Australian Politics Forum - Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration

crocodile

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #15 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:22am

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:54am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:45am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

You still haven't learned why you're wrong about this. Immigration is NOT at a level that maintains a stable population but is substantially greater than this. This population Ponzi scheme is not sustainable in the long term.

You haven't thought that one through very well. A stable population is not much use when the ratio of workers to non workers keeps diminishing.

That's a specious argument that ignores the reasons why this is happening. Immigration is adding cost pressures to infrastructure and housing that would not be as great if the population was stable. Another problem is a lack of jobs in regional areas. Reduce these cost pressures and create these jobs in regional areas, and people could live more cheaply and afford to have more children.

You're also ignoring what happens when working-age immigrants reach retirement age. Do we solve that with even more immigration? Do we send them "home"?

Another factor that reduces taxation revenue and the birthrate is the 20% of the working age population who are forced by government policy to have no work at all or insufficient work. Eradicating involuntary unemployment could do a lot to boost the spending power of this bottom quintile of the working-age population. Taxation revenues would increase, and they could afford to have more children - future taxpayers.

Specious my arse. We're living longer. In 50 years time the 65 and over will account for 25% of the population against today's 15%. How in the fukk are we going to produce the same level of goods and services with 10% less labour. You can waffle about infrastructure and all other undesirable outcomes as much as you want but it does not address the first fundamental problem.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Bam

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #16 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:25am

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:54am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:45am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

You still haven't learned why you're wrong about this. Immigration is NOT at a level that maintains a stable population but is substantially greater than this. This population Ponzi scheme is not sustainable in the long term.

You haven't thought that one through very well. A stable population is not much use when the ratio of workers to non workers keeps diminishing.

That's a specious argument that ignores the reasons why this is happening. Immigration is adding cost pressures to infrastructure and housing that would not be as great if the population was stable. Another problem is a lack of jobs in regional areas. Reduce these cost pressures and create these jobs in regional areas, and people could live more cheaply and afford to have more children.

You're also ignoring what happens when working-age immigrants reach retirement age. Do we solve that with even more immigration? Do we send them "home"?

Another factor that reduces taxation revenue and the birthrate is the 20% of the working age population who are forced by government policy to have no work at all or insufficient work. Eradicating involuntary unemployment could do a lot to boost the spending power of this bottom quintile of the working-age population. Taxation revenues would increase, and they could afford to have more children - future taxpayers.

Specious my arse. We're living longer. In 50 years time the 65 and over will account for 25% of the population against today's 15%. How in the fukk are we going to produce the same level of goods and services with 10% less labour. You can waffle about infrastructure and all other undesirable outcomes as much as you want but it does not address the first fundamental problem.

Increase the superannuation guarantee to 15% as Keating originally intended. That would solve a lot of problems with an aging population by allowing retirees to be more self-funded. Businesses can pay for that extra cost easily if payroll tax was abolished.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 99679	Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration Reply #17 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:27am Its time wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 10:26pm: It's about time we had a thread about mussies , those boongs have been copping a flogging of late I agree. First stop, the Muselman. We'll deal with the Boongs next. Matty is correct, as usual.
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crocodile

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #18 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:33am

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:54am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:45am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

You still haven't learned why you're wrong about this. Immigration is NOT at a level that maintains a stable population but is substantially greater than this. This population Ponzi scheme is not sustainable in the long term.

You haven't thought that one through very well. A stable population is not much use when the ratio of workers to non workers keeps diminishing.

That's a specious argument that ignores the reasons why this is happening. Immigration is adding cost pressures to infrastructure and housing that would not be as great if the population was stable. Another problem is a lack of jobs in regional areas. Reduce these cost pressures and create these jobs in regional areas, and people could live more cheaply and afford to have more children.

You're also ignoring what happens when working-age immigrants reach retirement age. Do we solve that with even more immigration? Do we send them "home"?

Another factor that reduces taxation revenue and the birthrate is the 20% of the working age population who are forced by government policy to have no work at all or insufficient work. Eradicating involuntary unemployment could do a lot to boost the spending power of this bottom quintile of the working-age population. Taxation revenues would increase, and they could afford to have more children - future taxpayers.

Specious my arse. We're living longer. In 50 years time the 65 and over will account for 25% of the population against today's 15%. How in the fukk are we going to produce the same level of goods and services with 10% less labour. You can waffle about infrastructure and all other undesirable outcomes as much as you want but it does not address the first fundamental problem.

Increase the superannuation guarantee to 15% as Keating originally intended. That would solve a lot of problems with an aging population by allowing retirees to be more self-funded. Businesses can pay for that extra cost easily if payroll tax was abolished.

It doesn't matter how much money the retirees have in their claw. They can only purchase what is produced. How do you intend to satisfy the production needs with less labour.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #19 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:36am

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

Its amazing the number of people advocate high immigration that can not articulate a solution to how the states infrastructure can keep up with it.

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Bam

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #20 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 12:08pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:33am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:25am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:54am:

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:45am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

You still haven't learned why you're wrong about this. Immigration is NOT at a level that maintains a stable population but is substantially greater than this. This population Ponzi scheme is not sustainable in the long term.

You haven't thought that one through very well. A stable population is not much use when the ratio of workers to non workers keeps diminishing.

That's a specious argument that ignores the reasons why this is happening. Immigration is adding cost pressures to infrastructure and housing that would not be as great if the population was stable. Another problem is a lack of jobs in regional areas. Reduce these cost pressures and create these jobs in regional areas, and people could live more cheaply and afford to have more children.

You're also ignoring what happens when working-age immigrants reach retirement age. Do we solve that with even more immigration? Do we send them "home"?

Another factor that reduces taxation revenue and the birthrate is the 20% of the working age population who are forced by government policy to have no work at all or insufficient work. Eradicating involuntary unemployment could do a lot to boost the spending power of this bottom quintile of the working-age population. Taxation revenues would increase, and they could afford to have more children - future taxpayers.

Specious my arse. We're living longer. In 50 years time the 65 and over will account for 25% of the population against today's 15%. How in the fukk are we going to produce the same level of goods and services with 10% less labour. You can waffle about infrastructure and all other undesirable outcomes as much as you want but it does not address the first fundamental problem.

Increase the superannuation guarantee to 15% as Keating originally intended. That would solve a lot of problems with an aging population by allowing retirees to be more self-funded. Businesses can pay for that extra cost easily if payroll tax was abolished.

It doesn't matter how much money the retirees have in their claw. They can only purchase what is produced. How do you intend to satisfy the production needs with less labour.

Your argument is relying on false assumptions. The labour IS available, but is not currently being utilised. How can you assert that there isn't the labour available when 10% to 20% of the workforce doesn't have enough work?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #21 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 1:06pm

Its time wrote on Feb 25^th, 2018 at 10:26pm:

It's about time we had a thread about mussies , those boongs have been copping a flogging of late

Plenty to spread around... let 'em have a taste of it.... they cop a flogging because they deserve it....they could always change their ways and earn respect......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #22 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 1:10pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

Please expand? How is bringing in masses of people assisting in any way the 'problem' of aging population?

By diluting the available workforce so that super is not as viable for the many currently working, thus affecting retirement funding?

By placing added burdens on the social security budget so as to ensure that the aging population is targeted as a 'burden'?

Why is it 'necessary' to bring in hordes of illiterate and anathemic people who have no affiliation to this nation or its people, and no interest in the prosperity of the nation? Surely we could find some tame Irish or English or German or something.....

Methinks you are sweeping the dust under the carpet with a wide broom here..... so please explain?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #23 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 1:36pm

I remember the Australia first party and the way they were vilified as Fascists and tyrants for wanting to reduce immigration from Third World nations with a populace inimical to Australian ways...

Thirty years later the worm turns.... a New Messiah arises from the ashes of defeat ....a distant rumble of thunder is heard ..... there are signs and portents in the skies and the Tiber runs red like blood..... Tony has crossed the Rubicon ..... (or was that the Rube Con?)......

No wonder people offshore think we are a nation of drongoes.... thing is - it's our political 'leadership' who are drongoes and have not the best interests of this nation at heart... but I assume, in conjunction with a 'fair go for all Aussies' - that's bordering on National Socialism......

Tony is at least listening to the howling gale going on about the current immigration policies and mix..... how will he reconcile this latest stand with the idea that we 'need' an endless supply of fresh meat to sustain the staggering economy based on fresh air and promises and never-ending expansion? Any fool can see, with half an eye, that you cannot 'expand' indefinitely..... and under what terms is this 'expansion' continuing?

It seems from endless reports that Gypoes are buying houses from the proceeds of crime first, and embarking on a course of self-enrichment , rather than working to sustain a mortgage..... meanwhile the entire housing bubble on which 'expansion' is built is excluding those who are genuinely in it for the long term..... none of this is a solid expansion of anything but trouble and strife....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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crocodile

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #24 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 2:42pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 11:36am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 10:09am:

Amazing how people advocate for dropping immigration but can't articulate a solution to the fact that the population is aging.

Its amazing the number of people advocate high immigration that can not articulate a solution to how the states infrastructure can keep up with it.

I don't know anybody like that. However, simply cutting migration numbers without attention to the effects has less than desirable consequences as well. It's OK for Abbott and Smith to keep banging on about it but until they can propose a solution as well it is just chest beating.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: Abbott is right, we need to reduce immigration
Reply #25 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 2:45pm

Bam wrote on Feb 26^th, 2018 at 12:08pm: