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If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire (Read 7611 times)
Aussie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #135 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.


Okay....list them, and....oh.....can you include those which were not British Colonies?  There must have been some French, Spanish, and even Portugese which also adopted the same basic tenets?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #136 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:55pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
No Aussie. Which is why I asked you whether you consider that to be sufficient. You never answered.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Okay....I'll play but first you'll have to tell me which of the Colonies you are referring to and which you are not.

For example, or you telling me that Rhodesia is one of those you are referring to?


I can answer that. Many people would argue that the conditions of the blacks were better under white minority rule than under current situation.

But, that is because the only valid comparison was Mugabe.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #137 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:05pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.


Okay....list them, and....oh.....can you include those which were not British Colonies?  There must have been some French, Spanish, and even Portugese which also adopted the same basic tenets?


Incorrect. The Spanish colonies didn't adopt democracy in their colonies. In fact, why do you think the Spanish Americas fought for their independence to sever their ties to the Crown? If you look at those countries today, they are quite broken; this is in part due to the Spanish influence.

EDIT: Brazil had slavery up until 1881.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #138 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:07pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm:
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.


Okay....list them, and....oh.....can you include those which were not British Colonies?  There must have been some French, Spanish, and even Portugese which also adopted the same basic tenets?


No Aussie, I am not going to list them for you. It is a simple question.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

You have tried denying that rights exist without a bit of paper. And now you demand I research the question I am asking. Why are you pretending to be an idiot just to avoid giving an answer? Do you really have no idea what countries I am referring to?

Yes, you are right that other non-British colonies adopted the same institutions. French ones in particular. Would you like to guess why? Or do those countries not exist until I produce the piece of paper to prove they do?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #139 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:09pm
 
Quote:
Incorrect. The Spanish colonies didn't adopt democracy in their colonies. In fact, why do you think the Spanish Americas fought for their independence to sever their ties to the Crown? If you look at those countries today, they are quite broken; this is in part due to the Spanish influence.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice#Pre-Columbian_Americas
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #140 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:10pm
 
Quote:
Many people would argue that the conditions of the blacks were better under white minority rule than under current situation.


Gawd...you are almost irredeemable Caesar, but I'll not give up on you.

Point is....it is not for some 'Johhny come lately' white minority to tell a black majority of eons what is best for them.  That is quintessential 'British' arrogance......and here we are, even today....telling Arabs how they should live in their Lands.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #141 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11pm
 
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?

Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #142 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:13pm
 
Quote:
You have tried denying that rights exist without a bit of paper.


Ah...is that what it is all about?

I'll make it clear then. 

Rights DO NOT exist without a piece of paper or a Court decision.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #143 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11pm:
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?


Yes.  As it has been said....'When the missionaries came, we had the Land and they had the Bible.  They asked us to close our eyes and pray.  When we opened our eyes, we had the Bible, and they had the Land.'

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Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?


Not my problem to give a farq about.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #144 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:18pm
 
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?

Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?

Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?

Why are you pretending to be an idiot to avoid answering?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #145 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:19pm
 
Quote:
Not my problem to give a farq about.


So what is your point then? Why did you bring it up? To highlight that you have no idea what you are on about?

Quote:
Yes.  As it has been said....'When the missionaries came, we had the Land and they had the Bible.  They asked us to close our eyes and prey.  When we opened our eyes, we had the Bible, and they had the Land.'


So because of those missionaries it is arrogant to tell people that democracy and liberty are good things?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #146 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:22pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:10pm:
Quote:
Many people would argue that the conditions of the blacks were better under white minority rule than under current situation.


Gawd...you are almost irredeemable Caesar, but I'll not give up on you.

Point is....it is not for some 'Johhny come lately' white minority to tell a black majority of eons what is best for them.  That is quintessential 'British' arrogance......and here we are, even today....telling Arabs how they should live in their Lands.


You misunderstand me, Aussie.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is often a more complex picture than what we believe. I'm not saying that I believe the blacks shouldn't have had their sovereignty; of course they should have.

I suggest you read about the history of Rhodesia, and Ian Smith. He eventually came around to transitioning to black rule and had planned to have a coalition with Abel Muzorewa, who was a black moderate. The British had agreed to support the coalition black/white government, but once Smith gave up power, the British backed Mugabe. And this results are clear today.

I don't think it's racist to point out that a society under white minority rule was better than under the current one, if it is a fact.

There was a Filipino President called Manuel Luis Quezon; he once said: "I'd rather have a Filipino government run like hell than an American government run like heaven; because in the first case, we can always change it."

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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #147 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11pm:
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?

Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?


Nothing genetic about it.

Their societies just didn't meet the conditions to develop. Cows couldn't survive in Africa. Jared Diamond makes this clear.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #148 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:18pm:
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?


Yes.

Quote:
Is it arrogant to tell people of a different race living under the yoke of dictatorship that they would be better off in a liberal democracy?


Sure...you can 'tell' them, and sure, it is arrogant.

Quote:
Is there something genetic with these Africans that make them incompatible with liberal democracy? Perhaps you think they have a superior dictatorial culture?


No idea, and not my problem, or yours.

Quote:
Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Which former British colonies are you referring to Effendi?  You've not said when I asked previously, yet here you are, typically repeating the same question in the vain hope that through sheer repetition, you'll get a different answer.  You won't.

Quote:
Why are you pretending to be an idiot to avoid answering?


Why are you ignoring what I have told you.

Cool
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #149 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:31pm
 
Quote:
If I was the only person who existed on earth, would I have the right to do as I please?
Yes.


You aslo said:

Quote:
Rights DO NOT exist without a piece of paper or a Court decision.


Are both version correct? Or can you not see the contradiction?

Quote:
Sure...you can 'tell' them, and sure, it is arrogant.


Why is it arrogant?

Quote:
No idea, and not my problem, or yours.


So what is your point then? Why did you bring it up? To highlight that you have no idea what you are on about?

Quote:
Which former British colonies are you referring to Effendi?  You've not said when I asked previously, yet here you are, typically repeating the same question in the vain hope that through sheer repetition, you'll get a different answer.  You won't.


I have told you which ones I am referring to Aussie. Why are you afraid to give a straight answer to a simple question?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
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