John_Taverner wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 8:24am:



That's a mighty leap from big bang to pianos.  Even for the Leaping Nuns of St Beryl.  The question is about causes and purposes, whether of pianos,  genes or the universe. "The point of it all is to understand reality" doesnt answer questions of cause or purpose.


The language of scientific explanations has distinctly theological tropes and structures and bookends from creation - big bang - to understanding reality - redemption. It cannot avoid it since it is a form of human understanding which cannot comprehend the world without perceiving space, time, causality etc. Purpose is unimaginable without positing a consciousness or anthropomorphising unconscious things (selfish genes). The big bang is as incomprehensible as God: neither has cause, neither took place in time or space, neither's purpose is knowable or discernable. At least God is not totally random, like the big bang.

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 9:45am:


Not accusing at all. It cannot avoid it.


Purpose is an attribute of conscious agency. Genes, sand, galaxies have no purpose in themselves since they have no agency. 
The big bang may not have a purpose as it is not the act of consciousness. But questions about its causes - and all its effects, therefore - can and will still be asked without a satisfactory answer ever being given - because it cannot be given. The mind cannot comprehend the BEFORE of space, time, causality.

Why is there a big bang rather than eternal status quo ante?   Today's word: mystery. A good word, doing a lot of good work.

Why do so many atheists admit that they still 'touch wood' to symbolise warding off bad luck?

Frank wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 10:08am:


There is no Before.

The mind can't comprehend the square root of minus 1 either, but some people, including me, use i regularly.

There are a lot of questions to be answered about the Big Bang, but we can see evidence of it in the Cosmic Background radiation.

John_Taverner wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 1:25pm:


Ah. Did the chicken and the egg get the memo on that?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 12:34pm:


Atheist just means a person who lacks a belief in a God or gods. No further explanation required. Maybe some might say, "Oh but I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in anything supernatural". or "I'm an atheist who likes vegemite on toast". Yes, these are specific types of atheists.

If an atheist believes in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, does that mean that they are no longer an atheist? No, unless somebody starts worshipping the toothfairy as a god.

Atheist is not a very useful term, because "god" itself is ill-defined.

It's more of a virtual badge or sobriquet that they  take pride in wearing.

Frank wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 1:29pm:

Yep.

Was a rhetorical question, but the anxiety of uncertainty haunts us all to the core - as Satres' fear of 'nothingness' lies curled at the heart of our being like a worm.