Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 
Send Topic Print
Spot the Aboriginal.. (Read 13024 times)
Auggie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


It's War

Posts: 7277
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #390 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:53pm
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
We are no different to dogs in the diversity of our DNA and the traits that can arise or be brought out from it. Different human groups can be likened to different breeds, it's just you don't like that analogy.


I don't like that analogy because of the overtones of Eugenics in it.  Eugenics was what was replaced by Genetics.   Eugenics were used to create big, black, African-Americans (through the forced breeding of Slaves).  Eugenics were used to justify the Holocaust by the Nazis.  It was also used in South Africa and Australia to justify the treatment of the Indigenous peoples.  As far as I am concerned, Eugenics is dead.   Genetics has replaced it.   Roll Eyes


It's not a good enough reason though, is it? You are using your aversion to something, your emotions, to negate the idea there may well be and probably is differences as that's how DNA and pressures, artificial or natural, bring out.

There are life expectancy differences in different groups of humans. How do you account for this? Is it all diet or does DNA play a role like it does in dogs? A Bullterrier will be lucky to make it to 12, a Lab might make it to 18.


So are you implying that there is a connection between race and behaviour? Because that’s the ultimate question.

I don’t believe so. People of any race can learn or unlearn something.
Back to top
 

I will no longer pursue a policy of appeasement. To all the bigots, homophobes, and Islamophobes at OzPol...

CAESAR IS MARCHING WITH HIS LEGIONS.
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15972
Northern NSW
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #391 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:07pm
 
Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
We are no different to dogs in the diversity of our DNA and the traits that can arise or be brought out from it. Different human groups can be likened to different breeds, it's just you don't like that analogy.


I don't like that analogy because of the overtones of Eugenics in it.  Eugenics was what was replaced by Genetics.   Eugenics were used to create big, black, African-Americans (through the forced breeding of Slaves).  Eugenics were used to justify the Holocaust by the Nazis.  It was also used in South Africa and Australia to justify the treatment of the Indigenous peoples.  As far as I am concerned, Eugenics is dead.   Genetics has replaced it.   Roll Eyes


It's not a good enough reason though, is it? You are using your aversion to something, your emotions, to negate the idea there may well be and probably is differences as that's how DNA and pressures, artificial or natural, bring out.

There are life expectancy differences in different groups of humans. How do you account for this? Is it all diet or does DNA play a role like it does in dogs? A Bullterrier will be lucky to make it to 12, a Lab might make it to 18.


So are you implying that there is a connection between race and behaviour? Because that’s the ultimate question.

I don’t believe so. People of any race can learn or unlearn something.


No, I'm saying there are differences. This is neither good nor bad. I'm saying that to say there is no difference at all is wrong. I'm European yet Asians generally score higher in IQ than Europeans, it doesn't threaten me to acknowledge that. Or... White men can't jump... The differences have been selected for by nature/environment. We are not unequal, we are slightly different. Are there Africans that are smarter than Asian or Europeans? Sure. Are there all sorts of things you can pick that beats the other in smaller numbers, sure.
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39482
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #392 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:10pm
 
He's the one with the little red dot in the centre of his forehead.....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39482
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #393 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:18pm
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
We are no different to dogs in the diversity of our DNA and the traits that can arise or be brought out from it. Different human groups can be likened to different breeds, it's just you don't like that analogy.


I don't like that analogy because of the overtones of Eugenics in it.  Eugenics was what was replaced by Genetics.   Eugenics were used to create big, black, African-Americans (through the forced breeding of Slaves).  Eugenics were used to justify the Holocaust by the Nazis.  It was also used in South Africa and Australia to justify the treatment of the Indigenous peoples.  As far as I am concerned, Eugenics is dead.   Genetics has replaced it.   Roll Eyes


It's not a good enough reason though, is it? You are using your aversion to something, your emotions, to negate the idea there may well be and probably is differences as that's how DNA and pressures, artificial or natural, bring out.

There are life expectancy differences in different groups of humans. How do you account for this? Is it all diet or does DNA play a role like it does in dogs? A Bullterrier will be lucky to make it to 12, a Lab might make it to 18.


So are you implying that there is a connection between race and behaviour? Because that’s the ultimate question.

I don’t believe so. People of any race can learn or unlearn something.


No, I'm saying there are differences. This is neither good nor bad. I'm saying that to say there is no difference at all is wrong. I'm European yet Asians generally score higher in IQ than Europeans, it doesn't threaten me to acknowledge that. Or... White men can't jump... The differences have been selected for by nature/environment. We are not unequal, we are slightly different. Are there Africans that are smarter than Asian or Europeans? Sure. Are there all sorts of things you can pick that beats the other in smaller numbers, sure.


I beg to differ on Asians and IQ - there is a difference between demonstrable intelligence and the adage that genius is 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration.  Asians are good at the 90% - not necessarily the 10%, in which they are demonstrably mainly followers rather than initiators.

There was a girl at my school in my class who did the 90% - she knew everything - she was shocked when the IQ test results came out and I had a higher IQ than she did.... I guess she never knew I was over a year younger than she was, too... meaning I was bumped up fast and she merely toiled.  I had to battle with hunger, no clothes, hand-me-down worn-out shoes too large for my feet, no books, no nothing to aid study, no warm bedding at home and abuse and neglect to the max, while she had everything easy.

Amazing but true in 1960's Australia - and I'm not even Aboriginal..... both my parents were genius standard - my father's father was top of his profession, my father himself was #5 in the Fire Brigade seniority List and his brother a senior cop, my mother's brother was a top grade NRL referee etc, both my parents were insane...... the Army gave me my first good pair of shoes...... not a joke... at age 17, when I'd finished high school at 15.5 in the A class and final full year..... the Army paid me $10 a week and fed me...... in civilian life I could earn $4 a week at most.

So what exactly are we discussing here?  Success in life/society or intelligence per se as the gauge for evaluating intelligence?  You can teach monkeys to fly....... you can't teach them to design aircraft or fix a problem....

Huge difference.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15972
Northern NSW
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #394 - Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:50pm
 
Grap, my IQ is not to be sneezed at, I've been accepted to govt funded education based on it but I do have humility too, I know there is always someone smarter(maybe that is you!). I don't run as fast as some, I can't jump as high as others, I'm better in long distance than a sprint. Chinups kill me but situps I can do all day. There is no absolute "better", there is only different. Nature decides who is a better fit with her.

Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Peace \/ man

Posts: 15972
Northern NSW
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #395 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 12:24am
 
Auggie wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
We are no different to dogs in the diversity of our DNA and the traits that can arise or be brought out from it. Different human groups can be likened to different breeds, it's just you don't like that analogy.


I don't like that analogy because of the overtones of Eugenics in it.  Eugenics was what was replaced by Genetics.   Eugenics were used to create big, black, African-Americans (through the forced breeding of Slaves).  Eugenics were used to justify the Holocaust by the Nazis.  It was also used in South Africa and Australia to justify the treatment of the Indigenous peoples.  As far as I am concerned, Eugenics is dead.   Genetics has replaced it.   Roll Eyes


It's not a good enough reason though, is it? You are using your aversion to something, your emotions, to negate the idea there may well be and probably is differences as that's how DNA and pressures, artificial or natural, bring out.

There are life expectancy differences in different groups of humans. How do you account for this? Is it all diet or does DNA play a role like it does in dogs? A Bullterrier will be lucky to make it to 12, a Lab might make it to 18.


So are you implying that there is a connection between race and behaviour? Because that’s the ultimate question.

I don’t believe so. People of any race can learn or unlearn something.


Can you run like a Kenyan? Can you learn to? Or is it just your bloody nose that is running like a Kenyan?

Quote:
Kenyan Wilson Kipsang won this year's Berlin Marathon in 2 hours, 3 minutes and 23 seconds — an average of 4:42 per mile. It was easily the fastest marathon time ever recorded, an incredible feat for another powerful Kenyan runner.

But perhaps equally remarkable was that his fellow Kenyans also came in second, third, fourth and fifth place in this major international race. On the women's side, Kenyans placed first, second and fourth.

Two weeks later in Chicago, Kenyan runner Dennis Kimetto broke the course record there — after only having run for four years. Next in line behind him? Three more Kenyans.

"If you look at it statistically, it sort of becomes laughable," says David Epstein, senior editor at Sports Illustrated and author of the new book The Sports Gene.

He says that while we tend to think of Kenyans as really good distance runners, all these runners are actually from the same tribe of Kenyans known as the Kalenjin. They number around 5 million, making them a small minority, even in Kenya, yet they dominate most of the world's long-distance races.


https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe...
Back to top
 

nu ninda an ezzateni watar ma ekuteni
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39482
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #396 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:02am
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:50pm:
Grap, my IQ is not to be sneezed at, I've been accepted to govt funded education based on it but I do have humility too, I know there is always someone smarter(maybe that is you!). I don't run as fast as some, I can't jump as high as others, I'm better in long distance than a sprint. Chinups kill me but situps I can do all day. There is no absolute "better", there is only different. Nature decides who is a better fit with her.



Absolutely correct.  All generalisations are false... the sword has two edges...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Rhino
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 9215
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #397 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 2:13am
 
Sure. The bush Aboriginal is just different from us. We measure his IQ at around 75. Means nothing. Domestic abuse is part of his culture. Means nothing. Just different. Culturally acceptable pedophilia, just different. Killing your newborn kids as a method of population control, just different. Inability to understand how a wheel works, just different.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9877
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #398 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 10:37am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 5:14am:
If it's such a tough gig - why would anyone want to identify as Aboriginal?

For the whining and dining? Feeling of self-righteousness?


Because it is an acknowledgement of whom they are, Graps.

You identify yourself as Irish-Australian.  They identify themselves as Indigenous-Australian.  Same schtick, same gig.

Whether they carry that further is up to them but for many generations, Indigenousness was hidden, shamefully.  Why? 'cause Whites punished people for it.  They took away their Children.  They destroyed their families.   Was that fair?  Well, what do you think?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Continual perpetuation of a misguided victim mentality.

They weren't Robinson Crusoes.


You denying that they were punished for their "race", Gnads?  Really?  Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Denialist of history.  Tsk, tsk.  Next you'll be claiming that the Holocaust never occurred.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


That's not what I said or inferred.

Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9877
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #399 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 10:40am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:19pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:06pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 5:14am:
If it's such a tough gig - why would anyone want to identify as Aboriginal?

For the whining and dining? Feeling of self-righteousness?


Because it is an acknowledgement of whom they are, Graps.

You identify yourself as Irish-Australian.  They identify themselves as Indigenous-Australian.  Same schtick, same gig.

Whether they carry that further is up to them but for many generations, Indigenousness was hidden, shamefully.  Why? 'cause Whites punished people for it.  They took away their Children.  They destroyed their families.   Was that fair?  Well, what do you think?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


If there are no races, why are you, YOU, using racial categorisation, idiot?  And if 'white', 'Irish', Australian, indigenous are not racial categorisations - even though you, YOU, use them as such - what categorisations are they?  But of course you do not believe a word you are saying. Nobody does so why should you?


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I believe every word I type, Soren.   My words are based on science, yours are based on a social construct - "race".    You appear unwilling to accept the real science of Genetics for some reason.   Tsk, tsk.   Oh, and the reason why I use "racial categorisations" is because of their general use in today's society.  I would be glad to see the end of them.  Take the matter up with your fellow racists, Soren.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:
You are really gweggy, the thick WA McTurd, Bwian. Your stupidity is blatant and insolent.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


He's saying that according to you there's no difference ......... so why are you making an issue of human on human interactions of the past and qualifying it as white against black?
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Gnads
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9877
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #400 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 10:43am
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 8:12pm:
Nothing to do with Aboriginals... May I open a can of worms, Brian?

Man when he left Africa could breed with Neanderthal and Denisovians, we know that because their DNA lingers. These were not the same species, yet we bred with them, Neanderthal could not throw a spear because of the construction of his shoulder for example.

Mankind's races are more like breeds of dogs. Shared genes but different physical and cognitive abilities in general, different looks. Some placid, some warriors, some with a sense of smell that is astounding, some that take commands better than others, the list of differences is long, yet all dogs bear the same genes.

You may say that is due to selective breeding and it is but so it is with the environment and other factors with man. We have been selectively bred by our environment. We can look different which may be superficial but we can generally be different per "breed" regarding cognitive and physical abilities and traits. That's what DNA does.

I'm not saying that we should treat each other differently, only that there are differences, just as there are through evolution between men and women.

Using this to attack others is wrong but to say we are all the same is also wrong as the variation within a species is a way to make sure the species survives.


Interesting and something which isn't supported by the science.  I would suggest that initially there were several migrations out of Africa - the Denisovans, then the Neanderthals, followed by Homo Sapiens.   The first first weren't as successful as the last.  However, they were sufficient related that we managed to interbreed with them.  Rather like Lions and Tigers - they can interbreed but only with difficulties to create hybrids - Ligers and Tigons.   While we share a limited amount of DNA with them, it is strictly that - a limited amount.   Until we have firmer evidence, I cannot really comment either way.

As to Neanderthals and spears.   I've never seen that mentioned in any literature that I've read.  Where did you get that from?

As for the various "races" - we share the same Genes.  We can easily interbreed.   We are not dogs/horses/cats/etc.   We are all humans.   "Race" is a social construct, created by 19th century Anthrologists to justify the European imperialism - the domination of 'lesser races" by the supposedly superior "White race".  Genetically we are share the same genetic pool.  QED.


Alice Roberts, doctor and anthropologist.

Here's something...
Quote:
Human aerial bombardments might have pushed Neanderthals to extinction, suggests new research. Changes in bone shape left by a life of overhand throwing hint that Stone Age humans regularly threw heavy objects, such as stones or spears, while Neanderthals did not.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16091-were-neanderthals-stoned-to-death-b...


Quote:
This finding by a team of anthropologists provides an important insight into a defining moment in our ancestors’ development, when early humans evolved from hunters who killed at close-quarters to sophisticated killers capable of bringing down large beasts from a distance.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3085-neanderthals-strong-arm-tactics-reve...



We are no different to dogs in the diversity of our DNA and the traits that can arise or be brought out from it. Different human groups can be likened to different breeds, it's just you don't like that analogy.



Yes Set .... I tied making that point to him before ... not worded the same but with the same intent.
Back to top
 

Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9734
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #401 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:05pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 9:48pm:
Observable to whom, idiot? People fear young Africans because young Africans commit more crimes. Nobody fears old Scandinavian ladies because they are harmless.


Really?  Why?  No African I have ever met has threatened me.  No African I have met has ever broken a major law that I am aware of.  Appears to me that your fear of Africans is based upon media beatups, Soren.   Do you treat Africans or are you so afraid of them that you would never be alone with one?  I suspect not.  You hate Africans.  Racist.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



Grin Grin Grin

Ah, the self-referential  Bwian argument:   - no-one told me so it doesn't exist.


You idiot.




Victorian police have conceded Melbourne has a problem with African street gangs,
after earlier insisting there were no gangs in the city, as the State Government rejects criticism it has dropped the ball on the problem.


Federal MPs blast Victoria over Sudanese gangs
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9734
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #402 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:09pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:19pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I believe every word I type, Soren.   My words are based on science, yours are based on a social construct - "race".   



Science is socially constructed, thicko.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9734
Gender: male
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #403 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:28pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Mar 7th, 2018 at 11:25pm:
the legal definition of abo got changed in the 90s. now being aboriginal is a matter of identification and 'community recognition'. anyone can be abo, you just have to feel like one. in practice, you prob just have to tick your name on a box.

if you create a society where it is cool/noble or there's perceived grivance mongering to be had by identifying as a particular group, more people gonna do it. a lot of the kids in that photo would have just said they were white 50 years ago.

for all practicality's sake that is what they are.

im sure a lot of the more ancestrally 'pure' abos think this is all very comical. i know i do.


Common sense will get you nowhere these days, friend. 
Commons sense is a wacist white construct.



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of the
Maximegalon Institute

Posts: 18063
Re: Spot the Aboriginal..
Reply #404 - Mar 9th, 2018 at 6:32pm
 
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:48pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:40pm:
Setanta wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 10:25pm:
We are no different to dogs in the diversity of our DNA and the traits that can arise or be brought out from it. Different human groups can be likened to different breeds, it's just you don't like that analogy.


I don't like that analogy because of the overtones of Eugenics in it.  Eugenics was what was replaced by Genetics.   Eugenics were used to create big, black, African-Americans (through the forced breeding of Slaves).  Eugenics were used to justify the Holocaust by the Nazis.  It was also used in South Africa and Australia to justify the treatment of the Indigenous peoples.  As far as I am concerned, Eugenics is dead.   Genetics has replaced it.   Roll Eyes


It's not a good enough reason though, is it? You are using your aversion to something, your emotions, to negate the idea there may well be and probably is differences as that's how DNA and pressures, artificial or natural, bring out.

There are life expectancy differences in different groups of humans. How do you account for this? Is it all diet or does DNA play a role like it does in dogs? A Bullterrier will be lucky to make it to 12, a Lab might make it to 18.


Dogs are not humans though.   Differences in life expectancy are now changing worldwide.  It is nothing to hear about humans in Japan topping 110, same for humans in America and Australia.  It is all about care for older people, not so much about their DNA.   We can all expect to live to 80 if we careful, 90 if we extra-careful.  My own mother is 93.   I expect she'll live to 100 at least and get a telegram.   Good on her.   All thanks to Medicare.

There are no Genes which describe if a person lives longer or shorter that I am aware of, Setanta. 
Back to top
 

85% of Australians support Multiculturalism - https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/1189188/mapping-social-cohesion-national-report-2017.pdf
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 25 26 27 28 29 
Send Topic Print