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Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase (Read 610 times)
juliar
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #15 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:12am
 
The ONLY way to get SUSTAINABLE wage increases is to boost business activity so there is competition for hiring staff.

As wages NEVER fall the current wages are a hangover from the mining boom days and do nor reflect the actual productivity of the workers.

And as always the pathological liar Bull S. is talking with forked tongue thru his false teeth.




Half of Bill Shorten's minimum wage workers are in top 50%
by Jacob Greber Feb 7 2018 at 11:00 PM Updated Feb 8 2018 at 9:40 AM

...
Almost half of the near 7 per cent of workers who take home a low or minimum wage are actually living in the richest half of households. Gabrielle Charotte

Hiking Australia's minimum wage may not just benefit who you think it will - the struggling single-income battler providing for a family.

Almost half of the near 7 per cent of workers who take home a low wage are actually living in the richest half of households.

Analysis provided to The Australian Financial Review by the Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research shows that 13 per cent of workers effectively on minimum wages live in households that enjoy the top 20 per cent of incomes in the nation.

Many are young adults in study, potentially living at home, and primarily aged between 21 and 34 years. Many are women with a secondary income .

...
 
The figures challenge Labor leader Bill Shorten's assertion last week - as he called for a dramatic surge in hourly pay for low income workers - that "the minimum wage is no longer a living wage".

"Our goal should be a real, living wage - effectively raising the pay of all Australians, particularly the 2.3 million who depend upon the minimum rates in the awards," he said.

Business groups and many economists have warned against large hikes in the minimum wage, which is already among the world's highest, saying they will be paid for by companies that will slow hiring, particularly among low-skilled workers, and incentivise businesses to accelerate the replacement of labour with technology.

The Institute's findings undermine the notion that the minimum wage is a "living wage" for most who receive it, and it suggests that relatively few low income earners sit on the bottom rungs of the pay scale forever.

Using Household Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia data on workers receiving no more than 60 per cent of the national median income, the research shows that only 21 per cent are what might be termed "harvester workers" - or those supporting a household on a single, minimum wage.

http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/h/0/v/l/l/3/image.imgtype.afrArticleInline...
 
The term refers to the 1907 Harvester judgment, which determined for the first time in Australia what an unskilled worker needed to keep a wife and three children in "frugal comfort".

The structure of the workforce in 2018 suggests Harvester man is a relative rarity. According to the research, around 20 per cent of low-income workers are the sole source of money in a household with other members.

"The big story - to the extent that there would be wage gains from a decision to increase the minimum wage - is that a lot will be captured by rich households," said Mark Wooden, professor at the Melbourne Institute.

"Almost 44 per cent are in the top half of the income distribution, and only 16 per cent are in the bottom quintile," he said.

...
The figures challenge Labor leader Bill Shorten's assertion last week - as he called for a dramatic surge in hourly pay for low income workers - that "the minimum wage is no longer a living wage". Alex Ellinghausen

"As an anti-poverty measure, this is pretty crude and so unlike what Australia has been doing for the last 50 years.

"We've got a highly targeted tax and transfer system - some say the most targeted in the world - with our income means testing. We make sure our income support goes to the people in need."

"This would be the opposite of that; a highly untargetted scheme whereby a lot of the benefits won't go to very poor households - and that's assuming there are benefits and that you keep the job and your hours worked won't be affected as a result of the increase in the minimum wage."

...
"As an anti-poverty measure, this is pretty crude and so unlike what Australia has been doing for the last 50 years."


http://www.afr.com/news/economy/half-of-bill-shortens-minimum-wage-workers-are-i...
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whiteknight
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #16 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:18am
 
The Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) secretary Sally McManus acknowledges a $50-a-week increase would be substantial but argues it is necessary.

    "That will be a significant amount to help people deal with the cost of living increases because at the moment working families are struggling to pay the bills," Ms McManus said.

Ms McManus also noted many people on the minimum wage work in retail and hospitality.

"These are exactly the same people who are facing a penalty rates pay cut on the 1st of July as well," she said.   Sad
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RightSaidFred
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #17 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:26am
 
cods wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:08am:
miketrees wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:57am:
people on fixed income   have nothing to bargain with mike   ......  next crook will be wanting $50 more  for those on the dole..

Yes I appreciate that.

Like nurses, they can only trade away their conditions once.

I am just setting one circumstance thats constant.
Money has to come from somewhere.

I think our real chance at productivity gain is to get better managers,, not the sort of bullying arseholes that try and pretend they are good managers.

In my last company (Quintis which is in administration) I was able to see two managers working close hand.

Bob was absolutely brilliant, had a happy well managed team and they were very productive.

Geoff was an arsehole who was just a bully, productivity zero, turnover huge.

The higher managers were also to blame for not seeing it.

The bully arsehole managers were dotted all through the business,,, the main reason they are broke.




unhappy employees   never produce do they....

and good men lose their jobs because of bad management......I guess you can say the same thing about these forums......where good debaters and interesting people get lost because of the bullies..who can we blame do you think?..... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I think in the case you mention the managers did see it.. they were told I believe  just too weak to stop it.....

one small comfort.. the bully will also be unemployed..


My father's construction company paid well above award to attract the harder workers. He actually said to his employees he expect hard work if you don't like I can pay award wages.

If you want people to be more productive you need to do more than just pay them more. In my current job I have been given a whole lot training I never asked for and I sent all over the place working on a variety of projects / clients around the world. Suits me many don't like the travel..... horses for courses etc....

At the bottom end its tougher paying minimum wages will mean minimum effort ..... for a small business it can be very challenging to keep staff or motivate them. Even medium to large organisations struggle in this area with bigger budgets.
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juliar
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #18 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:29am
 
Heavens! The reclusive inarticulate GetUp! inspired BlackDay furtively peeps out of the Dark Side to mutter some inanities.

Now the AMM shoves BlackDay back into his weird world of Lefty delusion.



Union push for $50 more per week!
AMM 13/03/2018

Funny how we are constantly reminded that the way we live, work, trade and think is global.

Funny how the unions have never understood that, unless it favours what they want.

The ACTU chose the pipsqueak Sally McManus as secretary as defender for the lemmings.

McManus should do some homework about how to NOT push Australia over the cliff via union greed.

Greed is good thinks the clown like McManus who have zero conception of what causes hardship.

Cheaper labour costs on the global market. To begin with just one example, we wonder if McManus even knows the union greed has sent all Australian auto manufacturing off shore. The fool might also compare comparable wages.

Unions will push for a record $50-a-week pay rise for the nation’s lowest-paid, more than double the amount awarded last year.
ACTU secretary Sally McManus has declared a big increase is needed to address low wages growth, penalty-rate cuts and rising living costs.

In the biggest one-off dollar-terms rise sought to the national minimum wage, the ACTU will urge the Fair Work Commission today to increase the rate from $694.90 to $744.90 a week, equivalent to a 7.2% rise that unions will seek to flow on to an estimated 2.3 million workers.


Unions in push for $50-a-week minimum pay rise
Source: News Corp

Employers warned granting the “extraordinary, ambit” claim would force small businesses to lay off employees and reduce trading hours. Business groups will seek to limit the increase to $12.50 to $13.20 a week.

Awarding the ACTU claim would lift the national minimum wage’s hourly rate from $18.29 to $19.60, or by $2600 annually to $38,735 a year. The commission last year awarded a $22.20-a-week rise, equivalent to a 3.3 % increase, the largest minimum wage rise in dollar terms since 2010. According to the ACTU submission, applying the 7.2% rise would lead to some award-reliant workers receiving weekly increases ranging from $55.14 to $84.39.

Ms McManus said the claim was part of the union movement’s long-term strategy to bring the minimum wage up to 60 per cent of the median wage.

...

“With record low wages growth holding us back, penalty-rate cuts kicking in and bills and rent rising faster than ever, there has never been a better time for a big pay rise for Australians,’’ Ms McManus said.

“People should not work full-time and struggle to pay for the ­basics of life. We need to restore a living wage. Low wages growth is pushing our economy off course. It’s not just working people saying that, the Reserve Bank and Treasurer Scott Morrison agree.”

Australian Industry Group chief executive Innes Willox said the commission needed to take a cautious approach and limit this year’s increase to $12.50 a week, or 1.8%.

“Australia already has one of the highest national minimum wage rates in the world, and most Australian workers are entitled to award-wage rates that are higher than the national minimum wage,’’ Mr Willox said.

“Currently, background inflation in Australia is weak and this means that a smaller minimum wage increase will generate real wage increases for workers, ­including those in low-wage jobs. Now is not the time to take risks with minimum wage setting.”

Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chief executive James Pearson said small business could afford a maximum $13.20-a-week rise, equivalent to 1.9 per cent, and higher than the 1.2 per cent argued for by the chamber last year.

Mr Pearson said that although there were signs the economy was picking up, the outlook was patchy and many award-reliant small businesses were struggling. The ACTU claim would risk small business and jobs, he said, noting that the commission had awarded eight consecutive above-inflation increases to the minimum wage.

“Let think about the local newsagency,’’ he said. “If they are faced with that sort of increase in their wages bill, what are they likely to do? They might have to let people go, they might have to close the shop down for a couple of hours a day if they can afford to.

“At the end of the day, small businesses will close their doors or let people go, and that’s the folly of the ACTU claim. It ignores the ­capacity of small business, who overwhelmingly have their wages determined by the Fair Work Commission, to pay.”

Mr Willox said last year’s 3.3 per cent rise was “exceptionally high”, and an excessive increase this year would reduce the job ­security of low-paid workers and lessen job opportunities for the ­unemployed and underemployed.

“Despite some improvements in GDP and employment growth, national disposable income growth remains weak … Businesses are under pressure. Steep ­energy price rises are proving difficult to pass on to customers and are squeezing margins across a wide range of industries. Also, productivity growth has been exceedingly weak over the past decade and over the current productivity growth cycle.”

Read this slam dunking of the destructive Lefty drongos here

http://morningmail.org/union-push-50-per-week/#more-77899
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juliar
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #19 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:30am
 
Now to really make the Lefties' day some COMMENTS from real fair dinkum people.


TommyGun 13/03/2018, 7:48 am
The moron unionists just don’t “get” it, do they?
Higher wages feed inflation, which causes price rises of goods and services, which lead to…demands by the Unions for higher wages! Duh!

On top of that, an 8 year-old could see that Australians enjoying luxury wages for process work will lead to manufacturing jobs being exported to countries with low wages (China, anyone?) not to mention an flood of immigrants to Australia expecting to be paid high salaries for menial jobs.

Unions ought to be simply made illegal.


Penguinite 13/03/2018, 7:59 am
Of course Unions will push for huge increases in the minimum wage< especially when they are on a recruitment drive! 54% of median wage is grotesque! already.


Lorraine 13/03/2018, 8:08 am
ACTU and Unions are The real Problem as they supported the carbon Tax that sent all car manufacturing to the wall and many other Industries off shore,now they want Mum and Dad business’s that are not Union members to go out of business as well. Is the ACTU going to push $50,00 per week for the pensioner , sorry No not a Union member, not a public servant, we care not for your lot


Albert 13/03/2018, 8:55 am
We presently use the demise of the motor vehicle industry to illustrate how and why manufacturing in Australia is criminally depleted due to union demands but don’t expect union bloodsuckers like McManus to understand that.

When this country finally becomes Paul Keating’s Banana Republic it will be at the hands of unions and corporate greed. If the government had any backbone at all it would be legislating to reduce the influence of criminal unions such as the CFMEU and others, even to the point of deregistration.


Biking Voter 13/03/2018, 9:03 am
McAnus should learn to live within her income parameters, like most Australians have to. She is too stupid to see that an unfettered income rise will also unleash an unfettered rise in everything else that everyone will have to pay, including all that didn’t get her $50 demand.

It’s not low wages growth pushing our economy off course, it’s the greed from corporations and stupidity from governments pushing people to try and make ends meet.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #20 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:40am
 
How exactly do you go about boosting business productivity when business itself is degenerating into paper pushing without solid production, and striving to employ fewer people whose income would feed their market?

It's called shooting yourself in the foot.

Tommy Gun - higher costs of living feed inflation long before wages come into it. - current 'business' models seeking massive incomes for the top dogs are the prime cause of rising costs of living along with the failed 'privatisation' scams.  When you can reduce costs of living - then we'll talk.  What are your suggestions there?  Jump on a few CEO's and board members and ban them?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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juliar
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #21 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:57am
 
The Grappler is grappling with the Socialist Lefty idea of spiraling endlessly inward with no tangible solution in sight.

On the LITE SIDE away from the DARK SIDE where the Lefties lurk Mal has been getting Trumpy on side to remove tariffs from our steel and aluminium exports and generally boosting business and exports to increase the wealth in the Australian economy.
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miketrees
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #22 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 11:07am
 


Well if you are old enough to remember the pointless wage rise inflation, wage rise inflation of the past,,, you will understand why some of us are wary.
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #23 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 12:30pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 5:58am:
Its not actually outrageous but they know they arent going to get it is why they are starting so high.

Spot

Correct. It's an ambit claim, based on what they consider to be reasonable grounds. Business groups do the same with their low offer.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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juliar
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #24 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:22pm
 
While the DARK SIDE tries to justify the clearly unjustifiable let's see some actual facts for a change.

The best summary on the unions push for $50 a week.




Spare us excuses for a wage lift. Here we go again.
Judith Sloan The Australian 12:00AM March 13, 2018

...
ACTU feminazi Sally McManus.

The Australian Council of Trade Unions puts in a ridiculous pay claim to raise the minimum wage (and other award wages).

The employers make the entirely legitimate point that the claim is unaffordable and will cost jobs.

The extraordinarily well-paid members of the Fair Work Commission wade through the various submissions, have a few rounds of public hearings and put out an intensely turgid statement outlining the reasons for the decision a few months later.

It is one of the banes of my existence to plough through these reasons for the decision. They remind me of a mediocre undergraduate essay in which the author is way too keen to argue a particular point, trying to refute or ignore contradictory evidence.

To be frank, I would much prefer the top-down regulators at the FWC, who think they can interfere with the market at no cost, simply tell us what the increase is and the date from which it will apply. Spare us the lame rationales.

This time around, the ACTU with “look-at-moi” Sally McManus now at the helm, is going for broke. She wants the national minimum wage to be set at 60 per cent of the median wage — up from the 54 per cent now.

She wants the minimum wage to be raised $50 a week (the increase last year was $22 a week) and all other award wages to be raised in tandem by 7.2 per cent.

I’m very inclined to tell her she’s dreamin’, but who knows how the vacillating activists at the FWC will respond to the claim.


Now in the past, the FWC has been none too impressed by this type of claim because there is no known reason why 60 per cent of the median wage is the correct figure. There has been no assessment of the likely costs and benefits associated with such a massive increase in the minimum wage that this higher percentage would necessarily entail.

Mind you, if last year’s minimum wage decision is any guide, the FWC is heading in a distinct Santa Claus direction, making the extraordinary claim that they had been too modest and needed to step up to the plate. Recall that they awarded a 3.3 per cent rise last year, more than 50 per cent above the inflation rate.

But what I just love about the FWC is its ability to hold contradictory positions within the same decision. Last year, it concluded that “modest and regular wage increases do not result in disemployment effects. The research also suggests that the panel’s past assessment of what constitutes a ‘modest’ increase may have been overly cautious, in terms of its assessed disemployment effects.”

But a few pages later, it says “to grant an increase to the minimum wage of the size necessary to immediately lift all full-time workers out of poverty is likely to have adverse employment effects on those groups who are already marginalised in the labour market, with a corresponding impact on the vulnerability of households to poverty due to loss of employment or hours”.

That’s right — it’s only the Goldilocks increase in the minimum wage that’s OK; anything too large would be bad. But let’s not forget that Goldilocks is make-believe.

This time around, some of the reasons the FWC would normally use to justify its decision will add a bit of complexity to the argument. Productivity, for instance, has tanked in the past 12 months. And let’s not get too worked up about employment growth — average hours per employed person have been falling for some time.

And then there is the damning Seattle study that has shown conclusively that lifting the minimum wage significantly has a very detrimental effect on the employment and work hours of the low-paid workers, particularly those who work in small business.

Here’s the thing about low wage growth: it is an international phenomenon. In Australia’s case, low wage growth has been associated with relatively strong labour-market conditions, and that’s a good thing. The only way sustainably to increase wages is for productivity to grow; whatever way you cut those figures, we are doing badly on that score.

Until productivity rises at the firm level and in all industries, we should not expect much to change. In this context, pushing up regulated wages is always a very dangerous pursuit, even if it is paved with good intentions.


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/judith-sloan/until-productiv...
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Dnarever
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #25 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:30pm
 
RightSaidFred wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:42am:
Cereal Killer wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:20am:
juliar wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 6:49am:
There is no doubt the Chinese are paying the corrupt unions to use their extortion and sabotage to force Australian industry to close.

The corrupt union push to increase wages for no valid reason whatsoever bears NO relation to the productivity of the workers and is specifically designed to make Australian business uncompetitive with respect to their overseas competitors and to force them to close so the work goes to China.

Of course the GetUp! inspired BlackDay continues with his mindless gloom and doom and blindly parrots the red rag rubbish.

Wages will increase due to supply and demand when business picks up and there is increased competition for hiring staff.


Mate was that TL;DR or something? Or are you so hard right that ScoMo is a leftist to you? Or haven't you noticed that a lot on the right wing are starting to admit "low wages growth is pushing our economy off course".


So you think artificially attempting to raise them works how ?
Most wages are determined by supply and demand increasing minimum wage while might be noble just drives up costs not wages, it only relates to people on minimum award wages, I think I was on award at one job I had at uni...... 7-11 grave yard shift ... about 30+ years.

Not for it or against it but it needs to be sustainable $50 / week looks OTT but let the experts work it out. As suggested the real figure might be a lot less that they really want.


Supply and demand only works in year 9 economics. It hasen't impacted wages in 5 decades.
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Dnarever
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #26 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:32pm
 
Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase

They would probably accept $48.
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Dnarever
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #27 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:33pm
 
whiteknight wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 6:04am:
The peak employer group is calling for below-inflation pay rise of just $12.50 per week, arguing businesses are under pressure.   Tongue


Yes business is under pressure - it is difficult to count all that money.
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #28 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 7:53pm
 
looks like coalition supporters are supporting a $50 drop in minimum wage instead.  just to help the businesses remain poorly managed.
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Re: Unions Push For $50 A Week Minimum Wage Increase
Reply #29 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 8:05pm
 
Cost of living is skyrocketing , we were all promised 550 bucks back in 2013 instead we got a humongous rise in power and gas prices , these libtards are u s e l e s s
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JuLiars prediction Mar 8 2017
Trend is for Labor to go down the drain'
Labor win WA, QLD,VIC,ACT,NT Smiley
 
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