Australian Politics Forum - Electric cars are here to stay...

Sir lastnail

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #15 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:01am

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:55pm:

The Mechanic

Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get.
The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost.

There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish !

Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues and not sure it will be Tesla

as with most of these green concepts...

they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will...

there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat...

Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car Wink

See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !!

Smell the power and smell the fear Cheesy

LOL

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #16 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't! Grin

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #17 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:20am

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:01am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:55pm:

The Mechanic

Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get.
The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost.

There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish !

Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues and not sure it will be Tesla

as with most of these green concepts...

they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will...

there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat...

Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car Wink

See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !!

Smell the power and smell the fear Cheesy

LOL

I have brush-less/lithium poly powered RC cars that can hit 60kph but only last 20 minutes even with a 5000 m-amp Lipo. I have a petrol RC car that can hit 120 and last about the same.
I can get my electric ones up to the same speed but the cost would be thousands. My petrol car cost me $200 !
My mate bought a $400 brushless motor upgrade (for an RC car that cost $700) but that car can not catch my petrol one !

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #18 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't! Grin

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #19 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:37am

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't! Grin

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

Which may or may not have to do wit hthe car. What I'm asking is how do you know that each and every car is sold on a loss.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #20 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:08am

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:20am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:01am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:55pm:

The Mechanic

Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get.
The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost.

There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish !

Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues and not sure it will be Tesla

as with most of these green concepts...

they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will...

there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat...

Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car Wink

See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !!

Smell the power and smell the fear Cheesy

LOL

I have brush-less/lithium poly powered RC cars that can hit 60kph but only last 20 minutes even with a 5000 m-amp Lipo. I have a petrol RC car that can hit 120 and last about the same.
I can get my electric ones up to the same speed but the cost would be thousands. My petrol car cost me $200 !
My mate bought a $400 brushless motor upgrade (for an RC car that cost $700) but that car can not catch my petrol one !

and yet nearly all RC models sold use electric drive trains and no one is complaining about the battery life !!

and if you need longer times hybrids are now appearing !

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #21 - Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:11am

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't! Grin

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

You talk like Tesla's finances are unique to itself and no one else !

Tesla is a start-up and not an established company like GMC which has been going for more than 50 years and nearly went bankrupt if it wasn't for a government bailout !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #22 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 8:37am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:37am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't! Grin

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

Which may or may not have to do wit hthe car. What I'm asking is how do you know that each and every car is sold on a loss.

Yes it does, sorry to tell you but when you run a company selling cars the idea it to make a profit

I think you need to read up more about Tesla and its issues.

As keep saying electric cars are still a decade or two off being a real threat to petrol / diesel cars. Watch the Chinese on this by then Tesla might be gone !

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Electric cars are here to stay... Reply #23 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:11am Why cant you just answer the question?
Back to top	In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy) IP Logged

RightSaidFred

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #24 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:34am

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:23am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:39pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 2:12pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 8:31am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 10^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 7:37am:

TheFunPolice wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:51pm:

..and the planet accountants all know it, they just pretend they don't! Grin

They need another evolution in technology there are both serious technical and economic issues that need to be resolved.

Such as?

Price to start with ... Teslas cost 100-200k yet this leads to them making a loss ...... not economically sustainable. They claim 400KM out of a recharge which I assume is feathering the accelerator .... then an hour to rapid recharge (if there is one near where you run out) .... based on that most petrol cars would beat it to Sydney to QLD as it would require 2-3 recharges wasting 3 hrs !

Not against them they just need more work. The Chinese are on to it so maybe in a decade or two they will be practical.

Where do you get this figure of 100-200k?

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-details/tesla/model-s/75d-sportback-sedan-5dr-reduction-gear-1sp-awd-ac193kw/2000275?trackLink=newCarResults1

Not up to speed with google ?

And yes they are making a loss at these numbers !
There are a few Chinese companies on to it so they will both get the price and practicality working ...... one has already built one that blows the doors off Teslas but as I said it will need time !

Where in that link does it say selling at a loss.

OK go google Tesla and look up their financial situation .... you do know how to use google ? Their financial issues are very well known and publicised !

You talk like Tesla's finances are unique to itself and no one else !

Tesla is a start-up and not an established company like GMC which has been going for more than 50 years and nearly went bankrupt if it wasn't for a government bailout !!

No I am talking about a car company that makes electric cars that is really struggling for many reasons. The big reason is the technology is just not ready needs more work. Try reading my post instead of speculating BS.

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RightSaidFred Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1094 Sydney Gender:	Re: Electric cars are here to stay... Reply #25 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:36am Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:11am: Why cant you just answer the question? Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #26 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:04pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:11am:

Why cant you just answer the question?

Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !

No I'm asking you to provide evidence for an assertion.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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RightSaidFred

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #27 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:07pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:11am:

Why cant you just answer the question?

Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !

No I'm asking you to provide evidence for an assertion.

Oh well if you think Tesla doing really well go buy one and shares in the company and report back you little baby.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #28 - Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:08pm

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:07pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 12:04pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 11:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 15^th, 2018 at 10:11am:

Why cant you just answer the question?

Because anyone who has the slightest interest in the Auto industry knows Tesla is really struggling. Are you a baby ? Go look it up and educate yourself !

No I'm asking you to provide evidence for an assertion.

Oh well if you think Tesla doing really well go buy one and shares in the company and report back you little baby.

I'm not making a comment at all, all I'm asking is for you to provide evidence to your claim that Tesla is losing money on every car.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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RightSaidFred

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Posts: 1094
Sydney
Gender: male

Re: Electric cars are here to stay...
Reply #29 - Feb 17^th, 2018 at 1:27pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 11:08am:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:20am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 14^th, 2018 at 10:01am:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 7:01pm:

RightSaidFred wrote on Feb 13^th, 2018 at 6:55pm:

The Mechanic

Yes its cart before the horse business model, they are trying to commercialise a car that has failed very basic proof of concept and are running into all sorts of issues these electric car worshipping zombies don't get.
The basic concept is there they just need to address the many elephants in the room one is cost.

There are some interesting reports out there that look at what you posted in more detail plus many other issues. Apparently the build quality on them is rubbish !

Electric will be the vehicle of the future just at least a decade or 2 of sorting out the numerous issues and not sure it will be Tesla

as with most of these green concepts...

they can't stand on their own..... mostly... but in time they will...

there's no need to SHOVE them down everyones throat...

Very little two stroke deisel engines are used in model RC planes and helicopters these days. They have all been replaced with electric drive trains and Lithium battery technology. It won't belong before this reaches mainstream and the ubiquitous car Wink

See the power you can get from just two small electric powered toy helicopters !!

Smell the power and smell the fear Cheesy

LOL

I have brush-less/lithium poly powered RC cars that can hit 60kph but only last 20 minutes even with a 5000 m-amp Lipo. I have a petrol RC car that can hit 120 and last about the same.
I can get my electric ones up to the same speed but the cost would be thousands. My petrol car cost me $200 !
My mate bought a $400 brushless motor upgrade (for an RC car that cost $700) but that car can not catch my petrol one !

and yet nearly all RC models sold use electric drive trains and no one is complaining about the battery life !!

and if you need longer times hybrids are now appearing !

Because you can whip in a fully charged battery in seconds .... I am just pointing out while Electric Brushless can match Petrol RC cars its at 10-20 times the cost. What I do notice is off the mark the brushless is quick but once the petrol revs up it disappears, its quite dangerous doing over 100 kph they get out of sight real quick and you need about twice the space. Preferable looking down from about 5-10m up as well.

I think the solution for real electric cars will be a quick battery swap system which I assume one of the car companies is at least working on.

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