Now that's a question close to FD's heart: should Australia become a part of Islam?

Jot it down for when you join the Border Force, FD. It could lead to lots of supplimentaries about cat meat and covering up on our fine beaches.

Not at all, Issue. A Muslim subject is simply a person who follows one God.

A Muslim subject is simply a person who follows one God. The "West" as you put it is an agnostic social & political construct that favours human rights.

Please insert your own definition of the West at your own volition.

The doctrine of the West assumes a belief in God, or a freedom of religion at any rate. It is no more incompatible with "Islam", as you put it, than it is with Catholicism, Protestantism, or the Hinduism and Buddhism it is applied to in Asia - or the Jewish identity it is applied to in Israel. We call these states secular, as are the states where the majority of Muslims live, and quite happily if I might say.

The majority of people don't move to foreign states for political issues, they do so for economic reasons. Many Hindus and Catholics, for example, move to Saudi Arabia for the work. Likewise, many Muslims move to our fine country. No one expects us to become Muslim, as you put it, as a condition of their moving here. No one, unless they're completely insane.

You?

Again, I thank you for a masterful reply.

Karnal: “A Muzlim is simply one who follows one God.”

Wouldn't it be nice if it was that simple. Unfortunately, a Muzlim is one who believes Mohamed was the messeger of God, bringing the word of God in the Koran via the angel Gabriel, which you already acknowledge. Your definition is purely for Western consumption. Try it in Mecca, if you actually believe it. Tell them that anyone who believes in one God is a Muzlim. Jews perhaps.

Western tolerance of differing religions is not a “doctrine” anymore than gay marriage is. It is a legal matter that interprets society's evolving humanistic values and morals. And as such is completely at odds with Islam that tolerates no one other than the faithful, dicriminating in various ways as soon as it has the numbers in any given area. Hence the murders in Africa, India, Indonesia, and the Philippines, to mention a few areas.

Whether people emmigrate to find employment is quite beside the point. Muzlims bring with them their superstition, and their insistance that their interpetation of reality is the only Holy frame of mind. It is ignorance of the first order, and they intend to hold it above everything else: culture, law, philosphy, religion, and art, wherever they go. 

Which once again, brings us back to the question whether you, or Gandalf wish for that here. But you cannot answer anymore than Gandalf.

The Book of the Kind Treatment of Women

Chapter: Jealousy

It was narrated from Anas, that the Messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse, but 'Aishah and Hafsah would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him. Then Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed:
"O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allah has allowed to you.' until the end of the Verse.

https://sunnah.com/nasai/36/21

The Book of Jihad and Expeditions

Chapter: Permissibility of raiding the Kuffar, who have been reached with the call of Islam, without giving prior warning

Ibn 'Aun reported:
I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/1

issuevoter wrote on May 14^th, 2018 at 9:08pm:


Muslims also believe Muhammad was the perfect example of man.

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How did this so called perfect man find his  wife called Juwairiya?

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As if "Islam" is some geographic place with borders.

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For most of its history, it was.

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 6:00pm:


Islam is faith in God, and it occupies only the hearts of the believers.

Geographic places with borders are actually the very antithesis of true Islam.

But please don't think you need to start a new thread from this statement.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 8:23pm:


You mean geographic places like that old pagan shrine in Mecca?

asked you this question after you said that any theocracy has a right to have nuclear weapons.

I remind you that Iran describes the USA as the great Satan, and Muzlims are required to destroy Satan. I know you trust them because you share their frame of mind. I do not, a reasoned position that rejects their moralising and claim of divine guidance, and for this you charge me with bigotry.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 16^th, 2018 at 11:13am:



Like these wonderful muslim immigrants we see here in Sydney.

We should never tolerate the intolerant, even if they demand to practice their insane religious horsesh1t.

Mattyfisk wrote on May 17^th, 2018 at 4:48pm:



Watching their fkkhead parents getting throat punched and told the truth about god and religion.

As all little terrorist cvvnts should.

"Islamic" society trully is - one that is accepting of diversity in terms of beliefs and religions, upholds justice and human rights - including the right to practice your religion fully and without fear.

2:6-7 allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment 

In their hearts is disease, so allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie. 2:10

3:19. Truly, the religion with allah is islam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of allah, then surely, allah is Swift in calling to account.

4.143 : (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it,- being (sincerely) for neither one group nor for another whom allah causes to go astray,- never wilt thou find for him the way.

5:41 O messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah. Those are the ones for whom allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

6.039 : Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom he willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight

6:125 So whoever allah wants to guide - he expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - he makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

10.100 : No soul can believe,except by the will of allah, and he will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

13.027 : The Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his lord?" Say: "Truly allah leaveth, to stray, whom he will; But he guideth to himself those who turn to him in penitence,

13:33-34 allah leads disbelievers astry while he torments them in this life. Then afterh they die, he makes them suffer even more pain in the doom of the Hereafter.

14.004 : We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now allah leaves straying those whom he pleases and guides whom he pleases: and he is exalted in power, full of wisdom.

14:27 allah keeps firm those who believe, with the firm word, in worldly life and in the Hereafter. And allah sends astray the wrongdoers. And allah does what He wills.

17.046 : And we put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy lord and him alone in the qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the truth).

16.093 : If allah so willed, he could make you all one people: But he leaves straying whom he pleases, and he guides whom he pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions. 

17:97 And whoever allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever he sends astray - you will never find for them protectors besides him, and We will gather them on the Day of Resurrection [fallen] on their faces - blind, dumb and deaf. Their refuge is hell; every time it subsides We increase them in blazing fire. 

18.057 : And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the signs of his lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily we have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.

19.083 : Seest thou not that We have set the evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury?

27.004 : As to those who believe not in the hereafter, we have made their deeds pleasing in their eyes; and so they wander about in distraction.

32;13 If we had so willed, we could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the word from me will come true, "I will fill hell with jinns and men all together."

BigOl64 wrote on May 17^th, 2018 at 5:10pm:


Any particular way you want them punched, Hole?

What parts of their little terrorist bodies?

I'm curious.

Don't want to say, eh? Apologising for these despicable Musel terrorists now, are we?

We had a term for cnts like you in Nam:

Fair game.

issuevoter wrote on May 20^th, 2018 at 5:46pm:


And don't forget Pakistani.  Karnal will be disappointed if you do.

So the question still stands, “Do you wish for Australia to become part of Islam?”

issuevoter wrote on May 17^th, 2018 at 8:46am:


Clearly the 'question still stands' for no other reason than you didn't like the answer I've already given. If so, too bad - and I'll reiterate in case it wasn't clear:

I do not need to wish for Australia to be part of Islam, because it is already part of Islam. My ability to worship freely and practice my religious duty in this country without fear, is precisely what becoming "part of Islam" is.

I'm sorry I didn't give you the "yes I want head chopping for apostasy etc to be part of Australia" answer that you clearly so desperately wanted.

Personally, I can't think of anything more crass or belittling than for someone who has no connection or affiliation to my faith, to dictate to me that my deeply personal and spiritual religion is definitely nothing but a base political entity with, wait for it, geographical boundaries.

But that's just sneaky, tricky little me I guess

Islam is not your private, personal space, pal. Muslims have no connection or affiliation to jews, christians, hindus, atheists, yet they slaughter them in the name of your 'deeply personal and spiritual'     religion.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 21^st, 2018 at 7:56pm:

Islam is not your private, personal space, pal.

So, Yes or NO? Do you wish for Australia to become part of Islam?

Especially when your coreligionists who DO share your deeply held religious belief kill people whose deeply felt religious beliefs  they despise. As i said to you many times, thats the are you should exert yourself, among your seething coreligionists, not among critics of Islam.

Frank wrote on May 23^rd, 2018 at 11:01pm:


I believe I've asked you variations of this question before, a number of times, but never got an actual answer. But I'll ask again for the hell of it...

Would you agree that you share "deeply held beliefs" about European culture and its incompatibility with non-Europeans (particularly Islam) - with terrorists like Anders Brievik?

Why can't we apply the same flawed logic you apply to me, to you?

Most Islamic terrorists wouldn't have even read the Quran, let alone spent time on reflecting on its sinister meanings. And the real kicker to your flawed logic is the cold hard truth that the great majority of Quranic scholars are opposed to terrorism, and preach against it.

Frank wrote on May 24^th, 2018 at 7:41pm:


Speaking of being stupid and blind - reducing Islamic terrorism to nothing but interpreting a sacred text in a complete vacuum, has to be right up there.

Most Islamic terrorists wouldn't have even read the Quran, let alone spent time on reflecting on its sinister meanings. And the real kicker to your flawed logic is the cold hard truth that the great majority of Quranic scholars are opposed to terrorism, and preach against it.

There is simply no logic in lumping me in with the terrorists on the simplistic basis that we "share" the same book, and therefore its "terrorist" ideology. The logical fallacy should be obvious, and which I have pointed out to you umpteen times before. I have specifically and rigorously rejected the terrorist/violent interpretation of the Quran. And yet, you can't even use this defense in your own case. You *DO* agree with the hostile (if not violent) ideology Brievik has for non-Europeans - especially muslims. By your own rationale, you are complicit in Brievik's terrorism - in exactly the same way you say I am complicit in Islamic terrorism. And whether or not there is some magical sacred book doesn't make a damn of difference. Why would it? We're talking about ideology - whether it comes from a specific book, or from a "MUCH bigger civilisational and cultural discontentment" - or spongebob squarepants. It doesn't matter diddly squat. A terrorist ideology that actually kills people is a terrorist ideology that actually kills people. And the fact is, you "own" the essense of terrorist ideology, while I have disowned it utterly and completely.

And thats why I'll always throw this back at you whenever you absurdly lump me in with terrorists.

Enlightenment is possible in christianity only. It  is impossible in Islam.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 25^th, 2018 at 2:52pm:


There are also some stats around showing that a lot of Islamic extremists are highly educated.

Frank wrote on May 25^th, 2018 at 10:00pm:

I don't know what you mean by enlightenment. I mentioned the Enlightenment, a loose term for a period of philosophical examination among educated Europeans.

Mattyfisk wrote on May 25^th, 2018 at 10:44pm:

Mulslims call thinking for yourself - enlightenment - apostasy and will kill you for it. But you are ready to eat crap anywhere, anytime, so you are at home there, paki. 

Mattyfisk wrote on May 26^th, 2018 at 10:26pm:


It's funny, people say you cannot remember when you are a 0-24 months old. I remember painting my bedroom wall with my shyte when I was about 12 months old through the white bars of my cot, I was put in there to sleep and was bored shytelessfull, dipping into my nappy for the medium of my creativity. I also remember my grandmother and auntie's visit when I was 18 months and the gift they brought for me.

Mattyfisk wrote on May 26^th, 2018 at 11:42pm:


I think I remember it because my mum was like, oh no! and I thought I was doing a good job.

I've seen this kind of adamant statement a number of times on the forum recently. One was from Red Baron who insisted he knew about God. It is not his place to lecture us here, on his beliefs as if they were fact. He and others do not seem to give a damn how arrogant and conceited their statements are. For one thing, its not polite.

In our society, dealings with the religion of Islam are governed by law, and at present the preponderance of public opinion supports equality between the religions.

Just quickly, religious tolerance, "a pillar of the Enlightenment,"was forced on the Church, it was not through inherent Christian benevolence.

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Crap. It's what they think. Would you have them start each sentence with "it is merely my opinion that..."? You project arrogance onto what you disagree with - how dare they be so certain of something I disagree with...

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Equality before the law. Not equality of. It merely means the government does not pick winners (or losers) when it comes to religion.

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How do you know this? You make the distinction between the church and christian benevolence, but then fail to see it. Why is it not possible that something inherent in the religion undermined the power-lust inherent in the institution that sprang from the religion?

And how do you maintain the pretence of "equality before the law" when you plan to interrogate anyone who looks tinted at the airport and ban them on the off chance they might be Muslim?

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Non-citizens are not equal before Australian law.

Mattyfisk wrote on May 28^th, 2018 at 10:03pm:

Shite sandwiches are two threads down, paki.  Move on.

Mattyfisk wrote on May 30^th, 2018 at 9:40pm:

What aspects of jihad, ummah, Submission, sharia should I tolerate, paki? What aspects of open hostility and efforts to destroy Western liberal, enlightened life should I tolerate? Which of these do you swallow with your regular ingestion of other shite, paki?
Shite is pretty tinted already. How much more tinted do you like it?

There is no misinterpreting Islam which demands Submission and is an example of suppression and subjugation to itself everywhere.

There IS a misinterpretation of freedom, liberty, knowledge, self-actualisation, personal worth - that is, Western secular liberalism that has grown out of Christianity and Judaism and these religions' ability to dialogues with dissenters because of their essential humanity. Brevik isn't one of those misinterpreters.

There is no humanising and dialoguing with Islam because Mohammed has painted you all into a corner from which there is no conversational or reasonable exit for you. You are shackled with idiotic demands on your left foot and your mother's right teat (or whatever). 

The central problem for Islam is that it cannot shed the 7th century. Mohammed locked you into a time warp and you just have to make the most of it. It was OK for most of the last 14 centuries when most of the rest of the world was locked in their own particular time warps. but the West in particular has busted out of those shackles which makes you Muslims look particularly stupid and stuck in the mud with no way out. You HAVE to validate the minutiae of 7th century Arabia in 21 century Western (and other) world. But it doesn't work so you threaten death to anyone who laughs at you. You shoot up people who laugh at your ridiculous self-contortions.