Australian Politics Forum - Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants May 1^st, 2018 at 9:00pm Gandalf would it be fair to say that you oppose any effort to prevent Islamofascists from immigrating to Australia because acknowledging the link between Islam and Islamofascism discriminates against Muslims?
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92295 Gender:	Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants Reply #1 - May 1^st, 2018 at 11:44pm FD, would it be fair to say you support a ban on the tinted races and their apologists from entering Australia? A simple yes or no will suffice, thanks.
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Yadda

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #2 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 10:42am

ARGUMENT;
"the link between Islam and Islamofascism"    in the religion of the moslem itself,
is indisputable and is easily proven [from both ancient and contemporary ISLAMIC sources].

gandalf,

If it can be shown, that a particular community of people [i.e. the moslem community] are taught [by the doctrines, the laws and the tenets of their faith] to hold and maintain a [concealed and hidden and denied]       burning hatred       for people who don't belong to their very particular community, aren't the members of their community practicing a very deceitful and evil kind of 'discrimination' ?

And, if members of that particular community of people are seen to persistently and frequently express their hatred for people who don't belong to their very particular community,
is       the guilt [for expressing that wicked 'discriminating' hatred]       to be borne by the [individual] hater,
or is       the guilt [for expressing that wicked 'discriminating' hatred]    to be borne by the whole community [the particular community which would foster and encourage such hatred] ?

i.e.
If the moslem community [by both embracing and fostering the doctrines, the laws and the tenets of their faith] have chosen to embrace and to foster a very wicked 'discriminating' hatred of all people who do not belong to their community,
then is it fair for those persons who are the target of such a wicked 'discriminating' hatred, to seek to censure the moslem community as a whole ?

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1509883266/40#40
Quote:

ISLAM's foundational religious texts, have plainly been interpreted by moslem scholars to indicate,
that those who have embraced ISLAM,
have embraced enmity, and hatred, and hostility and warfare and murder, towards those who reject ISLAM.

Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past.

They are not dead letters.

They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA

Google

Google;
we are pledging to wage war against all mankind, al-Tabari

.

THE VERY REAL AND 'HOLY' HATRED - BY MOSLEMS - OF THOSE WHO ARE NOT MOSLEMS

......IS A PRINCIPLE ARTICLE OF FAITH WITHIN ISLAM

Spokesmen for ISLAM will tell anyone who will listen;

THAT IT IS WRONG, AND THAT IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW, TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Here is a moslem in the UK explaining, who the innocent people are.

---------- >

Please watch this YT...
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

Quote:

YT

KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE

"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."

"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

.

Google,
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

.

ARGUMENT;
There is an identifiable group of people, who do, facilitate, enable, encourage and commit acts of terror,

as an endorsed cultural modality.

They are called moslems.

They are the followers, of ISLAM.

WAKE UP PEOPLE !

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« Last Edit: May 2^nd, 2018 at 10:48am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #3 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 2:21pm

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 9:00pm:

Gandalf would it be fair to say that you oppose any effort to prevent Islamofascists from immigrating to Australia because acknowledging the link between Islam and Islamofascism discriminates against Muslims?

No.

Would it be fair to say you support a religiously discriminatory immigration program?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #4 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 3:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 8:00pm:

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2018 at 6:23pm:

If a black man commits a racially motivated murder because he is black, putting him in jail for murder is not discriminating on the basis of race, and more than blocking fascist Muslims is discrimination on the basis of religion.

A complete strawman. No one is saying blocking muslims you know to be fascist is discrimination on the basis of religion. But your proposal of picking out muslims in the first place and giving them an Islam-specific test in order to weed out the Islamic fascists - certainly is discrimination on the basis of religion.

Or.. perhaps not - depending on what you've decided about whether or not Islam is an actual "religion".

Do you know any non-Muslim Islamofascists Gandalf?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #5 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 4:26pm

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 3:09pm:

Do you know any non-Muslim Islamofascists Gandalf?

no.

If your concern was screening out fascists, do you think it makes more sense for an efficient anti-fascist screening program to simply concentrate on screening out fascists, rather than worrying about what specific brand of fascists they are?

Can you conceive of a way to broaden your 'Islamofascist' quiz so that it might screen other fascists as well besides Islamic ones? Or do you think it makes more sense creating separate quiz's for every conceivable type of fascist?

Also, I'm not the one claiming your immigration screening proposal needn't be religiously discriminatory. You seem to keep forgetting that.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #6 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 4:29pm

Quote:

If your concern was screening out fascists, do you think it makes more sense for an efficient anti-fascist screening program to simply concentrate on screening out fascists, rather than

worrying about what specific brand of fascists they are?

Not sure there is a distinction in there Gandalf. I don't think it will improve "efficiency" by checking if black people are nazis or if Jews are islamofascists, or by pretending fascism can be treated as a generic, one size fits all ideology.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #7 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 4:50pm

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 4:29pm:

or by pretending fascism can be treated as a generic, one size fits all ideology.

Fascism is fascism FD. Surely there are a broad set of "fascistic" attributes that are common to all strands of fascism. Can you not conceive of how an "anti-fascist screening procedure" could be abstracted into a single test/questionnaire etc so as to encapsulate all those attributes, regardless of who the candidate is, and what particular type of fascist he/she might be? Rather than having to customise the test/questionnaire to cover every conceivable type of fascism?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #8 - May 2^nd, 2018 at 5:36pm

Quote:

Fascism is fascism FD. Surely there are a broad set of "fascistic" attributes that are common to all strands of fascism.

Maybe. Maybe not. I doubt reverting to generic questions will help.

Are you talking about efficiency still, or have you reverted back to putting the denial of the link between Islam and Islamofascism above all else, because acknowledging the link is discriminating?

Quote:

Can you not conceive of how an "anti-fascist screening procedure" could be abstracted into a single test/questionnaire etc so as to encapsulate all those attributes, regardless of who the candidate is, and what particular type of fascist he/she might be?

No. I don't think this can be done any better than condensing "good moral character" down into a multi choice exam.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #9 - May 3^rd, 2018 at 4:38pm

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 5:36pm:

have you reverted back to putting the denial of the link between Islam and Islamofascism above all else, because acknowledging the link is discriminating?

What denial? Can you quote me denying such a link FD? Or have you merely abstracted this strawman from my contention that Islamofascism is not the only form of fascism?

Oh look there's another strawman - "acknowledging the link is discriminating" - two in one sentence.

Acknowledging Islamofascists (which do exist) is not discrimination - I never said it was. Targeting muslims, or your terrible version of targeting people "who appear to be muslim" - who you have no idea whether they are fascist or not - and subjecting them to an islam-specific interrogation about their values, is undeniably discrimination on the basis of religion. Can you explain how its not?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #10 - May 3^rd, 2018 at 4:44pm

Quote:

Acknowledging Islamofascists (which do exist) is not discrimination - I never said it was. Targeting muslims, or your terrible version of targeting people "who appear to be muslim" - who you have no idea whether they are fascist or not - and subjecting them to an islam-specific interrogation about their values, is undeniably discrimination on the basis of religion. Can you explain how its not?

The link between Islam and Islamofascism is real. It only makes sense to ask Muslims about Islamofascism. It does not make sense to screen every potential immigrant for every flavour of fascism if you easily rule 90% of them out.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #11 - May 3^rd, 2018 at 7:36pm

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 4:44pm:

It only makes sense to ask Muslims about Islamofascism. It does not make sense to screen every potential immigrant for every flavour of fascism if you easily rule 90% of them out.

Its still discrimination. All you're doing is arguing why discrimination is a good idea - while simultaneously insisting that its not discrimination.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #12 - May 3^rd, 2018 at 8:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 4:44pm:

It only makes sense to ask Muslims about Islamofascism. It does not make sense to screen every potential immigrant for every flavour of fascism if you easily rule 90% of them out.

Its still discrimination. All you're doing is arguing why discrimination is a good idea - while simultaneously insisting that its not discrimination.

Islam discriminates. Why not then discriminate against Islam? Why do you demand a tratment that you wouldn't afford others? (Or is that too much of a kuffar christian principle, do onto others...?) If the West applied Islamic tenets to its muslim inhabitants you would be branded, paying extra tax and cowering - or exiled if not dead.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #13 - May 3^rd, 2018 at 11:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 7:36pm:

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 4:44pm:

It only makes sense to ask Muslims about Islamofascism. It does not make sense to screen every potential immigrant for every flavour of fascism if you easily rule 90% of them out.

Its still discrimination. All you're doing is arguing why discrimination is a good idea - while simultaneously insisting that its not discrimination.

Is is discrimination against people who are ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy Gandalf.

Why does that bother you so much? Do you want Islamofascists moving to Australia?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims support Islamofascist immigrants
Reply #14 - May 4^th, 2018 at 11:59am

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 11:10pm:

Is is discrimination against people who are ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy Gandalf.

How could it be when you are targeting people you could not possibly know whether or not they are ideologically opposed to freedom and democracy? You pick out people "who appear to be muslim" - thats your scheme, or had you forgotton?

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2018 at 11:10pm:

Why does that bother you so much? Do you want Islamofascists moving to Australia?

If people had a big neon sign printed on their forehead that said "I oppose freedom and democracy" - then I have no problem discriminating against them.

But thats not what you want - you want to discriminate on the basis of religion (pick out people "who appear to be muslim") first. That is in and of itself discrimination. Perhaps you are confused what discrimination actually is FD. If so, know that targeting a specific group for a targeted 'freedom and democracy' interrogation that is specific to the religious beliefs of that group *IS* discrimination - on the basis of religion. It could only not be discrimination if you subjected all candidates to the same interrogation, irrespective of their religion. Of course your points about why such a regime is illogical is well made - but it doesn't change the fact that its still discrimination. Its merely saying why discrimination is justified.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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