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Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders (Read 2750 times)

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #45 - Apr 19^th, 2018 at 9:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:17pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:05pm:

As I said - this whole issue is a beat-up and a nonsense from top to bottom.

Which is done for what reason, Graps? Could it be because it gains for the (troll) politician who creates this artificial outrage some political advantage? No! Don't say that! It cannot be true! We need to get tougher on these (legal) "illegal immigrants", don't we? Roll Eyes

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It feeds into the silly segment of society that is terrified of The Sallow Peril, thus ensuring that such semi-populist moves as chastening boat arrivals will yield a few votes.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #46 - Apr 19^th, 2018 at 9:54pm

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

From my observations in this forum, it seems to boil down to one essential thing: they don't actually understand what an asylum seeker (or indeed a refugee) actually is.

Not only do they have trouble distinguishing between an asylum seeker and a refugee, but they also mistakenly believe that a refugee must be a) poor, and b) fleeing a war zone.

Bottom line: it's ignorance (with a dash of racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry).

Then again, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry are all the result of ignorance.

So, education is the key.

Grin

Grin

Grin

So when are you getting some education, turd? Parroting the same old baseless bromides is not 'educated', it's obsessive-compulsive.

Lesson one: not everyone who pretends to be an asylum seeker IS an asylum seeker. Australia is not like Aladdin's cave where you just have to utter some magic words - asylum, please - and the country is opened up to you.

Lesson two: tinted Muslims are not, thereby, to be believed. They ARE capable of lying, deception and pretence.

Lesson three: we have twigged onto one and two even if you haven't. Get educated, turd.

I have indeed studied refugee issues at university level - and I can assure you that there are no illegal asylum applicants - there are only illegal immigrants. Everyone has the right to ask for asylum - the merit or otherwise of their claim is what is called the vetting process.

If an asylum applicant is deemed not to fit the criteria, that is the determination of the vetting process - not the application process, and has nothing to do with their mode of entry, and certainly under no situation does a simple process of vetting onshore equate to 'open borders'.

That is a phrase wrongfully thrown around by the opponents of those who actually know what an asylum seeker is, and who actually know what open borders are, as opposed to simple onshore vetting.

The joys of education.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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goldkam

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #47 - Apr 19^th, 2018 at 10:32pm

Valkie wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 7:00pm:

Love the way the apologists squirm, debate, lie, twist facts and generally distort anything and everything to try and put the reffos into a better light

But facts is facts
They don't want to work
And English don't seem to be an issue when they are going to centalink for disability welfare

Get rid of any who don't have a job in 6 months
Full stop

If only it were that easy. The simplicity of your answer highlights the simplicity of your studies into the issue. Many don't speak Australian, have few life skills, have no job skills, have extensive amounts of families to support and have come from a war torn country fighting for their lives.

Don't want to work.....few don't that is true but where may you be getting such false information from.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #48 - Apr 19^th, 2018 at 11:12pm

Be careful to differentiate between refugees and immigrants.

https://www.humanrights.gov.au/face-facts-asylum-seekers-and-refugees

"Seeking asylum in Australia is not illegal. In fact, it is a basic human right. All people are entitled to protection of their human rights, including the right to seek asylum, regardless of how or where they arrive in Australia. "

Not the neat side-step by the current government - the poor bastards on boats never arrived in Australia - they were hijacked on the High Seas in an act of piracy, which somehow 'justifies' that they cannot claim asylum here.

There are sailors extant who are suffering mental and other health issues on account of this.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Frank

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #49 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 7:09pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 9:54pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

From my observations in this forum, it seems to boil down to one essential thing: they don't actually understand what an asylum seeker (or indeed a refugee) actually is.

Not only do they have trouble distinguishing between an asylum seeker and a refugee, but they also mistakenly believe that a refugee must be a) poor, and b) fleeing a war zone.

Bottom line: it's ignorance (with a dash of racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry).

Then again, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry are all the result of ignorance.

So, education is the key.

Grin

Grin

Grin

So when are you getting some education, turd? Parroting the same old baseless bromides is not 'educated', it's obsessive-compulsive.

Lesson one: not everyone who pretends to be an asylum seeker IS an asylum seeker. Australia is not like Aladdin's cave where you just have to utter some magic words - asylum, please - and the country is opened up to you.

Lesson two: tinted Muslims are not, thereby, to be believed. They ARE capable of lying, deception and pretence.

Lesson three: we have twigged onto one and two even if you haven't. Get educated, turd.

I have indeed studied refugee issues at university level - and I can assure you that there are no illegal asylum applicants - there are only illegal immigrants. Everyone has the right to ask for asylum - the merit or otherwise of their claim is what is called the vetting process.

If an asylum applicant is deemed not to fit the criteria, that is the determination of the vetting process - not the application process, and has nothing to do with their mode of entry, and certainly under no situation does a simple process of vetting onshore equate to 'open borders'.

That is a phrase wrongfully thrown around by the opponents of those who actually know what an asylum seeker is, and who actually know what open borders are, as opposed to simple onshore vetting.

The joys of education.

You do not have to allow just anyone to enter your country on the off-chance that, having been admitted, they might claim asylum.

And so illegal entrants are detained and shipped off. There, on Manus and Nauru, they can claim asylum and they do so. They are asylum seekers. Their claims are heard. Australia declines to re-settle them. There is no obligation to re-settle asylum seekers of the world.

They wanted to check-mate the Australian government by entering illegally and then claiming asylum, knowing that even if their claim was refused, deportation would be difficult without valid passports or IDs.

That's the scam that was short circuited.
You do not have to let illegal entrants into your country. That was the point of excising Christmas island from the migration zone, that is the point of Manus and Nauru. They can claim asylum, no problem. They just cannot force a permanent re-settlement outcome on Australia. It's about settlement, not about claiming asylum.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #50 - Apr 20^th, 2018 at 11:27pm

Frank wrote on Apr 20^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

You do not have to allow just anyone to enter your country on the off-chance that, having been admitted, they might claim asylum.

And so illegal entrants are detained and shipped off. There, on Manus and Nauru, they can claim asylum and they do so. They are asylum seekers. Their claims are heard. Australia declines to re-settle them. There is no obligation to re-settle asylum seekers of the world.

They wanted to check-mate the Australian government by entering illegally and then claiming asylum, knowing that even if their claim was refused, deportation would be difficult without valid passports or IDs.

That's the scam that was short circuited.
You do not have to let illegal entrants into your country. That was the point of excising Christmas island from the migration zone, that is the point of Manus and Nauru. They can claim asylum, no problem. They just cannot force a permanent re-settlement outcome on Australia. It's about settlement, not about claiming asylum.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Amazing how you'll try and justify the unjustifiable. Such a unique interpretation of the UN Refugee Convention. Just amazing and so wrong.

In reality, you cannot be judged an illegal immigrant until after your application for Asylum has been adjudged to be not valid. Furthermore, there is no provision for such an application to be made anywhere other than on a nation's borders. The Australian Government has hummed and harrumphed about this for decades but it is still not illegal to apply for Asylum once you reach the borders of Australia. What is illegal under international law is shunting Asylum seekers off to third countries such as PNG or Naru.

The Australian Government (and you) has demonised innocent people who have sought Asylum from our country. They have played political football with their fates. Why? Because idiots like you are terrified of people arriving by boat. However, it ignores the thousands of actual Illegal Immigrants and Visa Overstayers.

In reality, what was required to stop the Asylum Seekers was to get help from Indonesia and stop interfering in the internal affairs of nations like Afghanistan and Iraq. Further, if they had chosen to help prospective Asylum Seekers rather than shutting down their immigration centres in the Refugee Camps in Iran, Kuwait and Jordan, and denying them ready access to Australian Government officials, then they wouldn't have been using people traffickers, now would they?

However, instead Australian political parties of all persuasions have played on your Islamophobic fears and used you for their own ends, Soren. You fear Muslims for some strange reason beyond which is reasonable. You refuse to listen to their entreaties and you consign them to the hells of Naru and Manus. Tsk, tsk, how bloody typical of you, hey? Anything to keep your prosperous life assured. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Gnads

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #51 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 8:11am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 3:37pm:

And even that 85% is true, it doesn't mean they are lazy or unwilling to work. You can't be employed if people don't offer you jobs.

You don't sit around waiting to get "offered" a job. Grin

Grin

Grin

It doesn't happen for any other demographic in the country why would it be applicable or be an excuse for so called refugee migrants not working after 5 years?

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #52 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 8:23am

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 4:13pm:

red baron wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 3:26pm:

So????

85% of so called refugees in Australia are not working after 5 years

*Source bureau of statistics

First things first: they are refugees - not so called refugees.

Secondly, almost half of those looking for work in the first year eventually leave Newstart payments after five years.

*Source: the Department of Social Services.

You're the one calling them refugees ........

I'd call most "country shopping migrants" using the refugee excuse.

IMHO if they come by plane & deliberately over stay they are illegal.

If they come by boat, throw away their ID to extend the vetting processes and claim asylum/refugee status they are still illegal.

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #53 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 8:28am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 7:05pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 12:35pm:

Quote:

STUNNING! 94% of Immigrants in US Federal Prisons, Over 35,000 Individuals, Are Criminal Illegal Aliens

94% of immigrants in US federal prisons — over 35,000 individuals — are criminal illegal aliens.

They’ve been arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, child sex assaults and drug trafficking.

You won’t hear that at any Democrat rally!

a vote for the Labor/Greens party is a vote for open Borders and that of the slaughter, rape, drug trafficking, and sexual assault of our children...

if you vote for this party YOU are complicate in the destruction of Australia.. Angry

Angry

Usual nonsense from Mechanic, the child pornographer.

US borders ARENT open and never have been. But they are long. Very long. You cannot secure them 100%. Australia cant even secure our borders 100% and we dont even HAVE borders.

criminal.

Got any proof?

You want to be careful with comments like that.

That's as bad as calling him a paedophile which is not supposed to be tolerated on this forum.

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #54 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 8:30am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 7:06pm:

Valkie wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 7:00pm:

Love the way the apologists squirm, debate, lie, twist facts and generally distort anything and everything to try and put the reffos into a better light

But facts is facts
They don't want to work
And English don't seem to be an issue when they are going to centalink for disability welfare

Get rid of any who don't have a job in 6 months
Full stop

except that isnt true. Migrants have a LOWER rate of unemployment than the rest of us.

And why would that be?

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #55 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 12:35pm

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

From my observations in this forum, it seems to boil down to one essential thing: they don't actually understand what an asylum seeker (or indeed a refugee) actually is.

Not only do they have trouble distinguishing between an asylum seeker and a refugee, but they also mistakenly believe that a refugee must be a) poor, and b) fleeing a war zone.

Bottom line: it's ignorance (with a dash of racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry).

Then again, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry are all the result of ignorance.

So, education is the key.

Grin

Grin

Grin

So when are you getting some education, turd? Parroting the same old baseless bromides is not 'educated', it's obsessive-compulsive.

Lesson one: not everyone who pretends to be an asylum seeker IS an asylum seeker. Australia is not like Aladdin's cave where you just have to utter some magic words - asylum, please - and the country is opened up to you.

Lesson two: tinted Muslims are not, thereby, to be believed. They ARE capable of lying, deception and pretence.

Lesson three: we have twigged onto one and two even if you haven't. Get educated, turd.

Time you listened to the news, Soren. Over 90% of all Asylum Seekers on Manus and Naru were judged to be "genuine refugees" by the Australian Immigration Department. Tsk, tsk, how inconsiderate of them to be genuine in their applications for Asylum. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #56 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 12:37pm

Gnads wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 8:23am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 4:13pm:

red baron wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 3:26pm:

So????

85% of so called refugees in Australia are not working after 5 years

*Source bureau of statistics

First things first: they are refugees - not so called refugees.

Secondly, almost half of those looking for work in the first year eventually leave Newstart payments after five years.

*Source: the Department of Social Services.

You're the one calling them refugees ........

I'd call most "country shopping migrants" using the refugee excuse.

IMHO if they come by plane & deliberately over stay they are illegal.

If they come by boat, throw away their ID to extend the vetting processes and claim asylum/refugee status they are still illegal.

No, they are not, according to the UN Convention on Refugees. They have no requirement to carry papers of any kind when applying for Asylum. Tsk, tsk, just how smacking ignorant are you, little Islamophobe? Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #57 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 6:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 12:35pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

From my observations in this forum, it seems to boil down to one essential thing: they don't actually understand what an asylum seeker (or indeed a refugee) actually is.

Not only do they have trouble distinguishing between an asylum seeker and a refugee, but they also mistakenly believe that a refugee must be a) poor, and b) fleeing a war zone.

Bottom line: it's ignorance (with a dash of racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry).

Then again, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry are all the result of ignorance.

So, education is the key.

Grin

Grin

Grin

So when are you getting some education, turd? Parroting the same old baseless bromides is not 'educated', it's obsessive-compulsive.

Lesson one: not everyone who pretends to be an asylum seeker IS an asylum seeker. Australia is not like Aladdin's cave where you just have to utter some magic words - asylum, please - and the country is opened up to you.

Lesson two: tinted Muslims are not, thereby, to be believed. They ARE capable of lying, deception and pretence.

Lesson three: we have twigged onto one and two even if you haven't. Get educated, turd.

Time you listened to the news, Soren. Over 90% of all Asylum Seekers on Manus and Naru were judged to be "genuine refugees" by the Australian Immigration Department. Tsk, tsk, how inconsiderate of them to be genuine in their applications for Asylum. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Well, let those who want them take them.

We are under absolutely no obligation to resettle every asylum seeker. Nobody is. Permanent settlement is not the same as being a reffo.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Gnads

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #58 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 7:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 12:37pm:

Gnads wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 8:23am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 4:13pm:

red baron wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 3:26pm:

So????

85% of so called refugees in Australia are not working after 5 years

*Source bureau of statistics

First things first: they are refugees - not so called refugees.

Secondly, almost half of those looking for work in the first year eventually leave Newstart payments after five years.

*Source: the Department of Social Services.

You're the one calling them refugees ........

I'd call most "country shopping migrants" using the refugee excuse.

IMHO if they come by plane & deliberately over stay they are illegal.

If they come by boat, throw away their ID to extend the vetting processes and claim asylum/refugee status they are still illegal.

No, they are not, according to the UN Convention on Refugees. They have no requirement to carry papers of any kind when applying for Asylum. Tsk, tsk, just how smacking ignorant are you, little Islamophobe? Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

How very typical of your responses ... & the UN is as big a load of crap as you & you & you weasel words.

Anglophobe.

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australia should not Follow the US on Open Borders
Reply #59 - Apr 21^st, 2018 at 9:16pm

Frank wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 6:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 21^st, 2018 at 12:35pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 8:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 19^th, 2018 at 6:16pm:

From my observations in this forum, it seems to boil down to one essential thing: they don't actually understand what an asylum seeker (or indeed a refugee) actually is.

Not only do they have trouble distinguishing between an asylum seeker and a refugee, but they also mistakenly believe that a refugee must be a) poor, and b) fleeing a war zone.

Bottom line: it's ignorance (with a dash of racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry).

Then again, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and bigotry are all the result of ignorance.

So, education is the key.

Grin

Grin

Grin

So when are you getting some education, turd? Parroting the same old baseless bromides is not 'educated', it's obsessive-compulsive.

Lesson one: not everyone who pretends to be an asylum seeker IS an asylum seeker. Australia is not like Aladdin's cave where you just have to utter some magic words - asylum, please - and the country is opened up to you.

Lesson two: tinted Muslims are not, thereby, to be believed. They ARE capable of lying, deception and pretence.

Lesson three: we have twigged onto one and two even if you haven't. Get educated, turd.

Time you listened to the news, Soren. Over 90% of all Asylum Seekers on Manus and Naru were judged to be "genuine refugees" by the Australian Immigration Department. Tsk, tsk, how inconsiderate of them to be genuine in their applications for Asylum. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Well, let those who want them take them.

We are under absolutely no obligation to resettle every asylum seeker. Nobody is. Permanent settlement is not the same as being a reffo.

New Zealand wants them but Australia has refused to allow them to go here, Soren. Appears some places are not as good as others to the Australian Government. In reality, under the UN Convention, Australia the country which they applied for Asylum to, was expected to take them - that is how the convention was intended to work. Countries do not get to pick and choose who they will accept or grant Asylum to. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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