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If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire (Read 7621 times)
Auggie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #120 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #121 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?
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Auggie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #122 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:04pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?


I'm glad you've asked this question.

So, our rights are derived from classic liberal values, i.e. John Locke, etc. Liberalism is the defining feature of Western societies. 

Classical liberalism infers the right to privacy.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #123 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:05pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:37pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.


Indeed.  How about under common law?


Common law is different from criminal law. I thought you knew that?

Huh


As I said - common law simply means that the same rules apply everywhere (in this case) in a State of the Commonwealth - and sometimes Australia-wide.

In that sense, criminal law is under common law - one court may not hand down a sentence of hanging when it is forbidden for any to do so... and jurisprudence must be carried out under the same rules everywhere (fine theory - but hell)...
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #124 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:07pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?


I'm glad you've asked this question.

So, our rights are derived from classic liberal values, i.e. John Locke, etc. Liberalism is the defining feature of Western societies. 

Classical liberalism infers the right to privacy.


"Classical liberalism" a Law does not create.
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Auggie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #125 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:08pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:37pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:22pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


Last I checked: stalking was a crime.


Indeed.  How about under common law?


Common law is different from criminal law. I thought you knew that?

Huh


As I said - common law simply means that the same rules apply everywhere (in this case) in a State of the Commonwealth - and sometimes Australia-wide.

In that sense, criminal law is under common law - one court may not hand down a sentence of hanging when it is forbidden for any to do so... and jurisprudence must be carried out under the same rules everywhere (fine theory - but hell)...


It's a bit more complicated than that. Common law is based on precedent, whilst criminal law is codified.

In non-common law jurisdiction, they use civil law (not to be confused with civil law as being opposite to criminal law) whereby all laws, rules etc are explicitly codified. For e.g. contract law infers that a contract is valid only where there is reciprocity but this idea isn't explicitly defined by law; it's 'well-known' knowledge among Jurists.
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Auggie
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #126 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:11pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:07pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:58pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 3:41pm:
Of course I know it.  How about an answer to my question?

Is a right not to be stalked inalienable?


My apologies. You did ask that question.

My answer is: yes, you have a right to privacy, and you have the right to feel safe and secure.


What is the source of that right?  Where does it derive from?


I'm glad you've asked this question.

So, our rights are derived from classic liberal values, i.e. John Locke, etc. Liberalism is the defining feature of Western societies. 

Classical liberalism infers the right to privacy.


"Classical liberalism" a Law does not create.


Classical liberalism is an ideology, and this ideology defines our rights and liberties as individuals. These 'ideas' are then shaped into practice through law and institutions.

"It has been demonstrated that no system, not even the most inhuman, can continue to exist without an ideology." This means simply that the systems and institutions we have today are predicated on the ideas of classical liberalism.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #127 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:15pm
 
For example, the State Government could legally send the police on to your land, kick you out of your house, and confiscate your property without compensation, without any legal recourse. But it won't. Why? Because the ideas of classical liberalism that exist in our psyche and in the institutions of democracy are a check on the infringement of government.

Liberty requires self-control and self-restraint, even from the government, otherwise you cannot have a free society. Not confiscating your property requires self-control.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #128 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:15pm
 
Auggie....no 'ideology' is able to create common law.  That can only occur in Courts.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #129 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:17pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:15pm:
Auggie....no 'ideology' is able to create common law.  That can only occur in Courts.


No, I said that liberalism created the idea of human rights, not common law. Common law is the practical instrument of government which can be used to take away or protect rights.

This the chicken and egg question: the idea came first, then the practical application.

EDIT: actually not common law, criminal law. Something is only a crime if it is explicitly codified.
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #130 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:18am
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:44pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:33pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:40pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:24pm:
Is it safe for Aussie to respond yet?


Quote:
They are recognised by law. That is not the same thing as how you got them. Which is why you are struggling so hard to disagree with me.

Rights don't arise from a piece of paper Aussie. They arise from your willingness to defend them.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


We have NO inalienable rights as that term is understood in an American context.  Laws can be changed at the whim of Government.


So what? We still have rights. Their continuation still depends on us, not a piece of paper.


No.  Their existence and continuation depends on Politicians.

'We' (ie mere citizens) can create no rights.  Courts can (where there is a legislative vacuum) but their decisions can always be struck down by Parliament/Politicians.

Do we have an enforceable right to privacy in Australia, Effendi, and right not to be stalked, for example?  Do we have remedies against those who breach privacy and stalk?


If it was up to politicians, our rights would be gone in 6 months.

Rights always boil down to the willingness of people to defend them.

Are you denying the existence of these rights merely to avoid answering the question?

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #131 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 9:11am
 
Do you reckon they were have been adopted because it was thought to be a bad idea Effendi?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #132 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:46pm
 
No Aussie. Which is why I asked you whether you consider that to be sufficient. You never answered.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #133 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
No Aussie. Which is why I asked you whether you consider that to be sufficient. You never answered.

Why (other than because they think it's a good idea, duh) do you think institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc were adopted in so many former British colonies Aussie?


Okay....I'll play but first you'll have to tell me which of the Colonies you are referring to and which you are not.

For example, or you telling me that Rhodesia is one of those you are referring to?
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Re: If you live in freedom, thank the British Empire
Reply #134 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
I'm referring to the ones that adopted institutions like the rule of law, democracy, personal liberty etc. There is a long list of them.
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