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This guy should be banned for life ! (Read 6828 times)
RightSaidFred
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #45 - Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:23pm
 
Gordon wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:20pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:15pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:11pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:05pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 4:21pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 3:47pm:
The problem is that most people who have killed or maimed others on the roads also think that they have acute multi-tasking skills.

It only takes a split second for something disastrous to happen and if you are on the phone at that precise moment you are behind the eight ball reaction wise.


I'm not talking about texting when you're traveling at 30 meters per second.

Managing a phone conversation in normal follow the leader Sydney traffic isn't too hard.


Depends on the conversation, I guess you could text while waiting at lights but unless its urgent not really needed.

I often have to dial into big meetings when I am out and about ..... most of them I might talk for a few minutes but I am mostly just listening. Means I can leave work early..


Yup. A complicated technical discussion on the M5, not good. Hey I'm 15 late, see you soon, no probs.


Only 15 minute late on the M5 that is very good when it clogs up its a disaster area.


Have you noticed the different vibe on the M5? So agro.

I call the M5 tunnel the tunnel to Mordor

Yes that is one road I generally avoid living where I do I rarely ever have to use it.
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Aussie
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #46 - Feb 18th, 2018 at 6:41pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:13pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:06pm:
cods wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
it would appear we cant live without being on them 24/7..


Yes and it is particularly irritating having to suffer listening to many different conversations in public places when you just want to think your own thoughts OR eat your dinner in peace.

There is absolutely no valid reason to text whilst driving.   If you absolutely NEED to text   ...   PULL OVER!!



this young cop has lost his foot   thanks to someone who broke the law...

it is after all against the law to use a phone on the road....

at the end of the day   this could have been anyone!!!..

3 lives ruined    for what??????? Angry Angry


Absolutely spot on.


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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #47 - Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:50pm
 
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 6:27am:
For an old car you can buy a bluetooth adaptor for less than $50 bucks most modern cars even base models all seem to have bluetooth there is no excuse for not at least using hands free, I see many on low incomes with expensive phones so there is no excuse. as for the fine does not matter what it is if its not thoroughly enforced, waiting for a major accident to apply the rule is rather pathetic.


So, am I charging my phone on these adaptors (one for an iphone)?

There has been an increasing need for me to figure out a way to charge my phone and hands-free answer my phone for calls I seem to get. But I am quite happy to pull over and redial the missed call.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #48 - Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:52pm
 
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 6:34am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 2:24am:
Setanta wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 1:11am:
Fines should be income adjusted. IE a percentage of income.


Yeah, that would make sense.


How would it make sense ?
So someone on the dole continually breaks the law with no real consequence ?
Someone working in the black economy (many on the dole do this) would get cheap fines. Don't even get started on company owners who often report little to no income .... its a dumb idea all the way round !

Easiest way to punish people is take away their license.


Admittedly, I would agree that this is right, and withdraw my agreement that fines should be income adjusted.
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Setanta
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #49 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:00am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:52pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 6:34am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 2:24am:
Setanta wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 1:11am:
Fines should be income adjusted. IE a percentage of income.


Yeah, that would make sense.


How would it make sense ?
So someone on the dole continually breaks the law with no real consequence ?
Someone working in the black economy (many on the dole do this) would get cheap fines. Don't even get started on company owners who often report little to no income .... its a dumb idea all the way round !

Easiest way to punish people is take away their license.


Admittedly, I would agree that this is right, and withdraw my agreement that fines should be income adjusted.


So you are up for balck&white? If someone breaks the speed limit, rescind their license straight up? RSF is using extremes to try and avoid the fact that fixed fines penalise those less well off and let wealthy people go Meh! The more wealthy you are the less fines will affect you. Mind you I have not accrued a demerit point in over 30 years. A fine is supposed to make you hurt a little in your hip pocket, a disincentive to do it again.

A $300 fine is an hours work for Greg, it's 3/4's of a fortnights income for someone unemployed, and one third of a wage earners weekly pay. This is why it needs to be income adjusted.
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:10am by Setanta »  
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #50 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:08am
 
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 8:04am:
The other issue is getting people to admit in an accident situation they were on their mobiles. Phones can be scrubbed .... I find it odd this guy confessed he was on his mobile. Its a weird thing people think using a mobile is a right no matter where they are makes for funny youtube videos and sadly people have died looking at their phone.
People wonder down the street in zombie mode glued to there phones I deliberately walk into them they expect you to get out of there way.


There have only been one person I know that got fined for using their phone in the car. That one being the guy that pulled over to answer a phone and leaving his car running. A young lady I knew would use her phone in her car constantly for work purposes. I would assume she no longer does this.

The other issue about phone calls and text messaging being deleted on their phones is that phone calls and text messages can be (and are) registered to the phone company. Telstra has a log of all calls being made, regardless of whether you delete any record of them on your phone. The police can do a search through records (probably with a warrant -- but perhaps not) of mobile phones in the area that were on at the time of an accident, and then find out the phone number of the driver in the accident. But I would assume that they would do so in severe situations, like this accident, had the driver not admitted to using his/her phone.

Quote:
The only way I can see stopping people using their mobiles in cars is jamming devices which are currently illegal. Also they can not be limited to the car. Also there is nothing wrong with a car passenger using a mobile.


That is ridiculous. There are times when you are allowed to use your mobile whilst driving. Extenuating circumstances like an emergency will allow a driver to avoid a fine and penalties for using a phone whilst driving. The only time a jamming device needs to be employed in this country is during a bomb threat.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #51 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:19am
 
Setanta wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:00am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:52pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 6:34am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 2:24am:
Setanta wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 1:11am:
Fines should be income adjusted. IE a percentage of income.


Yeah, that would make sense.


How would it make sense ?
So someone on the dole continually breaks the law with no real consequence ?
Someone working in the black economy (many on the dole do this) would get cheap fines. Don't even get started on company owners who often report little to no income .... its a dumb idea all the way round !

Easiest way to punish people is take away their license.


Admittedly, I would agree that this is right, and withdraw my agreement that fines should be income adjusted.


So you are up for balck&white? If someone breaks the speed limit, rescind their license straight up? RSF is using extremes to try and avoid the fact that fixed fines penalise those less well off and let wealthy people go Meh! The more wealthy you are the less fines will affect you. Mind you I have not accrued a demerit point in over 30 years. A fine is supposed to make you hurt a little in your hip pocket, a disincentive to do it again.


From my understanding, police officers don't book motorists if they do less than 8kmh over the speed limit. Although they can fine someone, they have a very strict rule of not to fining anyone for doing under 5kmh over the speed limit. Most officers I know have told me that they try for anyone that does 10 or more. But they like to go for the $200+ fines of 13 to 20kmh over the speed limit speedsters.

I have spoken to multimillionaires about their speeding habits. A retiring multimillionaire of a business (and of course he did not live around Rockhampton when I spoke to him). He told me that he would accept a speeding fine and just pay it. The only thing is that he would accrue demerit points to an extent of not being able to drive, if he kept on speeding. Had he lost his licence from traffic violations, he would suffer the indignity of not being able to drive for a while, and he might suffer in business from bad press.

I agree with RSF. Demerit points are enough of an incentive to avoid doing things that could result in being penalised. But immediate licence suspension should only be for times when serious traffic violations occur.
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Setanta
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #52 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:23am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:19am:
Setanta wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:00am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 11:52pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 6:34am:
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 2:24am:
Setanta wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 1:11am:
Fines should be income adjusted. IE a percentage of income.


Yeah, that would make sense.


How would it make sense ?
So someone on the dole continually breaks the law with no real consequence ?
Someone working in the black economy (many on the dole do this) would get cheap fines. Don't even get started on company owners who often report little to no income .... its a dumb idea all the way round !

Easiest way to punish people is take away their license.


Admittedly, I would agree that this is right, and withdraw my agreement that fines should be income adjusted.


So you are up for balck&white? If someone breaks the speed limit, rescind their license straight up? RSF is using extremes to try and avoid the fact that fixed fines penalise those less well off and let wealthy people go Meh! The more wealthy you are the less fines will affect you. Mind you I have not accrued a demerit point in over 30 years. A fine is supposed to make you hurt a little in your hip pocket, a disincentive to do it again.


From my understanding, police officers don't book motorists if they do less than 8kmh over the speed limit. Although they can fine someone, they have a very strict rule of not to fining anyone for doing under 5kmh over the speed limit. Most officers I know have told me that they try for anyone that does 10 or more. But they like to go for the $200+ fines of 13 to 20kmh over the speed limit speedsters.

I have spoken to multimillionaires about their speeding habits. A retiring multimillionaire of a business (and of course he did not live around Rockhampton when I spoke to him). He told me that he would accept a speeding fine and just pay it. The only thing is that he would accrue demerit points to an extent of not being able to drive, if he kept on speeding. Had he lost his licence from traffic violations, he would suffer the indignity of not being able to drive for a while, and he might suffer in business from bad press.

I agree with RSF. Demerit points are enough of an incentive to avoid doing things that could result in being penalised. But immediate licence suspension should only be for times when serious traffic violations occur.


They can book you for going 1k over. A millionaire can pay someone to drive them around, can you?

If you want to do away with fines altogether and rely on demerits, that's one thing, but if there are fines in place, the only fair way is via income adjusted fines.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #53 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:41am
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
I've seen firies, ambos and coppers all driving while on their phone.  They get off because they are 'on duty.'

Pig's arse.


I think I would rather be saved by a policeman, fireman, or ambulance worker who get and place calls whilst they are driving, rather than wait another 5 minutes for someone to get to me because they had not received a call or radio transmission.

Bad guys have police radio frequencies, too. Making phone calls to avoid radio detection is a good strategy for police.
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Setanta
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #54 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:51am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:41am:
Aussie wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
I've seen firies, ambos and coppers all driving while on their phone.  They get off because they are 'on duty.'

Pig's arse.


I think I would rather be saved by a policeman, fireman, or ambulance worker who get and place calls whilst they are driving, rather than wait another 5 minutes for someone to get to me because they had not received a call or radio transmission.

Bad guys have police radio frequencies, too. Making phone calls to avoid radio detection is a good strategy for police.


All emergency workers are allowed to use mobiles while driving, full stop. It may be their only means of communication in an emergency and may not be with others that have radio. Perfectly understandable, like cops carrying guns when others are not allowed.

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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #55 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:10am
 
Setanta wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:23am:
They can book you for going 1k over. A millionaire can pay someone to drive them around, can you?


Yes. Police can fine you for doing 1kmh over the speed limit. But they don't. Because then the public would get into an uproar about it.
Years ago, a woman was fined in Brisbane for doing 80kmh in a 100kmh motorway. Her reasoning for her slowness: her daughter had recently had an operation, and she did not want to exacerbate the pain her daughter was in with a higher speed. The public wrote in to show no sympathy for her. Whatever her reasoning, they said, she could have pulled off the road and allowed the traffic backing up behind her to pass at a normal speed. People said that she caused road rage and could have unsettled/distracted drivers to the point of causing an imminent accident.

A taxi driver can drive me around. Other than that, I have a bike I can use to go small distances.

Quote:
If you want to do away with fines altogether and rely on demerits, that's one thing, but if there are fines in place, the only fair way is via income adjusted fines.


People who earn a living in higher income jobs should not be penalised further than a low-income earner because of socioeconomic circumstance. What next? Making millionaires pay more for a meat pie, or groceries (for that matter) because they earn more?
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Setanta
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #56 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:26am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:10am:
Setanta wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 12:23am:
They can book you for going 1k over. A millionaire can pay someone to drive them around, can you?


Yes. Police can fine you for doing 1kmh over the speed limit. But they don't. Because then the public would get into an uproar about it.
Years ago, a woman was fined in Brisbane for doing 80kmh in a 100kmh motorway. Her reasoning for her slowness: her daughter had recently had an operation, and she did not want to exacerbate the pain her daughter was in with a higher speed. The public wrote in to show no sympathy for her. Whatever her reasoning, they said, she could have pulled off the road and allowed the traffic backing up behind her to pass at a normal speed. People said that she caused road rage and could have unsettled/distracted drivers to the point of causing an imminent accident.

A taxi driver can drive me around. Other than that, I have a bike I can use to go small distances.

Quote:
If you want to do away with fines altogether and rely on demerits, that's one thing, but if there are fines in place, the only fair way is via income adjusted fines.


People who earn a living in higher income jobs should not be penalised further than a low-income earner because of socioeconomic circumstance. What next? Making millionaires pay more for a meat pie, or groceries (for that matter) because they earn more?


All cars speedos can be up to 10% lower than the actual speed but cannot be above actual speed, ADR. If they bust you speeding you have no excuse.

Paying for a pie is not the same as paying a fine. A fine is meant to be a deterrent, not a meal. If fines have no deterrent value for some, why have them at all? As a deterrent, would Greg miss an hours pay? Would you miss 20 hours pay? Are they equivalent?

Greg will survive quiet well losing an hours pay, he won't even notice it gone, how will you, your wife and kids go losing close to half a weeks pay when you can barely make ends meet as it is?

Having set fines punishes some far more than others.
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2018 at 1:35am by Setanta »  
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #57 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 2:34am
 
Setanta, as part of the speedsters involuntarily getting fined club, I happen to know that you can pay off your fines at a rate of $10 per week. I had my Centrelink payments deducted by $20/fortnight to pay off a $294 fine in 2010 and a $375 fine in 2012. I did not feel the pain of the fine because it was only $20 a fortnight. On both occasions, I simply went without having booze for 6 months. Just budgeted $20 a fortnight better for groceries. Barely a noticeable difference. However, my demerit points were accumulated for both fines, which made me think twice about speeding -- even when my 2012 speeding fine was bogus.
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RightSaidFred
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #58 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 6:09am
 
Gordon wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:20pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:15pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:11pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 5:05pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 4:21pm:
Black Orchid wrote on Feb 18th, 2018 at 3:47pm:
The problem is that most people who have killed or maimed others on the roads also think that they have acute multi-tasking skills.

It only takes a split second for something disastrous to happen and if you are on the phone at that precise moment you are behind the eight ball reaction wise.


I'm not talking about texting when you're traveling at 30 meters per second.

Managing a phone conversation in normal follow the leader Sydney traffic isn't too hard.


Depends on the conversation, I guess you could text while waiting at lights but unless its urgent not really needed.

I often have to dial into big meetings when I am out and about ..... most of them I might talk for a few minutes but I am mostly just listening. Means I can leave work early..


Yup. A complicated technical discussion on the M5, not good. Hey I'm 15 late, see you soon, no probs.


Only 15 minute late on the M5 that is very good when it clogs up its a disaster area.


Have you noticed the different vibe on the M5? So agro.

I call the M5 tunnel the tunnel to Mordor


Its mostly on the other side of Sydney for us Stuck up Northern Beaches types Smiley If I am down that way I use it sparingly and usually check out the traffic reports .... in the past I have been stuck in big jams on that piece of crap.

WRT the M2/M7 the only scary issue is the speeding big semi's very rarely do you bad traffic jams. They do happen but nothing like what I hear about regularly on the M5.
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RightSaidFred
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Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #59 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 6:32am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Feb 19th, 2018 at 2:34am:
Setanta, as part of the speedsters involuntarily getting fined club, I happen to know that you can pay off your fines at a rate of $10 per week. I had my Centrelink payments deducted by $20/fortnight to pay off a $294 fine in 2010 and a $375 fine in 2012. I did not feel the pain of the fine because it was only $20 a fortnight. On both occasions, I simply went without having booze for 6 months. Just budgeted $20 a fortnight better for groceries. Barely a noticeable difference. However, my demerit points were accumulated for both fines, which made me think twice about speeding -- even when my 2012 speeding fine was bogus.


The only flaw I have seen is with speed camera fines you can claim your pet dog was driving WRT to points. I know a few rich guys with multiple DUI's and demerit points who often claim their wife was driving. You kind of prove one of my posts where the weird flawed income based fines just won't work ..... current fines are not deterring you on welfare but the points system is.

I remember a few years back a Truckie arguing that professional drivers like Truckies should have more points as they drive more ...... I actually think the opposite, I would put them on P-Plater points ! If you need your license for income then you really need to respect the law.
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