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One God, Many Gods (Read 4390 times)
The_Barnacle
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #15 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:23am
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 3:34am:
Nom de Plume wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 1:03am:
Setanta wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 12:19am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 8:19pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 4:51pm:
Jasin wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
Believe in the One God and you shall breed in your millions!

Believe in the Many Gods and you shall become 'unique'.

Wink


Have no belief in any of them? What then?


What if you believe that the universe is just a wonderfully complex machine. No guiding hand, no meaning, no goal. We just have to make the best of it we can.


Who built this wonderfully complex machine?

The thing is I don't care who built it, whether it be a god, two branes colliding. I don't believe any of the self centred, cruel, demanding, psychopathic gods man has come up with as a viable "god". If there is a god he is not a mirror of the worst of mankind and if he is I have no desire to worship him.

I'm happy not to care "how" we got here and I'm more than happy to play my part in making it place to enjoy while we can. Unfortunately we have the botherers of psychopathic gods to deal with.



What, or who built it and why are beyond our understanding assuming it was built in the first place... which is why science does not ask why, rather, science asks how it was built.


How would we know unless "it" shows it's self or is explainable via science? That statement is kinda circular. You have a definitive "beyond our understanding". It was built in some fashion, it has not always existed. That leaves us with divining the explanation of it's existence and you say it is beyond our understanding, I don't know how you could make that claim. We understand lightening, the old Norse could have too with enough knowledge but it was Thor to them, magic, not understandable. In brain power, we are no different to them, the thing that divides us is knowledge.



Perhaps a more accurate sentence would be

What, or who built it and why are beyond our current understanding assuming it was built in the first place...

All through history there has been phenomena and occurrences which mankind didn't understand at the time and so attributed to a deity. One by One they have been explained by science and the superstition has been (mostly) banished.
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #16 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 12:25pm
 
Pretty sure 'Dinosaur' Bones and Fossils were discovered long ago and along with 'footprints' - the belief of 'Dragons' emerged. Wink

Even now, Science and its 'Theories' is just another 'guestimation' of the Universe.
eg: Multi-Universes, Black Holes to another Dimension, etc.
All no different to 5th century peoples finding a T-Rex skull in the rock and believing Dragons are around.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #17 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 12:43pm
 
Probably the stupidest concept associated with the God of Abraham is that He will do bad things to you if you don't do as He says. Its has all the pettiness of Human creations. Daddy's going to get the strap out, you bad child. Those dirty bastards who died having screwed people all their lives don't pay for their sins, they got off scott-free.

Now don't even bother to respond with my interpretation of the God of Abraham is wrong. Its been the same stuff thousands of years.
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #18 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 3:36pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

Probably the stupidest concept associated with the God of Abraham is that

He will do bad things to you if you don't do as He says.

Its has all the pettiness of Human creations. Daddy's going to get the strap out, you bad child. Those dirty bastards who died having screwed people all their lives don't pay for their sins, they got off scott-free.



Now don't even bother to respond with my interpretation of the God of Abraham is wrong. Its been the same stuff thousands of years.



I can't let that stand without a response.       Angry



It is not, 'He will do bad things to you       if you don't do as He says.'

But rather, 'Don't do what you know is evil,        if you want my favour.'


And many verses in scripture adequately attest to that stance,
by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,       towards men.

e.g.
Scripture plainly attests, that in the judgement, being a Jewish person, or being a church attending Christian,
counts for    zero    with God.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



Rather, the God of scripture, states time and time again,

that he will have respect towards those who are fair, and righteous, in their dealings with their fellow man.


Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.


Leviticus 19:15
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.


Deuteronomy 1:17
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.


Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.


Deuteronomy 16:18
Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment.
19  Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.


2 Chronicles 19:6
And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.
7  Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.


Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.


Isaiah 1:17
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.


Isaiah 48:17
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18  O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:


Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood....


Jeremiah 9:24
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.


Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


.


Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7  Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

....which was also Jesus message to the men of his time.



And lots, lots more.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Bobby.
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #19 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 5:19pm
 
Here is a list of 1000s of Gods:

https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_big_list_of_gods_but_nowhere_near_all_of_th...


The crew of star trek met Apollo - a Greek God who spoke English well:



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Setanta
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #20 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:19pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 5:19pm:
Here is a list of 1000s of Gods:

https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_big_list_of_gods_but_nowhere_near_all_of_th...


The crew of star trek met Apollo - a Greek God who spoke English well:





Yet monotheists hold a belief for all of them, that they do not exist bar one. Imagine how many beliefs monotheists have believing they don't exist.  Undecided Mind boggling.

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Bobby.
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #21 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:29pm
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:19pm:
Yet monotheists hold a belief for all of them, that they do not exist bar one. Imagine how many beliefs monotheists have believing they don't exist.  Undecided Mind boggling.




"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
       ...Stephen F Roberts


http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php
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issuevoter
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #22 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 9:17pm
 
Yadda wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 3:36pm:
issuevoter wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

Probably the stupidest concept associated with the God of Abraham is that

He will do bad things to you if you don't do as He says.

Its has all the pettiness of Human creations. Daddy's going to get the strap out, you bad child. Those dirty bastards who died having screwed people all their lives don't pay for their sins, they got off scott-free.



Now don't even bother to respond with my interpretation of the God of Abraham is wrong. Its been the same stuff thousands of years.



I can't let that stand without a response.       Angry



It is not, 'He will do bad things to you       if you don't do as He says.'

But rather, 'Don't do what you know is evil,        if you want my favour.'


And many verses in scripture adequately attest to that stance,
by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,       towards men.

e.g.
Scripture plainly attests, that in the judgement, being a Jewish person, or being a church attending Christian,
counts for    zero    with God.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



Rather, the God of scripture, states time and time again,

that he will have respect towards those who are fair, and righteous, in their dealings with their fellow man.


Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.


Leviticus 19:15
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.


Deuteronomy 1:17
Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.


Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.


Deuteronomy 16:18
Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment.
19  Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.


2 Chronicles 19:6
And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.
7  Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.


Psalms 34:14
Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.


Isaiah 1:17
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.


Isaiah 48:17
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
18  O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:


Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood....


Jeremiah 9:24
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Romans 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.


Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


.


Isaiah 55:6
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7  Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

....which was also Jesus message to the men of his time.



And lots, lots more.




Oh here we go. Another bloody sermon from one of the forum's religious ratbags. Quote - Blah, blah, blah. Gobbledegook 3 verse 7. Why don't you grow up and take responsibility for your own interpretation of reality instead of hiding behind other people's ideas?
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Setanta
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #23 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:16pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:29pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:19pm:
Yet monotheists hold a belief for all of them, that they do not exist bar one. Imagine how many beliefs monotheists have believing they don't exist.  Undecided Mind boggling.




"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
       ...Stephen F Roberts


http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php


Pretty much the point I keep trying to make but it's always "atheism is a belief that there is no god". In my case it's a disbelief in all gods man has come up with.
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Bobby.
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #24 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:29pm
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:29pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 8:19pm:
Yet monotheists hold a belief for all of them, that they do not exist bar one. Imagine how many beliefs monotheists have believing they don't exist.  Undecided Mind boggling.




"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
       ...Stephen F Roberts


http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php


Pretty much the point I keep trying to make but it's always "atheism is a belief that there is no god". In my case it's a disbelief in all gods man has come up with.



But will Saint Peter let you in?





Led Zeppelin - In My Time of Dying - 1975 Earls Court
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Yadda
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #25 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:46pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 9:17pm:

Oh here we go. Another bloody sermon from one of the forum's religious ratbags. Quote - Blah, blah, blah. Gobbledegook 3 verse 7. Why don't you grow up and take responsibility for your own interpretation of reality instead of hiding behind other people's ideas?



issue,

You do to hold very inconsistent and contradictory views, about God, and about bad men.

But i doubt that you are able to recognise that fact.


FOR INSTANCE....
You firstly castigate God, because [you claim] that He demands [with threats], our obedience.

And you secondly, also claim to be 'upset' about those men who have 'screwed people all their lives'.



issuevoter wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 12:43pm:

Probably the stupidest concept associated with the God of Abraham is that

He will do bad things to you if you don't do as He says.

Its has all the pettiness of Human creations. Daddy's going to get the strap out, you bad child. Those dirty bastards who died having screwed people all their lives don't pay for their sins, they got off scott-free.



Now don't even bother to respond with my interpretation of the God of Abraham is wrong. Its been the same stuff thousands of years.



issue,

We are told [in scripture] that we should not disrespect God.

You did.

But do tell us all issue, has God struck you down, for disrespecting Him in your post ?

No.

Because the truth is, while God condemns wrongdoing in man, God gives you [and all men] freewill,
to be able to choose how they behave.



BUT LETS GET BACK TO THOSE INCONSISTENT AND CONTRADICTORY VIEWS OF YOURS...
You claim to be 'upset' about those who have 'screwed people all their lives'.
[which presupposes that you yourself too, condemn 'bad men', for their wrongdoing]

And then you castigate me, for posting scripture which proves that God [our creator] also condemns wrongdoing in men,
and calls on mankind to behave fairly and righteously, towards their fellow man.

And, the scripture which shows, that God condemns those men who do not behave fairly, towards their fellow man.

i.e.
You castigate the 'bully' God of the bible [for condemning wrongdoers],
while the scripture of the bible, proves that God, condemns the very same people, that you claim to condemn.


Cognitive dissonance.





Quote:
Cognitive dissonance

Cognitive dissonance is         a psychological term to define the condition that results

whenever an individual attempts to hold two incompatible, if not contradictory, thoughts at the same time

even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance


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« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:51pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #26 - Mar 18th, 2018 at 3:34am
 
Hard to know who is the least capable of 'thinking' for themselves - Yadda or It_is_the_Light??  Huh

Both just 'recycle' other people's material like a pair of 'Replicants' from the movie Bladerunner.  Tongue
(while having their legs humped by Bobby)

Both rely on stuff that if they were 'boats', Yadda's would be so old and primitive it would sink from all the holes in it.
It_is_the_Light's boat would be 'new' age, but shaped and designed like a Copper Pyramid where Hindu clichés make for the impression that he actually 'knows' something  Roll Eyes
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #27 - Mar 18th, 2018 at 12:06pm
 
Jasin wrote on Mar 18th, 2018 at 3:34am:
Hard to know who is the least capable of 'thinking' for themselves - Yadda or It_is_the_Light??  Huh

Both just 'recycle' other people's material like a pair of 'Replicants' from the movie Bladerunner.  Tongue
(while having their legs humped by Bobby)

Both rely on stuff that if they were 'boats', Yadda's would be so old and primitive it would sink from all the holes in it.
It_is_the_Light's boat would be 'new' age, but shaped and designed like a Copper Pyramid where Hindu clichés make for the impression that he actually 'knows' something  Roll Eyes




forgiven

namaste   
  रति

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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #28 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 2:54am
 
Jasin wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
Believe in the One God and you shall breed in your millions!

Believe in the Many Gods and you shall become 'unique'.

Wink


The Jews had it both ways. Elohim is one of the names for god. Thing is Elohim is plural.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Re: One God, Many Gods
Reply #29 - Dec 10th, 2023 at 4:55pm
 
This Topic was moved here from Atheism by freediver.
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