in the morning, and deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor, lest my fury go out like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.


Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.


Jeremiah 9:24
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


Amos 5:15
Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.




in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour
.
they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked
.
Execute judgment
.
deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor
.
Execute ye judgment and righteousness
.
deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor
.
establish judgment


Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 20901
A cat with a view
Re: Jihad - Is it a war ? Or is it a crime spree ?
Reply #11 - Jul 30th, 2018 at 6:56pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jul 30th, 2018 at 6:45pm:

This life comes with responsibilities for ourselves, towards others.

But i do not feel, that i have any 'responsibility', to excuse or to forgive unrepentant wicked and violent men, or such men, who are planning wicked and violent actions.

Quite the contrary.




What to do,      with those who would involve themselves with 1/ planning or 2/ [tried to] carrying out a mass casualty attack ?


Deuteronomy 19:16
If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17  Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18  And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19  Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20  And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
21  And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print