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Two Years for removing head scarf (Read 5408 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #30 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:28am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:56pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:54pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:49pm:
issuevoter wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
Islam is an absolute patriarchal culture. Woman are controlled and owned by males, almost like cattle.


Never met any Muslim women, have you?   Tsk, tsk.  What a shame.   Most of them rule their homes quite well, without any input from the men.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


It's still true. Islam is indeed a patriarchal religion. I can't think of a more patriarchal belief system, can you?


hinduism? Judaism? The gospel of Paul?


Judaism yes, but not Hinduism and not Christianity. The Hindus have a number of female gods. The church has the Virgin Mary.

Theravadan Buddhism maybe, but even they allow nuns in. The Mahayanas have Quan Yin and other female deities.


Islam has the virgin mary too you know. Islamic tradition tells that when Muhammad retook Mecca and reclaimed the Kabah for Islam, he emptied it of all idol figurines except for one - the virgin mary.

Muhammad's first wife was a leading merchant, who proposed to Muhammad. She was the one who convinced Muhammad he was not going mad when he first heard the angel Gabriel, and urged him to continue reciting the revelation.

Islam also has Aisha - wife of the Prophet, who became a renowned scholar and leader in early Islam.


All true, but none are deities in Islam. The Virgin Mary is hardly a feminist icon, I know, but she's a point of identification for women in the Catholic church.

The church is very female-centred. It might be managed by men, but the flock is largely female. This is true of Catholic and protestant churches.

This is quite different for those who attend mosques. Mosques cater primarily for men, if not exclusively. Women stay at home and look after the kids. What formal spaces exist for women in Islam?
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freediver
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #31 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 12:50pm
 
Muhammad started his career by marrying a rich, independent woman, then went on to create a religion and society that places women below men (though the Muslim ones are at least above, Christians and Jews, who are again above Pagans. Muhammad transformed society from all these different groups coexisting as equals, to a highly stratified society gradually exterminating the lower rungs.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #32 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 1:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 12:50pm:
Muhammad started his career by marrying a rich, independent woman, then went on to create a religion and society that places women below men.


Muhammed inherited a society that placed women below men. I can't think of any other religion or traditional society that didn't.

Consider those harmless Buddhists. The Buddha initially held off taking female students. He finally acquiesced to accept his mother. When he did, he predicted that Buddhism would die out earlier as a result of allowing nuns.

Buddhist nuns have more than double the amount of rules men have, and always less power in the hierarchy. Buddhism is inherently patriarchal. It's changing a bit today through the influence of westerners.

The same can't be said of Islam, but that's your problem with Islam, no? It has no Western control.

For a devout Eurocentric, this troubles you. 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #33 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:32pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:28am:
Women stay at home and look after the kids. What formal spaces exist for women in Islam?


All mosques I've seen have dedicated space for women. Though its true that some mosques are too small and come Friday prayer time, there is not enough room for both sexes, and yes the women's space caters for the spillover of men. Orthodox Islamic teaching says that friday prayer is only compulsory for men, though women are not barred.

Personally I don't like segregation in the mosque. I would prefer everyone prays together.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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issuevoter
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #34 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 12:50pm:
Muhammad started his career by marrying a rich, independent woman, then went on to create a religion and society that places women below men (though the Muslim ones are at least above, Christians and Jews, who are again above Pagans. Muhammad transformed society from all these different groups coexisting as equals, to a highly stratified society gradually exterminating the lower rungs.


I don't know about that, I reckon the Pagans got a bad rap based on propaganda from all those bloody know-all monotheist fanatics.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #35 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:37pm
 
Gordon wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 7:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Gordon wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 3:00pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:46am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:44am:
Shame the Persians can't reach some happy medium: I recently heard an interview of an Iranian ex-pat whose father was a policeman during the Shah era. Part of his job was to force women to remove their headscarves.


I think that's what FD wants policemen to do here.

For some reason, he won't say.


I think we just want immigrants who value secularism and reject the head scarf all together.


Ah, then we don't want Ultra-Orthodox Jews or Ultra-Orthodox Christians, right, Gordie?   Roll Eyes


No, we don't. What on earth makes you think I'd want any flavour of fundy?


So, you're persecute people 'cause they wear clothing other than you like?   My, how interesting.   So, do you like women who wear bikinis, Gordie?   Roll Eyes


Idiot


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Resorting to argument ad hominem, Gordie?  Tsk, tsk.  Whats wrong, unable to answer the question?  A simple yes or now will suffice.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #36 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:28am:
Women stay at home and look after the kids. What formal spaces exist for women in Islam?


All mosques I've seen have dedicated space for women. Though its true that some mosques are too small and come Friday prayer time, there is not enough room for both sexes, and yes the women's space caters for the spillover of men. Orthodox Islamic teaching says that friday prayer is only compulsory for men, though women are not barred.

Personally I don't like segregation in the mosque. I would prefer everyone prays together.


Having separate spaces is fine, as long as everyone's catered for. Every yoga/meditation retreat I've been on has separate sides of the hall for men and women.

It's when women are excluded there's a problem.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #37 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:56pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:38pm:
Having separate spaces is fine, as long as everyone's catered for


Not necessarily. Segregating the sexes for events specifically promoted as family events is not ok. When you have 3 small kids, it is not reasonable to dump them all on the mother because the man has to sit away from her.

It is also not ok when the women's space is at the very back of the room, or worse, in a separate room from the main event entirely.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #38 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:20pm
 
Quote:
All mosques I've seen have dedicated space for women.


Mosques have kitchens?
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #39 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
Quote:
All mosques I've seen have dedicated space for women.


Mosques have kitchens?


Did you think that Muslim men can turn on a stove when they spend most of their time either "head-on-mat" or stoning females who won't cook for them?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #40 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:48pm
 
Sam Morris wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:26pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 7:20pm:
Quote:
All mosques I've seen have dedicated space for women.


Mosques have kitchens?


Did you think that Muslim men can turn on a stove when they spend most of their time either "head-on-mat" or stoning females who won't cook for them?


Good point, Matty.

Stone them.
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Frank
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #41 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:02pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
So, you're persecute people 'cause they wear clothing other than you like?   My, how interesting.   So, do you like women who wear bikinis, Gordie?   Roll Eyes



Is that the only difference, idiot? Are Muslims just like Christians, Jews, atheists, Catholics, agnostics, Sikhs, gays, lesbians, bikies, druggies, Abos, goths, Lacanians - they just wear different clothes??


Gweggy McTurd is beginning to look like a lucid intellect compared to you!!!!
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« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:24pm by Frank »  

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #42 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:10pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:02pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
So, you're persecute people 'cause they wear clothing other than you like?   My, how interesting.   So, do you like women who wear bikinis, Gordie?   Roll Eyes



Is that the only difference, idiot? Are Muslims just like Christians, Jews, atheists, Catholics, agnostics, Sikhs, gays, lesbians, bikies, druggies, Abos, goths  - they just wear different clothes??


Gweggy McTurd is beginning to look like a lucid intellect compared to you!!!!


Lacanians?
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Frank
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #43 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:26pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:10pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:02pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
So, you're persecute people 'cause they wear clothing other than you like?   My, how interesting.   So, do you like women who wear bikinis, Gordie?   Roll Eyes



Is that the only difference, idiot? Are Muslims just like Christians, Jews, atheists, Catholics, agnostics, Sikhs, gays, lesbians, bikies, druggies, Abos, goths  - they just wear different clothes??


Gweggy McTurd is beginning to look like a lucid intellect compared to you!!!!


Lacanians?

Thank you for missing the point, as always, shite head. Amended. What idiocy do you want to profess now?


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1520458573/41#41
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Brian Ross
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Re: Two Years for removing head scarf
Reply #44 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:44pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 9th, 2018 at 9:02pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
So, you're persecute people 'cause they wear clothing other than you like?   My, how interesting.   So, do you like women who wear bikinis, Gordie?   Roll Eyes


Is that the only difference, idiot? Are Muslims just like Christians, Jews, atheists, Catholics, agnostics, Sikhs, gays, lesbians, bikies, druggies, Abos, goths, Lacanians - they just wear different clothes??


Well. externally it is what you appear to react to first.   Roll Eyes


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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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