Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire (Read 3091 times)
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Apr 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm
 
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #1 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm
 
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
miketrees
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5846
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #2 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:45pm
 


India would be an even worse place now if not for the Poms
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #3 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:47pm
 
miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
India would be an even worse place now if not for the Poms


Really?  Got any proof?  A link?  Or is that just your somehow informed opinion?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8822
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #4 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:55pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


What a load of cobblers.
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8822
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #5 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:47pm:
miketrees wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
India would be an even worse place now if not for the Poms


Really?  Got any proof?  A link?  Or is that just your somehow informed opinion?


Where's your link?
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5395
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #6 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:56pm
 
There is a lot of truth in this statement, but it is a sweeping generalisation that ignores the French Revolution and the US war of independence. And don't forget that freedom in the British Empire was not something Imperialists were all that happy with.
Back to top
 

The West is not the intentional enemy of Islam, but it should be.
 
IP Logged
 
Gordon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20038
Gordon
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #7 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:00pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


Did England steal all of India's toilets?

Yuck

Back to top
 

Wokka Wokka Wokka
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #8 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:15pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:55pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


What a load of cobblers.


Really?  How much of India's wealth is sitting in the palaces of the Windsor's?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Gordon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20038
Gordon
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #9 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:17pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:55pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


What a load of cobblers.


Really?  How much of India's wealth is sitting in the palaces of the Windsor's?


The royal throne?
Back to top
 

images__3__003.jpg (13 KB | 3 )
images__3__003.jpg

Wokka Wokka Wokka
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8822
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #10 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:20pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:55pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


What a load of cobblers.


Really?  How much of India's wealth is sitting in the palaces of the Windsor's?


Cobblers again .... how about the Adani Bros over here wanting to start a project of the largest coal mine in the Sthn hemisphere .....

at taxpayers expense .....India has no riches because the Poms took it all ...

absolute bunkum.
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #11 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:34pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:20pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
Gnads wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:55pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


What a load of cobblers.


Really?  How much of India's wealth is sitting in the palaces of the Windsor's?


Cobblers again .... how about the Adani Bros over here wanting to start a project of the largest coal mine in the Sthn hemisphere .....

at taxpayers expense .....India has no riches because the Poms took it all ...

absolute bunkum.


Do a simple Google Gonads. As for Adani....you and I need that to go ahead....more so you, than me.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #12 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 6:36pm
 
The French are largely responsible for the liberal democracies of mainland Europe, and probably deserve some credit for the UK and USA.

India is a democracy thanks to British influence. People tend to take freedom and democracy for granted, but without the influence of France and the UK, the world would be largely absent of them. For almost all of the history of human civilisation, all nations were some kind of dictatorship. It's surprising how people can see this revolution unfolding before them and not even recognise it for what it is, like they feel guilty for being on the receiving end of its benefits.

Quote:
How much of India's wealth is sitting in the palaces of the Windsor's?


Bugger all Aussie. You can't live in an antique vase.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 17378
A cat with a view
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #13 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 7:07pm
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:55pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?



What a load of cobblers.





I thought that [traditionally] many Indians were in the textile and clothing trade ?


Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Freediver's other forum:ozpolitic.com/
polanimal

Posts: 7361
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #14 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:55pm
 
There was no nation-state called "India" before the British ...
Back to top
 

A cabbie wrote: "Readers simply need to know that Darwin/Monk's/HBS Guy's Forum is a poor copy ...  of the real and historic Political Animal." ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263352013/45
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #15 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:58pm
 
AiA wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:55pm:
There was no nation-state called "India" before the British ...


Astounding revelation.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Freediver's other forum:ozpolitic.com/
polanimal

Posts: 7361
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #16 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:00pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:58pm:
AiA wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:55pm:
There was no nation-state called "India" before the British ...


Astounding revelation.


Your previous statements regarding India indicate you believe there was an "India" prior to the British ...
Back to top
 

A cabbie wrote: "Readers simply need to know that Darwin/Monk's/HBS Guy's Forum is a poor copy ...  of the real and historic Political Animal." ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263352013/45
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #17 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:01pm
 
Aussie, prior to the arrival of the British, for how much of India's history did they have a functioning democracy?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gordon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20038
Gordon
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #18 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:04pm
 
You'd image india women would be somewhat grateful for English law unless they love being burned alive.

Back to top
 

Wokka Wokka Wokka
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #19 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Aussie, prior to the arrival of the British, for how much of India's history did they have a functioning democracy?


None, to my knowledge.  It seems they were happy little vegemites doing what happy little Indian vegemites did way back then including pissing Alexander off back from whence he came.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #20 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:10pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Aussie, prior to the arrival of the British, for how much of India's history did they have a functioning democracy?


None, to my knowledge.  It seems they were happy little vegemites doing what happy little Indian vegemites did way back then including pissing Alexander off back from whence he came.


No need to get all racist Aussie. Are you saying vegemite people enjoy living living under dictatorship?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8357
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #21 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:12pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Aussie, prior to the arrival of the British, for how much of India's history did they have a functioning democracy?


None, to my knowledge.  It seems they were happy little vegemites doing what happy little Indian vegemites did way back then including pissing Alexander off back from whence he came.

Oh, to have a happy little caste system once again, burning wives, living in happy little feudal times. The British dragged them into modernity and they, like the abos, will never forgive them.

But if you wanted to LEAVE  them in their happy little backward state, they would scream blue murder, racism, discrimination.

With the backward races, no good deed will ever go unresented.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #22 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:10pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Aussie, prior to the arrival of the British, for how much of India's history did they have a functioning democracy?


None, to my knowledge.  It seems they were happy little vegemites doing what happy little Indian vegemites did way back then including pissing Alexander off back from whence he came.


No need to get all racist Aussie. Are you saying vegemite people enjoy living living under dictatorship?


They obviously did until the Brits stuffed it up.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #23 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:22pm
 
But... but... but ... but.. Aussie!  You wouldn't be here without the Brits taking over India....  having viewed the alternatives, you arrived at the sound decision that you would be better off here in a British founded mostly White nation - albeit one plagued by 3% Niqqers who demand ownership and rent from everyone else.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Gordon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20038
Gordon
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #24 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:25pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
But... but... but ... but.. Aussie!  You wouldn't be here without the Brits taking over India....  having viewed the alternatives, you arrived at the sound decision that you would be better off here in a British founded mostly White nation - albeit one plagued by 3% Niqqers who demand ownership and rent from everyone else.


He'd be in Harris Park.
Back to top
 

Wokka Wokka Wokka
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Freediver's other forum:ozpolitic.com/
polanimal

Posts: 7361
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #25 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:48pm
 
Had the British never ruled over "India" other European powers certainly would have had a stronger foothold on the subcontinent ... and today "India" would be a mix of various nation-states much like Europe is ...
Back to top
 

A cabbie wrote: "Readers simply need to know that Darwin/Monk's/HBS Guy's Forum is a poor copy ...  of the real and historic Political Animal." ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263352013/45
WWW  
IP Logged
 
it_is_the_light
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Christ Light

Posts: 28704
The Pyramid of LIGHT
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #26 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:54pm
 
Back to top
 

ॐ all are one so be at peace,in LOVE and LIGHT.... namasté ▲ - : ) ~ ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯
it_is_the_light it_is_the_light Christ+Light Christ+Light  
IP Logged
 
it_is_the_light
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Christ Light

Posts: 28704
The Pyramid of LIGHT
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #27 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:57pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm:


...
Back to top
 

ॐ all are one so be at peace,in LOVE and LIGHT.... namasté ▲ - : ) ~ ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯
it_is_the_light it_is_the_light Christ+Light Christ+Light  
IP Logged
 
Rhino
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8693
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #28 - Apr 11th, 2018 at 11:01pm
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:04pm:
You'd image india women would be somewhat grateful for English law unless they love being burned alive.

yuck
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #29 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 12:35am
 
Gordon wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
But... but... but ... but.. Aussie!  You wouldn't be here without the Brits taking over India....  having viewed the alternatives, you arrived at the sound decision that you would be better off here in a British founded mostly White nation - albeit one plagued by 3% Niqqers who demand ownership and rent from everyone else.


He'd be in Harris Park.


Or Callan Park.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #30 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 12:38am
 
it_is_the_light wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:57pm:


Ancient history - move on.  We don't do corporate punishment here - for those who don't know what that means, we don't punish an entire group for the sins of a few.... only those few are punished, so it's time for the Niqqers to stop their war against Whitey - lest it come back to bite them in the arse.

Gee - if they did that, they might have a few less in prison...... just for a start... make room for a few more Mussos.....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5395
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #31 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:46am
 

Quote:
Ancient history - move on.  We don't do corporate punishment here - for those who don't know what that means, we don't punish an entire group for the sins of a few.... only those few are punished, so it's time for the Niqqers to stop their war against Whitey - lest it come back to bite them in the arse.

Gee - if they did that, they might have a few less in prison...... just for a start... make room for a few more Mussos.....


Its not "their" war on whitie. Its those neurotic new-age whities, and their distorted moralising, which makes war on themselves. Most of these Leftist do-gooders think African slavery began and ended the Americas. Such revisionist history never takes into account that the Muzlims carried on African slavery long before and long after, emancipation in the Americas.

And so these candle sniffing new age leftists wring their hands and wail about their inherited guilt.

Not this little black duck. (And if you are so unfamiliar with history, its a shooting gallery metaphor)


Back to top
 

The West is not the intentional enemy of Islam, but it should be.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #32 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:54am
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:10pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Aussie, prior to the arrival of the British, for how much of India's history did they have a functioning democracy?


None, to my knowledge.  It seems they were happy little vegemites doing what happy little Indian vegemites did way back then including pissing Alexander off back from whence he came.


No need to get all racist Aussie. Are you saying vegemite people enjoy living living under dictatorship?


They obviously did until the Brits stuffed it up.


How do you know this Aussie? Do you think people actually chose to live under dictatorship for most of our history?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8822
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #33 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:57am
 
it_is_the_light wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:54pm:


A link to an Afro- American specific publication.

A publication that portrays Winnie Mandela as a hero instead of the murdering(her own people) corrupt, terror supporting person she was.

Credibility zero.
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8822
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #34 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:59am
 
issuevoter wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:46am:
Quote:
Ancient history - move on.  We don't do corporate punishment here - for those who don't know what that means, we don't punish an entire group for the sins of a few.... only those few are punished, so it's time for the Niqqers to stop their war against Whitey - lest it come back to bite them in the arse.

Gee - if they did that, they might have a few less in prison...... just for a start... make room for a few more Mussos.....


Its not "their" war on whitie. Its those neurotic new-age whities, and their distorted moralising, which makes war on themselves. Most of these Leftist do-gooders think African slavery began and ended the Americas. Such revisionist history never takes into account that the Muzlims carried on African slavery long before and long after, emancipation in the Americas.

And so these candle sniffing new age leftists wring their hands and wail about their inherited guilt.

Not this little black duck. (And if you are so unfamiliar with history, its a shooting gallery metaphor)




Smiley Smiley
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #35 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 9:45am
 
issuevoter wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:46am:
Quote:
Ancient history - move on.  We don't do corporate punishment here - for those who don't know what that means, we don't punish an entire group for the sins of a few.... only those few are punished, so it's time for the Niqqers to stop their war against Whitey - lest it come back to bite them in the arse.

Gee - if they did that, they might have a few less in prison...... just for a start... make room for a few more Mussos.....


Its not "their" war on whitie. Its those neurotic new-age whities, and their distorted moralising, which makes war on themselves. Most of these Leftist do-gooders think African slavery began and ended the Americas. Such revisionist history never takes into account that the Muzlims carried on African slavery long before and long after, emancipation in the Americas.

And so these candle sniffing new age leftists wring their hands and wail about their inherited guilt.

Not this little black duck. (And if you are so unfamiliar with history, its a shooting gallery metaphor)





Cet petit canard noir?  Unfamiliar with 'history'?  No relevance whatsoever - I merely point out that Kangaroo Kaffirs at 3% of the population should beware that they get not what they wish for, and I've pointed out that a paltry 100 turned out to be 'radical' at CommGames Inc, but thousands stayed home and watched.  Jeez - some even competed.....

If the candle sniffers are the cause of the war - some Kaffirs are climbing on board when they can smell dollars in it.... and that's what it's all about pure and simple.

At the moment they are like the 'feminists' (another selfish, self-centred, grasping group), playing the equivalent of the Pussy Card to carry on like loonies at full moon and receiving no just reward for violent and threatening and damaging actions and demands.  That will pass one day and a government of the people will rise and tell them what their place is - the same as everyone else's - earn it or lose it, and the nation can no longer afford you since the government is running a lean and mean ship on its (gasps) CORE duties instead of playing kindergarten teacher handing out lollies.

I'll be quite content to watch some KKs playing NRL tonight and applauding good performance - don't confuse me with the candle sniffers... if there are seven circles of hell to go through in this lifetime or multiple lifetimes (as some would suggest is the case), I've seen five or six... and still ride the crest of the wave in terms of humanity, decency, and thought, and I call a spade a spade ... multiple circles of hell reduce a person to their true being....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #36 - Apr 12th, 2018 at 9:50am
 
Gnads wrote on Apr 12th, 2018 at 8:57am:
it_is_the_light wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 10:54pm:


A link to an Afro- American specific publication.

A publication that portrays Winnie Mandela as a hero instead of the murdering(her own people) corrupt, terror supporting person she was.

Credibility zero.


Of course, to the 'black activists' etc, like Winnie Mandela, everything is fair game in their pursuit of 'justice' for their people for 'past crimes' etc - even if it means killing their own people in cruel ways to deliver them from evil and bring the greatest number into the light.

Crazy as an Arab uprising.... and zero relevance to Australia.  Does this mean that
blackvictimhood.com.au
are going to run around 'necklacing' people who don't support their 'cause'?
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #37 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


No one is saying that the British Empire was perfect. What this video is arguing and what other people have argued is that, overall on balance, the British Empire was a force for good.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #38 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:34pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


No one is saying that the British Empire was perfect. What this video is arguing and what other people have argued is that, overall on balance, the British Empire was a force for good.


That is not what the video argued at all.  The video presents a position of flawless virtue, and fails to refer to any of the darker sides of British activity.  And not give me the bullshit story that the Brits went all over the World to bring liberty and freedom.  Their intent was to exploit and trade like the East India Company et al.  Don't tell me the Brits went to, for example, Tasmania to bring sweetness and light to the locals whom they largely exterminated.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #39 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:40pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:34pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


No one is saying that the British Empire was perfect. What this video is arguing and what other people have argued is that, overall on balance, the British Empire was a force for good.


That is not what the video argued at all.  The video presents a position of flawless virtue, and fails to refer to any of the darker sides of British activity.  And not give me the bullshit story that the Brits went all over the World to bring liberty and freedom.  Their intent was to exploit and trade like the East India Company et al.  Don't tell me the Brits went to, for example, Tasmania to bring sweetness and light to the locals whom they largely exterminated.


The video might not have explicitly stated that, but I don't believe that the historian in question would argue that it was perfect.

Wherever the British established a colony they spread the idea of freedom. Indians were considered British subjects and could travel anywhere throughout the Empire. In fact, when Gandhi was in South Africa and was required to show an ID card because of his race, he said: "I'm a British subject, and I have rights".

In fact, when Australia introduced the White Australia Policy, Britain vehemently opposed it, because that meant that British subjects in Indian and other  non-white colonies were prevented from travelling to British soil (Australia).

Their treatment of the indigenous peoples and the Indians was brutal and evil (in the case of the latter less so), and I don't defend those actions. Indigenous peoples everywhere have suffered at the hands of European colonial powers, so the British were no worse than any other.

If you look at India, after their independence, why did they adopt the British system of government?? They could've easily adopted an American system; they had more reason to abandon the Westminster system than the Americans did; but they didn't. They still retained the British institutions. Why? Because many of them recognize that the British did bring positive change to the continent. What they wanted was self-governance as an equal member under the British Empire.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:54pm by John Mothra Smith »  

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #40 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:09pm
 
Quote:
In fact, when Australia introduced the White Australia Policy, Britain vehemently opposed it, because that meant that British subjects in Indian and other  non-white colonies were prevented from travelling to British soil (Australia).


I ran that through Google.  Could not find anything.  Got a link?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #41 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:27pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:34pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


No one is saying that the British Empire was perfect. What this video is arguing and what other people have argued is that, overall on balance, the British Empire was a force for good.


That is not what the video argued at all.  The video presents a position of flawless virtue, and fails to refer to any of the darker sides of British activity.  And not give me the bullshit story that the Brits went all over the World to bring liberty and freedom.  Their intent was to exploit and trade like the East India Company et al.  Don't tell me the Brits went to, for example, Tasmania to bring sweetness and light to the locals whom they largely exterminated.


The East India Company may have been a Brit company but I'm sure anyone could have shares. The EIC shows what corporations are capable of unchecked, private armies, private war, overseeing famine to justify profits. The Brit gov intervened after the Sepoy Uprising and took over control from the EIC. The EIC was not the British Empire, it was a private corporation. India was governed far better after 1858 and given it's independence 90 years later under the rule of the crown.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #42 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:45pm
 
No.....it had Crown approval/endorsement and virtually ran India in every sense, including militarily, with substantial Westminster political backing until schit hit fan.

Link.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #43 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:48pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
No.....it had Crown approval/endorsement and virtually ran India in every sense, including militarily, with substantial Westminster political backing until schit hit fan.

Link.


It was not a govt institution. Having the crown's approval does not remove it's private ownership.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #44 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:54pm
 
Setanta wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:48pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
No.....it had Crown approval/endorsement and virtually ran India in every sense, including militarily, with substantial Westminster political backing until schit hit fan.

Link.


It was not a govt institution. Having the crown's approval does not remove it's private ownership.


It was Government hiding to have some dirty work done.  It was established under special Crown Charter. When its conduct became politically embarrassing, Westminster destroyed the monster it created.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #45 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:01pm
 
Setanta wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:48pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
No.....it had Crown approval/endorsement and virtually ran India in every sense, including militarily, with substantial Westminster political backing until schit hit fan.

Link.


It was not a govt institution. Having the crown's approval does not remove it's private ownership.


It was a private company "incorporated" by royal charter, just as today corporations are given charter by laws of the government of states they begin it.. The private company was given "body" by royal charter.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #46 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:06pm
 
Setanta wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Setanta wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:48pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
No.....it had Crown approval/endorsement and virtually ran India in every sense, including militarily, with substantial Westminster political backing until schit hit fan.

Link.


It was not a govt institution. Having the crown's approval does not remove it's private ownership.


It was a private company "incorporated" by royal charter, just as today corporations are given charter by laws of the government of states they begin it.. The private company was given "body" by royal charter.


Yes....to do its bidding in India.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #47 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:15pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:06pm:
Setanta wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Setanta wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:48pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
No.....it had Crown approval/endorsement and virtually ran India in every sense, including militarily, with substantial Westminster political backing until schit hit fan.

Link.


It was not a govt institution. Having the crown's approval does not remove it's private ownership.


It was a private company "incorporated" by royal charter, just as today corporations are given charter by laws of the government of states they begin it.. The private company was given "body" by royal charter.


Yes....to do its bidding in India.


To trade. I'm not saying the Brit govt or crown were blameless but it was letting a private entity do as it was supposed to do, it was the private merchants that started it and ran it. The Brit govt was also the one that stopped it and took over when they saw it was turning to shyte.

I do blame the Brits for their silly carving up what was India under their control into India , East and West Pakistan.

Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #48 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:09pm:
Quote:
In fact, when Australia introduced the White Australia Policy, Britain vehemently opposed it, because that meant that British subjects in Indian and other  non-white colonies were prevented from travelling to British soil (Australia).


I ran that through Google.  Could not find anything.  Got a link?


Read the Wikipedia article on the White Australia policy.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #49 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:47pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:09pm:
Quote:
In fact, when Australia introduced the White Australia Policy, Britain vehemently opposed it, because that meant that British subjects in Indian and other  non-white colonies were prevented from travelling to British soil (Australia).


I ran that through Google.  Could not find anything.  Got a link?


Read the Wikipedia article on the White Australia policy.


This is all I found there:

Quote:
The first Parliament of Australia quickly moved to restrict immigration to maintain Australia's British character, and the Pacific Island Labourers Bill and the Immigration Restriction Bill were passed shortly before parliament rose for its first Christmas recess. The Colonial Secretary in Britain had however made it clear that a race-based immigration policy would run "contrary to the general conceptions of equality which have ever been the guiding principle of British rule throughout the Empire". The Barton Government therefore conceived of the "language dictation test", which would allow the government, at the discretion of the minister, to block unwanted migrants by forcing them to sit a test in "any European language". Race had already been established as a premise for exclusion among the colonial parliaments, so the main question for debate was who exactly the new Commonwealth ought to exclude, with the Labor Party rejecting Britain's calls to placate the populations of its non-white colonies and allow "aboriginal natives of Asia, Africa, or the islands thereof". There was opposition from Queensland and its sugar industry to the proposals of the Pacific Islanders Bill to exclude "Kanaka" laborers, however Barton argued that the practice was "veiled slavery" that could lead to a "negro problem" similar to that in the United States, and the Bill was passed.[12]


I'd hardly call that 'vehement opposition.'  Further, it was useless opposition and the WAP existed.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #50 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:26am
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:34pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 11th, 2018 at 5:04pm:
Or if for example you are India, you have had all your valuables stolen from you.....by the British, yes?


No one is saying that the British Empire was perfect. What this video is arguing and what other people have argued is that, overall on balance, the British Empire was a force for good.


That is not what the video argued at all.  The video presents a position of flawless virtue, and fails to refer to any of the darker sides of British activity.  And not give me the bullshit story that the Brits went all over the World to bring liberty and freedom.  Their intent was to exploit and trade like the East India Company et al.  Don't tell me the Brits went to, for example, Tasmania to bring sweetness and light to the locals whom they largely exterminated.


Does it actually say that, or is this just your imagination?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #51 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am
 
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #52 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #53 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #54 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:41am
 
I haven't watched it Aussie. What do you have a problem with?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #55 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:48am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:41am:
I haven't watched it Aussie. What do you have a problem with?


I am not going to watch it again.  If you could be arsed and watched it, you'd see for yourself.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #56 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:00am
 
I doubt I would have any idea what your problem is.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #57 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:07pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:47pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 5:09pm:
Quote:
In fact, when Australia introduced the White Australia Policy, Britain vehemently opposed it, because that meant that British subjects in Indian and other  non-white colonies were prevented from travelling to British soil (Australia).


I ran that through Google.  Could not find anything.  Got a link?


Read the Wikipedia article on the White Australia policy.


This is all I found there:

Quote:
The first Parliament of Australia quickly moved to restrict immigration to maintain Australia's British character, and the Pacific Island Labourers Bill and the Immigration Restriction Bill were passed shortly before parliament rose for its first Christmas recess. The Colonial Secretary in Britain had however made it clear that a race-based immigration policy would run "contrary to the general conceptions of equality which have ever been the guiding principle of British rule throughout the Empire". The Barton Government therefore conceived of the "language dictation test", which would allow the government, at the discretion of the minister, to block unwanted migrants by forcing them to sit a test in "any European language". Race had already been established as a premise for exclusion among the colonial parliaments, so the main question for debate was who exactly the new Commonwealth ought to exclude, with the Labor Party rejecting Britain's calls to placate the populations of its non-white colonies and allow "aboriginal natives of Asia, Africa, or the islands thereof". There was opposition from Queensland and its sugar industry to the proposals of the Pacific Islanders Bill to exclude "Kanaka" laborers, however Barton argued that the practice was "veiled slavery" that could lead to a "negro problem" similar to that in the United States, and the Bill was passed.[12]


I'd hardly call that 'vehement opposition.'  Further, it was useless opposition and the WAP existed.


My mistake. The white Australia policy ran contrary to general conception of equality that had been the principle of the British empire.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #58 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #59 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #60 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #61 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India UK, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


There is an error in that.  No, I meant they fled to the UK....like TIB's Old Man did with his Wife and many kids in tow.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #62 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm
 
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #63 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #64 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #65 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


I'm talking about having liberty, not about having liberty written down. Not the same thing Aussie.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #66 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:19pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #67 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:23pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


Aussie, the reason why we don’t have a US style bill of rights is because it is not the British tradition. Our rights are inalienable and don’t need to be enshrined in any constitution. They are protected by the principle of ‘parliamentary soverienty’ (look it up).

If you compare the American experience of protecting civil rights with the British experience, you’ll find that the latter has had a much better track record than the former, despite the former having a constitution and a Supreme Court to arbitrate over it.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #68 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


I'm talking about having liberty, not about having liberty written down. Not the same thing Aussie.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.

De javu anyone?



Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Gordon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20038
Gordon
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #69 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:27pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I think the benifits left by British colonisation may be called an unintended consequence.
Back to top
 

Wokka Wokka Wokka
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #70 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:28pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:26pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


I'm talking about having liberty, not about having liberty written down. Not the same thing Aussie.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.

De javu anyone?





Let's try this again.

So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #71 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:30pm
 
Quote:
There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I'll accept most of that.  But....this Liberty/Freedom thing in Australia is questionable.

What are the 'inalienable rights' you say Australians have?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #72 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:30pm:
Quote:
There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I'll accept most of that.  But....this Liberty/Freedom thing in Australia is questionable.

What are the 'inalienable rights' you say Australians have?


Whoever you are replying to has it. All the other colonisers were far worse, even destroying their infrastructure before leaving. Blaming the best behaved of the colonisers for the ills of the world is poor form. France was still beating the tinted in the '80s in the pacific. Britain left a legacy that no other colonisers did and if Britain did not colonise those countries, the others would have.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #73 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm
 
Quote:
Whoever you are replying to has it.


Auggie.

Can you list these alleged inalienable rights Australians have?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #74 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Quote:
Whoever you are replying to has it.


Auggie.

Can you list these alleged inalienable rights Australians have?


I wasn't replying to any rights, just the legacy of the BE. Take it up with Auggie and I don't see him saying that in your quote.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #75 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:00pm
 
Dunno why people just don't read.  Here:

Quote:
Aussie, the reason why we don’t have a US style bill of rights is because it is not the British tradition. Our rights are inalienable and don’t need to be enshrined in any constitution. They are protected by the principle of ‘parliamentary soverienty’ (look it up).


Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Online


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15678
Northern NSW
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #76 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:04pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:00pm:
Dunno why people just don't read.  Here:

Quote:
Aussie, the reason why we don’t have a US style bill of rights is because it is not the British tradition. Our rights are inalienable and don’t need to be enshrined in any constitution. They are protected by the principle of ‘parliamentary soverienty’ (look it up).




Perhaps I didn't read it because you did not link it and I did not want to go back to find it. Quote properly and there would be no problem.

I disagree with that statement.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 57197
Gender: female
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #77 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:30pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Good question, FD. And why do you think these institutions were adopted in so many former French, Spanish and Portuguese colonies, Aussie?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #78 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:30pm:
Quote:
There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I'll accept most of that.  But....this Liberty/Freedom thing in Australia is questionable.

What are the 'inalienable rights' you say Australians have?


They are exist in our institutions and laws.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #79 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:18pm
 
Setanta wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:04pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:00pm:
Dunno why people just don't read.  Here:

Quote:
Aussie, the reason why we don’t have a US style bill of rights is because it is not the British tradition. Our rights are inalienable and don’t need to be enshrined in any constitution. They are protected by the principle of ‘parliamentary soverienty’ (look it up).




Perhaps I didn't read it because you did not link it and I did not want to go back to find it. Quote properly and there would be no problem.

I disagree with that statement.


With which statement? That rights are inalienable? Or that they don't need to be enshrined in any constitution?
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #80 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:19pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Quote:
Whoever you are replying to has it.


Auggie.

Can you list these alleged inalienable rights Australians have?


Sure.

1) Freedom of speech;

2) Freedom of association;

3) Freedom to practise one's religion without fear of violence.

4) separation of church and state;

5) rule of law;

6) private property;

7) the pursuit of happiness;

8) life;

And I'm sure there are more but can't think of them at the moment.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #81 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:21pm
 
Not one of them are regarded as inalienable in this Country.  The ONLY rights we have arise either from the Constitution or by Statute.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #82 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm
 
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #83 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Freediver's other forum:ozpolitic.com/
polanimal

Posts: 7361
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #84 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


True that.

To give credit to the British - they have always been about fair play. Imagine if Mr Gandhi had gone up against Stalin, Mao, Hitler et al ... we can all imagine the outcome.
Back to top
 

A cabbie wrote: "Readers simply need to know that Darwin/Monk's/HBS Guy's Forum is a poor copy ...  of the real and historic Political Animal." ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263352013/45
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #85 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:21pm:
Not one of them are regarded as inalienable in this Country.  The ONLY rights we have arise either from the Constitution or by Statute.


Rights don't only exist in laws and statutes, they are also intangible ideas that transcend law or statutes. It's merely a matter of being accepted among our society - like a convention of sort. It is understood and enshrined in the spirit of the people.

Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #86 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.



Jayzuz....another late nifty edit.

Quote:
Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


None of them are inalienable (they can all be nuked by Statute) like the right to bear arms is regarded in America where the right, it seems, came from a sky fairy, and then recognised and enshrined in the Constitution.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #87 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.


They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

Quote:
None of them are inalienable (they can all be nuked by Statute) like the right to bear arms is regarded in America where the right, it seems, came from a sky fairy, and then recognised and enshrined in the Constitution.


Any law that can be written - statutory, common, constitutional, can also be unwritten the same way. Or just ignored, like the right to bear arms.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #88 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:35pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:33pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.



Jayzuz....another late nifty edit.

Quote:
Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


None of them are inalienable (they can all be nuked by Statute) like the right to bear arms is regarded in America where the right, it seems, came from a sky fairy, and then recognised and enshrined in the Constitution.


That's why the British system is superior to the American system. We don't need a Bill of Rights or some Kangaroo Court to tell us what our rights our. We just have them.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #89 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.


They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Waiting....for an edit.....before I respond. 

Far que and your late edits, Effendi....it is a very bad habit you have.  I prepare a response to your post, I publish it and then find you have made later additions.  Happens way too often with you.

Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Freediver's other forum:ozpolitic.com/
polanimal

Posts: 7361
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #90 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:40pm
 
The British created a fertile soil for freedoms to sprout and grow. That can't be said for most societies.
Back to top
 

A cabbie wrote: "Readers simply need to know that Darwin/Monk's/HBS Guy's Forum is a poor copy ...  of the real and historic Political Animal." ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263352013/45
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #91 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:42pm
 
AiA wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:40pm:
The British created a fertile soil for freedoms to sprout and grow. That can't be said for most societies.


Here here.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #92 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:38pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.


They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Waiting....for an edit.....before I respond. 

Far que and your late edits, Effendi....it is a very bad habit you have.  I prepare a response to your post, I publish it and then find you have made later additions.  Happens way too often with you.


So why bother responding? Why not actually wait?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #93 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:38pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.


They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Waiting....for an edit.....before I respond. 

Far que and your late edits, Effendi....it is a very bad habit you have.  I prepare a response to your post, I publish it and then find you have made later additions.  Happens way too often with you.


So why bother responding? Why not actually wait?


Oh....what is the prescribed waiting time?  Have you finished now, or must I wait some more to talk about privacy, for example?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
AiA
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Freediver's other forum:ozpolitic.com/
polanimal

Posts: 7361
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #94 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:46pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:42pm:
AiA wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:40pm:
The British created a fertile soil for freedoms to sprout and grow. That can't be said for most societies.


Here here.


There are theories that it was the pre-Norman Anglo-Saxon societies that laid the foundation for later freedoms ...
Back to top
 

A cabbie wrote: "Readers simply need to know that Darwin/Monk's/HBS Guy's Forum is a poor copy ...  of the real and historic Political Animal." ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263352013/45
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #95 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:48pm
 
AiA wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:42pm:
AiA wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:40pm:
The British created a fertile soil for freedoms to sprout and grow. That can't be said for most societies.


Here here.


There are theories that it was the pre-Norman Anglo-Saxon societies that laid the foundation for later freedoms ...


I'm unaware of such theories. Care to elaborate?

In any case, it was the British who spread them and who established them overseas. Empires often pass on the batton: Rome to Britain, for example.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #96 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:55pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:38pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.


They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Waiting....for an edit.....before I respond. 

Far que and your late edits, Effendi....it is a very bad habit you have.  I prepare a response to your post, I publish it and then find you have made later additions.  Happens way too often with you.


So why bother responding? Why not actually wait?


Oh....what is the prescribed waiting time?  Have you finished now, or must I wait some more to talk about privacy, for example?


In the meantime, you're welcome to comment on my responses.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #97 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:55pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:45pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:38pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.


Rubbish.  The only rights I have are those given to me by the Constitution, Statute or common law.  None of them are regarded as inalienable in Australia.


They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Waiting....for an edit.....before I respond. 

Far que and your late edits, Effendi....it is a very bad habit you have.  I prepare a response to your post, I publish it and then find you have made later additions.  Happens way too often with you.


So why bother responding? Why not actually wait?


Oh....what is the prescribed waiting time?  Have you finished now, or must I wait some more to talk about privacy, for example?


If it bothers you so much, wait. If you can get over it, then respond. I will repost if I think you missed something important.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #98 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:04pm
 
It bothers me....so I'll wait to make sure you have reached your final position.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #99 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:05pm
 
No you won't. You will respond before you have put any thought into what you are going to say.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #100 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
No you won't. You will respond before you have put any thought into what you are going to say.


Not at all Effendi.  I am always happy to respond to you.  I always do.  Shame you do not reciprocate. 

It pisses me off that when I do, and post, I find you have altered the post I was responding to.  You and Agnes do that far too often.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #101 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:15pm
 
I don't care. You'll get over it.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #102 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:31pm
 
It may not have always been a smooth road and it certainly had its ups and downs - but the basic principles of a fair go were put together at Magna Carta, which began the process by clarifying rights of the 'ruling classes', then was extended by the introduction of The Common Law (which means simply that one law was the law of the land, and not one law for every separate jurisdiction), and gradually through the centuries the rights of all were steadily upgraded under English law and provided the basis for many legal advances, such as the abolition of slavery and even the Royal Navy attacking slavers not of their jurisdiction.

Of course - at every step those with the their hands on the controls, including many in the judiciary, have tried to slow down or even reverse this process for reasons of maintaining some myth of a status quo, lest the peasantry gain too much power and 'get above their station'* - something nowhere seen more clearly than in your Napoleonic figures in this nation, such as John Howard The Infamous Coward and Betrayer Of Worlds.

But the principle remains the same - it was the advances of the English Law that either gave directly further advances in rights and legalities, or inspired others, such as the United States, to build on that basic.

I think you could safely say that much of the rights enjoyed by the many are the result of the British Empire...


* Hush, but I tellz yez - there's be a terrible day of judgement some day soon......

Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #103 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm
 
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #104 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #105 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:45pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


And where did the American context come from? That's right: the British.

Second, I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case 'Dred Scott vs. Sanford' and tell me if the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Supreme Court were enough to prevent Scott's rights from being taken away.

The interesting part is that, if you look at both the American and British traditions, the latter has had a much better record in protecting the rights and liberties of its peoples than the former, despite the former having an enshrined Bill of Rights and a Court of Review. For e.g. the British were able to abolish slavery with an Act of Parliament, whereas the Supreme Court and the Constitution weren't able to protect the rights of blacks, even after slavery.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:55pm by John Mothra Smith »  

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Rhino
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 8693
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #106 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:46pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.
Lol. I dont think you understand our legal system very well.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #107 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:52pm
 
Rhino wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.
Lol. I dont think you understand our legal system very well.


Which part of this statement is incorrect Guru?

Quote:
Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.

Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #108 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:55pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:45pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


And where did the American context come from? That's right: the British.

Second, I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case 'Dred Scott vs. Sanford' and tell me if the Bill of Rights if the Constitution and the Supreme Court were enough to prevent Scott's rights from being taken away.

The interesting part is that, if you look at both the American and British traditions, the latter has had a much better record in protecting the rights and liberties of its peoples than the former, despite the former having an enshrined Bill of Rights and a Court of Review. For e.g. the British were able to abolish slavery with an Act of Parliament, whereas the Americans had to have a Civil War to abolish it.


Seems to be entirely discredited.

Link.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #109 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:45pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


And where did the American context come from? That's right: the British.

Second, I suggest you read the US Supreme Court case 'Dred Scott vs. Sanford' and tell me if the Bill of Rights if the Constitution and the Supreme Court were enough to prevent Scott's rights from being taken away.

The interesting part is that, if you look at both the American and British traditions, the latter has had a much better record in protecting the rights and liberties of its peoples than the former, despite the former having an enshrined Bill of Rights and a Court of Review. For e.g. the British were able to abolish slavery with an Act of Parliament, whereas the Americans had to have a Civil War to abolish it.


Seems to be entirely discredited.

Link.


What do you mean by this statement?
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #110 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:02pm
 
Read the Link in my Post.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #111 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:15pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:02pm:
Read the Link in my Post.


Ah I understand now.

Well, of course the decision is NOW condemned; it's the 21st century!

My point is that even the Bill of Rights and the Supreme Court (which is supposed to be a protector of rights) didn't even prevent Dred Scott from having his rights taken away from him.

Even if you compare it to the time and context, the British still did a better job of protecting the rights and liberties of its people than the Americans.

Conclusion: the American model has been, and is inferior to the British model.

Second, and just to go on another rant: there was a story heard once about a slave who escaped America and went to Canada. When he was there he stated that he couldn't believe that in the 'Queen's Dominions' (which was supposed to be the land of tyranny, according to American mythology) granted him more rights and liberties than a self-declared Republic.

Which leads to another conclusion: history has shown:

1) monarchies (although symbolically a tyrannical and unequal system) have produced more harmonious and equal societies than Republics.

2) the lack of a Bill of Rights and a court of arbitration has actually resulted in institutions which have protected the rights and liberties of its peoples more than the opposite.

Finally, this means the following: many pre-conceived notions about the monarchy and the British system are wrong, and paint a completely opposite picture to such notions.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #112 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


So what? We still have rights. Their continuation still depends on us, not a piece of paper.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #113 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:33pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


So what? We still have rights. Their continuation still depends on us, not a piece of paper.


No.  Their existence and continuation depends on Politicians.

'We' (ie mere citizens) can create no rights.  Courts can (where there is a legislative vacuum) but their decisions can always be struck down by Parliament/Politicians.

Do we have an enforceable right to privacy in Australia, Effendi, and right not to be stalked, for example?  Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #114 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:12pm
 
Rhino wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.
Lol. I dont think you understand our legal system very well.


When the instruments of Law themselves operate outside the Rule Of Law - what option is available for the ordinary person in society?

I rather thought we had an illegal system, than a legal one.... since the rules are unashamedly self-serving, and the rule of law has been used to shore up the rule of some who handle it on behalf of the populace.

If this were not so - the police and magistrates would be able to walk down the streets with heads high, rather than having to hide behind walls to ensure their safety.

The 'rule of law' here for over two centuries was 'cops and robbers' - with the cops being able to say anything and have it accepted without question by a 'court'.

Only slowly is that beginning to change..... with better police and slowly dawning realisation on the part of magistrates that they are NOT the power in the land but are servants of the law, and nor are the police the aristocracy.

A wonderful example is where a police officer offers an opinion - unfortunately for the sycophantic and bum-kissing style of 'magistrate' used to rubber-stamping police verbal testimony - the High Court has ruled that an expert opinion must be supported by hard facts, and cannot stand alone.

Change is slow - one of the things that push people to open revolt is the perception that meaningful change is too slow....... watch this space.... politicians beware.... beyond here be dragons...  Cool
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #115 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:18pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:12pm:
Rhino wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:46pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.
Lol. I dont think you understand our legal system very well.


When the instruments of Law themselves operate outside the Rule Of Law - what option is available for the ordinary person in society?

I rather thought we had an illegal system, than a legal one.... since the rules are unashamedly self-serving, and the rule of law has been used to shore up the rule of some who handle it on behalf of the populace.

If this were not so - the police and magistrates would be able to walk down the streets with heads high, rather than having to hide behind walls to ensure their safety.

The 'rule of law' here for over two centuries was 'cops and robbers' - with the cops being able to say anything and have it accepted without question by a 'court'.

Only slowly is that beginning to change..... with better police and slowly dawning realisation on the part of magistrates that they are NOT the power in the land but are servants of the law, and nor are the police the aristocracy.

A wonderful example is where a police officer offers an opinion - unfortunately for the sycophantic and bum-kissing style of 'magistrate' used to rubber-stamping police verbal testimony - the High Court has ruled that an expert opinion must be supported by hard facts, and cannot stand alone.

Change is slow - one of the things that push people to open revolt is the perception that meaningful change is too slow....... watch this space.... politicians beware.... beyond here be dragons...  Cool


The important fact is that the institutions exist to make that possible. Common law is adaptable and convention (unspoken or socially understood rules) are often more powerful than statute. E.g. much of our political system is based on convention.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #116 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #117 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:22pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.


Indeed.  How about under common law?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #118 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:37pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.


Indeed.  How about under common law?


Common law is different from criminal law. I thought you knew that?

Huh
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #119 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm
 
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #120 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #121 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #122 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:04pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?


I'm glad you've asked this question.

So, our rights are derived from classic liberal values, i.e. John Locke, etc. Liberalism is the defining feature of Western societies. 

Classical liberalism infers the right to privacy.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 37191
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #123 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:05pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:37pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.


Indeed.  How about under common law?


Common law is different from criminal law. I thought you knew that?

Huh


As I said - common law simply means that the same rules apply everywhere (in this case) in a State of the Commonwealth - and sometimes Australia-wide.

In that sense, criminal law is under common law - one court may not hand down a sentence of hanging when it is forbidden for any to do so... and jurisprudence must be carried out under the same rules everywhere (fine theory - but hell)...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #124 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:07pm
 
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?


I'm glad you've asked this question.

So, our rights are derived from classic liberal values, i.e. John Locke, etc. Liberalism is the defining feature of Western societies. 

Classical liberalism infers the right to privacy.


"Classical liberalism" a Law does not create.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #125 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:08pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:37pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.


Indeed.  How about under common law?


Common law is different from criminal law. I thought you knew that?

Huh


As I said - common law simply means that the same rules apply everywhere (in this case) in a State of the Commonwealth - and sometimes Australia-wide.

In that sense, criminal law is under common law - one court may not hand down a sentence of hanging when it is forbidden for any to do so... and jurisprudence must be carried out under the same rules everywhere (fine theory - but hell)...


It's a bit more complicated than that. Common law is based on precedent, whilst criminal law is codified.

In non-common law jurisdiction, they use civil law (not to be confused with civil law as being opposite to criminal law) whereby all laws, rules etc are explicitly codified. For e.g. contract law infers that a contract is valid only where there is reciprocity but this idea isn't explicitly defined by law; it's 'well-known' knowledge among Jurists.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #126 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:11pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:07pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
John Mothra Smith wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?


I'm glad you've asked this question.

So, our rights are derived from classic liberal values, i.e. John Locke, etc. Liberalism is the defining feature of Western societies. 

Classical liberalism infers the right to privacy.


"Classical liberalism" a Law does not create.


Classical liberalism is an ideology, and this ideology defines our rights and liberties as individuals. These 'ideas' are then shaped into practice through law and institutions.

"It has been demonstrated that no system, not even the most inhuman, can continue to exist without an ideology." This means simply that the systems and institutions we have today are predicated on the ideas of classical liberalism.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #127 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:15pm
 
For example, the State Government could legally send the police on to your land, kick you out of your house, and confiscate your property without compensation, without any legal recourse. But it won't. Why? Because the ideas of classical liberalism that exist in our psyche and in the institutions of democracy are a check on the infringement of government.

Liberty requires self-control and self-restraint, even from the government, otherwise you cannot have a free society. Not confiscating your property requires self-control.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #128 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:15pm
 
Auggie....no 'ideology' is able to create common law.  That can only occur in Courts.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #129 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:17pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:15pm:
Auggie....no 'ideology' is able to create common law.  That can only occur in Courts.


No, I said that liberalism created the idea of human rights, not common law. Common law is the practical instrument of government which can be used to take away or protect rights.

This the chicken and egg question: the idea came first, then the practical application.

EDIT: actually not common law, criminal law. Something is only a crime if it is explicitly codified.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #130 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:18am
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:33pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


So what? We still have rights. Their continuation still depends on us, not a piece of paper.


No.  Their existence and continuation depends on Politicians.

'We' (ie mere citizens) can create no rights.  Courts can (where there is a legislative vacuum) but their decisions can always be struck down by Parliament/Politicians.

Do we have an enforceable right to privacy in Australia, Effendi, and right not to be stalked, for example?  Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


If it was up to politicians, our rights would be gone in 6 months.

Rights always boil down to the willingness of people to defend them.

Are you denying the existence of these rights merely to avoid answering the question?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #131 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11am
 
Do you reckon they were have been adopted because it was thought to be a bad idea Effendi?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #132 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:46pm
 
No Aussie. Which is why I asked you whether you consider that to be sufficient. You never answered.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #133 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
No Aussie. Which is why I asked you whether you consider that to be sufficient. You never answered.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Okay....I'll play but first you'll have to tell me which of the Colonies you are referring to and which you are not.

For example, or you telling me that Rhodesia is one of those you are referring to?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #134 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #135 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.


Okay....list them, and....oh.....can you include those which were not British Colonies?  There must have been some French, Spanish, and even Portugese which also adopted the same basic tenets?
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #136 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:55pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
No Aussie. Which is why I asked you whether you consider that to be sufficient. You never answered.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Okay....I'll play but first you'll have to tell me which of the Colonies you are referring to and which you are not.

For example, or you telling me that Rhodesia is one of those you are referring to?


I can answer that. Many people would argue that the conditions of the blacks were better under white minority rule than under current situation.

But, that is because the only valid comparison was Mugabe.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #137 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:05pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.


Okay....list them, and....oh.....can you include those which were not British Colonies?  There must have been some French, Spanish, and even Portugese which also adopted the same basic tenets?


Incorrect. The Spanish colonies didn't adopt democracy in their colonies. In fact, why do you think the Spanish Americas fought for their independence to sever their ties to the Crown? If you look at those countries today, they are quite broken; this is in part due to the Spanish influence.

EDIT: Brazil had slavery up until 1881.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #138 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:07pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.


Okay....list them, and....oh.....can you include those which were not British Colonies?  There must have been some French, Spanish, and even Portugese which also adopted the same basic tenets?


No Aussie, I am not going to list them for you. It is a simple question.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

You have tried denying that rights exist without a bit of paper. And now you demand I research the question I am asking. Why are you pretending to be an idiot just to avoid giving an answer? Do you really have no idea what countries I am referring to?

Yes, you are right that other non-British colonies adopted the same institutions. French ones in particular. Would you like to guess why? Or do those countries not exist until I produce the piece of paper to prove they do?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #139 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:09pm
 
Quote:
Incorrect. The Spanish colonies didn't adopt democracy in their colonies. In fact, why do you think the Spanish Americas fought for their independence to sever their ties to the Crown? If you look at those countries today, they are quite broken; this is in part due to the Spanish influence.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice#Pre-Columbian_Americas
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #140 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:10pm
 
Quote:
Many people would argue that the conditions of the blacks were better under white minority rule than under current situation.


Gawd...you are almost irredeemable Caesar, but I'll not give up on you.

Point is....it is not for some 'Johhny come lately' white minority to tell a black majority of eons what is best for them.  That is quintessential 'British' arrogance......and here we are, even today....telling Arabs how they should live in their Lands.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #141 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11pm
 
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?

Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #142 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:13pm
 
Quote:
You have tried denying that rights exist without a bit of paper.


Ah...is that what it is all about?

I'll make it clear then. 

Rights DO NOT exist without a piece of paper or a Court decision.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #143 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11pm:
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?


Yes.  As it has been said....'When the missionaries came, we had the Land and they had the Bible.  They asked us to close our eyes and pray.  When we opened our eyes, we had the Bible, and they had the Land.'

Quote:
Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?


Not my problem to give a farq about.
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #144 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:18pm
 
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?

Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?

Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

Why are you pretending to be an idiot to avoid answering?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #145 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:19pm
 
Quote:
Not my problem to give a farq about.


So what is your point then? Why did you bring it up? To highlight that you have no idea what you are on about?

Quote:
Yes.  As it has been said....'When the missionaries came, we had the Land and they had the Bible.  They asked us to close our eyes and prey.  When we opened our eyes, we had the Bible, and they had the Land.'


So because of those missionaries it is arrogant to tell people that democracy and liberty are good things?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #146 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:22pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:10pm:
Quote:
Many people would argue that the conditions of the blacks were better under white minority rule than under current situation.


Gawd...you are almost irredeemable Caesar, but I'll not give up on you.

Point is....it is not for some 'Johhny come lately' white minority to tell a black majority of eons what is best for them.  That is quintessential 'British' arrogance......and here we are, even today....telling Arabs how they should live in their Lands.


You misunderstand me, Aussie.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is often a more complex picture than what we believe. I'm not saying that I believe the blacks shouldn't have had their sovereignty; of course they should have.

I suggest you read about the history of Rhodesia, and Ian Smith. He eventually came around to transitioning to black rule and had planned to have a coalition with Abel Muzorewa, who was a black moderate. The British had agreed to support the coalition black/white government, but once Smith gave up power, the British backed Mugabe. And this results are clear today.

I don't think it's racist to point out that a society under white minority rule was better than under the current one, if it is a fact.

There was a Filipino President called Manuel Luis Quezon; he once said: "I'd rather have a Filipino government run like hell than an American government run like heaven; because in the first case, we can always change it."

Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
John Mothra Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


A force to be reckoned
with

Posts: 6532
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #147 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11pm:
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?

Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?


Nothing genetic about it.

Their societies just didn't meet the conditions to develop. Cows couldn't survive in Africa. Jared Diamond makes this clear.
Back to top
 

BRING BACK THE EXILES!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #148 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:18pm:
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?


Yes.

Quote:
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?


Sure...you can 'tell' them, and sure, it is arrogant.

Quote:
Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?


No idea, and not my problem, or yours.

Quote:
Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Which former British colonies are you referring to Effendi?  You've not said when I asked previously, yet here you are, typically repeating the same question in the vain hope that through sheer repetition, you'll get a different answer.  You won't.

Quote:
Why are you pretending to be an idiot to avoid answering?


Why are you ignoring what I have told you.

Cool
Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #149 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:31pm
 
Quote:
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?
Yes.


You aslo said:

Quote:
Rights DO NOT exist without a piece of paper or a Court decision.


Are both version correct? Or can you not see the contradiction?

Quote:
Sure...you can 'tell' them, and sure, it is arrogant.


Why is it arrogant?

Quote:
No idea, and not my problem, or yours.


So what is your point then? Why did you bring it up? To highlight that you have no idea what you are on about?

Quote:
Which former British colonies are you referring to Effendi?  You've not said when I asked previously, yet here you are, typically repeating the same question in the vain hope that through sheer repetition, you'll get a different answer.  You won't.


I have told you which ones I am referring to Aussie. Why are you afraid to give a straight answer to a simple question?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39917
Gender: male
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #150 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:31pm:
Quote:
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?
Yes.


You aslo said:

Quote:
Rights DO NOT exist without a piece of paper or a Court decision.


Are both version correct? Or can you not see the contradiction?

Cute.  I fell for your evil trap thinking I could equate a World where there was just one person with a World where there was more than one.  Congratulations Effendi.  Well done.


Quote:
Sure...you can 'tell' them, and sure, it is arrogant.


Why is it arrogant?

What, other than arrogance gives you the right to interfere in cultures which existed millenniums before you strode in with your ideas of what would be better for them?  Better for 'you,' or for 'them?'  Fact is, history tells us that we only ever strode in to other cultures for exploitation or conquest...never liberation.


Quote:
No idea, and not my problem, or yours.


So what is your point then? Why did you bring it up? To highlight that you have no idea what you are on about?

No. The opposite.


Quote:
Which former British colonies are you referring to Effendi?  You've not said when I asked previously, yet here you are, typically repeating the same question in the vain hope that through sheer repetition, you'll get a different answer.  You won't.


I have told you which ones I am referring to Aussie. Why are you afraid to give a straight answer to a simple question?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

Same question.  Same answer.  List them.  You can ..... can't you?

Back to top
 

And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 41512
I like fish
Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #151 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:51pm
 
Quote:
What, other than arrogance gives you the right to interfere in cultures which existed millenniums before you strode in with your ideas of what would be better for them?  Better for 'you,' or for 'them?'  Fact is, history tells us that we only ever strode in to other cultures for exploitation or conquest...never liberation.


We are talking about saying what we think Aussie. Is it arrogant because it is wrong? If it is right, why is it arrogant to speak the truth?

Quote:
Rights DO NOT exist without a piece of paper or a Court decision.


Does that mean we do have rights in Australia after all? Can you answer the question now? Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

Why are you pretending to be an idiot to avoid giving an answer. Do you not actually know which colonies I am talking about?
Back to top
 

It's God's job to forgive terrorists; it's our job to arrange the meeting.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print