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What would be enough (Read 6367 times)
Auggie
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #75 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:06pm
 
rhino wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:51am:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:34am:
rhino wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:27am:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 10:45am:


How naive you are to believe that they are better off now than before. Before, there was no institutional oppression against them or their way of life. They lived their lives with completely autonomy and independence.
Their method of population control was to kill new born babies. 8 year old girls married to 60 year old men. Life was so much better for them. What did the Romans ever do for us?


Do you have evidence to support your claims that 8 year girls married 60 year old men? Or are you viewing the lifestyle of the Indigenous peoples through your prejudiced lens of Islam?

Unlike most here I have lived amongst Islamic cultures, Im also on record as stating that i dont see the Islam religion as the main issue but the culture which uses it as a justification for their abhorrent cultural practises. If you did at least a little basic research about Aboriginal culture you will find I am exactly right. Anything else you want to be wrong about today? I really do not understand why some of you people make statements without obtaining at least a little knowledge on the subjects at hand first.


Allow to apologise for any negative assumptions made about you.

Even if that were the case, that doesn’t mean that we should expect indigenous peoples to adapt to our culture and way of life. It doesn’t mean that we should attribute  their failures to laziness or racial inferiority. It’s a hell of a lot more complex that than.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #76 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:13pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:15am:
With a disease riddled, unhealthy, violent lifestyle, often cold and hungry, and with a lifespan of around twenty-three, same as the pyramid builders.  That's why it is still part of their 'culture' to breed early and often..... they don't expect to make it to see their children grown in their DNA.

You're dreaming.   Now tell me how the tribes that had an annual migration from the high country to the ocean, where it was warmer in Winter, had a continuous occupation of the land?  they were itinerants with no fixed abode.. no claim to Mt Warning .. sorry.. most of the Aboriginals who live in that area had ancestors who came from other areas  - mass DNA testing should show who was who.


Yeah but you're forgetting one thing. If everyone lives the same as you do and you don't know any different lifestyle, then you're more likely to be satisfied. And then, as soon as someone comes along and imposes a completely alien system that you're not prepared for, do you think you're likely to succeed?

If I suddenly took over Sydney with goons, and imposed a Chinese-style society over Sydney residents: i.e. everyone has to speak Chinese; Han Chinese people get priority in jobs and housing, which involved kicking people out of their homes; and take children from their families and put them in Communist Party re-education centres; and I completely recognised society along those lines, do you think that you would succeed?? You would probably be thrown in poverty and out on your arse in a moment. That's what happened to the Indigenous peoples.


You'd have a point if we were talking about roughly equal societies in competition... in the case of Aboriginals we are not, since their society and 'culture' was considerably lower on the scale than that which transplanted them.

Other than that - taking your example of Chinee over-taking Oz - we are talking more an emotion or subjective state rather than a physical one, since the overall well-being (without oppressios etc) would be roughly equal and possibly in some ways better.

In the case of the Aboriginals - over the course of 200+ years - it has gotten considerably better... walkabout with spear has now become LandCruiserabout with firearm... while clad in warm clothes and with sleeping bags etc and some canned food etc...


The fact that they are from a pre-industrial culture makes even harder to adapt. You’re coming from a culture of no written language to a written one. Brains are wired differently. That’s one example. Not to mention an different social structure and organisation. Transformation of a society to a modern one requires certain conditions. The indigenous peoples didn’t meet those conditions.

Regarding the improvement of indigenous peoples, sure some have benefitted but overall I’d say that there are still challenges.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #77 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:15pm
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:15am:
With a disease riddled, unhealthy, violent lifestyle, often cold and hungry, and with a lifespan of around twenty-three, same as the pyramid builders.  That's why it is still part of their 'culture' to breed early and often..... they don't expect to make it to see their children grown in their DNA.

You're dreaming.   Now tell me how the tribes that had an annual migration from the high country to the ocean, where it was warmer in Winter, had a continuous occupation of the land?  they were itinerants with no fixed abode.. no claim to Mt Warning .. sorry.. most of the Aboriginals who live in that area had ancestors who came from other areas  - mass DNA testing should show who was who.


Yeah but you're forgetting one thing. If everyone lives the same as you do and you don't know any different lifestyle, then you're more likely to be satisfied. And then, as soon as someone comes along and imposes a completely alien system that you're not prepared for, do you think you're likely to succeed?

If I suddenly took over Sydney with goons, and imposed a Chinese-style society over Sydney residents: i.e. everyone has to speak Chinese; Han Chinese people get priority in jobs and housing, which involved kicking people out of their homes; and take children from their families and put them in Communist Party re-education centres; and I completely recognised society along those lines, do you think that you would succeed?? You would probably be thrown in poverty and out on your arse in a moment. That's what happened to the Indigenous peoples.


You'd have a point if we were talking about roughly equal societies in competition... in the case of Aboriginals we are not, since their society and 'culture' was considerably lower on the scale than that which transplanted them.

Other than that - taking your example of Chinee over-taking Oz - we are talking more an emotion or subjective state rather than a physical one, since the overall well-being (without oppressios etc) would be roughly equal and possibly in some ways better.

In the case of the Aboriginals - over the course of 200+ years - it has gotten considerably better... walkabout with spear has now become LandCruiserabout with firearm... while clad in warm clothes and with sleeping bags etc and some canned food etc...


I'd also like to ask people what would they see as an alternative?

The natural progression for something like this is for initially things to go bad for one culture then steadily improve throughout their transition period.

Eventually in time, the two cultures will be indistinguishable.






The first thing to do is to recognise that they’ve had it tough by our hand and we owe them our resources and effort to ameliorate their condition to the best of our ability.

As to how long it will take? Who knows? It could take 10 years or 10,000 years.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #78 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:17pm
 
It's easy. Take the resources that have been stolen by British Aboriginals in Australia and give it to Australian Aboriginals.

Throw in Freediver as a sweetener.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #79 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:19pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:17pm:
It's easy. Take the resources that have been stolen by British Aboriginals in Australia and give it to Australian Aboriginals.

Throw in Freediver as a sweetener.


So we have to give them some sticks?
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #80 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:21pm
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:19pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:17pm:
It's easy. Take the resources that have been stolen by British Aboriginals in Australia and give it to Australian Aboriginals.

Throw in Freediver as a sweetener.


So we have to give them some sticks?


Give till it hurts.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #81 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:22pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 10:45am:
Gnads wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 7:28am:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 7:42pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:33pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
The sad thing is that no matter what you give the silly bastards - they will still be no better off.

Giving them the keys to Ayers Rock and Mt Warning will do not one thing to change their real situation, and will only make them less acceptable to others in the nation.  I'd go so far as to say it will undo the rather haphazard upward movement in their acceptability to the majority created with 'the apology'.. Instead of accepting that and moving on - they - like every other small and selfish group - used it as a platform from which to launch more and more insanity upon the majority.

When 3% of the population can wag to dog of the rest - there is something wrong.

What they want is anything they can get for nothing.

What they need is to get into the 21st Century and realise they are now a small proportion of the Australian population and they need to get in line with the rest and earn their way.

What politicians and governments need to do is start saying NO, and forget about the screeching press and the ranting 'racist' nonsense.  It's Racist to isolate Ayers Rock and Mt Warning for the exclusive use of a few of a certain kind - it is not racist to want to enjoy those things like everyone else.  I doubt that any single one of us here ever abused a Black or deprived or robbed a Black of anything*... yet they expect us all to take responsibility for the actions of others and of governments and agencies past which we had nothing to do with, and they expect us to accept exclusion from interesting areas just to suit them.

Falc em!

* unlike the bullshit photos master light tried to push on me last night as if I had anything to do with Kaffirs in chains.... I never laid a hand on them Niqqers... and I'm not responsible for it happening.  Adios, light - you've lost me as well, along with your Niqqer mates and pals.


Spoken like a surreptitious, insidious bigot.

How would British Aboriginal Grappler born with a foot in his mouth know?

Stick to publishing your fantasies about being a war hero.


Go eat your arse.


Oh, Grap triggered.

Rule Number 1: NO PERSON IN AUSTRALIA HAS HAD IT WORSE THAN THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. FULL STOP.


The perpetual victim & guilt industry enabler.  Roll Eyes

They really didn't have an idyllic life pre-colonisation either.


How naive you are to believe that they are better off now than before. Before, there was no institutional oppression against them or their way of life. They lived their lives with completely autonomy and independence.


They oppressed each other ..... the different tribal groups & clan groups.

They still do it today.

You're so full of guilt & BS.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #82 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:26pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:15pm:
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:15am:
With a disease riddled, unhealthy, violent lifestyle, often cold and hungry, and with a lifespan of around twenty-three, same as the pyramid builders.  That's why it is still part of their 'culture' to breed early and often..... they don't expect to make it to see their children grown in their DNA.

You're dreaming.   Now tell me how the tribes that had an annual migration from the high country to the ocean, where it was warmer in Winter, had a continuous occupation of the land?  they were itinerants with no fixed abode.. no claim to Mt Warning .. sorry.. most of the Aboriginals who live in that area had ancestors who came from other areas  - mass DNA testing should show who was who.


Yeah but you're forgetting one thing. If everyone lives the same as you do and you don't know any different lifestyle, then you're more likely to be satisfied. And then, as soon as someone comes along and imposes a completely alien system that you're not prepared for, do you think you're likely to succeed?

If I suddenly took over Sydney with goons, and imposed a Chinese-style society over Sydney residents: i.e. everyone has to speak Chinese; Han Chinese people get priority in jobs and housing, which involved kicking people out of their homes; and take children from their families and put them in Communist Party re-education centres; and I completely recognised society along those lines, do you think that you would succeed?? You would probably be thrown in poverty and out on your arse in a moment. That's what happened to the Indigenous peoples.


You'd have a point if we were talking about roughly equal societies in competition... in the case of Aboriginals we are not, since their society and 'culture' was considerably lower on the scale than that which transplanted them.

Other than that - taking your example of Chinee over-taking Oz - we are talking more an emotion or subjective state rather than a physical one, since the overall well-being (without oppressios etc) would be roughly equal and possibly in some ways better.

In the case of the Aboriginals - over the course of 200+ years - it has gotten considerably better... walkabout with spear has now become LandCruiserabout with firearm... while clad in warm clothes and with sleeping bags etc and some canned food etc...


I'd also like to ask people what would they see as an alternative?

The natural progression for something like this is for initially things to go bad for one culture then steadily improve throughout their transition period.

Eventually in time, the two cultures will be indistinguishable.






The first thing to do is to recognise that they’ve had it tough by our hand and we owe them our resources and effort to ameliorate their condition to the best of our ability.

As to how long it will take? Who knows? It could take 10 years or 10,000 years.


I'd prefer to take the majority off drip feed and give the best and brightest a rolled gold first class education. I hate throwing good money after bad.

Govt funding for the top 100 private schools would be conditional on giving bright Aboriginal kids scholarships. Getting some more Aboriginal doctors, lawyers and business people out there would help bring them out of the funk they're in.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #83 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:31pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:22pm:
They oppressed each other ..... the different tribal groups & clan groups.

They still do it today.


Wowee! That's the same behavior as British Aboriginals on Saturdays at trains stations and stadiums.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #84 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:33pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:22pm:
They oppressed each other ..... the different tribal groups & clan groups.

They still do it today.

You're so full of guilt & BS.


Ok, Mr. Smartypants.

Explain how warring with each other in tribes make it easy for them to transition into an industrialized society??
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #85 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:34pm
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:15pm:
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:15am:
With a disease riddled, unhealthy, violent lifestyle, often cold and hungry, and with a lifespan of around twenty-three, same as the pyramid builders.  That's why it is still part of their 'culture' to breed early and often..... they don't expect to make it to see their children grown in their DNA.

You're dreaming.   Now tell me how the tribes that had an annual migration from the high country to the ocean, where it was warmer in Winter, had a continuous occupation of the land?  they were itinerants with no fixed abode.. no claim to Mt Warning .. sorry.. most of the Aboriginals who live in that area had ancestors who came from other areas  - mass DNA testing should show who was who.


Yeah but you're forgetting one thing. If everyone lives the same as you do and you don't know any different lifestyle, then you're more likely to be satisfied. And then, as soon as someone comes along and imposes a completely alien system that you're not prepared for, do you think you're likely to succeed?

If I suddenly took over Sydney with goons, and imposed a Chinese-style society over Sydney residents: i.e. everyone has to speak Chinese; Han Chinese people get priority in jobs and housing, which involved kicking people out of their homes; and take children from their families and put them in Communist Party re-education centres; and I completely recognised society along those lines, do you think that you would succeed?? You would probably be thrown in poverty and out on your arse in a moment. That's what happened to the Indigenous peoples.


You'd have a point if we were talking about roughly equal societies in competition... in the case of Aboriginals we are not, since their society and 'culture' was considerably lower on the scale than that which transplanted them.

Other than that - taking your example of Chinee over-taking Oz - we are talking more an emotion or subjective state rather than a physical one, since the overall well-being (without oppressios etc) would be roughly equal and possibly in some ways better.

In the case of the Aboriginals - over the course of 200+ years - it has gotten considerably better... walkabout with spear has now become LandCruiserabout with firearm... while clad in warm clothes and with sleeping bags etc and some canned food etc...


I'd also like to ask people what would they see as an alternative?

The natural progression for something like this is for initially things to go bad for one culture then steadily improve throughout their transition period.

Eventually in time, the two cultures will be indistinguishable.






The first thing to do is to recognise that they’ve had it tough by our hand and we owe them our resources and effort to ameliorate their condition to the best of our ability.

As to how long it will take? Who knows? It could take 10 years or 10,000 years.


I'd prefer to take the majority off drip feed and give the best and brightest a rolled gold first class education. I hate throwing good money after bad.

Govt funding for the top 100 private schools would be conditional on giving bright Aboriginal kids scholarships. Getting some more Aboriginal doctors, lawyers and business people out there would help bring them out of the funk they're in.


I don't disagree with these measures.

But, do you feel guilt for the actions of our predecessors? Because I do.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #86 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:38pm
 
Grin Grin Grin

Black Australians get 'free money'
like
Black Americans get 'free sex'.


...and they do so, entirely thanks to the 'Media'.


It's Politically Correct for USA 'White' women to have sex with a Black male before they 'earn' the right to have children, let alone 'white' ones.




Ohh the things you all do to pay/provide for stealing an entire 'continent' from Black people. Grin
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #87 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:44pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:34pm:
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:15pm:
Gordon wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 11:15am:
With a disease riddled, unhealthy, violent lifestyle, often cold and hungry, and with a lifespan of around twenty-three, same as the pyramid builders.  That's why it is still part of their 'culture' to breed early and often..... they don't expect to make it to see their children grown in their DNA.

You're dreaming.   Now tell me how the tribes that had an annual migration from the high country to the ocean, where it was warmer in Winter, had a continuous occupation of the land?  they were itinerants with no fixed abode.. no claim to Mt Warning .. sorry.. most of the Aboriginals who live in that area had ancestors who came from other areas  - mass DNA testing should show who was who.


Yeah but you're forgetting one thing. If everyone lives the same as you do and you don't know any different lifestyle, then you're more likely to be satisfied. And then, as soon as someone comes along and imposes a completely alien system that you're not prepared for, do you think you're likely to succeed?

If I suddenly took over Sydney with goons, and imposed a Chinese-style society over Sydney residents: i.e. everyone has to speak Chinese; Han Chinese people get priority in jobs and housing, which involved kicking people out of their homes; and take children from their families and put them in Communist Party re-education centres; and I completely recognised society along those lines, do you think that you would succeed?? You would probably be thrown in poverty and out on your arse in a moment. That's what happened to the Indigenous peoples.


You'd have a point if we were talking about roughly equal societies in competition... in the case of Aboriginals we are not, since their society and 'culture' was considerably lower on the scale than that which transplanted them.

Other than that - taking your example of Chinee over-taking Oz - we are talking more an emotion or subjective state rather than a physical one, since the overall well-being (without oppressios etc) would be roughly equal and possibly in some ways better.

In the case of the Aboriginals - over the course of 200+ years - it has gotten considerably better... walkabout with spear has now become LandCruiserabout with firearm... while clad in warm clothes and with sleeping bags etc and some canned food etc...


I'd also like to ask people what would they see as an alternative?

The natural progression for something like this is for initially things to go bad for one culture then steadily improve throughout their transition period.

Eventually in time, the two cultures will be indistinguishable.






The first thing to do is to recognise that they’ve had it tough by our hand and we owe them our resources and effort to ameliorate their condition to the best of our ability.

As to how long it will take? Who knows? It could take 10 years or 10,000 years.


I'd prefer to take the majority off drip feed and give the best and brightest a rolled gold first class education. I hate throwing good money after bad.

Govt funding for the top 100 private schools would be conditional on giving bright Aboriginal kids scholarships. Getting some more Aboriginal doctors, lawyers and business people out there would help bring them out of the funk they're in.


I don't disagree with these measures.

But, do you feel guilt for the actions of our predecessors? Because I do.


No. Tribes of apes have been marauding across the planet for a million years. Aboriginals managed to stay tucked away in a quiet corner of the world for a very long time and it was going to end eventually.

Australia was discovered by the best civilisation of the day and the one that evolved into the freest and best democracy.

They should be thankful they weren't discovered by Arab slavers or any number of civilizations who may have perpetrated a true genocide and wiped them out to the last person.

I acknowledge their hardships past and present, but guilt should only be felt by people who have done something wrong.
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #88 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:45pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:17pm:
It's easy. Take the resources that have been stolen by British Aboriginals in Australia and give it to Australian Aboriginals.

Throw in Freediver as a sweetener.


They didn't mine resources.

They dug a bit of ochre.

Any mining on Aboriginal land pays royalties.

How else would Galarrwuy Yunupingu have been driving around in a 40ft flybridge cruiser(which he sank)?


Quote:
Mr Yunupingu and other clan leaders spent three years negotiating the $700 million, 42-year deal with the mining giant, which operates a bauxite mine and alumina refinery on Yolngu land, 650km east of Darwin.


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/now-dreams-realised-healing-ca...

And that's only one group.

Who else gets paid those sorts of royalties? Roll Eyes
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Re: What would be enough
Reply #89 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:48pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:33pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 1:22pm:
They oppressed each other ..... the different tribal groups & clan groups.

They still do it today.

You're so full of guilt & BS.


Ok, Mr. Smartypants.

Explain how warring with each other in tribes make it easy for them to transition into an industrialized society??


They've had 232 years to give it a crack.  Roll Eyes
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