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Frank

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #90 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:52am

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 6:51am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2022 at 11:33pm:

How can anyone possibly know that time does not exist in what is loosely termed a black hole?

Actually I should have said that a Black Hole does not possess spacial dimensions, which includes time.

Grammar becomes problematic because there is no “in”.

It all stems from General Relativity - gravitational time dilation. If you have a GPS, it has to take this effect into account.

Here’s a link:

https://profoundphysics.com/why-time-slows-down-near-a-black-hole/

Time and space dimensions are infinitely compressed "in" a black hole. That’s the nearest I can get without delving into the maths.

The density of all black holes is infinite. That’s because a finite mass is compressed to a single point. ( a singularity). It’s difficult to speak of a singularity using normal grammar rules. The only properties of a black hole are its mass, charge and angular momentum. All dimensions, including time are compressed to a zero volume.

This has absolutely nothing to do with atheism. Grin

This is why mathematics is necessary for theories of big bangs and black holes: Ordinary language, sense data and minds built on them cannot 'compute' and comprehend and express them without paradox.

Conversely, mathematics (and black holes and big bangs) lacks explanatory power when it comes to I and Thou.

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Frank

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #91 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:54am

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:48am:

I modified my post while you were posting. (a bad habit of mine). I do other things apart from posting here. I was walking the dog while the post was in limbo. You might like to read it again.

That certain Chinese encyclopedia is even more pertinent to your modified post.
Intuition, what?

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John_Taverner

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #92 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 10:24am

Frank wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:52am:

This is why mathematics is necessary for theories of big bangs and black holes: Ordinary language, sense data and minds built on them cannot 'compute' and comprehend and express them without paradox.

Conversely, mathematics (and black holes and big bangs) lacks explanatory power when it comes to I and Thou.

Thou canst speak for thyself.

I'll let Einstein answer your last point:
Ahem.....Wachet auf Herr Doktor Professor!

Quote:

An enigma presents itself which in all ages has agitated inquiring minds. How can it be that mathematics, being after all a product of human thought which is independent of experience, is so admirably appropriate to the objects of reality? Is human reason, then, without experience, merely by taking thought, able to fathom the properties of real things?

In my opinion the answer to this question is, briefly, this: as far as the propositions of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality

Albert Einstein, 1921

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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2212 Gender:	Re: Atheism Jokes Reply #93 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 10:40am I'll start another thread on mathematics. It might as well be on this forum unless somebody wants to move it.
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issuevoter

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #94 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 11:36am

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

No, but it has parallels to a "faith" in God, when it cannot be explained to anyone other than the "mathematically converted." Metaphors like a bowling ball on a trampoline convey nothing.

Then don't believe what your GPS tells you. Unlike "faith in God", it has been subjected to many challenges and on the whole, most of its predictions have been demonstrated to be valid.

Any new theory (and General Relativity is not new) is beaten to within an inch of its life by scientific challenges, and if it survives that, it's survives as a useful "lie". It works until we can come up with something better. That "something better" may be the unified field theory, because General Relativity breaks down at the subatomic level.

String theory for example, proposes six or seven dimensions of hyperspace in addition to the four common dimensions for a ten- or eleven-dimensional spacetime.

Gravity is a property of mass. It distorts spacetime, which is the reason the Earth orbits the Sun.

For Frank:

Quote:

Until some time ago, it could be regarded as possible that Kant’s system of a priori concepts and norms really could withstand the test of time. This was defensible as long as the content of later science held to be confirmed) did not violate those norms. This case occurred indisputably only with the theory of relativity. However, if one does not want to assert that relativity theory goes against reason, one cannot retain the a priori concepts and norms of Kant’s system.

Albert Einstein

What I was inferring before is that the choice of elements to be designated as a priori is arbitrary and "Kant-centric". A Buddhist for example may choose a different choice of a priori elements which is still consistent with the observed physical system.

I find your posts interesting and well informed, but that is a patronising, if not smug, statement.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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Frank

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #95 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 12:04pm

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 10:24am:

Frank wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:52am:

This is why mathematics is necessary for theories of big bangs and black holes: Ordinary language, sense data and minds built on them cannot 'compute' and comprehend and express them without paradox.

Conversely, mathematics (and black holes and big bangs) lacks explanatory power when it comes to I and Thou.

Thou canst speak for thyself.

I'll let Einstein answer your last point:
Ahem.....Wachet auf Herr Doktor Professor!

Quote:

An enigma presents itself which in all ages has agitated inquiring minds. How can it be that mathematics, being after all a product of human thought which is independent of experience, is so admirably appropriate to the objects of reality? Is human reason, then, without experience, merely by taking thought, able to fathom the properties of real things?

In my opinion the answer to this question is, briefly, this: as far as the propositions of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality

Albert Einstein, 1921

Albert knew his Immanuel:
First of all, we must observe that all proper mathematical judgments are a priori, and not empirical, because they carry with them necessity, which cannot be obtained from experience. But if this be not conceded to me, very good; I shall confine my assertion to pure Mathematics, the very notion of which implies that it contains pure a priori and not empirical cognitions.
...
But it happens fortunately, that though we cannot assume metaphysics to be an actual science, we can say with confidence that certain pure a priori synthetical cognitions, pure Mathematics and pure Physics are actual and given; for both contain propositions, which are thoroughly recognised as apodeictically certain, partly by mere reason, partly by general consent arising from experience, and yet as independent of experience. We have therefore some at least uncontested synthetical knowledge a priori, and need not ask whether it be possible, for it is actual, but how it is possible, in order that we may deduce from the principle which makes the given cognitions possible the possibility of all the rest.

He goes on. I think you would enjoy reading it.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52821/52821-h/52821-h.htm#__RefHeading___Toc3103
KANT'S Prolegomena, although a small book, is indubitably the most important of his writings. It furnishes us with a key to his main work, The Critique of Pure Reason; in fact, it is an extract containing all the salient ideas of Kant's system.

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John_Taverner

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #96 - Sep 4^th, 2022 at 12:09pm

issuevoter wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 11:36am:

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 9:26am:

issuevoter wrote on Sep 4^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

No, but it has parallels to a "faith" in God, when it cannot be explained to anyone other than the "mathematically converted." Metaphors like a bowling ball on a trampoline convey nothing.

Then don't believe what your GPS tells you. Unlike "faith in God", it has been subjected to many challenges and on the whole, most of its predictions have been demonstrated to be valid.

Any new theory (and General Relativity is not new) is beaten to within an inch of its life by scientific challenges, and if it survives that, it's survives as a useful "lie". It works until we can come up with something better. That "something better" may be the unified field theory, because General Relativity breaks down at the subatomic level.

String theory for example, proposes six or seven dimensions of hyperspace in addition to the four common dimensions for a ten- or eleven-dimensional spacetime.

Gravity is a property of mass. It distorts spacetime, which is the reason the Earth orbits the Sun.

For Frank:

Quote:

Until some time ago, it could be regarded as possible that Kant’s system of a priori concepts and norms really could withstand the test of time. This was defensible as long as the content of later science held to be confirmed) did not violate those norms. This case occurred indisputably only with the theory of relativity. However, if one does not want to assert that relativity theory goes against reason, one cannot retain the a priori concepts and norms of Kant’s system.

Albert Einstein

What I was inferring before is that the choice of elements to be designated as a priori is arbitrary and "Kant-centric". A Buddhist for example may choose a different choice of a priori elements which is still consistent with the observed physical system.

I find your posts interesting and well informed, but that is a patronising, if not smug, statement.

It was. The rest of the post doesn't warrant it. I'll remove it.

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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2212 Gender:	Re: Atheism Jokes Reply #97 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:00pm Jasin wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2022 at 7:26pm: Well for the record recently. NASA is in a bit of a confused state. Many are now saying that the Big Bang theory just doesn't click with what they are discovering of late. I just found this video: Neil deGrasse Tyson explains it much better than I can. It is worth watching.
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Jasin

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #98 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 6:44pm

Didn't know wether to laugh or cry with that clip.
Took a full 5 minutes of jive crap to get to the point finally.
Tyson is right regarding the 'observable' universe as we perceive it to be.
Which might be as big as our Planet to the Universe (as we see it) that is wayyyyyy bigger. Parts unknown, so to speak.

Maybe its just me? But I think there is much much more to it than just a Big Bang. Something just doesn't add up.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 52776 Gender:	Re: Atheism Jokes Reply #99 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:07am Here's a good clip about the Big Bang misconception going around. The difference is sublime, Black Holes are not Black or Holes. More like solid Dark Stars. So too is the findings about the Big Bang Theory. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=james+webb+space+telescope&&view=detail&mid...
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #100 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 11:36am

Jasin wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:07am:

Here's a good clip about the Big Bang misconception going around.
The difference is sublime, Black Holes are not Black or Holes. More like solid Dark Stars.

So too is the findings about the Big Bang Theory.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=james+webb+space+telescope&&view=detail&mid...

Can you describe a dimensionless object as solid though?

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes me laugh too, but he's a very smart cookie.

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John_Taverner

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #101 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 2:17pm

OK, back to jokes.

A couple engaged to be married are involved in a fatal car crash and they end up at the Pearly Gates.

The woman asks St Peter - Can we get married in heaven?
St Peter rolls his eyes and scoffs. - I'll be back soon, he says.

Six months later, St Peter returns, apparently exhausted, and says slowly and deliberately - Yes. It seems that you can get married in heaven.

-Oh good says the fiancée, but what if we find that we're not suited to each other. Can we get a divorce?

St Peter turns red - What?! It has taken me a good six months to find a priest up here, and now you want me to find a lawyer!?

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Jasin Gold Member Online Posts: 52776 Gender:	Re: Atheism Jokes Reply #102 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:18pm Good one. Yes Tyson is a smart one. My favourite is Cox though.
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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2212 Gender:	Re: Atheism Jokes Reply #103 - Sep 15^th, 2022 at 7:49am Jasin wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:18pm: Good one. Yes Tyson is a smart one. My favourite is Cox though. Professor Brian Cox. Yes, he'll always be a performer. He handles science communication with ease. I wish I could emulate that skill.
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Frank

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Re: Atheism Jokes
Reply #104 - Sep 15^th, 2022 at 9:12am

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 11:36am:

Jasin wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:07am:

Here's a good clip about the Big Bang misconception going around.
The difference is sublime, Black Holes are not Black or Holes. More like solid Dark Stars.

So too is the findings about the Big Bang Theory.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=james+webb+space+telescope&&view=detail&mid...

Can you describe a dimensionless object as solid though?

Neil deGrasse Tyson makes me laugh too, but he's a very smart cookie.

Never mind solidity - can you describe a dimensionless object as an object?

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