Australian Politics Forum - Gandalf caught without options.

issuevoter

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Gandalf caught without options.
May 10^th, 2018 at 11:32am

While very loud in his condemnation of those who cite the real ugliness of Islam, Gandalf was asked “Did he wish for Australia to become part of Islam?”

He refuses to answer the rather simple, yes or no, question, and I cannot blame him.

Gandalf's problem, is that, as a Muzlim, he cannot afford to say, “No.”

Neither option is very flattering, but no one would be all that surprised if he said “Yes,” and one of Australia's most endearing qualities, is its tolerance of ratbags.

It might be said that he isn't shown much of that fine old quality here, but with Gandalf, Australia's best qualities come last against Islam anyway. And so silence is his only resort.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92264 Gender:	Re: Gandalf caught without options. Reply #1 - May 10^th, 2018 at 10:39pm Now that's a question close to FD's heart: should Australia become a part of Islam? Jot it down for when you join the Border Force, FD. It could lead to lots of supplimentaries about cat meat and covering up on our fine beaches.
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issuevoter

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #2 - May 11^th, 2018 at 2:22pm

Mattyfisk wrote on May 10^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Now that's a question close to FD's heart: should Australia become a part of Islam?

Jot it down for when you join the Border Force, FD. It could lead to lots of supplimentaries about cat meat and covering up on our fine beaches.

Thank your for your interest in this question. Please be assured I will respond when I have given your thoughts their due consideration.

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Frank

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #3 - May 11^th, 2018 at 6:04pm

Mattyfisk wrote on May 10^th, 2018 at 10:39pm:

Now that's a question close to FD's heart: should Australia become a part of Islam?

Jot it down for when you join the Border Force, FD. It could lead to lots of supplimentaries about cat meat and covering up on our fine beaches.

Do you think Gandalf wants Australia to become part of the Ummah? You speak on his behalf every other time, grimacing Paki - so tell us what he thinks on this. There's 10 rupees in it for you.

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issuevoter

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #4 - May 12^th, 2018 at 2:36pm

Karnal, thanks for your patience.

After giving you comments some thought, I probably should not respond as they are directed at FD. But I can respond to your wonderful comment made when I first questioned Gandalf. You piped up with, “And why not, its a free world?”

You are confusing the English idiomatic indignant claim, that goes like this,“Its a free country.” So native speakers of English would get a wry smile out of your Malaprop as we all know it is not a free world.

And it is most especially not a “Free World” when Islam issues fatwas against anyone who displeases their sense of divine purpose. (This is a very important point, as muzlims claim they are God's gift to the Earth.)

Nor is the world free where the El Shebab Muzlims stoned a woman to death on Wednesday, or where an Atheist is about to be executed by a government recognised by the UN. Even a cursory glance at “freedom” in Islam, should answer your question, “And why not?”

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #5 - May 12^th, 2018 at 5:30pm

issuevoter wrote on May 12^th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

Karnal, thanks for your patience.

After giving you comments some thought, I probably should not respond as they are directed at FD. But I can respond to your wonderful comment made when I first questioned Gandalf. You piped up with, “And why not, its a free world?”

You are confusing the English idiomatic indignant claim, that goes like this,“Its a free country.” So native speakers of English would get a wry smile out of your Malaprop as we all know it is not a free world.

And it is most especially not a “Free World” when Islam issues fatwas against anyone who displeases their sense of divine purpose. (This is a very important point, as muzlims claim they are God's gift to the Earth.)

Nor is the world free where the El Shebab Muzlims stoned a woman to death on Wednesday, or where an Atheist is about to be executed by a government recognised by the UN. Even a cursory glance at “freedom” in Islam, should answer your question, “And why not?”

A masterful reply, Issue. I was just wondering how Australia could become a part of something generically labelled "Islam".

Halal Vegemite? Holdens? VB?

What's Islam? But such a riddle captures another enigma: what's Australia?

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issuevoter

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #6 - May 13^th, 2018 at 10:19pm

Karnal,

My reply is not “masterful,” as you put it. It simply addresses the subject which you avoid in two ways. I suggest you put a bit more substance in your replies, if you want to be taken seriously. After all, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

But then you slip straight into playing coy about what becoming part of Islam would mean, and what Australia means. You imply that Islam values are at least as desirable as the West's, and Australia's in particular. Of course you could prove this by going to live in Islam, if you are not there already. Or you could just explain why you would want to . . . which brings us right back to the question I asked Gandalf.

Perhaps you can find a reference to a Muzlim coming to Australia to adopt Australian and Western values. Isn't that person an apostate, and liable to beheading?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #7 - May 13^th, 2018 at 10:48pm

issuevoter wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 10:19pm:

Karnal,

My reply is not “masterful,” as you put it. It simply addresses the subject which you avoid in two ways. I suggest you put a bit more substance in your replies, if you want to be taken seriously. After all, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

But then you slip straight into playing coy about what becoming part of Islam would mean, and what Australia means. You imply that Islam values are at least as desirable as the West's, and Australia's in particular. Of course you could prove this by going to live in Islam, if you are not there already. Or you could just explain why you would want to . . . which brings us right back to the question I asked Gandalf.

Perhaps you can find a reference to a Muzlim coming to Australia to adopt Australian and Western values. Isn't that person an apostate, and liable to beheading?

Not at all, Issue. A Muslim subject is simply a person who follows one God. The "West" as you put it is an agnostic social & political construct that favours human rights.

Please insert your own definition of the West at your own volition.

The doctrine of the West assumes a belief in God, or a freedom of religion at any rate. It is no more incompatible with "Islam", as you put it, than it is with Catholicism, Protestantism, or the Hinduism and Buddhism it is applied to in Asia - or the Jewish identity it is applied to in Israel. We call these states secular, as are the states where the majority of Muslims live, and quite happily if I might say.

The majority of people don't move to foreign states for political issues, they do so for economic reasons. Many Hindus and Catholics, for example, move to Saudi Arabia for the work. Likewise, many Muslims move to our fine country. No one expects us to become Muslim, as you put it, as a condition of their moving here. No one, unless they're completely insane.

You?

Again, I thank you for a masterful reply.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Gandalf caught without options. Reply #8 - May 14^th, 2018 at 6:13pm Quote: Not at all, Issue. A Muslim subject is simply a person who follows one God. Nothing to do with Muhammad eh? I see Karnal is employing Auggie's trick of defining the world's problems out of existence.
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issuevoter

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #9 - May 14^th, 2018 at 9:08pm

Karnal: “A Muzlim is simply one who follows one God.”

Wouldn't it be nice if it was that simple. Unfortunately, a Muzlim is one who believes Mohamed was the messeger of God, bringing the word of God in the Koran via the angel Gabriel, which you already acknowledge. Your definition is purely for Western consumption. Try it in Mecca, if you actually believe it. Tell them that anyone who believes in one God is a Muzlim. Jews perhaps.

Western tolerance of differing religions is not a “doctrine” anymore than gay marriage is. It is a legal matter that interprets society's evolving humanistic values and morals. And as such is completely at odds with Islam that tolerates no one other than the faithful, dicriminating in various ways as soon as it has the numbers in any given area. Hence the murders in Africa, India, Indonesia, and the Philippines, to mention a few areas.

Whether people emmigrate to find employment is quite beside the point. Muzlims bring with them their superstition, and their insistance that their interpetation of reality is the only Holy frame of mind. It is ignorance of the first order, and they intend to hold it above everything else: culture, law, philosphy, religion, and art, wherever they go.

Which once again, brings us back to the question whether you, or Gandalf wish for that here. But you cannot answer anymore than Gandalf.

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Frank

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #10 - May 14^th, 2018 at 9:12pm

Mattyfisk wrote on May 13^th, 2018 at 10:48pm:

A Muslim subject is simply a person who follows one God. The "West" as you put it is an agnostic social & political construct that favours human rights.

Please insert your own definition of the West at your own volition.

The doctrine of the West assumes a belief in God, or a freedom of religion at any rate. It is no more incompatible with "Islam", as you put it, than it is with Catholicism, Protestantism, or the Hinduism and Buddhism it is applied to in Asia - or the Jewish identity it is applied to in Israel. We call these states secular, as are the states where the majority of Muslims live, and quite happily if I might say.

The majority of people don't move to foreign states for political issues, they do so for economic reasons. Many Hindus and Catholics, for example, move to Saudi Arabia for the work. Likewise, many Muslims move to our fine country. No one expects us to become Muslim, as you put it, as a condition of their moving here. No one, unless they're completely insane.

You?

Again, I thank you for a masterful reply.

You despicable liar. You wash together, lyingly, secularism, agnosticism and the separation of state and church. You also lie about "a person who follows one God." Islam does not afford 'Muslim' status to all who follows one god, you liar.

Over a million Muslims moved to Europe in the last two years illegally. They have cause massive social disruption because they simply refused to obey the law. They lie about their motives, their age, their identity, their purpose. They destroy the social fabric of countries that take them in.

The whole world is NOT for Muslims. They have spread wide enough. Stop them. Letting in endless Muslims will transform every country they happen to invade. France will not be France with Muslims at 20-50%, nor Sweden, Germany, Belgium, Italy, England, Australia. What will be the homeland of Swedes when the Muslims take control in about 20 years? Belgians? Dutch? Danes? English?

Islam is militant and it is political. It's no mere spiritual aspiration or private creed. It is a very aggressive political force. Nut you know that yet you lie.

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Frank

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #11 - May 14^th, 2018 at 9:15pm

Mattyfisk wrote on May 12^th, 2018 at 5:30pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 12^th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

Karnal, thanks for your patience.

After giving you comments some thought, I probably should not respond as they are directed at FD. But I can respond to your wonderful comment made when I first questioned Gandalf. You piped up with, “And why not, its a free world?”

You are confusing the English idiomatic indignant claim, that goes like this,“Its a free country.” So native speakers of English would get a wry smile out of your Malaprop as we all know it is not a free world.

And it is most especially not a “Free World” when Islam issues fatwas against anyone who displeases their sense of divine purpose. (This is a very important point, as muzlims claim they are God's gift to the Earth.)

Nor is the world free where the El Shebab Muzlims stoned a woman to death on Wednesday, or where an Atheist is about to be executed by a government recognised by the UN. Even a cursory glance at “freedom” in Islam, should answer your question, “And why not?”

A masterful reply, Issue. I was just wondering how Australia could become a part of something generically labelled "Islam".

Halal Vegemite? Holdens? VB?

What's Islam? But such a riddle captures another enigma: what's Australia?

You lying, despicable dissembler. What is Islam??? What is Australia??? What the hell are you?? (Other than an eager consumer of fecal sandwiches? )

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #12 - May 14^th, 2018 at 10:07pm

issuevoter wrote on May 14^th, 2018 at 9:08pm:

Karnal: “A Muzlim is simply one who follows one God.”

Wouldn't it be nice if it was that simple. Unfortunately, a Muzlim is one who believes Mohamed was the messeger of God, bringing the word of God in the Koran via the angel Gabriel, which you already acknowledge. Your definition is purely for Western consumption. Try it in Mecca, if you actually believe it. Tell them that anyone who believes in one God is a Muzlim. Jews perhaps.

Western tolerance of differing religions is not a “doctrine” anymore than gay marriage is. It is a legal matter that interprets society's evolving humanistic values and morals. And as such is completely at odds with Islam that tolerates no one other than the faithful, dicriminating in various ways as soon as it has the numbers in any given area. Hence the murders in Africa, India, Indonesia, and the Philippines, to mention a few areas.

Whether people emmigrate to find employment is quite beside the point. Muzlims bring with them their superstition, and their insistance that their interpetation of reality is the only Holy frame of mind. It is ignorance of the first order, and they intend to hold it above everything else: culture, law, philosphy, religion, and art, wherever they go.

Which once again, brings us back to the question whether you, or Gandalf wish for that here. But you cannot answer anymore than Gandalf.

Muslims also believe Muhammad was the perfect example of man.

Quote:

The Book of the Kind Treatment of Women

Chapter: Jealousy

It was narrated from Anas, that the Messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse, but 'Aishah and Hafsah would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him. Then Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed:
"O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allah has allowed to you.' until the end of the Verse.

https://sunnah.com/nasai/36/21

How did this so called perfect man find his wife called Juwairiya?

Quote:

The Book of Jihad and Expeditions

Chapter: Permissibility of raiding the Kuffar, who have been reached with the call of Islam, without giving prior warning

Ibn 'Aun reported:
I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/1

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #13 - May 14^th, 2018 at 10:16pm

Frank wrote on May 14^th, 2018 at 9:15pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on May 12^th, 2018 at 5:30pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 12^th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

Karnal, thanks for your patience.

After giving you comments some thought, I probably should not respond as they are directed at FD. But I can respond to your wonderful comment made when I first questioned Gandalf. You piped up with, “And why not, its a free world?”

You are confusing the English idiomatic indignant claim, that goes like this,“Its a free country.” So native speakers of English would get a wry smile out of your Malaprop as we all know it is not a free world.

And it is most especially not a “Free World” when Islam issues fatwas against anyone who displeases their sense of divine purpose. (This is a very important point, as muzlims claim they are God's gift to the Earth.)

Nor is the world free where the El Shebab Muzlims stoned a woman to death on Wednesday, or where an Atheist is about to be executed by a government recognised by the UN. Even a cursory glance at “freedom” in Islam, should answer your question, “And why not?”

A masterful reply, Issue. I was just wondering how Australia could become a part of something generically labelled "Islam".

Halal Vegemite? Holdens? VB?

What's Islam? But such a riddle captures another enigma: what's Australia?

You lying, despicable dissembler. What is Islam??? What is Australia??? What the hell are you?? (Other than an eager consumer of fecal sandwiches? )

Oh no, dear boy, I like Danish.

You?

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issuevoter

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Re: Gandalf caught without options.
Reply #14 - May 15^th, 2018 at 2:57pm

Baronvonrort wrote on May 14^th, 2018 at 10:07pm:

issuevoter wrote on May 14^th, 2018 at 9:08pm:

Karnal: “A Muzlim is simply one who follows one God.”

Wouldn't it be nice if it was that simple. Unfortunately, a Muzlim is one who believes Mohamed was the messeger of God, bringing the word of God in the Koran via the angel Gabriel, which you already acknowledge. Your definition is purely for Western consumption. Try it in Mecca, if you actually believe it. Tell them that anyone who believes in one God is a Muzlim. Jews perhaps.

Western tolerance of differing religions is not a “doctrine” anymore than gay marriage is. It is a legal matter that interprets society's evolving humanistic values and morals. And as such is completely at odds with Islam that tolerates no one other than the faithful, dicriminating in various ways as soon as it has the numbers in any given area. Hence the murders in Africa, India, Indonesia, and the Philippines, to mention a few areas.

Whether people emmigrate to find employment is quite beside the point. Muzlims bring with them their superstition, and their insistance that their interpetation of reality is the only Holy frame of mind. It is ignorance of the first order, and they intend to hold it above everything else: culture, law, philosphy, religion, and art, wherever they go.

Which once again, brings us back to the question whether you, or Gandalf wish for that here. But you cannot answer anymore than Gandalf.

Muslims also believe Muhammad was the perfect example of man.

Quote:

The Book of the Kind Treatment of Women

Chapter: Jealousy

It was narrated from Anas, that the Messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse, but 'Aishah and Hafsah would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him. Then Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed:
"O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allah has allowed to you.' until the end of the Verse.

https://sunnah.com/nasai/36/21

How did this so called perfect man find his wife called Juwairiya?

Quote:

The Book of Jihad and Expeditions

Chapter: Permissibility of raiding the Kuffar, who have been reached with the call of Islam, without giving prior warning

Ibn 'Aun reported:
I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/1

That millions actual believe such raving and call it Holy, is beyond the realm of reason.

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