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The 'Armed' Republic of Australia (Read 2903 times)
BigOl64
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #45 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:21pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:09pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:57pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:57pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
When we become a 'Republic'  Why TF should any other country 'look after' us?

Brexit has nothing to do with what Australia decides to do in the future.

We can always throw bananas at the enemy once we become a 'Republic'.........we'll have little else to confront a foe with.
......


We'll continue to be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Becoming a Republic won't cause any countries, especially not the UK or the US, to turn their back on us.


Why would it?


Why shouldn't it, Australia wants its independence, so why expect the protection of others?


I'm not sure you understand what becoming a Republic actually means.




Most pro-republicans tend to be totally ignorant of the dangers of becoming a republic, they just want change for the sake of change. They can't even agree on a model, just to run headlong into the vote be be damned of the consequences.


Republicans like most socialists are in fact just cretins with intractable, il-conceived opinions.






Well can I ask what are the dangers?



Well for a start the republicans have no fkking idea what their republic will look like or how it will operate.

They think that changing a title from GG to president is all that is needed, they have no fkking idea how our current system of government works, but are adamant it needs changing.


Would you let a group of people that clueless change your entire system of government?




So how else would it change if we just cut out the GG and changed it to something else?



Well we would have tens of thousands of armed personnel who no longer swear allegiance to the Queen and no longer have their orders legalised and validated. The GG cannot do that nor should a president, even the seppos don't trust their president with that power. And for good reason.


So thanks for proving my point there boj  Smiley



Wouldnt they just swear it to the people of Australia?



Well because that would be meaningless and stupid, when I swore my allegiance, I knew who it was and exactly what their purpose was. It made very serious orders legal and valid, they weren't some meaningless entity with no value. They were a single person who we all ultimately answered to.

The Queen is the ultimate authority to issue any order and to make the order legal. She isn't some concept or fluffy ideal.


Ever wonder why the worse of the worst third world sh1t holes are republics run by presidents?

Once you have the military answer to your authority, you are in charge, who would want to have that amount of power?
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BigOl64
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #46 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:24pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:15pm:
I'm not trying to show that your point isn't true, just that it isnt even a point in the first place.



Yeah it is, it is a very big point.


It is not one that I would be happy to have unresolved because a bunch of lefty dickheads wanted a 'minor' change of government.


Every issue must be resolved before we even think of making such a monumentally stupid decision.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #47 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:25pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
When we become a 'Republic'  Why TF should any other country 'look after' us?

Brexit has nothing to do with what Australia decides to do in the future.

We can always throw bananas at the enemy once we become a 'Republic'.........we'll have little else to confront a foe with.
......


We'll continue to be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Becoming a Republic won't cause any countries, especially not the UK or the US, to turn their back on us.


Why would it?


Why shouldn't it, Australia wants its independence, so why expect the protection of others?


I'm not sure you understand what becoming a Republic actually means.




Most pro-republicans tend to be totally ignorant of the dangers of becoming a republic, they just want change for the sake of change. They can't even agree on a model, just to run headlong into the vote be be damned of the consequences.


Republicans like most socialists are in fact just cretins with intractable, il-conceived opinions.




"Dangers"?

Please elaborate.

And, why do you think our Head of State should be born into the position with no discernible qualifications?

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lee
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #48 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:28pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:17pm:
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
Wouldnt they just swear it to the people of Australia?


Which people? Jack has a different opinion to Jim, who has a different opinion to Doris.




Ummm, right. Do you see the issue of this statement?i





Probably nopt


The issue is if you are swearing allegiance to the people of Australia; to which person are you actually swearing allegiance?

The people of Australia has no cognitive function, can't issue orders. Do you want a vote each time you want the military to do something? How much of that vote would constitute a workable majority?

If urgent action is imperative, do you have time to hold a citizen's referendum?
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BigOl64
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #49 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:29pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:25pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
When we become a 'Republic'  Why TF should any other country 'look after' us?

Brexit has nothing to do with what Australia decides to do in the future.

We can always throw bananas at the enemy once we become a 'Republic'.........we'll have little else to confront a foe with.
......


We'll continue to be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Becoming a Republic won't cause any countries, especially not the UK or the US, to turn their back on us.


Why would it?


Why shouldn't it, Australia wants its independence, so why expect the protection of others?


I'm not sure you understand what becoming a Republic actually means.




Most pro-republicans tend to be totally ignorant of the dangers of becoming a republic, they just want change for the sake of change. They can't even agree on a model, just to run headlong into the vote be be damned of the consequences.


Republicans like most socialists are in fact just cretins with intractable, il-conceived opinions.




"Dangers"?

Please elaborate.

And, why do you think our Head of State should be born into the position with no discernible qualifications?




Already have dickhead.


Im pretty sure a monarch spend their entire early life learning the job. What does a lying little grub learn before jumping to to the pig swill of freebies? Besides be an exceptional lying piece of sh1t, of course.


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greggerypeccary
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #50 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:32pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:25pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
When we become a 'Republic'  Why TF should any other country 'look after' us?

Brexit has nothing to do with what Australia decides to do in the future.

We can always throw bananas at the enemy once we become a 'Republic'.........we'll have little else to confront a foe with.
......


We'll continue to be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Becoming a Republic won't cause any countries, especially not the UK or the US, to turn their back on us.


Why would it?


Why shouldn't it, Australia wants its independence, so why expect the protection of others?


I'm not sure you understand what becoming a Republic actually means.




Most pro-republicans tend to be totally ignorant of the dangers of becoming a republic, they just want change for the sake of change. They can't even agree on a model, just to run headlong into the vote be be damned of the consequences.


Republicans like most socialists are in fact just cretins with intractable, il-conceived opinions.




"Dangers"?

Please elaborate.

And, why do you think our Head of State should be born into the position with no discernible qualifications?




Already have dickhead.


Im pretty sure a monarch spend their entire early life learning the job. What does a lying little grub learn before jumping to to the pig swill of freebies? Besides be an exceptional lying piece of sh1t, of course.




You've identified no dangers.

Moreover, you haven't explained why you believe people should be born into positions of power (and why all Australians should be excluded from becoming our Head of State).

Why is that?

I'm curious.
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Jasin
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #51 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:11pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
We best take note of what some here are bright enough to comprehend.

Breaking away from, or staying within a monarchy will not protect Australia.

They know that, outside of sport, on it's own Australia has never had any true, natural predators to contend with physically.

Going forward, who here believes that will always be the case? And if it changes to our detriment, will Australia be able to ward off all major comers.......physically.......on it's own..........a land of about ± 24 million, but a defense force of less than 100,000?

http://33sm.net16.net/smileys/yikes.png


Also, be aware that becoming a Republic in name only, keeping the status quo (government, laws/constitution) resolves nothing, & strengthens us not one bit.

Harsh realities must be faced, & drastic choices must eventually be honestly met with determination......from a position of strength, not weakness.


Well said Panther.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Jasin
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #52 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:16pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
When we become a 'Republic'  Why TF should any other country 'look after' us?

Brexit has nothing to do with what Australia decides to do in the future.

We can always throw bananas at the enemy once we become a 'Republic'.........we'll have little else to confront a foe with.
......


We'll continue to be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Becoming a Republic won't cause any countries, especially not the UK or the US, to turn their back on us.


Why would it?


Why shouldn't it, Australia wants its independence, so why expect the protection of others?


I'm not sure you understand what becoming a Republic actually means.




Most pro-republicans tend to be totally ignorant of the dangers of becoming a republic, they just want change for the sake of change. They can't even agree on a model, just to run headlong into the vote be be damned of the consequences.


Republicans like most socialists are in fact just cretins with intractable, il-conceived opinions.




You're right there BigOl64.
It has been the current vibe since the Republican debate began.
Australia has got it good, with the British infused Commonwealth. It's like someone else paying your welfare.
Why else would you want to enforce a Republic?
Capitosonora tries to antagonise with the old cliché "But you're British" ...when in truth, we are Australian - who just happen to get a lot of extra benefits from Britain.
Why on earth would we want to change that?
We don't need to fight of Britain like the Americans did.
They're not 'ripping us off'. They've provided us with a good home, clothes, etc.

But,
if Britain should 'reject' Australia ...just like it historically 'rejected' its poor to Australia in the first place. Well, then that's a different matter.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Jasin
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #53 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:26pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:55pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 12:36pm:
When we become a 'Republic'  Why TF should any other country 'look after' us?

Brexit has nothing to do with what Australia decides to do in the future.

We can always throw bananas at the enemy once we become a 'Republic'.........we'll have little else to confront a foe with.
......


We'll continue to be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Becoming a Republic won't cause any countries, especially not the UK or the US, to turn their back on us.


Why would it?


Why shouldn't it, Australia wants its independence, so why expect the protection of others?


I'm not sure you understand what becoming a Republic actually means.




Most pro-republicans tend to be totally ignorant of the dangers of becoming a republic, they just want change for the sake of change. They can't even agree on a model, just to run headlong into the vote be be damned of the consequences.


Republicans like most socialists are in fact just cretins with intractable, il-conceived opinions.






Well can I ask what are the dangers?


There will be a lot of 'Dangers'.
Australia will have to become 'Domestically Self Sufficient',
rather than be the darling of International interests.
In doing so, we become 'self interested' to some degree (and will the USA be forced to become more 'Internationally compliant?) and that's like rejecting what everyone else wants you to do and doing what YOU want to do yourself.

A good hint is that Leonardo DiCaprio movie with him playing both King Louis: The 'good' one in Prison, the 'bad' one as King at the start ...until the 'switch'.
It's the same scenario as Percival and Lancelot - the rise of one, the fall of the other (much like Mohommedism's 'Rise' and Judaism's 'Fall').

The pressure is on the USA to 'conform' more to the World (rather than trying to conform the World to the USA's ways)
Internationally.
While Australia, always bidding to the World's (Multi-Culture here is a good example as it dominates over anything patriotically 'Australian' ...which is deemed 'racist') - whims (and funds the U.N) will thus become more Independently 'self interested'.

But for Australia to do that ...a lot of the 'World' will also feel 'rejected' and there will be backlash.

The Republic is like a Business. You are either part of it, or not. Those who are not - will become '2nd grade citizens'.

So Hang On (by convict shackle & chain) to the British link and the 'employment' it gives you.
Because once Britain 'releases' you ...you're on your own and its a big world out there.

You'll need a very much upgraded and increased military expression for starters.  Wink

Look at it this way. Australia moves towards the USA past.
USA moves towards the Australian past ...and hence why they will be found accountable for their 'International Crimes'.  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Jasin
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #54 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:41pm
 
An Australian 'Republic', as opposed to the USA 'Democracy'
is entirely different to 'Northern Hemisphere' Republics.
Remember that most crucial point.

In the southern hemisphere - Politics is 'people' based. Not 'individual'.
In other words: Politically, in the North - the 'Power' goes to the Leader (Individual). USA - the Political People are sacrificed for the good of the Leader (President) ...and the Artistic 'leader' is sacrificed for the good of the Artistic 'people' (Hippies, whoever).

In the south - the Political Leader is 'sacrificed' for the good of the Political People. Here in Australia, the positions of PM (who serves the USA) and the G-G (who serves the UK) will be the 'sacrifice' (on the Southern Cross<crucifix>) for the Common 'wealth' of the Common 'people'.
The Art industry here would be reverse and the 'power' will go to the Artistic 'leader', at the expense of the 'people'.

It's the same scenario as in Religions. Like what makes the Catholics different to the Protestants and the Orthodox different to the Pagans.

So with Australia as a Republic (a Southern Hemisphere one).
A 'Chairman' would 'Head' the Republic (Asimov worked this all out in his Foundation series) - but he would be the weakest link, for he/she would be representing on behalf of the rest of the World, or the International arena.
It will be the Political 'Parties' that hold the true Power. A Political 'collective' of Power on behalf of Australia 'directly'.

Remember when all the States were one Party and the Federal level was the other Party?
Occassionally the States band together and would 'jilt' the Federal level on behalf of Australia as a priority - not the International community.

So by becoming a Republic - Australia is 'jilting' the International dominance over this country and switching the priority to 'domestic' wellbeing.

In doing this, a lot of International Nations won't like being 'rejected' (Like China, who has the PM making sure that it's products have priority over Australian ...and you've all seen that happen).
It might even result in 'violence'.

So you can continue to be a 'Convict' for the World.
They will feed you, give you a home, etc ...as long as you do 'their' work for them.
Or you can stand up for yourself when the time comes.

Remember Conan the Barbarian. When he was 'released'.
Everything soon changed when the Wolves started coming for him. Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Panther
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #55 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:43pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
Wouldnt they just swear it to the people of Australia?


Which people? Jack has a different opinion to Jim, who has a different opinion to Doris.


Why not just do as they all do in America, from the lowest level public official, all the way up to, & including, the President.....

Military Officer:

Quote:
I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."


Military Enlistee:

Quote:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


President of the USA:

Quote:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


Standard Oath taken by most everyone else that holds a position of public service in America:

Quote:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."



➤ ➤ ➤ Note, these oaths are not taken to support or defend any person, or place, or flag.......they all take an oath to support & defend one thing above all.........to support & defend the US Constitution.

Now, if Australia were to ever become a true Republic, other than in name only, with a government which governs justly at the service of the People, based on powers issued by the People, and a government who's legitimacy and moral right to use State Power is only justified and lawful when consented to by the People or society over which that political power is exercised.

Hopefully this new Republic will have such a Constitution protecting the Unalienable Rights of all the People, one that they all will swear an oath to support & defend, with everything in their power, even with their own lives.


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« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2018 at 5:19pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Live FREE or DIE!
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Jasin
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #56 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 5:32pm
 
Hmmm?
Good input Panther.

Yes - USA is a Political 'business'.

So I do wonder?
Would that make Australia a Political 'People' (Race)?

(Will the Head finally get a 'Body'?)

We all know that Art in the USA is a 'people', more than a Business ...unless it's small Star Wars action figures and a home base called Disneyland - for the 'kiddies'.

Canberra is Australia's premier 'School Excursion' destination.
Maybe the ACT should change its name to 'The Shire', where all the little child-like Hobbits can live?  Cheesy Grin
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #57 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 5:35pm
 
Panther wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Why not just do as they all do in America, from the lowest level public official, all the way up to, & including, the President.....



That wasn't what was proposed.
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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #58 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 5:41pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 5:35pm:
Panther wrote on Mar 20th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Why not just do as they all do in America, from the lowest level public official, all the way up to, & including, the President.....



That wasn't what was proposed.


No, until I proposed it then.....or is the right to free expression, to propose, not in common here?

If not, should I withdraw?


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"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Re: The 'Armed' Republic of Australia
Reply #59 - Mar 20th, 2018 at 5:44pm
 
Two Pyramids.

Pyramid 1. USA

Top (Power) is Politics.
Bottom (Population) is Art


Pyramid 2. Australia

Top (Power) is Art
Bottom (Population) is Politics.

...might explain all the sexual innuendo here on OzPol  Wink Cheesy
(and Barnaby 'the baby maker' Joyce)
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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