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Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers (Read 3328 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #45 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:46pm
 
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:42pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:38am:
Carl D wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:33am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:42am:
You might not like Perth.

About 95% of drivers are clueless when it comes to roundabouts.



Yep... and doubly so when it comes to dual lane roundabouts.

And, as I have mentioned a while back, I would like to see red light cameras on the pedestrian crossings in St. Georges Terrace Perth - the one at London Court and the other one further up the Terrace near Central Park. And, also the one outside North Perth Plaza in Fitzgerald Street close to where I work.

Judging by the number of cars, buses, etc. I see going through the red light at these crossings it is only a matter of time before a pedestrian is seriously injured or worse.


Indeed.

The London Court one is just near my office, and I see cars and buses go through the red light all the time.

A couple of people have been hit, but no major injuries (thankfully).

Perth drivers really do NOT like stopping for pedestrians.

I've never understood why.


Sounds like most places in Italy.
Pedestrian crossing are more like targeting zones.


I was stuck for about 12 - 15 minutes once, trying to cross the road in Rome.

I also saw someone knocked off their scooter in Rome, and while he lay on the ground all the other drivers abused him for getting in their way.

None of them stopped to help.

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RightSaidFred
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #46 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:47pm
 
Gordon wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:25am:
Point to point speed cameras and dashcams would be more effective than setting a speed camera at the bottom of a hill.


They have average speed cameras in the ACT (must be a Fed thing) that is a better idea then fixed cameras. An average speed camera could effectively cover a black spot as the cameras can be placed where they are more accurate.
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RightSaidFred
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #47 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:48pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:46pm:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:42pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:38am:
Carl D wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:33am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:42am:
You might not like Perth.

About 95% of drivers are clueless when it comes to roundabouts.



Yep... and doubly so when it comes to dual lane roundabouts.

And, as I have mentioned a while back, I would like to see red light cameras on the pedestrian crossings in St. Georges Terrace Perth - the one at London Court and the other one further up the Terrace near Central Park. And, also the one outside North Perth Plaza in Fitzgerald Street close to where I work.

Judging by the number of cars, buses, etc. I see going through the red light at these crossings it is only a matter of time before a pedestrian is seriously injured or worse.


Indeed.

The London Court one is just near my office, and I see cars and buses go through the red light all the time.

A couple of people have been hit, but no major injuries (thankfully).

Perth drivers really do NOT like stopping for pedestrians.

I've never understood why.


Sounds like most places in Italy.
Pedestrian crossing are more like targeting zones.


I was stuck for about 12 - 15 minutes once, trying to cross the road in Rome.

I also saw someone knocked off their scooter in Rome, and while he lay on the ground all the other drivers abused him for getting in their way.

None of them stopped to help.



Yep that is Italy.
Monaco is equally scary I drove around the F1 circuit ..... the roads are small even by French standards !
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #48 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 3:19pm
 
The word safety is the key.
If a vehicle is speeding and a stationary revenue raiser takes a photo of the speeding vehicle then that photo is now evidence that the vehicle was in fact there on the road at that time. It is not clarification that the vehicle was speeding. That then falls on the correct calibration of the lazer measuring device. These things can, and do read incorrectly at times.

So IMHO if that vehicle is allowed to continue speeding then in a safety situation  the person behind the camera that took the photo is now responsible for the speeding vehicle, as well as the driver of the speeding vehicle. The person that has witnessed the speeding vehicle and taken a photo has a duty of care to pull that vehicle up and caution the driver...hence what police used to do.

With the way it is now, a camera takes the photo and the vehicle has not stopped speeding. If that vehicle continues on its way then takes out another vehicle and kills everyone inside I believe the speed camera is responsible along with the driver of the speeding vehicle. The same as in real life situations on building sites etc. If you witness a dangerous action you must alert the persons performing the dangerous action or you could be liable. 
Speed cameras don't do this....they are PURE revenue raising aids for our gov....nothing more.

SO IMHO THE POLICE MUST ALERT THE DRIVER OF THE SPEEDING VEHICLE IMMEDIATELY IF THEY WISH TO HAND OUT AN INFRINGEMENT NOTICE! !!!!


All this talk of safety and noone has raised the most important question!
Why have our motor vehicles been built to and have the capacity to travel more than double the speed of our HIGHEST speed limit in Australia?
We slowed down the heavy vehicles yet a ford falcon can do well over 200kph. WHY???
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #49 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 4:39pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 3:19pm:
The word safety is the key.
If a vehicle is speeding and a stationary revenue raiser takes a photo of the speeding vehicle then that photo is now evidence that the vehicle was in fact there on the road at that time. It is not clarification that the vehicle was speeding. That then falls on the correct calibration of the lazer measuring device. These things can, and do read incorrectly at times.

So IMHO if that vehicle is allowed to continue speeding then in a safety situation  the person behind the camera that took the photo is now responsible for the speeding vehicle, as well as the driver of the speeding vehicle. The person that has witnessed the speeding vehicle and taken a photo has a duty of care to pull that vehicle up and caution the driver...hence what police used to do.

With the way it is now, a camera takes the photo and the vehicle has not stopped speeding. If that vehicle continues on its way then takes out another vehicle and kills everyone inside I believe the speed camera is responsible along with the driver of the speeding vehicle. The same as in real life situations on building sites etc. If you witness a dangerous action you must alert the persons performing the dangerous action or you could be liable. 
Speed cameras don't do this....they are PURE revenue raising aids for our gov....nothing more.

SO IMHO THE POLICE MUST ALERT THE DRIVER OF THE SPEEDING VEHICLE IMMEDIATELY IF THEY WISH TO HAND OUT AN INFRINGEMENT NOTICE! !!!!


All this talk of safety and noone has raised the most important question!
Why have our motor vehicles been built to and have the capacity to travel more than double the speed of our HIGHEST speed limit in Australia?
We slowed down the heavy vehicles yet a ford falcon can do well over 200kph. WHY???


An easier solution would to fit speed control devices that both limit the speed based on electronic signage. Volvo's actually read speed signs and warn the driver .... it could also slow the car down or maybe issue an automatic ticket.

The Nissan GTR can be programmed to be a very average performing car based on GPS co-ordinates but once on a race track it turns into a beast !
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #50 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 4:57pm
 
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
Gordon

If the MythBusters were still around I guess we could get them to see the damage difference between a kid ran over at 40 v 50 ........ a small child (below bonnet height) would be dead in both cases ..... a taller teenager might slide over the bonnet.
Either case I see no difference !


40 to 50 would be negligible but remember stopping distances increase exponentially with speed so it would be more the difference between 10 and 25.

If the Govt was serious about road safety they'd drop import tariffs on vehicles that have aspects of level 1 and 2 automation like automated emergency braking and lane departure.
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #51 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 8:32pm
 
What great idea.

And while we are at it, stop those damn joggers, what if they fall over, they are a danger to themselves and others.

And the bloody jets, there is no need for going 1000 klm/he

The stupidity of your arguments is astounding.

Pedestrians should stay on the footpath.
Do they charge train drivers when a FOOL walks onto the tracks
Do they charge ferry captains if some FOOL swims in front of it
Do they charge pilots if some FOOL walks onto the tarmac

Slowing down traffic is causing more deaths than allowing speed
City drivers die in droves in the country
Why
Because for 11 months of the year they drive at 40, 50 perhaps 60 klm/ hr
Then they pack their cars and hit the highway at 110 klm/he

They may be great drives around the city as slow speed and with constant need for attention to the idiots around them.
But on the freeway, they are driving a straight road, no distractions and at a speed far too slow to keep their mind on the job
They drift off........bang they are dead

Or perhaps they have something happen that causes them to react
At 40, 50 or 60 they stand on the brakes or swerve, perfect solution and very effective.
But at 110 klm/ he, it's suicide.

The only cure for the road toll is better drivers, with more experience in differing conditions at both slow and fast speeds.
Not stick a camera on a stick, or in a van.

But for a lazy, greedy and incompetent grubberment the cameras are the perfect solution to a bad budget.

People who support speed cameras are fools
Begging to be robbed
Who have no licence, can't drive or who are incompetent themselves and too afraid to go over 60 k

Pathetic
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #52 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:04am
 
Integrity in the police forces?

When my uncle died, he was lauded at his funeral as 'the honest copper', leaving the room pondering why there ever was a need to make such a distinction at all......

When an organisation is handed unequal powers in society, and far too many of its members abuse that power as some form of right, and furthermore that abuse is not only upheld by those set up to oversee their activities, but is defended and condoned on a daily basis via a process of self-regulation ..... there is NO integrity in any way.

While police forces, under extreme pressure, are slowly changing, there remain far too many who are dishonest, abusive, in violation of law and common decency, and even outright criminal.  That the magistracy and the judiciary actively promote, support, and permit such behaviour is the only crime greater in this nation, and always has been.

Changes must begin with the magistracy... hang ten a day until the rest get the message... the only real solution is a clean sweep and a total rebuilding, along with dismantling of those rules that protect the current dishonesty, such as totally inadequate rights of appeal as brought in, in NSW, by that rat Carr.

Hang ten politicians a day until the rest get the message.
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #53 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:13am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:39am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:38am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:34am:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:33am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
Quote:
QLD police union: hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’; don’t save lives


The head of the Queensland Police Union (QPU) has publically acknowledged that covert and hidden speed cameras do not save lives and are indeed nothing more than revenue raisers for the state government.

Confirming the public’s perception that hidden camera vans and trailers have no effect in reducing the road toll, the president of the Queensland Police Union, Ian Levers, told CarAdvice it’s time for a change.
“They are revenue raisers pure and simple, we all know it,” Levers said.

“With any other organisation if you try something and it doesn’t work, you try something different. However, with these covert speed cameras, even though we know they don’t work, rather than try something different senior police simply roll out more? It doesn’t make sense.”

Having made the comments regarding the covert speed cameras earlier this month, CarAdvice got in contact with Mr Levers with a series of questions regarding whether the whole concept of speed enforcement required a rethink.

“All forms of mobile, covert and unmarked speed cameras including speed camera trailers do nothing to affect the road toll.”

http://www.caradvice.com.au/616161/qld-police-hidden-speed-cameras-are-revenue-r...



I often drive past the biggest revenue raiser in NSW possible the country. The camera just before Spit Bridge.
Since they introduced the camera accidents have gone up due to people panic breaking when they see the camera.

On the counter side the one in the harbour tunnel is heavily advertise but averages 32 or so infringements per day !

Mixed views on it personally its a bit hypocritical speeding and complaining about being caught !



Why panic brake if you werent speeding in the first place?


The Spit bridge camera is at the bottom on a very steep hill.




Do the vehicles there not have breaks, or gearboxes?



The original Spit Bridge cameras 2 of them were taken out and moved to the F1 up from the Hawksberry bridge going north. They were moved because they had been successfully challenged too many times by the Lawyers and their friends of Mosman and surrounding suburbs. Wealthy people dampen the revenue stream.
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #54 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:16am
 
Gordon wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:21am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
Quote:
QLD police union: hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’; don’t save lives


The head of the Queensland Police Union (QPU) has publically acknowledged that covert and hidden speed cameras do not save lives and are indeed nothing more than revenue raisers for the state government.

Confirming the public’s perception that hidden camera vans and trailers have no effect in reducing the road toll, the president of the Queensland Police Union, Ian Levers, told CarAdvice it’s time for a change.
“They are revenue raisers pure and simple, we all know it,” Levers said.

“With any other organisation if you try something and it doesn’t work, you try something different. However, with these covert speed cameras, even though we know they don’t work, rather than try something different senior police simply roll out more? It doesn’t make sense.”

Having made the comments regarding the covert speed cameras earlier this month, CarAdvice got in contact with Mr Levers with a series of questions regarding whether the whole concept of speed enforcement required a rethink.

“All forms of mobile, covert and unmarked speed cameras including speed camera trailers do nothing to affect the road toll.”

http://www.caradvice.com.au/616161/qld-police-hidden-speed-cameras-are-revenue-r...



"hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’ "

Good.

The Police and State Governemnt should have plenty of revenue.

If you don't want to contribute - don't speed.

It couldn't be simpler, or fairer.



Actually speed cameras are not fair as are frequently set up in places at the bottom of a hill where unless you're staring at the speedo it's very easy to creep a few KMs enough over to get a ticket.

What's a lot fairer is point to point speed detectors.









Once again - I cruise control at the limit - I often watch people going past me, sometimes as much as 30kph over... and I've been muttering lately "they'll get you when they put in those average speed cameras".

I love being a right bastard on a single lane* when someone behind me has smoke coming out of their ears because the old bastard in front of them won't do the 'local' speed of 120 in the 100..... they race ahead in the first double lanes, then slow back down behind the next car ...... been beside one when the flash went off in the back of the RMS ute that parks on the highway sometimes... cracked up laughing...

*when I feel their eyes boring into me, I sit right next to the white line so they can't see past me well, if they tail-gate I knock the CC down a notch at a time until they back off ... ain't I a bastard?  Thing is, nobody wants to run into a heavy SUV like a Territory.... and I've got a nice towbar on the back, too... for penetration of radiators etc..... and if they pass and swing in at me, I just swing back and watch their pants go brown ..... you want to play Adrenalin Rush on the highway... I'm your huckleberry.... been driving vans for years and you don't scare me....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #55 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:17am
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:39am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:38am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:34am:
RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:33am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
Quote:
QLD police union: hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’; don’t save lives


The head of the Queensland Police Union (QPU) has publically acknowledged that covert and hidden speed cameras do not save lives and are indeed nothing more than revenue raisers for the state government.

Confirming the public’s perception that hidden camera vans and trailers have no effect in reducing the road toll, the president of the Queensland Police Union, Ian Levers, told CarAdvice it’s time for a change.
“They are revenue raisers pure and simple, we all know it,” Levers said.

“With any other organisation if you try something and it doesn’t work, you try something different. However, with these covert speed cameras, even though we know they don’t work, rather than try something different senior police simply roll out more? It doesn’t make sense.”

Having made the comments regarding the covert speed cameras earlier this month, CarAdvice got in contact with Mr Levers with a series of questions regarding whether the whole concept of speed enforcement required a rethink.

“All forms of mobile, covert and unmarked speed cameras including speed camera trailers do nothing to affect the road toll.”

http://www.caradvice.com.au/616161/qld-police-hidden-speed-cameras-are-revenue-r...



I often drive past the biggest revenue raiser in NSW possible the country. The camera just before Spit Bridge.
Since they introduced the camera accidents have gone up due to people panic breaking when they see the camera.

On the counter side the one in the harbour tunnel is heavily advertise but averages 32 or so infringements per day !

Mixed views on it personally its a bit hypocritical speeding and complaining about being caught !



Why panic brake if you werent speeding in the first place?


The Spit bridge camera is at the bottom on a very steep hill.




Do the vehicles there not have breaks, or gearboxes?



The original Spit Bridge cameras 2 of them were taken out and moved to the F1 up from the Hawksberry bridge going north. They were moved because they had been successfully challenged too many times by the Lawyers and their friends of Mosman and surrounding suburbs. Wealthy people dampen the revenue stream.


Yeah and to be fair, going down hill on a twisty road, it's much better to keep your eyes on the road than on the speedo to make sure you're not going half a poofteenth over the speed limit Smiley
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #56 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:17am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:23am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:22am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:21am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
Quote:
QLD police union: hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’; don’t save lives


The head of the Queensland Police Union (QPU) has publically acknowledged that covert and hidden speed cameras do not save lives and are indeed nothing more than revenue raisers for the state government.

Confirming the public’s perception that hidden camera vans and trailers have no effect in reducing the road toll, the president of the Queensland Police Union, Ian Levers, told CarAdvice it’s time for a change.
“They are revenue raisers pure and simple, we all know it,” Levers said.

“With any other organisation if you try something and it doesn’t work, you try something different. However, with these covert speed cameras, even though we know they don’t work, rather than try something different senior police simply roll out more? It doesn’t make sense.”

Having made the comments regarding the covert speed cameras earlier this month, CarAdvice got in contact with Mr Levers with a series of questions regarding whether the whole concept of speed enforcement required a rethink.

“All forms of mobile, covert and unmarked speed cameras including speed camera trailers do nothing to affect the road toll.”

http://www.caradvice.com.au/616161/qld-police-hidden-speed-cameras-are-revenue-r...



"hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’ "

Good.

The Police and State Governemnt should have plenty of revenue.

If you don't want to contribute - don't speed.

It couldn't be simpler, or fairer.




Don't want to get busted DUI? Don't drink and drive.


Exactly.

Where's the problem?



The police etc claim that their interest is in saving lives and road safety. Hidden cameras in danger spots effectively hide the danger and put people at risk.

Instead of putting up signs and warning people of the danger they hide a camera and raise revenue.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #57 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:25am
 
Dnarever wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:17am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:23am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:22am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:21am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
Quote:
QLD police union: hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’; don’t save lives


The head of the Queensland Police Union (QPU) has publically acknowledged that covert and hidden speed cameras do not save lives and are indeed nothing more than revenue raisers for the state government.

Confirming the public’s perception that hidden camera vans and trailers have no effect in reducing the road toll, the president of the Queensland Police Union, Ian Levers, told CarAdvice it’s time for a change.
“They are revenue raisers pure and simple, we all know it,” Levers said.

“With any other organisation if you try something and it doesn’t work, you try something different. However, with these covert speed cameras, even though we know they don’t work, rather than try something different senior police simply roll out more? It doesn’t make sense.”

Having made the comments regarding the covert speed cameras earlier this month, CarAdvice got in contact with Mr Levers with a series of questions regarding whether the whole concept of speed enforcement required a rethink.

“All forms of mobile, covert and unmarked speed cameras including speed camera trailers do nothing to affect the road toll.”

http://www.caradvice.com.au/616161/qld-police-hidden-speed-cameras-are-revenue-r...



"hidden speed cameras are ‘revenue raisers’ "

Good.

The Police and State Governemnt should have plenty of revenue.

If you don't want to contribute - don't speed.

It couldn't be simpler, or fairer.




Don't want to get busted DUI? Don't drink and drive.


Exactly.

Where's the problem?



The police etc claim that their interest is in saving lives and road safety. Hidden cameras in danger spots effectively hide the danger and put people at risk.

Instead of putting up signs and warning people of the danger they hide a camera and raise revenue.


Good.
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #58 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:25am
 
Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:17am:
Dnarever wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:13am:
The original Spit Bridge cameras 2 of them were taken out and moved to the F1 up from the Hawksberry bridge going north. They were moved because they had been successfully challenged too many times by the Lawyers and their friends of Mosman and surrounding suburbs. Wealthy people dampen the revenue stream.


Yeah and to be fair, going down hill on a twisty road, it's much better to keep your eyes on the road than on the speedo to make sure you're not going half a poofteenth over the speed limit Smiley


You understand that going north from the Hawksbury is all up hill ?

What happened here is that in this location as you came up over the top of the hill 300 metres ahead the road went from 3 lanes to two. Particularly on a friday afternoon people in the right lane would come around the sweeping bend going fast and be faced with a sea of brake lights caused by the build up from the merging traffic. Often cars virtually stopped what felt like 50 metres in front with a 110 speed limit. It was scary.

The roads people upgraded to 3 lanes right through the area and fixed the problem, 6 months later the camera's went in and the speed limit was reduced all to fix a problem that didn't exist any longer. It was absolutely brilliant, the work of quality idiots. Hey but people now pay the fines from cameras that were previously proven to be unreliable beaten in court as a matter of course.
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Re: Police union- speed cameras are revenue raisers
Reply #59 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:27am
 
The problem is locals that traverse their highways freeways and streets slow down where they know of cameras, then they happily speed off.
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