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If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire (Read 7609 times)
freediver
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #60 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
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Aussie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #61 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:52pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India UK, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


There is an error in that.  No, I meant they fled to the UK....like TIB's Old Man did with his Wife and many kids in tow.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #62 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm
 
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #63 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?
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Aussie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #64 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.
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freediver
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #65 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


I'm talking about having liberty, not about having liberty written down. Not the same thing Aussie.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
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Auggie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #66 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:19pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #67 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:23pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


Aussie, the reason why we don’t have a US style bill of rights is because it is not the British tradition. Our rights are inalienable and don’t need to be enshrined in any constitution. They are protected by the principle of ‘parliamentary soverienty’ (look it up).

If you compare the American experience of protecting civil rights with the British experience, you’ll find that the latter has had a much better track record than the former, despite the former having a constitution and a Supreme Court to arbitrate over it.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #68 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


I'm talking about having liberty, not about having liberty written down. Not the same thing Aussie.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.

De javu anyone?



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Gordon
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #69 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:27pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:09pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:38am:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:34am:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:29am:
I said ~ The video presents a position of flawless virtue.

That'd be my imagination, Effendi.


I thought so. Do you have a problem with anything it actually says? Or only what it doesn't say?


Yes.  Do you?


So, do you disagree that the British spread the idea of liberty, and the rule of law through its colonies??


Yes.....they spread suppression until they had control,  or lost control, and then....when time passed, the Rule of Law was adopted in most of the former Colonies.  But, their initial intent was domination, colonisation, and even genocide of anyone who stood in their way.  For example, the Maoris fought back, beat them, and "Waitangi" was created.

They were booted out of India, but wise heads there saw that a viable infrastructure had been put in place.

Same in Kenya, and probably other places I have no personal familiarity with.  They left Kenya when Kenyata the Mao Moa 'terrorists' got uppity.  Many Indian Families left Kenya and fled to India, leaving a viable infrastructure behind.  Those Indians are the initial immigrants into England that people like Herbert are pissed off about.


There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I think the benifits left by British colonisation may be called an unintended consequence.
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freediver
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #70 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:28pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:26pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:54pm:
Quote:
Why do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.


So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?

Why do you leave out liberty?


Because 'personal liberty' has never been protected in Australia (or any other former Colony) like it has (to a very large extent) in the US via their Constitution.


I'm talking about having liberty, not about having liberty written down. Not the same thing Aussie.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Probably because they thought they were good ideas.  (Leaving 'personal liberty' out of that.)

You don't have to be a genius to work that out FD.

De javu anyone?





Let's try this again.

So that's all it takes to set up a democracy - for people to think it's a good idea?
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Aussie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #71 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:30pm
 
Quote:
There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I'll accept most of that.  But....this Liberty/Freedom thing in Australia is questionable.

What are the 'inalienable rights' you say Australians have?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #72 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:30pm:
Quote:
There no doubt that Britain did colonise and plunder. It is also true (two things can be true at the same time) that they established infrastructure (as you say) in their colonies, which led to concept of rule of law.

My argument is that in balance the British empire was a force for good. The road to modernity is paved with blood and the British were the worst, EXCEPT for all the other powers.

The freedom you enjoy today and the lifestyle is as a result of our British legacy.


I'll accept most of that.  But....this Liberty/Freedom thing in Australia is questionable.

What are the 'inalienable rights' you say Australians have?


Whoever you are replying to has it. All the other colonisers were far worse, even destroying their infrastructure before leaving. Blaming the best behaved of the colonisers for the ills of the world is poor form. France was still beating the tinted in the '80s in the pacific. Britain left a legacy that no other colonisers did and if Britain did not colonise those countries, the others would have.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #73 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm
 
Quote:
Whoever you are replying to has it.


Auggie.

Can you list these alleged inalienable rights Australians have?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #74 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:56pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Quote:
Whoever you are replying to has it.


Auggie.

Can you list these alleged inalienable rights Australians have?


I wasn't replying to any rights, just the legacy of the BE. Take it up with Auggie and I don't see him saying that in your quote.
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