Australian Politics Forum - Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA

Frank

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #75 - May 15^th, 2018 at 7:01pm

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 5:57pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 5:30pm:

fun fact - American muslims are better educated and in higher paid professions than the American average. Muslim immigrants are also rated as among the best integrated of all American immigrant groups.

Is this a made-up fact or a real one Gandalf?

Half and half.

Muslim Integration
The percentage of U.S. Muslims in individual income and education brackets tracks closely to that of the rest of the U.S. population, surveys suggest. According to a 2009 Gallup poll, U.S. Muslims have the second-highest level of education among major religious groups in the United States. Almost 50 percent of Muslims identify with religion before their U.S. identity (nearly half of U.S. Christians polled by Gallup also identified with their religion first). That percentage is significantly higher than percentages of Muslims recognizing national identity first in Europe and in many Muslim nations, according to Pew polls.

Surveys also show U.S. Muslims overall are more affluent and educated than Muslim communities in Western Europe, which have had significant issues with poverty and integration. For example, a 2007 Pew poll found just 2 percent of U.S. Muslims in the lowest income bracket, while Muslims in Britain, France, and Germany made up around 20 percent of those countries’ low-income populations.
...
Still, while U.S. Muslims may be more integrated than those in Europe, Pew polling shows most U.S. Muslims feel alienated and singled out in the war on terror, though that perception hasn’t increased in the last decade. Muslims also struggle with how much they should integrate U.S. culture and mores into their daily lives. According to a 2011 Gallup poll, Muslim Americans are the least likely of any religious group to be registered to vote, for example.

"A Muslim population that feels at home in and with the West will not produce people who wish to undermine it," writes CFR’s Ed Husain. "Muslim leaders in Britain and America are still struggling to articulate confidently a form of Islam that is in harmony with the modern world."

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/muslims-united-states

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #76 - May 15^th, 2018 at 7:13pm

Frank wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 5:57pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 5:30pm:

fun fact - American muslims are better educated and in higher paid professions than the American average. Muslim immigrants are also rated as among the best integrated of all American immigrant groups.

Is this a made-up fact or a real one Gandalf?

Half and half.

Muslim Integration
The percentage of U.S. Muslims in individual income and education brackets tracks closely to that of the rest of the U.S. population, surveys suggest. According to a 2009 Gallup poll, U.S. Muslims have the second-highest level of education among major religious groups in the United States. Almost 50 percent of Muslims identify with religion before their U.S. identity (nearly half of U.S. Christians polled by Gallup also identified with their religion first). That percentage is significantly higher than percentages of Muslims recognizing national identity first in Europe and in many Muslim nations, according to Pew polls.

Surveys also show U.S. Muslims overall are more affluent and educated than Muslim communities in Western Europe, which have had significant issues with poverty and integration. For example, a 2007 Pew poll found just 2 percent of U.S. Muslims in the lowest income bracket, while Muslims in Britain, France, and Germany made up around 20 percent of those countries’ low-income populations.
...
Still, while U.S. Muslims may be more integrated than those in Europe, Pew polling shows most U.S. Muslims feel alienated and singled out in the war on terror, though that perception hasn’t increased in the last decade. Muslims also struggle with how much they should integrate U.S. culture and mores into their daily lives. According to a 2011 Gallup poll, Muslim Americans are the least likely of any religious group to be registered to vote, for example.

"A Muslim population that feels at home in and with the West will not produce people who wish to undermine it," writes CFR’s Ed Husain. "Muslim leaders in Britain and America are still struggling to articulate confidently a form of Islam that is in harmony with the modern world."

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/muslims-united-states

Ee-gad, looks like the old boy upholds the use of truth in his campaign against the Muselman. Hear that, FD?

What next? FBI statistics on US terrorism?

Shurely shome mishtake.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #77 - May 15^th, 2018 at 8:39pm

Quote:

The household income levels of American Muslims are about as evenly distributed as the general American population.[107] Among South Asians in the country, the large Pakistani American community stands out as particularly well educated and prosperous, with education and income levels exceeding those of U.S.-born whites. Many are professionals, especially in medicine (they account for 2.7-5% of America’s physicians),[108][109] scientists, engineers, and financial analysts, and there are also a large number of entrepreneurs. There are more than 15,000 medical doctors practicing medicine in the USA who are of Pakistani origin alone[110] and the number of Pakistani American millionaires was reported to be in the thousands. Shahid Khan a Pakistani-born American multi billionaire businessmen owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars of the National Football League (NFL) making him the first and only ethnic minority member to own one, he also owns English Premier League team Fulham F.C., and automobile parts manufacturer Flex-N-Gate in Urbana, Illinois.[111] 45 percent of immigrant Muslims report annual household income levels of $50,000 or higher. This compares to the national average of 44 percent. Immigrant Muslims are well represented among higher-income earners, with 19 percent having annual household incomes of $100,000 or higher (compared to 16 percent for the Muslim population as a whole and 17 percent for the U.S. average). This is likely due to the strong concentration of Muslims in professional, managerial, and technical fields, especially in information technology, education, medicine, law, and the corporate world.[112]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Education_and_income

Quote:

When it comes to the traditional markers of the so-called American dream, the Pew survey showed that Muslim Americans were just as likely to achieve them as other Americans. Muslim Americans are just as likely to have graduated from college. They are just as likely to have an annual household income of above $100,000. They are self-employed or own their own businesses at the same rate as other Americans.
“Comparable percentages say they watch entertainment television, follow professional or college sports, recycle household materials, and play video games,” Pew reported.
A 2009 Gallup survey found that Muslim American women were among the most educated in the country, second only to Jewish American women.
The 2011 Pew report found that 63 percent of Muslims in the United State were first-generation immigrants, but Muslim Americans were more likely to become citizens of the United States than other immigrant groups. Eighty-one percent of Muslim Americans are citizens, including 70 percent of those born outside of the United States.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/donald-trump-muslim-integration

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #78 - May 15^th, 2018 at 10:21pm

Gandalf, how do you get from this:

Quote:

The household income levels of American Muslims are about as evenly distributed as the general American population.

Quote:

When it comes to the traditional markers of the so-called American dream, the Pew survey showed that Muslim Americans were just as likely to achieve them as other Americans. Muslim Americans are just as likely to have graduated from college. They are just as likely to have an annual household income of above $100,000. They are self-employed or own their own businesses at the same rate as other Americans.

to this:

Quote:

fun fact - American muslims are better educated and in higher paid professions than the American average.

?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #79 - May 15^th, 2018 at 10:24pm

freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 10:21pm:

Gandalf, how do you get from this:

Quote:

The household income levels of American Muslims are about as evenly distributed as the general American population.

Quote:

When it comes to the traditional markers of the so-called American dream, the Pew survey showed that Muslim Americans were just as likely to achieve them as other Americans. Muslim Americans are just as likely to have graduated from college. They are just as likely to have an annual household income of above $100,000. They are self-employed or own their own businesses at the same rate as other Americans.

to this:

Quote:

fun fact - American muslims are better educated and in higher paid professions than the American average.

?

Inferior tintedness? Correlation not causation?

Sometimes a question is just a question.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA Reply #80 - May 16^th, 2018 at 9:35am freediver wrote on May 15^th, 2018 at 10:21pm: Gandalf, how do you get from this: I read the articles.
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freediver

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #81 - May 16^th, 2018 at 12:11pm

So in Islamic logic, "about as evenly distributed" and "just as likely to achieve" and "at the same rate" become "better educated and in higher paid professions"?

Could it be that you were misrepresenting the statistics Gandalf?

Or did you accidentally quote the bits that contradict you instead of the bits that support your claim?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #82 - May 16^th, 2018 at 12:23pm

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2018 at 12:11pm:

So in Islamic logic, "about as evenly distributed" and "just as likely to achieve" and "at the same rate" become "better educated and in higher paid professions"?

Could it be that you were misrepresenting the statistics Gandalf?

Or did you accidentally quote the bits that contradict you instead of the bits that support your claim?

FD, the old boy has taken to upholding truth in his campaign against the Muselman.

You?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #83 - May 16^th, 2018 at 3:24pm

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2018 at 12:11pm:

So in Islamic logic, "about as evenly distributed" and "just as likely to achieve" and "at the same rate" become "better educated and in higher paid professions"?

Could it be that you were misrepresenting the statistics Gandalf?

Or did you accidentally quote the bits that contradict you instead of the bits that support your claim?

Like I said FD, I read the actual articles - as in, in their entirety. Lets get the crayons out, might help...

Quote:

The household income levels of American Muslims are about as evenly distributed as the general American population.[107] Among South Asians in the country, the large Pakistani American community stands out as particularly well educated and prosperous, with education and income levels exceeding those of U.S.-born whites. Many are professionals, especially in medicine (they account for 2.7-5% of America’s physicians),[108][109] scientists, engineers, and financial analysts, and there are also a large number of entrepreneurs. There are more than 15,000 medical doctors practicing medicine in the USA who are of Pakistani origin alone[110] and the number of Pakistani American millionaires was reported to be in the thousands. Shahid Khan a Pakistani-born American multi billionaire businessmen owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars of the National Football League (NFL) making him the first and only ethnic minority member to own one, he also owns English Premier League team Fulham F.C., and automobile parts manufacturer Flex-N-Gate in Urbana, Illinois.[111] 45 percent of immigrant Muslims report annual household income levels of $50,000 or higher. This compares to the national average of 44 percent. Immigrant Muslims are well represented among higher-income earners, with 19 percent having annual household incomes of $100,000 or higher (compared to 16 percent for the Muslim population as a whole and 17 percent for the U.S. average). This is likely due to the strong concentration of Muslims in professional, managerial, and technical fields, especially in information technology, education, medicine, law, and the corporate world.[112]

Then I went and looked at the actual source of these claims - our friend PEW research:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-reli...

Do the maths FD - and we'll see that for income 0-50k is 51% of muslims, compared to 55% for All US Adults. At the other end of the scale, 50k - 100k+ is 49% of muslims compared to 45% of All US Adults.

What do you think FD, does that justify the claim that American muslims are " in higher paid professions than the American average"?

As for education, admittedly there is only support for muslim women - from the 2nd article:

Quote:

A 2009 Gallup survey found that Muslim American women were among the most educated in the country, second only to Jewish American women.

My understanding is that "second only to Jewish American women" - would put them above the overall average - agreed?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA Reply #84 - May 16^th, 2018 at 4:15pm Quote: Do the maths FD - and we'll see that for income 0-50k is 51% of muslims, compared to 55% for All US Adults. At the other end of the scale, 50k - 100k+ is 49% of muslims compared to 45% of All US Adults. Is this some special Islamic maths?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #85 - May 16^th, 2018 at 4:48pm

Muslims: 51% under 50k (34 + 17), 49% over 50k (29 + 20)
All US Adults: 55% under 50k (35 + 20), 45% over 50k (26 + 19)

IS there anything in particular about those sums you are having difficulty with FD? Happy to help.

Would you agree these stats justify the claim that American muslims are " in higher paid professions than the American average"?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA Reply #86 - May 16^th, 2018 at 5:41pm Quote: IS there anything in particular about those sums you are having difficulty with FD? Happy to help. They are different from the numbers you copied and pasted. In particular, the ones you highlighted.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #87 - May 16^th, 2018 at 8:54pm

Mattyfisk wrote on May 16^th, 2018 at 12:23pm:

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2018 at 12:11pm:

So in Islamic logic, "about as evenly distributed" and "just as likely to achieve" and "at the same rate" become "better educated and in higher paid professions"?

Could it be that you were misrepresenting the statistics Gandalf?

Or did you accidentally quote the bits that contradict you instead of the bits that support your claim?

FD, the old boy has taken to upholding truth in his campaign against the Muselman.

You?

Do you want to try for a straight answer tbis time?

What's the matter, cat got your tongue?

What sound does a jellyfish make?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA
Reply #88 - May 21^st, 2018 at 11:40am

freediver wrote on May 16^th, 2018 at 5:41pm:

Quote:

IS there anything in particular about those sums you are having difficulty with FD? Happy to help.

They are different from the numbers you copied and pasted. In particular, the ones you highlighted.

You're right FD - the PEW raw data actually presents an even better picture for muslims. Is that the point you were trying to make?

Do you agree the data supports the claim that American muslims are " in higher paid professions than the American average"? Or is it still slippery, tricky, taqiya "Islamic logic"?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47366 At my desk.	Re: Islam will increasingly become a threat to the USA Reply #89 - May 21^st, 2018 at 6:44pm Quote: Do you agree the data supports the claim that American muslims are " in higher paid professions than the American average"? No.
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