Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 
Send Topic Print
This guy should be banned for life ! (Read 3963 times)
goldkam
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 263
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #105 - Feb 20th, 2018 at 7:17pm
 
Valkie wrote on Feb 20th, 2018 at 5:07pm:
Quote:
No doubt many of our roads are poorly maintained and are continuing to deteriorate, however the correlation between that and dangerous driving is a far fetching comment. The science behind your first point in true, however you add speed, distractions and inexperience into this situation and collectively they cause crashes.

To your next point "pulling out in front of an oncoming vehicle is one of eleven categories with just over 1500 crashes occurring this way in 2016.

Speed is not the sole factor that kills, however it contributes to a vast majority of crashes. Denying statistics and facts that have been provided by governments and various other institutions is ignorant. To further progress my point you cannot simply put out a blanket statement which has no evidence to support this claim. If you can highlight how speeding doesn't kill, provide a reason and statistics instead of just your perception.

According to NSW Transport speed is a factor in over 40% of crashes, if you deny this you are in fact contributing to the problem and the poor culture of todays society. 

At no point did I deny that there were not other factors, of course there are. It would be preposterous to state otherwise.

I don't disagree with your point, there should be much stricter and stringent testing and courses relating to getting you license.

Every single day I drive on the road I get passed by 95% of traffic.....why....because they are speeding. Speeding is a cultural issue that through statistics can be proven as a worthy issue on our roads. The people who highlight it as a profitability are the ones who are getting caught, the ones who slow down for speed camera and speed up once past, the ones who ignore the primary issue pertaining to driving crashes and the primary ones who blame the roads not the human beings driving and in control of the vehicles.   


Spped, as you have pointed out, will always be involved, however only because you have to actually be moving.

What about the argument,
"If i just went a few Klm/hr faster, I wouldn't have been where the car pulled out at all"

How many accident have been avoided because the car was further down the road than it would have been had it not been speeding?

This is an extrapolation on the illogical argument govco uses to blame speeding.
If the guy in the example had been going faster, he would have been past the guy pulling out before he got to the intersection.
Is this not logical?

You say 95% of driver pass you and you are doing the speed limit, Thats fair enough, no problem.
When I drive with my boat on the back of my car, I travel at what I consider a safe speed.
Usually slower than the posted speed limit and never over 100klm/hr.
This is my choice based on pulling a 1, 1/2 ton boat behind a less than 1 ton of car.

But, if 95% travel faster than you, at the speed limit.
If speed kills why are these 95% of drivers not crashing all over the road?
Why are you not surrounded by carnage?
Because speed itself is not a major factor.
INAPPROPRIATE SPEED IS.

And inappropriate speed can be and often is the posted speed limit under certain conditions.

So, where does that leave us?
Inappropriate speed is the real killer, but its dependent on the conditions and ability of the driver.
This is far too hard for govco, so they look at the lowest common denominator.
Then they post a sped limit without taking into account the other factors.
Therefore they are remiss in not considering these factors.

Then they look at a means by which they can make revenue from the deaths of these people.
Bingo, speed cameras.



To your first point to apply this to every situation is absurd, which is the reason why I have not. However every kilometre makes a difference, I support this point through scientific research and scientific tests. I will explain how that guy who pulls out in front could either get cleaned up or be missed. If the listed speed was, for arguments sake 60km/hr and an individual was speeding doing say 80km/hr. It would take 24 metres longer to stop, 24 metres that that one car behind may not have. No doubt I am not denying speed is the primary or sole factor but please do not deny that slowing down a few kilometres won't make a difference. It is proven empirically. Explain that to families who have lost their children or family members on the road, in cases it does happen, your point is logical in some circumstances.

To your second point. I have stated it in this post and others. Please don't put words in my mouth. I have stipulated it is a primary causer of road accidents, highlighted through 40% of road accidents being attributed to by speed. Your statement is similar to a proposition such as this "95% of people I saw today were fathers.....that means 95% are domestic violence perpetrators.

I do agree with you that yes inappropriate speed is also a factor, a major factor. I pose this....if you are doing nothing wrong on the roads why are speed cameras a concern. If they slow down one idiot from 100km/hr to 60km/hr, well I say it is worth it. Precaution is necessary.   
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6608
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #106 - Feb 21st, 2018 at 4:05am
 
You see, this is how the mantra works.
"Speed kills"
Repeat it often enough, put forward enough false arguments, and people believe it.

It's called PROPAGANDA,  convince the masses with what ever facts you present.

Speed does not kill.
If speed killed, 90 percent of the population, hell  percent of the population would be dead.
Speed is an intangible, distance over time.

Aircraft travel many many times faster than a car can.
Does that make it more dangerous?
Of course not.

But in certain condition with specific parameters, speed can be a contributing factor.
40% is rubbish.
We know the grubberment will not give up this lucrative revenue stream, so they propagate lies to justify the stupidity of speed enforcement.
Accurate honest studies from overseas have found that less than 10% of accidents are directly caused by speeding (inappropriate speed)
It would be illogical to think Australia would be any different.

Assuming speeding (inappropriate speed) contributes to let's say 15% of accidents.
What does the other 85% represent?
Drunk, drugged, defective vehicles, just plain incompetent drivers, poor roads, bad design etc etc etc.

But we have a greedy, lazy grubberment who love speed regulation.
It's easy, proven without any real cost, and is instant money.
90% of the grubberment policy on preventing road trauma is focussed on speed detection, in most cases, AFTER THE FACT.
In other words, not stopping it at the time of the incident, but weeks or months later FINING the person.
Is this a policy designed to stop an act, or simply to raise revenue?

Policing drug use, alcohol abuse, bad driving, defective vehicles and, heaven forbid, fixing roads, all cost money.
What's a few lives to the grubberment when they can greedily suck money from drivers going a few klm/hr over the speed limit while still driving safely and well within their capability.
The grubberment will continue the false mantra about speed kills.
Because it wants your money.
It cares not about you or your family as anything other than a revenue stream.

FIX the roads
Get defective vehicles off the road.
Get bad drivers off the road
Get the drunk and drugged off the road
These are the things that would lower the road toll
Not booking people for travelling a snakes pace faster than some fictitious speed limit.

In 40 years of driving I have had 3 cars written off.
Two while stationary.
All three have involved the other drivers being drunk.
Just think, if drunk drivers had not been on the road, these would not have happened.
In none of the accidents were either I nor the drunk speeding.

Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Stig
Senior Member
****
Offline


>_<

Posts: 318
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #107 - Feb 21st, 2018 at 7:07am
 
goldkam wrote on Feb 20th, 2018 at 7:03pm:
Stig wrote on Feb 20th, 2018 at 7:31am:
goldkam wrote on Feb 20th, 2018 at 5:18am:
According to NSW Transport speed is a factor in over 40% of crashes, if you deny this you are in fact contributing to the problem and the poor culture of todays society. 


The saying that there's lies, damn lies and statistics applies here. The "over 40%" used to justify our nanny-state speed enforcement regime is actually made up of several different figures.

- vehicles that were speeding at the time of an accident, and could have avoided the accident if they weren't speeding
- vehicles that were speeding at the time of an accident, and could NOT have avoided the accident if they weren't speeding
- vehicles that were NOT speeding at the time of an accident, however their speed was judged to be inappropriate for the conditions anyway.

The government then combines all three and uses it as a justification for more speed cameras, when in reality only a small proportion of accidents are caused by true speed.

It also doesn't wash when you look at figures from other countries. In the UK for example, their government road safety body mentions speed accounting for just 3% of accidents.




We are far from a nanny state in relation to speed enforcement. I am unable to find those statistics, where it consists of different categories. So I am unsure as to where you conjured that from. Despite that your point is not proven any further.


Yes it is - here:- http://roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/49.html

Perhaps you should ask yourself why the RMS view of speeding in relation to accidents is so vastly out of kilter compared to statistics from other countries.

As for speed cameras - they are designed mostly to catch low range speeders and gather revenue. The idiot who is drunk and doing twice the limit towards your kids at a pedestrian crossing isn't stopped by sending him a letter two weeks later in the mail.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
goldkam
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 263
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #108 - Feb 21st, 2018 at 9:47pm
 
To your first point. My arguments are supported by facts and statistics from both the NSW Government, NSW Police and third party sites. It seems everyone wants to deny these facts and replace them with interpretations or "false arguments" based on experience or what was fed to them. If we are going to be that critical and deny facts and statistics society everyone may as well question and put forth broad statements, for instance a simple statement such as "Australia's population is 24.13 million" or "Australia's road deaths in 2017 were 1,225" should now be questioned. It is absurd.

To your second point. We are not living in the Stalinist era of the Soviet Union or North Korea under the dictatorship of Kim Jong Un. Statistics and facts from reputable sources, check the definition and introduce yourself to statistics and facts. Don't disguise your ignorance with propaganda.

To your third point. You seem to be altering and manipulating my original argument.  I have never stated speeding is the sole factor for killing on our roads. When combining it with poor driving, dangerous or wet conditions, distractions and other drivers (according to statistics, because I utilise statistics to prove my points not merely what I have heard) it is one of the primary factors. From that statement it highlights you believe speed does not play any factor in deaths or accidents on our roads, which is being highly ignorant and negligent.

To your fourth point. To make a statement such as this one highlights the instability of your argument. So a V8 Supercar or Aussie Racing Cars for example are travelling at higher speeds.....does that make it more dangerous. To an extent yes however they to have higher bands of safety in relation to construction, handling and maintenance that ensure they can handle the speeds. The same notions apply to planes. This does not prove to me your point any further by putting forth such an interpretive and far reaching statement.

To your next point. It is all well and good to inform myself of certain percentages but without referencing a source or providing a website highlights your point has no integrity or validity. From this what you are essentially implying is Australia is not different in any way to other countries, with no good reason or validation. We in fact are very different culturally, economically, population wise and societally. This further indicates the weakness of your argument.

To your sixth point. No doubt it does, I have never and will never deny any of them as not factors involved in road accidents.

To your next point. Speed limits have been in place since the early 1900's. Thus speeding obviously on a different level has been 'raising money' for decades. Thus for you to state the government (or "gruberment") as a singular noun, makes me question whether your real issue is the speeding, or just the current government. To add onto this notion I am not denying the government is leading Australia in a positive or advantageous way, far from it.

To your eighth point. Another clear example of you creating statistics based on merely perception rather than fact. If this is factual provide details or sources from which these details are from.

The main federal legislation pertaining to driving but not solely related to speeding includes the following:
Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989, Motor Vehicle Standards Regulations 1989 and Road Transport Act (this act contains 2 of over 30 parts pertaining to speeding)

The link to support this notion- austilli.com.au

This highlights the instability and lack of integrity relating to your arguments, as only a small amount of one piece of legislation pertains to speeding.

To your next point. Your not a revenue stream if your doing the correct thing and obeying the law. If you are not doing anything wrong, why would you perceive yourself as a revenue stream (in relation to speeding) ???

I don't disagree with the problems you have listed, they too need to be addressed.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39444
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #109 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 1:54am
 
So statistics mean there is no leeway for personal or individual differences?

Sounds hopelessly Stalinist to me....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Ye Grappler
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39444
Mid-North Coast NSW
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #110 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:03am
 
Stig wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 7:07am:
Yes it is - here:- http://roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/49.html

Perhaps you should ask yourself why the RMS view of speeding in relation to accidents is so vastly out of kilter compared to statistics from other countries.

As for speed cameras - they are designed mostly to catch low range speeders and gather revenue. The idiot who is drunk and doing twice the limit towards your kids at a pedestrian crossing isn't stopped by sending him a letter two weeks later in the mail.



As is their PCA - NO nation of the West has a reading under 0.08...... yet we apply the ludicrous standard of two schooners in an hour........

You have to ask yourself why... I do....

My answer is that it gives the government a measure of social control and allows it to generate 'created criminals' for doing something mundane and ordinary, and it allows that government to take money out of the pockets of the 'lower' in order to sustain itself in its self appointed supreme position in society, rather than it being a servant of society and the people who compose it.

Take a clear and unemotional and unbiased look at certain other areas in which the ordinary citizen can be instantly turned into a 'created criminal', and thus will lose personal and political power..... and ask yourself the reason why...... that's the way it's been here for 230 years.... only now is it beginning to become apparent to many that this is nothing but a control game..... and has nothing to do with law and its properly intended use.

Law is not sacred - and it can be perverted to any of a number of uses and purposes ... some keep ranting about North Korea... Kim Ill Dong is there by 'lawful' exercise of the 'democratic rights' of the people... so was every other despotic dicator in history......

Law is not just an end in itself... it is the path by which reason and humanity may prevail.......

Heed this warning, Grasshopper.......
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
goldkam
Senior Member
****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 263
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #111 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:06pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 1:54am:
So statistics mean there is no leeway for personal or individual differences?

Sounds hopelessly Stalinist to me....


No, statistics aid in supporting what your opinion is. When comparing statistics and facts by one person against opinion and personal experience by another it is clear which one provides the better and clearer argument.

To your point I never highlighted that notion, this was implied by you.

You seem to be accusing me of aligning myself with Stalinist doctrine. Stalin never supported himself with facts or statistics during his rule in the Soviet Union. He merely backed his acts by authority and superiority. What I am doing is far more Marxist and following purist communism.

Do you actually understand that what Stalinist means???      
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 83249
Gender: female
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #112 - Feb 26th, 2018 at 10:48am
 

Yes!

"WA’s former top cop has urged the State Government to dramatically increase penalties for using a mobile phone while driving to more accurately reflect the deadly threat that distracted drivers pose.

"Former police commissioner Karl O’Callaghan said current penalties were having little impact on driver behaviour and he believed motorists should instead be hit with a more serious offence such as dangerous driving which carried a fine of up to $3000 and six demerit points for first offenders.

"Second offenders would face an automatic 12-month licence ban and the possibility of up to nine months in prison and a $6000 fine."


Now we're talking.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
RightSaidFred
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1094
Sydney
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #113 - Feb 26th, 2018 at 11:03am
 
goldkam

To your first point to apply this to every situation is absurd, which is the reason why I have not. However every kilometre makes a difference, I support this point through scientific research and scientific tests. I will explain how that guy who pulls out in front could either get cleaned up or be missed. If the listed speed was, for arguments sake 60km/hr and an individual was speeding doing say 80km/hr. It would take 24 metres longer to stop, 24 metres that that one car behind may not have. No doubt I am not denying speed is the primary or sole factor but please do not deny that slowing down a few kilometres won't make a difference. It is proven empirically. Explain that to families who have lost their children or family members on the road, in cases it does happen, your point is logical in some circumstances.

To your second point. I have stated it in this post and others. Please don't put words in my mouth. I have stipulated it is a primary causer of road accidents, highlighted through 40% of road accidents being attributed to by speed. Your statement is similar to a proposition such as this "95% of people I saw today were fathers.....that means 95% are domestic violence perpetrators.

I do agree with you that yes inappropriate speed is also a factor, a major factor. I pose this....if you are doing nothing wrong on the roads why are speed cameras a concern. If they slow down one idiot from 100km/hr to 60km/hr, well I say it is worth it. Precaution is necessary.   


I kind of agree and disagree they seem to collect stats or BS a lot about speed and alcohol .... if some one blows over then the cause is alcohol that is not the root cause it was what they do wrong .. many drivers are bad sober getting drunk just makes them worse...... in reality speed and alcohol are usually contributing factors.

Where I agree a driver has limits on how fast they can go before there ability to be safe is compromised same with booze watch mythbusters on this and it does not take much booze to see the effects.

What they don't do is measure poor driver behaviour even when an accident occurs. What they need to do is more intense driver training and testing. Not defending drink driving or speeding.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
RightSaidFred
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 1094
Sydney
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #114 - Feb 26th, 2018 at 11:04am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 26th, 2018 at 10:48am:
Yes!

"WA’s former top cop has urged the State Government to dramatically increase penalties for using a mobile phone while driving to more accurately reflect the deadly threat that distracted drivers pose.

"Former police commissioner Karl O’Callaghan said current penalties were having little impact on driver behaviour and he believed motorists should instead be hit with a more serious offence such as dangerous driving which carried a fine of up to $3000 and six demerit points for first offenders.

"Second offenders would face an automatic 12-month licence ban and the possibility of up to nine months in prison and a $6000 fine."


Now we're talking.



Should be double that if they are texting
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 83249
Gender: female
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #115 - Feb 27th, 2018 at 11:45am
 

Perth woman who lost her partner to texting driver wants phone blockers to be installed in all vehicles

                                       Smiley

"TextStopper is one firm that has developed a device that blocks calls, texts and social media alerts from displaying on a phone while driving."



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 83249
Gender: female
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #116 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 9:59am
 

From my friend, Tom:

"Seizing mobile phones, cutting user accounts or installing jamming devices in vehicles might be worth looking at, but the perfect solution is far from clear."

Tom Percy: Offenders should cop more than fines for phone use
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6608
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: This guy should be banned for life !
Reply #117 - Mar 15th, 2018 at 5:02am
 
You want to really save lives?

Ban alcohol, totally, no more grog at all

Death penalty for making it.

Then get serious about drugs.

Grab addicts off the street, dry them out without any help, just shove them into a room until they dry out, then put them back on the street.

Death penalty for making or dealing drugs.

Finally
Make everyone do a driving test, a full one both high speed and city driving, with a 90% minimum pass mark, every 5 years.

That will bring the road toll down 50,60,70%

But it will cost the grubberment in
Enforcement
Taxes
And people no longer being able to drive so no revenue from
Petrol
Car tax
Rego
And all the little fines they get

Plus
The grubberment would have to get public transport up to third world or possibly even second world level if they want people to pay income tax when they can get to work

These bull shite road rules are simply the grubberment playing at pretending to be doing something while reaping cash for doing nuffink.

Grubs, theives, the largest criminal organization in the world
THE AUSTRALIAN GRUBBERMENT.
Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 
Send Topic Print