Australian Politics Forum - Quran demands violence to impose Islam

freediver

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Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:35am

Another display of hypocrisy from Brian. When presented with verses 8:39 and 2:193 as examples of the Quran instructing Muslims to use violence to spread religion, Brian defended the verses, saying he though they were OK, and accused me of taking out of context and also misquoting. The two verses are pretty much identical. Here is 8:139, with the surrounding verses. It even contains instructions on dividing up the spoils of war.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=39

Mohsin Khan:

34 And why should not Allah punish them while they stop (men) from Al-Masjid-al-Haram, and they are not its guardians? None can be its guardian except Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2), but most of them know not.

35 Their Salat (prayer) at the House (of Allah, i.e. the Ka'bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. Therefore taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve.

36 Verily, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend it; but in the end it will become an anguish for them. Then they will be overcomed. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto Hell.

37 In order that Allah may distinguish the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) from the good (believers of Islamic Monotheism and doers of righteous deeds), and put the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) one on another, heap them together and cast them into Hell. Those! it is they who are the losers.

38 Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).

39 And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Maula (Patron, Lord, Protector and Supporter, etc.), (what) an Excellent Maula, and (what) an Excellent Helper!

41 Know that whatever property you may gain, one fifth belongs to God, the Messenger, the kindred, orphans, the needy and those who need money while on a journey. (This is the law) if you believe in God and what We revealed to Our Servant on the Day of Distinction (Badr) when the armies confronted each other. God has power over all things.

Verse 2:193

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=193

Mohsin Khan: And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Brian's response:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Why quote only half the verse, FD?

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Appears to be OK to me, FD. A general instruction to fight those that do harm to Muslims. Interesting that yet again you misquote and do not provide the whole quote. Tsk, tsk.

In the very same discussion, Brian had just finished explaining that two verses from the Biblical New Testament are an instruction for Christians to use violence to impose Christianity on people. This was, of course, also a lie. Brian did not quote the verses, perhaps because this particular idiocy had been explained to him many times before. Instead he changed tac and complained that Christian terrorists use Luke 19:27 to justify terrorism. He also could not provide a single example of that.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 2:15pm:

Quote:

But why did you include the new testament verses? Neither one of them are instructions to followers.

Because they are often quoted by Christian Terrorists to justify their Terrorism, FD. Roll Eyes

Crap. Who has cited Luke 19:27? And does this not indicate to you the lack of direct support for terrorism in the NT, if that is what they have to go with?

Christian Terrorists, FD.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 12:33pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

Thanks Brian. I am surprised you didn't reassure us that no gay people are currently plummeting to the ground as we speak.

Are you aware of any verses in the bible or any other religious book other than the Quran that instructs followers to use violence to impose the religion on people?

Deuteronomy 17
Deuteronomy 13
Numbers 31
Luke 19:27
Matthew 10:34

Roll Eyes

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Secret Wars Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3928 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #1 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 9:00am "often quoted" eh? Is the apologist idiot still desperately googling to dig himself out from under another brain blurt in his continuing strenuous efforts to exonerate Islam and never criticise it?
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Yadda

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #2 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 9:21am

Quran demands violence to impose Islam

Yes it does.

The more power and authority [to act] that is given to the followers of ISLAM [who are allowed to live among us],
the more openly those followers of ISLAM will reveal and declare their true intent, towards us.

The intent of moslem communities, who are living within non-moslem host nations,
is a 'snowball', rolling down hill, gathering mass.

Listen to the words, coming out of the lips of moslems, who are living among us....

Quote:

"Our dawa should be the dawa that attacks their [kufur] system, and we replace it with ISLAM."

"We want the whole of [kufur] society to bow down to Allah."

"This is our dawa my dear brothers and sisters."

"[do you think that our dawa will change their [kufur] society] Without attacking the law and order ?"

"...we need to behead democracy from its roots....take it, kill it, from its roots. That's what we need to do."

"We should hate it so much, my dear brothers. That every day, we should attack their [kufur] system."

"....We need to attack the law and order."

"....We need to turn around, and to attack the [kufur] society."

Islam - Religion of peace (see!!)

6 min
https://youtu.be/i96nYYcEKNw

.

Listen to what normal moslems [in Norway] are saying,

while they talk about practicing their religion, in Europe.

They are reinforcing, within themselves, what their faith, mainstream ISLAM, allows and requires.

-------- >

What Normal Muslims Think - And Europe Fails to Understand

3 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD7SfPvI_xw

.

The murderous intent, that is revealed in those who are followers of ISLAM, is not isolated to those who DO NOT live in Australia.

LAWLESSNESS and MURDER,
is being promoted by the followers of ISLAM, who are living among us, here in Australia, today

WITNESS, good 'Aussie' moslems,
who are living among us, here in Australia, today,
behind closed doors,
teaching their children how to practice ISLAM.....

Quote:

"You're never too young to be a homicidal maniac for Allah!"

- 'Aussie' moslem child, being taught 'how to practice ISLAM', in Australia.

------------- >

Muslims brainwash children in Australia

-------- > goto 43 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krk5piUzp1E

And 'these people' who live in the West, and who are expressing their wish to destroy us, and to replace our society with ISLAM [ISLAMIC law], are not a tiny minority of 'extremists'.

They are,
followers of mainstream ISLAM.

They are moslems.

And they are promoting what ISLAM itself urges.

They are insisting [within their own community] to the widespread adherence [in society], to the mainstream precepts and the mainstream tenets of ISLAM.

.

Quote:

"In Germany, 47% of Muslims believe Sharia is more important than German law.

In Sweden, 52% of Muslims believe that Sharia is more important than Swedish law."

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11782/europe-islam-polls

COMMENT, IN SAME ARTICLE....
Quote:

Hybird • Feb 4, 2018 at 03:53

These percentages, of course, only represent those who were confident enough to tell the truth to the pollsters.
The real figures will probably be much higher.

ALSO.....
The attitudes of moslem communities, from around the globe, towards 'extremism' and towards the desirability of introducing ISLAMIC law....
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

.

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims

London, Sept.8 [2007]

A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.

Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.

A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....

He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

Google,

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #3 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 9:25am

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1409991405/8#8
Quote:

Promoting and encouraging violent and unlawful acts is illegal.

We live in a country in which the people supposedly respect the rule of law.

Without widespread respect for the law of the land, we [our Australian society] would descend into being like Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Somalia, etc, etc - which is exactly what moslems are trying to achieve.

Moslems want to destroy all of the institutions in Australia, which help to maintain a peaceful and functioning society.

SUGGESTION;
If you live in Australia and you don't like what ISLAM promotes then you should contact your federal parliamentary representative - EXPLAIN TO HIM/HER WHY YOU DO NOT LIKE ISLAM AND MOSLEMS - and encourage your federal parliamentary representative to try to get ISLAM lawfully declared a proscribed [banned] group in Australia.

Act within the law.

Otherwise we are no better than moslems.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #4 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:03am

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:35am:

Another display of hypocrisy from Brian. When presented with verses 8:39 and 2:193 as examples of the Quran instructing Muslims to use violence to spread religion, Brian defended the verses, saying he though they were OK, and accused me of taking out of context and also misquoting. The two verses are pretty much identical. Here is 8:139, with the surrounding verses. It even contains instructions on dividing up the spoils of war.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=39

Mohsin Khan:

34 And why should not Allah punish them while they stop (men) from Al-Masjid-al-Haram, and they are not its guardians? None can be its guardian except Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2), but most of them know not.

35 Their Salat (prayer) at the House (of Allah, i.e. the Ka'bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. Therefore taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve.

36 Verily, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend it; but in the end it will become an anguish for them. Then they will be overcomed. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto Hell.

37 In order that Allah may distinguish the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) from the good (believers of Islamic Monotheism and doers of righteous deeds), and put the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) one on another, heap them together and cast them into Hell. Those! it is they who are the losers.

38 Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).

39 And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Maula (Patron, Lord, Protector and Supporter, etc.), (what) an Excellent Maula, and (what) an Excellent Helper!

41 Know that whatever property you may gain, one fifth belongs to God, the Messenger, the kindred, orphans, the needy and those who need money while on a journey. (This is the law) if you believe in God and what We revealed to Our Servant on the Day of Distinction (Badr) when the armies confronted each other. God has power over all things.

Verse 2:193

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=193

Mohsin Khan: And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Brian's response:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Why quote only half the verse, FD?

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Appears to be OK to me, FD. A general instruction to fight those that do harm to Muslims. Interesting that yet again you misquote and do not provide the whole quote. Tsk, tsk.

In the very same discussion, Brian had just finished explaining that two verses from the Biblical New Testament are an instruction for Christians to use violence to impose Christianity on people. This was, of course, also a lie. Brian did not quote the verses, perhaps because this particular idiocy had been explained to him many times before. Instead he changed tac and complained that Christian terrorists use Luke 19:27 to justify terrorism. He also could not provide a single example of that.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 2:15pm:

Quote:

But why did you include the new testament verses? Neither one of them are instructions to followers.

Because they are often quoted by Christian Terrorists to justify their Terrorism, FD. Roll Eyes

Crap. Who has cited Luke 19:27? And does this not indicate to you the lack of direct support for terrorism in the NT, if that is what they have to go with?

Christian Terrorists, FD.

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 12:33pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 5^th, 2018 at 12:26pm:

Thanks Brian. I am surprised you didn't reassure us that no gay people are currently plummeting to the ground as we speak.

Are you aware of any verses in the bible or any other religious book other than the Quran that instructs followers to use violence to impose the religion on people?

Deuteronomy 17
Deuteronomy 13
Numbers 31
Luke 19:27
Matthew 10:34

Roll Eyes

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

I'm curious.

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issuevoter

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #5 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:12am

Most muzlim fanatics cite the Koran as the justification for horrendous atrocities against infidels. Some have tried to claim validity for random atrocities against the general public by vague allusions to westerners mistreatment of muslims. But if it was not for these muzlim atrocities dating from the late 1970s until now, the non-muzlim world would not give a sh1!t about Islam. And that may be part of the problem. After all, they do have to admit privately what their religion-soaked culture has done for human progress - at the last estimate, bugger all.

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freediver

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #6 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:01pm

Quote:

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

Gandalf get's upset when I do quote bombs. He has started deleting my posts again. In any case, it was Brian who cited it. I'm happy to leave it at "you'd have to be an idiot to conclude that NT verse is instructing Christians to use violence to impose their religion". If you have a different interpretation, feel free to take up the cause.

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Secret Wars

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #7 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:02pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:03am:

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

I'm curious.

FD was quoting Brian, why not ask Brian why he didn't quote the Bible. Cool

Though I am not at all curious why you didn't.

But since you have waded in to defend a fellow apologist why not help him out by finding something that substantiates his claim the verses he references, ...note not quoted, Roll Eyes

are in his words, "Because they are often quoted by Christian Terrorists to justify their Terrorism, FD."

Complete with his signature little rolling eyes to indicate if you didn't know that you must be a compete numpty.

So, being "often quoted" in justification of terrorism should be easy enough to find and present.

Have at it.

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freediver

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #8 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:05pm

issuevoter wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:12am:

Most muzlim fanatics cite the Koran as the justification for horrendous atrocities against infidels. Some have tried to claim validity for random atrocities against the general public by vague allusions to westerners mistreatment of muslims. But if it was not for these muzlim atrocities dating from the late 1970s until now, the non-muzlim world would not give a sh1!t about Islam. And that may be part of the problem. After all, they do have to admit privately what their religion-soaked culture has done for human progress - at the last estimate, bugger all.

They destroyed pretty much all of western civilisation, save for the European fringe, minus of course much of the southern coastline which was depopulated by Muslims in their never ending quest for sex slaves. I'd guess Islam set back the course of human development by half a Millenium.

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Yadda

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #9 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 4:59pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:03am:

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

I'm curious.

If you know what it commands so well, why don't you quote the Bible Karnal ?

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 16^th, 2017 at 9:56pm:

4. The Torah, the foundational text of the Jews, incites wholesale violence, slaughter, torture and barbarity.

THAT IS A LIE - No it doesn't

Everybody knows this.

No they don't. Only an ignorant, unread person, who had not studied those texts could be deceived into believing that.

Getting "Old Testament" on someone means to overcome someone through hardship and torture.

No it doesn't

There are specific instructions in the Old Testament on which behaviours deserve execution and the mode of execution.

True - But these punishments relate to covenant breaking [which was very, very serious, because it related to promises which were made to their God], and to criminal behaviour.

There is specific encouragement to go out and kill other tribes and seize their land, women and livestock.

God called upon his people to cleanse the land of Israel, by killing a very specific set of peoples who inhabited the land of Israel. And the Israelites were to [one time] kill everything that drew breath. Deuteronomy 20:16-18

There are exemplars, such as King David, held up as warrior role models.

THAT IS A LIE - God actually rebuked David, firstly as an adulterer and a murderer, and later, said that as a 'bloody man' he, David, was unfit for a Holy task.

And finally, the Jews are exhempt from any universal justice in this regard because they're (a) following G_d's orders and (b) they're G_d's chosen people.

THAT IS A LIE - The Israelites were to be an example to other peoples and nations, and were to be a Holy and righteous people. Deuteronomy 4:5-8 In the O.T. texts, the God of Israel, specifically called upon his people to be righteous and Holy.

My responses to Karnal, are cited in Reply #32 of that thread.

Scripture explains that the God of Israel was offended by the specific behaviours of the people who occupied HIS land.

That is the reason given, why they all had to be killed.

Deuteronomy 18:9
When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

Deuteronomy 20:17
....thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6488 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #10 - Mar 6^th, 2018 at 5:29pm Just don't read any of Brian's self loathing posts. Which is all of them.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #11 - Mar 7^th, 2018 at 10:31am

Secret Wars wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:02pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 11:03am:

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

I'm curious.

FD was quoting Brian, why not ask Brian why he didn't quote the Bible. Cool

Though I am not at all curious why you didn't.

But since you have waded in to defend a fellow apologist why not help him out by finding something that substantiates his claim the verses he references, ...note not quoted, Roll Eyes

are in his words, "Because they are often quoted by Christian Terrorists to justify their Terrorism, FD."

Complete with his signature little rolling eyes to indicate if you didn't know that you must be a compete numpty.

So, being "often quoted" in justification of terrorism should be easy enough to find and present.

Have at it.

Oh, I'm happy to be educated, Secret, but I can see nothing in the New Testament that justifies wholesale slaughter.

As Y points out above, these orders are contained in the Old Testament. FD won't quote them because G told him not to use quote bombs.

Cunning, no?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #12 - Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:08pm Quote: Oh, I'm happy to be educated, Secret, but I can see nothing in the New Testament that justifies wholesale slaughter. How about the Quran?
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #13 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:51am freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:08pm: Quote: Oh, I'm happy to be educated, Secret, but I can see nothing in the New Testament that justifies wholesale slaughter. How about the Quran? We've been through all the verses, FD, you know the answer to that. Why do you ask?
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moses

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #14 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 1:37pm

The answers to the verses in the qur'an?

Well as the grand mufti once said: "a houri with a cork mutti knows that".

Australian National Security Listed terrorist organisations

•Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 1 November 2008, 29 October 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Murabitun
Listed 5 November 2014, re-listed 2 November 2017

•Al-Qa'ida (AQ)
Listed 21 October 2002, re-listed 1 September 2004, 26 August 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
Listed 26 November 2010, re-listed 26 November 2013 and 26 November 2016.

•Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)
Listed 28 November 2016

•Al-Qa’ida in the Lands of the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Shabaab
Listed 22 August 2009, re-listed 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Boko Haram
Listed 26 June 2014 and re-listed 27 June 2017.

•Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
Listed 9 November 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Hizballah's External Security Organisation (ESO)
Listed 5 June 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 25 May 2007, 16 May 2009, 12 May 2012 and 2 May 2015

•Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012, 3 March 2015 and 3 March 2018

•Islamic State
Formerly listed as Al-Qa’ida in Iraq—2 March 2005, re-listed 17 Feb 2007, 1 Nov 2008, 29 Oct 2010, 12 July 2013. Formerly listed as Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant on 14 Dec 2013. Listed 11 July 2014 as Islamic State and re-listed 1 July 2017.

•Islamic State East Asia
Listed 8 September 2017

•Islamic State in Libya (IS-Libya)
Listed 28 November 2016

•Islamic State Khorasan Province
2 November 2017

•Islamic State Sinai Province (IS-Sinai)
Listed 28 November 2016.

•Jabhat al-Nusra
Listed 29 June 2013, re-listed 28 June 2016 and amended on 4 November 2016 to include alias Jabhat Fatah al-Sham.

•Jaish-e-Mohammad
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012, 3 March 2015 and 3 March 2018.

•Jamiat ul-Ansar (JuA)
Formerly known as Harakat Ul-Mujahideen—Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 1 November 2008, 29 October 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Jemaah Islamiyah (JI)
Listed 27 October 2002, re-listed 1 September 2004, 26 August 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)
Listed 17 December 2005, re-listed 28 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Lashkar-e Jhangvi
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012, 3 March 2015 and 3 March 2018.

•Lashkar-e-Tayyiba
Listed 9 November 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Listed 3 May 2004, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #15 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 1:53pm

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Quote:

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

Gandalf get's upset when I do quote bombs. He has started deleting my posts again. In any case, it was Brian who cited it. I'm happy to leave it at "you'd have to be an idiot to conclude that NT verse is instructing Christians to use violence to impose their religion". If you have a different interpretation, feel free to take up the cause.

The last post I deleted wasn't because it was a quote bomb. It was because you (once again) lifted a whole heap of quotes from one thread and tried to continue the discussion in a completely new thread.

You can't complain that I haven't warned you enough times about doing that. I also invited you to repost the quotes in the thread from which it came from.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #16 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 2:52pm There you go, FD, you have permission to quote from the Old Testament. Freeeedom, innit.
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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #17 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 3:32pm

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 7:35am:

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=39

Mohsin Khan:

Interesting. I wonder why FD chooses one of the more obscure translations, and one of the only ones that specifically defines 'fitnah' as 'disbelief and polytheism'?

And not any of these...

Quote:

DR. GHALI
And fight them, till there is no temptation (Or: sedition, persecution)

Quote:

YUSUF ALI
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression

Quote:

MUFTI TAQI USMANI
And fight them until there is no Fitnah (mischief)

Quote:

ABDUL HALEEM
[Believers], fight them until there is no more persecution

Quote:

DR. MUSTAFA KHATTAB, THE CLEAR QURAN
Fight against them until there is no more persecution

Lets explore the actual meaning of the word a little more...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(word)#Classical_Arabic

Quote:

Lane, in his monumental Arabic-English Lexicon compiled from various traditional Arabic lexicographical sources available in Cairo in the mid-19th-century, reported that "to burn" is the "primary signification" of the verb.[2] The verb then came to be applied to the smelting of gold and silver. It was extended to mean causing one to enter into fire and into a state of punishment or affliction. Thus, one says that something caused one to enter al-fitna, i.e. trial, affliction, etc., or more generally, an affliction whereby some good or evil quality is put to the test.[2] Lane glosses the noun fitna as meaning a trial, a probation, affliction, distress or hardship, and says that "the sum total of its meaning in the language of the Arabs" is an affliction whereby one is tried, proved or tested.[3]

The definitions offered by Lane match those suggested by Badawi and Haleem in their dictionary of Qur'anic usage. They gloss the triliteral root as having the following meanings: "to purify gold and silver by smelting them; to burn; to put to the test, to afflict (in particular as a means of testing someone's endurance); to disrupt the peace of a community; to tempt, to seduce, to allure, to infatuate."[4]

and in the context of specific verses related to fighting the unbeliever:

Quote:

Persecution
Fitna as persecution appears in several of the verses commanding Muslims to fight the unbelievers (specifically referring to the Meccan polytheists who had persecuted Muhammad and his early followers, thus leading to the hijra). For example, in Qur'an 2:191, the command to fight is justified on the grounds that "persecution (al-fitnatu) is worse than slaying." Similarly, in Qur'an 2:193, Muslims are forbidden from fighting unbelievers around the Holy Mosque in Mecca unless the unbelievers attack first, in which case Muslims are to fight "until there is no persecution (fitnatun) and the religion is God's." The hijra is mentioned in Qur'an 16:110 as having occurred because of the persecution believers had suffered in Mecca. Other examples are Qur'an 85:10, which promises the chastisement of Hell for those who have persecuted Muslims, and Qur'an 4:101, which provides that one's daily required prayer may be shortened if, when on a journey, one fears that the unbelievers may attack if one remains in a place long enough to complete the full prayer.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #18 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 3:52pm That's a quote bomb, G. I don't think FD will allow that one.
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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #19 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

freediver wrote on Mar 7^th, 2018 at 12:08pm:

Quote:

Oh, I'm happy to be educated, Secret, but I can see nothing in the New Testament that justifies wholesale slaughter.

How about the Quran?

We've been through all the verses, FD, you know the answer to that.

Why do you ask?

Because I don't recall you ever giving a straight answer.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 1:53pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 6^th, 2018 at 2:01pm:

Quote:

Why aren't you quoting the Bible, FD?

Gandalf get's upset when I do quote bombs. He has started deleting my posts again. In any case, it was Brian who cited it. I'm happy to leave it at "you'd have to be an idiot to conclude that NT verse is instructing Christians to use violence to impose their religion". If you have a different interpretation, feel free to take up the cause.

The last post I deleted wasn't because it was a quote bomb. It was because you (once again) lifted a whole heap of quotes from one thread and tried to continue the discussion in a completely new thread.

You can't complain that I haven't warned you enough times about doing that. I also invited you to repost the quotes in the thread from which it came from.

What's the difference between a quote bomb and "lifting a whole heap of quotes from one thread". Quote bomb was your term. I recall finding it quite curious that a Muslim would use the term bomb in that way.

Quote:

You can't complain that I haven't warned you enough times about doing that.

You have warned me. But then you started doing quote bombs yourself (perhaps it was in self defence, or retribution for past quote bombs that you and your community were a victim of, or perhaps these two excuses are one and the same), and I have done plenty since. So I assumed you had given up.

Quote:

I also invited you to repost the quotes in the thread from which it came from.

That was generous of you to let me do that after you deleted everything.

Quote:

Interesting. I wonder why FD chooses one of the more obscure translations, and one of the only ones that specifically defines 'fitnah' as 'disbelief and polytheism'?

Because of your absurd efforts to claim that "fight them until all religion is for allah and there is no more oppression" is actually saying that war may only be fought in self defence. I recall you ran away and never came back last time I quoted that version. Shall I bump the thread so we can continue? Or is it time for a new one? I'll start collecting quotes of all the contradictory things you have said.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #20 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:57pm

Quote:

Persecution
Fitna as persecution appears in several of the verses commanding Muslims to fight the unbelievers (specifically referring to the Meccan polytheists who had persecuted Muhammad and his early followers, thus leading to the hijra). For example, in Qur'an 2:191, the command to fight is justified on the grounds that "persecution (al-fitnatu) is worse than slaying." Similarly, in Qur'an 2:193, Muslims are forbidden from fighting unbelievers around the Holy Mosque in Mecca unless the unbelievers attack first, in which case Muslims are to fight "until there is no persecution (fitnatun) and the religion is God's." The hijra is mentioned in Qur'an 16:110 as having occurred because of the persecution believers had suffered in Mecca. Other examples are Qur'an 85:10, which promises the chastisement of Hell for those who have persecuted Muslims, and Qur'an 4:101, which provides that one's daily required prayer may be shortened if, when on a journey, one fears that the unbelievers may attack if one remains in a place long enough to complete the full prayer.

Can you explain why the almost-identical verse 8:39 also uses fitna in a way that cannot possibly be interpreted as persecution?

34 And why should not Allah punish them while they stop (men) from Al-Masjid-al-Haram, and they are not its guardians? None can be its guardian except Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2), but most of them know not.

35 Their Salat (prayer) at the House (of Allah, i.e. the Ka'bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. Therefore taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve.

36 Verily, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend it; but in the end it will become an anguish for them. Then they will be overcomed. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto Hell.

37 In order that Allah may distinguish the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) from the good (believers of Islamic Monotheism and doers of righteous deeds), and put the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) one on another, heap them together and cast them into Hell. Those! it is they who are the losers.

38 Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).

39 And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Maula (Patron, Lord, Protector and Supporter, etc.), (what) an Excellent Maula, and (what) an Excellent Helper!

41 Know that whatever property you may gain, one fifth belongs to God, the Messenger, the kindred, orphans, the needy and those who need money while on a journey. (This is the law) if you believe in God and what We revealed to Our Servant on the Day of Distinction (Badr) when the armies confronted each other. God has power over all things.

Can you explain why both verses (8:39 and 2:139) contain a reference to Islam becoming the only religion in the same sentence?

Also, what concept of political liberty and freedom, or political persecution or oppression existed at the time? Did Muhammad every communicate any concepts of oppression vs freedom? Or was he too busy slaughtering the infidel and telling Muslims that fighting is ordained for them even though they detest it?

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #21 - Mar 8^th, 2018 at 8:02pm Oh, I see. But you do remember you giving a straight answer, yes? Can you quote that for me, FD? Cheers.
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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #22 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:05am

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

What's the difference between a quote bomb and "lifting a whole heap of quotes from one thread".

The problem arises only if its continuing an existing debate, especially with quotes, in a different thread - irrespective of whether or not its a 'quote bomb'. Although historically, quote bombs are typically presented as new threads. My beef is when I attempt to track someone's argument through the course of a particular debate, and find myself having to traverse 3, 4, 5 or even more separate threads. But you know all this because I've told you all this before.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

But then you started doing quote bombs yourself

The rate at which you did it just became absurd. I had to do something.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

That was generous of you to let me do that after you deleted everything.

You are administrator of this board. If you don't have easy access to a backup, then you are not a very good administrator. If it was anyone else, I wouldn't have deleted it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #23 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:17am

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

Because of your absurd efforts to claim that "fight them until all religion is for allah and there is no more oppression" is actually saying that war may only be fought in self defence.

I do believe you are literally the only person alive who would argue that a command to fight until there is no more oppression - is somehow not a command to only fight in self defense.

One can only begin to imagine the mental acrobats you must go through to convince yourself of this.

But you're probably right - I probably did run away from such an attempt at an "argument". Ran away shaking my head and rolling my eyes no doubt.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #24 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:50am

Quote:

Sahih International

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

https://quran.com/9/29

Sounds like Allah does demand violence to impose Islam to me.

No mention of fighting in self defence there.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #25 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

What's the difference between a quote bomb and "lifting a whole heap of quotes from one thread".

The problem arises only if its continuing an existing debate, especially with quotes, in a different thread - irrespective of whether or not its a 'quote bomb'. Although historically, quote bombs are typically presented as new threads. My beef is when I attempt to track someone's argument through the course of a particular debate, and find myself having to traverse 3, 4, 5 or even more separate threads. But you know all this because I've told you all this before.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

But then you started doing quote bombs yourself

The rate at which you did it just became absurd. I had to do something.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

That was generous of you to let me do that after you deleted everything.

You are administrator of this board. If you don't have easy access to a backup, then you are not a very good administrator. If it was anyone else, I wouldn't have deleted it.

So you only deleted my post because I am the site owner and you think it is easy to go into the website backups and retrieve it? How often do you think those backups are made?

Also, are you now saying there is not actually a rule against these quote bombs, but against exceeding some kind of quota for them?

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #26 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:17am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

Because of your absurd efforts to claim that "fight them until all religion is for allah and there is no more oppression" is actually saying that war may only be fought in self defence.

I do believe you are literally the only person alive who would argue that a command to fight until there is no more oppression - is somehow not a command to only fight in self defense.

One can only begin to imagine the mental acrobats you must go through to convince yourself of this.

But you're probably right - I probably did run away from such an attempt at an "argument". Ran away shaking my head and rolling my eyes no doubt.

Remember, do not question that which, if revealed to you, may cause you trouble.

Quote:

Persecution
Fitna as persecution appears in several of the verses commanding Muslims to fight the unbelievers (specifically referring to the Meccan polytheists who had persecuted Muhammad and his early followers, thus leading to the hijra). For example, in Qur'an 2:191, the command to fight is justified on the grounds that "persecution (al-fitnatu) is worse than slaying." Similarly, in Qur'an 2:193, Muslims are forbidden from fighting unbelievers around the Holy Mosque in Mecca unless the unbelievers attack first, in which case Muslims are to fight "until there is no persecution (fitnatun) and the religion is God's." The hijra is mentioned in Qur'an 16:110 as having occurred because of the persecution believers had suffered in Mecca. Other examples are Qur'an 85:10, which promises the chastisement of Hell for those who have persecuted Muslims, and Qur'an 4:101, which provides that one's daily required prayer may be shortened if, when on a journey, one fears that the unbelievers may attack if one remains in a place long enough to complete the full prayer.

Can you explain why the almost-identical verse 8:39 also uses fitna in a way that cannot possibly be interpreted as persecution?

34 And why should not Allah punish them while they stop (men) from Al-Masjid-al-Haram, and they are not its guardians? None can be its guardian except Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2), but most of them know not.

35 Their Salat (prayer) at the House (of Allah, i.e. the Ka'bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. Therefore taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve.

36 Verily, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend it; but in the end it will become an anguish for them. Then they will be overcomed. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto Hell.

37 In order that Allah may distinguish the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) from the good (believers of Islamic Monotheism and doers of righteous deeds), and put the wicked (disbelievers, polytheists and doers of evil deeds) one on another, heap them together and cast them into Hell. Those! it is they who are the losers.

38 Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).

39 And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

40 And if they turn away, then know that Allah is your Maula (Patron, Lord, Protector and Supporter, etc.), (what) an Excellent Maula, and (what) an Excellent Helper!

41 Know that whatever property you may gain, one fifth belongs to God, the Messenger, the kindred, orphans, the needy and those who need money while on a journey. (This is the law) if you believe in God and what We revealed to Our Servant on the Day of Distinction (Badr) when the armies confronted each other. God has power over all things.

Can you explain why both verses (8:39 and 2:139) contain a reference to Islam becoming the only religion in the same sentence?

Also, what concept of political liberty and freedom, or political persecution or oppression existed at the time? Did Muhammad ever communicate any concepts of oppression vs freedom? Or was he too busy slaughtering the infidel and telling Muslims that fighting is ordained for them even though they detest it?

Without those concepts being both present and communicated, what should we assume? That those translators who use the word oppression for fitna are lying about what the Quran says? Or that Muslims use the term oppression with a different meaning, like Aussie when he uses the term Arab to mean Muslim?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #27 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:34pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 11:05am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

What's the difference between a quote bomb and "lifting a whole heap of quotes from one thread".

The problem arises only if its continuing an existing debate, especially with quotes, in a different thread - irrespective of whether or not its a 'quote bomb'. Although historically, quote bombs are typically presented as new threads. My beef is when I attempt to track someone's argument through the course of a particular debate, and find myself having to traverse 3, 4, 5 or even more separate threads. But you know all this because I've told you all this before.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

But then you started doing quote bombs yourself

The rate at which you did it just became absurd. I had to do something.

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

That was generous of you to let me do that after you deleted everything.

You are administrator of this board. If you don't have easy access to a backup, then you are not a very good administrator. If it was anyone else, I wouldn't have deleted it.

So you only deleted my post because I am the site owner and you think it is easy to go into the website backups and retrieve it? How often do you think those backups are made?

Also, are you now saying there is not actually a rule against these quote bombs, but against exceeding some kind of quota for them?

Doesn't sound like it, FD. This means you're free to post your Old Testament quotes.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #28 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:16pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:34pm:

Can you explain why the almost-identical verse 8:39 also uses fitna in a way that cannot possibly be interpreted as persecution?

no, because it doesn't.

(hint: 8:39 doesn't say "in the whole of the world" - Khan made that up.)

Sahih International:

Quote:

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #29 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?
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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #30 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 3:16pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 12:34pm:

Can you explain why the almost-identical verse 8:39 also uses fitna in a way that cannot possibly be interpreted as persecution?

no, because it doesn't.

(hint: 8:39 doesn't say "in the whole of the world" - Khan made that up.)

Sahih International:

Quote:

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

FD? That's the Quran.

Shurely shome mishtake. You said you were going to quote the Bible.

What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #31 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?

err 'religion, all of it' = entire world? Is that your answer FD?

Maybe it means the religion of Islam - all of it - is dedicated to Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)??

I'm confused FD, can you explain to me where the connection to physical land/territory is here?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #32 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?

err 'religion, all of it' = entire world? Is that your answer FD?

Maybe it means the religion of Islam - all of it - is dedicated to Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)??

I'm confused FD, can you explain to me where the connection to physical land/territory is here?

Well, can you explain to us all where the connection to whatever FD says is not here?

That'll get him, FD. So unfair.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #33 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 9:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?

err 'religion, all of it' = entire world? Is that your answer FD?

Maybe it means the religion of Islam - all of it - is dedicated to Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)??

I'm confused FD, can you explain to me where the connection to physical land/territory is here?

You are not confused, you are lying, knowingly.

You DO know that the aim is to have the entire world submit to Islam, NOT that just all Muslims submit to Islam and "Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)"

You seem to think you can lie without being noticed. But you are not among Muslim Arabs in the market here to whom SEEMING is Being.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #34 - Mar 9^th, 2018 at 9:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?

err 'religion, all of it' = entire world? Is that your answer FD?

Maybe it means the religion of Islam - all of it - is dedicated to Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)??

I'm confused FD, can you explain to me where the connection to physical land/territory is here?

I agree.

So the Quran says to fight the disbelievers until Islam is for Allah?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #35 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 1:21pm

Frank wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 9:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?

err 'religion, all of it' = entire world? Is that your answer FD?

Maybe it means the religion of Islam - all of it - is dedicated to Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)??

I'm confused FD, can you explain to me where the connection to physical land/territory is here?

You are not confused, you are lying, knowingly.

You DO know that the aim is to have the entire world submit to Islam, NOT that just all Muslims submit to Islam and "Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)"

You seem to think you can lie without being noticed. But you are not among Muslim Arabs in the market here to whom SEEMING is Being.

You are aware that Christianity, being an evangelical religion, just like Islam, also seeks world-wide domination? You are aware that Christianity has, several times, mounted expeditions around the world to dominate it? Or are Christians exempt from analysis under the microscope, in your view, Soren? Tsk, tsk. Christianity, the only religion that is protected in Soren's world. He can be offended if people look too closely at Christianity, hey? Roll Eyes

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #36 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 2:14pm

Amazing how the apologists use the excuse: "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there," to excuse islamic terrorism in the past.

Yet they wan't to drag up the past of non muslims to once again, you guessed it, excuse islamic terrorism.

Well the facts are:

The present is right here right now

Australian National Security, Listed terrorist organisations

Currently, 24 organisations are listed as terrorist organisations under the Criminal Code. They are:

•Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 1 November 2008, 29 October 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Murabitun
Listed 5 November 2014, re-listed 2 November 2017

•Al-Qa'ida (AQ)
Listed 21 October 2002, re-listed 1 September 2004, 26 August 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
Listed 26 November 2010, re-listed 26 November 2013 and 26 November 2016.

•Al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)
Listed 28 November 2016

•Al-Qa’ida in the Lands of the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Al-Shabaab
Listed 22 August 2009, re-listed 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Boko Haram
Listed 26 June 2014 and re-listed 27 June 2017.

•Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
Listed 9 November 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Hizballah's External Security Organisation (ESO)
Listed 5 June 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 25 May 2007, 16 May 2009, 12 May 2012 and 2 May 2015

•Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012, 3 March 2015 and 3 March 2018

•Islamic State
Formerly listed as Al-Qa’ida in Iraq—2 March 2005, re-listed 17 Feb 2007, 1 Nov 2008, 29 Oct 2010, 12 July 2013. Formerly listed as Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant on 14 Dec 2013. Listed 11 July 2014 as Islamic State and re-listed 1 July 2017.

•Islamic State East Asia
Listed 8 September 2017

•Islamic State in Libya (IS-Libya)
Listed 28 November 2016

•Islamic State Khorasan Province
2 November 2017

•Islamic State Sinai Province (IS-Sinai)
Listed 28 November 2016.

•Jabhat al-Nusra
Listed 29 June 2013, re-listed 28 June 2016 and amended on 4 November 2016 to include alias Jabhat Fatah al-Sham.

•Jaish-e-Mohammad
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012, 3 March 2015 and 3 March 2018.

•Jamiat ul-Ansar (JuA)
Formerly known as Harakat Ul-Mujahideen—Listed 14 November 2002, re-listed 5 November 2004, 3 November 2006, 1 November 2008, 29 October 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Jemaah Islamiyah (JI)
Listed 27 October 2002, re-listed 1 September 2004, 26 August 2006, 9 August 2008, 22 July 2010, 12 July 2013 and 28 June 2016

•Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)
Listed 17 December 2005, re-listed 28 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Lashkar-e Jhangvi
Listed 11 April 2003, re-listed 11 April 2005, 31 March 2007, 14 March 2009, 10 March 2012, 3 March 2015 and 3 March 2018.

•Lashkar-e-Tayyiba
Listed 9 November 2003, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

•Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Listed 3 May 2004, re-listed 5 June 2005, 7 October 2005, 8 September 2007, 8 September 2009, 18 August 2012 and 11 August 2015

islam is the present death cult, it's got nothing to do with Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists whatever, the world has a terrorist problem today 2018, that problem is islam.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #37 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 3:09pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. What a hackneyed old tale you tell, Moses. You don't like Christianity being examined in the same way Islam is, do you? I wonder why? What mysteries will be revealed by looking closely at what Christianity has done and is doing, I wonder? Could it be that it's past is just as murky as Islam's? That both religions have tried to take over the world and failed? Is it the failure that upsets you the most? That the majority of the world isn't attracted to Christianity the way you are, in your simpleminded way? Tsk, tsk. Time you woke up, that your religion is just as blood thirsty as any other. That it attempts to impose it's values on non-believers just as violent as does Islam. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2018 at 3:51pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #38 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm The facts of today 2018: The top 24 listed terrorist organizations in the world are the present threat. No one else is to blame, it's a muslim problem, and can only be solved by muslims and their apologists telling the truth about the root cause of islamic terrorism (islam).
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #39 - Mar 10^th, 2018 at 3:40pm Yes, Moses, the past is a foreign country. We defend the parents of Yeheshua too. Joseph was in his 90s. The Virgin Mary was 12. That's just how they did things then. It is a jolly world, no?
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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #40 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 3:12pm Which has got exactly what to do with the fact that muslims are the worlds top 24 listed terrorist groups, right now 2018? Why are you so desperate to hide the murderous facts about islam, in todays' modern world?
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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #41 - Mar 11^th, 2018 at 3:29pm Karnal is a Muzlim.
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #42 - Mar 12^th, 2018 at 9:07am issuevoter wrote on Mar 11^th, 2018 at 3:29pm: Karnal is a Muzlim. Karnal is a jolly agnostic. You?
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 40536 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #43 - Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:25pm http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515476979/6#6
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39536	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #44 - Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:32pm Frank wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:25pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515476979/6#6 Totally irrelevant, Soren. Wasting our time now? Tsk, tsk.
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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #45 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:24am How many times do the faithful have to read those nasty bits of the Koran before suicide zombification?
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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #46 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 1:59pm Until they become RADICALIZED
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #47 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 9:53pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah

Would you like to offer your interpretation of this Gandalf?

err 'religion, all of it' = entire world? Is that your answer FD?

Maybe it means the religion of Islam - all of it - is dedicated to Allah alone (ie not for idols etc)??

I'm confused FD, can you explain to me where the connection to physical land/territory is here?

I agree.

So the Quran says to fight the disbelievers until Islam is for Allah?

It says fight until muslims are able to worship freely.

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #48 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Your rights???? Wha' 'appened to Submission, bozo?? Eternal will of Alan and Boy Mo and all that crap?
Rights? Sentiments??? Where does the Koran or Mo say ANYTHING about rights and sentiment, our forked-tongued (beginner), deceptive (laughable) little Muslim convert?

You are applying kuffar notions to advance your destructive and oppresive Islamic doctrines which will immediately destroy the kuffar notions of rights and sentiments the moment it gains power.

No wonder you cannot be trusted in any shape or form. Lying and distortion and misrepresentation are everywhere in all Muslims apologies for Islam and you are no exception. Bwian has the same disease - cannot be honest and candid. You guys just cannot be honest and consistent and principled. It;s all about Submission, any which way.
Were you to try to be honest and consistent and truthful, the entire Islamic edifice would fall down in a heap. It's all a lie. And you can see just the type of people who fall for such a lie.

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« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:25pm by Frank »

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #49 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:23pm

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Your rights???? Wha' 'appened to Submission, bozo??

Eternal will of Alan and Boy Mo and all that crap? Rights? Where does the Koran or Mo say ANYTHING about rights, our forked-tongued (beginner), deceptive (laughable) little Muslim convert?

Exactly. Where does the Quran say anything about the rights of Lutherans?

G, you tell the old boy that.

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freediver

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #50 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:32pm

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Your rights???? Wha' 'appened to Submission, bozo?? Eternal will of Alan and Boy Mo and all that crap?
Rights? Sentiments??? Where does the Koran or Mo say ANYTHING about rights and sentiment, our forked-tongued (beginner), deceptive (laughable) little Muslim convert?

You are applying kuffar notions to advance your destructive and oppresive Islamic doctrines which will immediately destroy the kuffar notions of rights and sentiments the moment it gains power.

No wonder you cannot be trusted in any shape or form. Lying and distortion and misrepresentation are everywhere in all Muslims apologies for Islam and you are no exception. Bwian has the same disease - cannot be honest and candid. You guys just cannot be honest and consistent and principled. It;s all about Submission, any which way.
Were you to try to be honest and consistent and truthful, the entire Islamic edifice would fall down in a heap. It's all a lie. And you can see just the type of people who fall for such a lie.

Some translators say oppression instead of fighting the infidel until there is nor more paganism. This allows Muslims to insert any concept of oppression and rights they wish into the Quran. It does not have to make sense.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #51 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:40pm That's right, FD. G, where does the Quran say anything about the right to criticise Islam? FD wants to know.
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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #52 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

It says fight until muslims are able to worship freely.

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Muslims are able to worsship freely in Western countries - not something you can say about a lot of Muslim countries if you are the 'wrong' ' Muslim.

So what ELSE are all those Western jihadis and Muslim terrorist - blowing up teenage girls, shooting up newspapers, theatres, restaurants, murdering Bastille Day and Chrismas and other market crowds in Berlin and London, police accountants, English army drummers in London - are fighting for exactly??

Do explain, shifty Abdul. There is no excuse for the way you Muslims behave in the world today. There is no excuse for the endless acts of mad dogs.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #53 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:32pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515476979/6#6

Totally irrelevant, Soren. Wasting our time now? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You mean you are caught out again and have zero ability to address any of the well-documented points made.

You are a stupid nobody with zero arguments, zero credibility. You are an object of contempt and ridicule, very extensively articulated and documented.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #54 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:32pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515476979/6#6

Totally irrelevant, Soren. Wasting our time now? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You mean you are caught out again and have zero ability to address any of the well-documented points made.

You are a stupid nobody with zero arguments, zero credibility. You are an object of contempt and ridicule, very extensively articulated and documented.

A video from an ex-performance poet isn't worth reply to. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #55 - Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:32pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515476979/6#6

Totally irrelevant, Soren. Wasting our time now? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You mean you are caught out again and have zero ability to address any of the well-documented points made.

You are a stupid nobody with zero arguments, zero credibility. You are an object of contempt and ridicule, very extensively articulated and documented.

A video from an ex-performance poet isn't worth reply to. Roll Eyes

Performative, innit.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #56 - Mar 14^th, 2018 at 3:36pm

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Your rights???? Wha' 'appened to Submission, bozo?? Eternal will of Alan and Boy Mo and all that crap?
Rights? Sentiments??? Where does the Koran or Mo say ANYTHING about rights and sentiment, our forked-tongued (beginner), deceptive (laughable) little Muslim convert?

You are applying kuffar notions to advance your destructive and oppresive Islamic doctrines which will immediately destroy the kuffar notions of rights and sentiments the moment it gains power.

No wonder you cannot be trusted in any shape or form. Lying and distortion and misrepresentation are everywhere in all Muslims apologies for Islam and you are no exception. Bwian has the same disease - cannot be honest and candid. You guys just cannot be honest and consistent and principled. It;s all about Submission, any which way.
Were you to try to be honest and consistent and truthful, the entire Islamic edifice would fall down in a heap. It's all a lie. And you can see just the type of people who fall for such a lie.

Hmmm any hypocricy here? haughtily lecturing a muslim for being two-faced and cynically using "kuffar notions" to advance a sinister agenda.... from someone who said the quote in my sig? No way, no hypocricy at all. No words, really. Or perhaps just: oh dear, tsk tsk, yawn

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #57 - Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:44pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:32pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 12^th, 2018 at 6:25pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1515476979/6#6

Totally irrelevant, Soren. Wasting our time now? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You mean you are caught out again and have zero ability to address any of the well-documented points made.

You are a stupid nobody with zero arguments, zero credibility. You are an object of contempt and ridicule, very extensively articulated and documented.

A video from an ex-performance poet isn't worth reply to. Roll Eyes

Performative, innit.

Thank you girls, it's your idiotic way of admitting that you cannot possible counter any of his arguments. If you were REALLY that superior to Pat you would elegantly and swiftly destroy his arguments. You can't and you won't.

Because you are complete idiots with zero argument, other than pretence miffiness. Alas, being queenie is no counter argument, no matter how often you deploy it. An ex-performance poet is a far greater achievement, by the way, than being an arse-sniffing Paki social worker ministering to other Paki arse sniffers in Bankstown or a clapped out mail-order doktor with no friends and a massive brain tumor of stupidity.

In any case, he is infinitely more articulate and factual than you queenies.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #58 - Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 3:36pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Your rights???? Wha' 'appened to Submission, bozo?? Eternal will of Alan and Boy Mo and all that crap?
Rights? Sentiments??? Where does the Koran or Mo say ANYTHING about rights and sentiment, our forked-tongued (beginner), deceptive (laughable) little Muslim convert?

You are applying kuffar notions to advance your destructive and oppresive Islamic doctrines which will immediately destroy the kuffar notions of rights and sentiments the moment it gains power.

No wonder you cannot be trusted in any shape or form. Lying and distortion and misrepresentation are everywhere in all Muslims apologies for Islam and you are no exception. Bwian has the same disease - cannot be honest and candid. You guys just cannot be honest and consistent and principled. It;s all about Submission, any which way.
Were you to try to be honest and consistent and truthful, the entire Islamic edifice would fall down in a heap. It's all a lie. And you can see just the type of people who fall for such a lie.

Hmmm any hypocricy here? haughtily lecturing a muslim for being two-faced and cynically using "kuffar notions" to advance a sinister agenda.... from someone who said the quote in my sig? No way, no hypocricy at all. No words, really. Or perhaps just: oh dear, tsk tsk, yawn

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted. Eye-rolling and miff are not arguments, not even from minorities.

Your inability to counter any criticism is also obvious. Getting all Emotionally Correct just shows how shifty you Muslims are. See also post on Muslim deception and lying.

You have been playing this silly game for more than a decade and the evidence for Muslim bad faith and deception is only increasing.

Have a look - Muslim credibility is going down every year. It's because you say one thing and do another. You Muslims are way past salvaging by PR spin. yet you are still trying.

Sad. Stupid. Unbelievable.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #59 - Mar 14^th, 2018 at 8:30pm

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 3:36pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 8:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

Fight for your rights innit. Unconscionable sentiment I know.

Your rights???? Wha' 'appened to Submission, bozo?? Eternal will of Alan and Boy Mo and all that crap?
Rights? Sentiments??? Where does the Koran or Mo say ANYTHING about rights and sentiment, our forked-tongued (beginner), deceptive (laughable) little Muslim convert?

You are applying kuffar notions to advance your destructive and oppresive Islamic doctrines which will immediately destroy the kuffar notions of rights and sentiments the moment it gains power.

No wonder you cannot be trusted in any shape or form. Lying and distortion and misrepresentation are everywhere in all Muslims apologies for Islam and you are no exception. Bwian has the same disease - cannot be honest and candid. You guys just cannot be honest and consistent and principled. It;s all about Submission, any which way.
Were you to try to be honest and consistent and truthful, the entire Islamic edifice would fall down in a heap. It's all a lie. And you can see just the type of people who fall for such a lie.

Hmmm any hypocricy here? haughtily lecturing a muslim for being two-faced and cynically using "kuffar notions" to advance a sinister agenda.... from someone who said the quote in my sig? No way, no hypocricy at all. No words, really. Or perhaps just: oh dear, tsk tsk, yawn

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted. Eye-rolling and miff are not arguments, not even from minorities.

Your inability to counter any criticism is also obvious. Getting all Emotionally Correct just shows how shifty you Muslims are. See also post on Muslim deception and lying.

You have been playing this silly game for more than a decade and the evidence for Muslim bad faith and deception is only increasing.

Have a look - Muslim credibility is going down every year. It's because you say one thing and do another. You Muslims are way past salvaging by PR spin. yet you are still trying.

Sad. Stupid. Unbelievable.

, innit.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #60 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #61 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 12:38pm Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #62 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 1:50pm

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 12:38pm:

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

tsk tsk you are still misunderstanding my use of the phrase FD. Even when I recently explained it again.

Do you reckon the quote by Frank in my sig is "absolutely correct and stand unrefuted".

Consider these two quotes, by the same person:

Quote:

oppresive Islamic doctrines which will immediately destroy the kuffar notions of rights and sentiments the moment it gains power.

Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

What do you reckon FD - who will destroy our freedoms first - the ghastly muslim, or people like Frank?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #63 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #64 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm

Quote:

Do you reckon the quote by Frank in my sig is "absolutely correct and stand unrefuted".

No.

Quote:

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #65 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 7:26pm

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

Love your work Frank.

Nice post.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #66 - Mar 15^th, 2018 at 7:51pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 7:26pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

Love your work Frank.

Nice post.

Don't be shy, Yadda. This is neither the place nor the time to be shy - include my opening remark as well. It's the 'topic sentence':

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #67 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #68 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

[quote]So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #69 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

[quote]So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

To every alternative.

Are they actually Muslim morals that the Muslims forget about while the west sneakily adopted to discredit Islam?

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #70 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:48pm

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

[quote]So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

To every alternative.

Are they actually Muslim morals that the Muslims forget about while the west sneakily adopted to discredit Islam?

I would argue that Islamic morals are not contradictory nor incompatible with western morals. Yikes! Shocked

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #71 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:10pm Yes, you would say that. Can you elaborate? How does your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme for example fit in with western liberal morals?
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92296 Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #72 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:36pm I'll ask you again Gandalf. Do you agree that Islamic morals are incompatible with Western liberal morals? Would you like to try a straight answer?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #73 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:39pm freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:10pm: Yes, you would say that. Can you elaborate? How does your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme for example fit in with western liberal morals? because its not part of Islamic morals.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #74 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:40pm Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:36pm: I'll ask you again Gandalf. Do you agree that Islamic morals are incompatible with Western liberal morals? Would you like to try a straight answer? Apologies K. Gays should be beheaded for doing it mardi gras style.
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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #75 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 3:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:40pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

I'll ask you again Gandalf. Do you agree that Islamic morals are incompatible with Western liberal morals?

Would you like to try a straight answer?

Apologies K. Gays should be beheaded for doing it mardi gras style.

There you go, FD. That's how you do it.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #76 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 3:39pm

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

Superior to ISLAMIC culture, silly.

Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Yes, Western culture is far from faultless.

And yet....

Western culture, uplifting....

Twin Towers - Before One World Trade Center

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLvdKuea5M

Western culture, meditative.....

Chopin - Complete Nocturnes (Brigitte Engerer)

https://youtu.be/liTSRH4fix4

.

But ISLAMIC culture ?

What does ISLAMIC culture produce, except
human poverty,
conflict,
oppression,
and dead bodies ?

Listen to the words, coming out of the lips of moslems, who are living among us.

The lips of moslems who supposedly came to nations in the West, seeking peace, and sanctuary from conflict...

Quote:

"Our dawa should be the dawa that attacks their [kufur] system, and we replace it with ISLAM."

"We want the whole of [kufur] society to bow down to Allah."

"This is our dawa my dear brothers and sisters."

"[do you think that our dawa will change their [kufur] society] Without attacking the law and order ?"

"...we need to behead democracy from its roots....take it, kill it, from its roots. That's what we need to do."

"We should hate it so much, my dear brothers. That every day, we should attack their [kufur] system."

"....We need to attack the law and order."

"....We need to turn around, and to attack the [kufur] society."

Islam - Religion of peace (see!!)

6 min
https://youtu.be/i96nYYcEKNw

.

Listen to how [self-described] normal moslems [in Norway] speak,

while they talk about practicing their religion, in Europe.

They are reinforcing, within themselves, what their faith, mainstream ISLAM, allows and requires of them.

OPPOSITION AND CONFLICT, WITH THOSE WHO ARE 'NOT ISLAM'.

-------- >

What Normal Muslims Think - And Europe Fails to Understand

3 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD7SfPvI_xw

QUESTION;
And what is the PRIMARY source of inspiration, for all those who identify with ISLAM, who are THE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM ???

look for yourself.....
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

SOURCE....

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

.

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293669294/0#0
Quote:

A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY.

Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.

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« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2018 at 3:49pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #77 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:15pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

To every alternative.

Are they actually Muslim morals that the Muslims forget about while the west sneakily adopted to discredit Islam?

I would argue that Islamic morals are not contradictory nor incompatible with western morals. Yikes! Shocked

Yes, you would say that. Can you elaborate? How does your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme for example fit in with western liberal morals?

because its not part of Islamic morals.

Can you elaborate Gandalf? You are not making any sense yet.

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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #78 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

You silly old cow. I would have to be 93 to be an under-20 collaborator in 1945.
And there was no 'collaboration'. On 9 April 1940, Germany invaded Denmark in Operation Weserübung and established a de facto protectorate over the country. On 29 August 1943 Germany placed Denmark under direct military occupation, which lasted until the Allied victory on 5 May 1945. Contrary to the situation in other countries under German occupation, most Danish institutions continued to function relatively normally until 1945. Both the Danish government and king remained in the country in an uneasy relationship between a democratic and a totalitarian system until the Danish government stepped down in a protest against the German demands to institute the death penalty for sabotage.

You stupid, sad, idiotic old cow.

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« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:51pm by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #79 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:51pm

Frank wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:40pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

You silly old cow.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. Obviously I hit a nerve. I'm sorry about your family's past, Soren. I mean, sending all those Jews off to Auschwitz must have been hard... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #80 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 7:09pm

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

To every alternative.

Are they actually Muslim morals that the Muslims forget about while the west sneakily adopted to discredit Islam?

I would argue that Islamic morals are not contradictory nor incompatible with western morals. Yikes! Shocked

Yes, you would say that. Can you elaborate? How does your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme for example fit in with western liberal morals?

because its not part of Islamic morals.

Can you elaborate Gandalf? You are not making any sense yet.

Sure. The alleged banu qurayza massacre is not referenced in the Quran, and therefore not part of Islamic morals. Nor is any concept of mindless collective treacherous jews.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #81 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 9:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

To every alternative.

Are they actually Muslim morals that the Muslims forget about while the west sneakily adopted to discredit Islam?

I would argue that Islamic morals are not contradictory nor incompatible with western morals. Yikes! Shocked

Yes, you would say that. Can you elaborate? How does your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme for example fit in with western liberal morals?

because its not part of Islamic morals.

Can you elaborate Gandalf? You are not making any sense yet.

Sure. The alleged banu qurayza massacre is not referenced in the Quran, and therefore not part of Islamic morals. Nor is any concept of mindless collective treacherous jews.

So why are all these Muslims here creating the treacherous Mindless Collective meme?

No individuality whatsoever.

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #82 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 7:09pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 5:15pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:39pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 2:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:48pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16am:

freediver wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

Quote:

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

Do you think they are superior Gandalf? Or do you still think they are just wishy washy western liberal morals that we cynically use to smear Islam?

superior to what?

You really do need to think more carefully before you blurt out such idiotic questions FD. Also, try to comprehend what I mean by "wishy washy western liberal morals" - I explained it again only just the other day (hint - its not actual western liberal morals).

To every alternative.

Are they actually Muslim morals that the Muslims forget about while the west sneakily adopted to discredit Islam?

I would argue that Islamic morals are not contradictory nor incompatible with western morals. Yikes! Shocked

Yes, you would say that. Can you elaborate? How does your mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme for example fit in with western liberal morals?

because its not part of Islamic morals.

Can you elaborate Gandalf? You are not making any sense yet.

Sure.

The alleged banu qurayza massacre is not referenced in the Quran,

and therefore not part of Islamic morals.

Nor is any concept of mindless collective treacherous jews.

gandalf.,

ARGUMENT;
But the massacre of the Banu Qurayza [a Jewish tribe which lived in northern Arabia]
is referenced within the authentic, the real, the accepted,       ISLAMIC cultural meme.

It is a historical cultural 'concept', and a truth, which is acknowledged as an historical fact.

It is acknowledged,
within the ISLAMIC community,
within the moslem 'collective',
within the ummah.

Therefore the massacre of the Banu Qurayza,
is referenced within the consciousness [the hive mind] of the moslem.

gandalf,

Persistently trying to deny that truth [and many others],    simply reveals ['in the world'] your own mendacious, inconvenient-truth-deflective, [ISLAMIC] hive mind.

i.e.
'Anything [any truth] which does not serve ISLAM's purpose,    is neither to be addressed nor, is it to be acknowledged.'

'That is both the way, and the virtue,    of the follower of pure ISLAM.'

'ISLAM is the virtuous path.'

'Stray not, from the true path.'

.

Quote:

Taqiyya

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives
.

If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #83 - Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:29pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 11:16pm:

ARGUMENT;
....the massacre of the Banu Qurayza [a Jewish tribe which lived in northern Arabia]
is referenced within the authentic, the real, the accepted, ISLAMIC cultural meme.

It is a historical cultural 'concept', and a truth, which is acknowledged as an historical fact.

It is acknowledged,
within the ISLAMIC community,
within the moslem 'collective',
within the ummah.

Therefore the massacre of the Banu Qurayza,
is referenced within the consciousness [the hive mind] of the moslem.

IMAGE.....

Detail from miniature painting The Prophet, Ali, and the Companions at the Massacre of the Prisoners of the Jewish Tribe of Beni Qurayzah, illustration of a 19th-century text by Muhammad Rafi Bazil. Manuscript now in the British Library.

source.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #84 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:51am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

Well, I didn't come for the Muslims, Indians Asians, Islanders, Africans, that's for sure.

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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #85 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 12:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 1:48pm:

I would argue that Islamic morals are not contradictory nor incompatible with western morals. Yikes! Shocked

Go on then, argue it.

For starters, Western liberal democracies are based on political consent completely unrelated to religious creed. Membership of civil society and political life are not determined by religion or lack of it.
Islam is fundamentally about creedal submission and there is no separation of the civic, public, political sphere and the religious.
The West has inherited the Christian principle of giving Caesar what is his. In Islamic thinking nothing is Caesar’s, everything is Allah’s and so everything is religious because all is Allah’s.

And so the social bonds of members in Western societies is completely different to the social bonds between Muslims, whether in Western countries or in Muslim countries. There is root of the incompatibility between being both members of Western societies and Muslim communities/societies. To be a Muslim is fundamentally and irreconcilably different to being a citizen of a free and democratic Western society.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #86 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:02pm

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

Well, I didn't come for the Muslims, Indians Asians, Islanders, Africans, that's for sure.

That's true, old boy. You came here to CESTERETE THEM.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #87 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:26pm

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

Well, I didn't come for the Muslims, Indians Asians, Islanders, Africans, that's for sure.

Yes, Australia has changed - for the better since you and your family came here, Soren.

Nazis aren't welcome here any more, you realise? Time you flew home, back to Denmark. I hear they need help to stop all those Muslims coming there. Your time to shine has arrived. Off you go! Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #88 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 3:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

Well, I didn't come for the Muslims, Indians Asians, Islanders, Africans, that's for sure.

Yes, Australia has changed - for the better since you and your family came here, Soren.

Nazis aren't welcome here any more, you realise? Time you flew home, back to Denmark. I hear they need help to stop all those Muslims coming there. Your time to shine has arrived. Off you go! Roll Eyes

I am not aware of any cultural or social improvement brought by Muslim, African, Islander, Chinese, Indian immigrants that did not assimilate.
The ones that assimilated and became Westernised have made great contributions. The ones who remained as if they were still back in Shitholeistan after 2-3 generation haven't. They are a burden, a totally unnecessary burden.

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Frank

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #89 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 3:29pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Yes, Australia has changed - for the better since you and your family came here, Soren.

Nazis aren't welcome here any more, you realise? Time you flew home, back to Denmark. I hear they need help to stop all those Muslims coming there. Your time to shine has arrived. Off you go! Roll Eyes

Silly cow.

You never say, 'jihadists are not welcome', or 'African or Lebanese or other ethnic crime gangs are not welcome', or 'layabout, unemployed immigrants are not welcome' or 'cheating, lying fake refugees are not welcome'.

It's only ever people who notice such things and SAY they have noticed them are not welcome and are labelled, idiotically, 'nazis'.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47369 At my desk.	Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam Reply #90 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 5:50pm Brian do you have the right or ability to criticise Nazism?
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #91 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 5:57pm

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

Well, I didn't come for the Muslims, Indians Asians, Islanders, Africans, that's for sure.

Yes, Australia has changed - for the better since you and your family came here, Soren.

Nazis aren't welcome here any more, you realise? Time you flew home, back to Denmark. I hear they need help to stop all those Muslims coming there. Your time to shine has arrived. Off you go! Roll Eyes

I am not aware of any cultural or social improvement brought by Muslim, African, Islander, Chinese, Indian immigrants that did not assimilate.
The ones that assimilated and became Westernised have made great contributions.

We're still waiting to hear the marvellous contribution made by those unassimilated cheese-snorters who continue to like Danish, old boy. At last count we only had one: "discernment".

What else have you brought?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #92 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 7:45pm

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 16^th, 2018 at 12:17am:

Frank wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 6:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15^th, 2018 at 8:33am:

Frank wrote on Mar 14^th, 2018 at 7:51pm:

The quote in your sig is absolutely correct and stand unrefuted.

Good to know.

So in future, are you going to desist from cynically using "superior" western values such as our freedoms to wank off about the moral superiority 'we' have over the muslims?

No? Never mind, I didn't really think so either.

another round of yawn, tsk tsk rolls eyes.

Evidence is not a 'wank', Abdul. Western civilisation is superior to Islam in every way, no exception.

Islam is just bad news, for Muslims and everyone else. That's why Muslims are flooding to the West and nobody is trying to get into Muslim countries, except as a wage slave.

The evidence is everywhere and it's overwhelming. Islam is bad for the human soul, for social, economic, cultural development. It is a seething resentment-creed.

You signed up to it because you were filled with seething resentment and rancour and you found a vessel to pour all that discontentment into. And now you are brewing it like the billion other Mohammedans. No-one goes to Islam for any other reason because it offers nothing else.

That was Mohammed's rallying call and that's all there is to Islam today - resentment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Tsk, tsk. I was wondering why you came to Australia all those years ago. Was it because collaborators with the Nazis weren't popular in Denmark after the war? Roll Eyes

Well, I didn't come for the Muslims, Indians Asians, Islanders, Africans, that's for sure.

Yes, Australia has changed - for the better since you and your family came here, Soren.

Nazis aren't welcome here any more, you realise? Time you flew home, back to Denmark. I hear they need help to stop all those Muslims coming there. Your time to shine has arrived. Off you go! Roll Eyes

I am not aware of any cultural or social improvement brought by Muslim, African, Islander, Chinese, Indian immigrants that did not assimilate.
The ones that assimilated and became Westernised have made great contributions. The ones who remained as if they were still back in Shitholeistan after 2-3 generation haven't. They are a burden, a totally unnecessary burden.

You mean like the Danes are? Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I'm sorry you feel you're a burden, Soren, I really, really do. I don't find you're a burden at all. "You're not heavy, you're my brother..." Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #93 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 7:50pm

Frank wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 3:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Yes, Australia has changed - for the better since you and your family came here, Soren.

Nazis aren't welcome here any more, you realise? Time you flew home, back to Denmark. I hear they need help to stop all those Muslims coming there. Your time to shine has arrived. Off you go! Roll Eyes

Silly cow.

You never say, 'jihadists are not welcome', or 'African or Lebanese or other ethnic crime gangs are not welcome', or 'layabout, unemployed immigrants are not welcome' or 'cheating, lying fake refugees are not welcome'.

It's only ever people who notice such things and SAY they have noticed them are not welcome and are labelled, idiotically, 'nazis'.

Perhaps it's 'cause they don't limit their comments to just gang members but instead decided to defame all Lebanese or all Muslims or all Africans or all Indians or all Chinese, etc.? You know, like you do? You are a Nazi, Soren. Time you went home to Denmark where your Nazism is wanted it seems. Time to stop the Muslim take over, time to ship some unfortunates off to some new concentration camps. "Arbeit macht Frei" Is emblazoned across your crest, now isn't it, Soren? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Re: Quran demands violence to impose Islam
Reply #94 - Mar 17^th, 2018 at 8:47pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 17^th, 2018 at 5:57pm: