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Judge 'unreasonable' (Read 16042 times)

polite_gandalf

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #60 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:24pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:59pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:47am:

freediver wrote on Feb 21^st, 2018 at 7:15pm:

How is this any different from the desire of a member of the KKK (or their spouse) wanting to defend a KKK member who is on charges of KKK related terrorism by turning up to court in a white hood? Are you saying that freedom of dress only counts if you wear your 'going out' clothes?

Thats absurd. Women who veil wear it everywhere outside their house. KKK members only don their hoods when they are trying to intimidate and/or make political statements. A KKK member doesn't go about their everyday lives wearing a face covering - a veiled woman does.

Why does this make a difference Gandalf?

Quote:

The judge therefore should apply common sense and appreciate that a KKK member turning up in court in their white cloaks and hoods are there specifically to intimidate and/or cause a political stir, while a woman in a veil, whose family member is on trial, is not.

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

Quote:

As for your last question - I am saying a decision to remove intimidating political activists from a court room (for that is the justification you are defending right?) - should be based on who is actually there in order to be intimidating political activists - not on some arbitrary blanket assumption that anyone with a face covering must necessarily be political activists.

I think it should be based on whether people might be intimidated by it.

True, people could feel intimidated by it. Do you think the niqab should be banned on the street too?

Do we have the right to be offended?

That's a question.

FD will defend the right to wear KKK outfits on the street - but will maintain his insistence that such an outfit is no different whatsoever to a muslim woman wearing a full veil - ie both are used for sinister purposes.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #61 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:19pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

I think it should be based on whether people might be intimidated by it.

And how many people do you think would feel intimidated seeing KKK members in full hooded garb, compared to seeing a woman in a full veil?

Did you flunk common sense at school?

That's different, G. When people see niqabis, they think they're going to be blown up. How can FD defend these people?

He defends the KKK because they should have every right to express themselves in a free and open society.

It's chalk and cheese.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #62 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #63 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 8:12pm

Quote:

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense.

Are you attempting to suggest that he isn't?

Quote:

And how many people do you think would feel intimidated seeing KKK members in full hooded garb, compared to seeing a woman in a full veil?

I think any face covering would be perceived as intimidating in a courtroom.

Quote:

FD will defend the right to wear KKK outfits on the street - but will maintain his insistence that such an outfit is no different whatsoever to a muslim woman wearing a full veil - ie both are used for sinister purposes.

You often complain that I am not vocal enough in my defence of people's right to wear a letterbox outfit.

Do you agree that Islam is a far greater threat to freedom and democracy than the KKK?

Quote:

I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom

And the judge.

Quote:

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

Get back to me when second guessing people's intent becomes fundamental to their rights.

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Frank

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #64 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

In western countries today the niqab and the burqa ha precisely the same purpose as thekkk outfit - intimidation, segregation, warning and menacing.

No other purpuse. Modesty is a stupid excuse, culture even worse - they have LEFT BEHIND the shitholes where the garb is cultural requirement. And they supposed to have left the shitholes because of thst very oppressiveness.

There is no good reason for the islamic garb in western countries. It is a signal of apartness and separation.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #65 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 11:13pm

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 8:12pm:

Quote:

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense.

Are you attempting to suggest that he isn't?

Quote:

And how many people do you think would feel intimidated seeing KKK members in full hooded garb, compared to seeing a woman in a full veil?

I think any face covering would be perceived as intimidating in a courtroom.

Quote:

FD will defend the right to wear KKK outfits on the street - but will maintain his insistence that such an outfit is no different whatsoever to a muslim woman wearing a full veil - ie both are used for sinister purposes.

You often complain that I am not vocal enough in my defence of people's right to wear a letterbox outfit.

Do you agree that Islam is a far greater threat to freedom and democracy than the KKK?

Quote:

I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom

And the judge.

Quote:

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

Get back to me when second guessing people's intent becomes fundamental to their rights.

Not vocal enough? Good heavens, FD, no one could ever claim that. You're a staunch defender of decent white people everywhere - and the KKK.

You believe in Freeeedom.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #66 - Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 11:15pm

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

In western countries today the niqab and the burqa ha precisely the same purpose as thekkk outfit - intimidation, segregation, warning and menacing.

No other purpuse. Modesty is a stupid excuse, culture even worse - they have LEFT BEHIND the shitholes where the garb is cultural requirement. And they supposed to have left the shitholes because of thst very oppressiveness.

There is no good reason for the islamic garb in western countries. It is a signal of apartness and separation.

So do you support its ban, dear chap?

That's a question.

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Johnnie

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #67 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 5:19am

They may be stalkers behind those masks, or future mass murderers, maybe they can gather information in bikies cases for extortion, or identify jurors for persuasion purposes, maybe just having half a dozen grim reapers sitting in the gallery is enough to deter witnesses from giving evidence. Jurors should be allowed to wear masks. The court room is not a place for masks no matter who you are.
What is to stop anyone from wearing a Burka in court.

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cods

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #68 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:06am

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1518063128/0#0 date=1518063128][url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-08/unreasonable-judge-refused-woman-access-to-court-because-of-her/9408828]Judge 'unreasonable' for barring woman from Victorian court because of n

so bwain next time you catch a plane out of Sydney or Melb.....will you be quite happy to sit amongst a group of "women" wearing nihabs.....

..

knowing there is no reasonable law that can make them remove them..

just askin bwain!

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Frank

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #69 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:42am

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 11:15pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

In western countries today the niqab and the burqa ha precisely the same purpose as thekkk outfit - intimidation, segregation, warning and menacing.

No other purpuse. Modesty is a stupid excuse, culture even worse - they have LEFT BEHIND the shitholes where the garb is cultural requirement. And they supposed to have left the shitholes because of thst very oppressiveness.

There is no good reason for the islamic garb in western countries. It is a signal of apartness and separation.

So do you support its ban, dear chap?

That's a question.

I support open disdain for and ridicule of it. I do not respect anyone who wears a niqb or a burqa in the West. So I am not pretending otherwise.

I would refuse to interact with someone who chooses to cover her face when speaking with me. It's rude, it attributes motives to me which I find highly offensive.
The very least I would turn my back to such a bint if communication was inevitable, if only to reciprocate her disdane for me.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #70 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:45am

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:42am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 11:15pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

In western countries today the niqab and the burqa ha precisely the same purpose as thekkk outfit - intimidation, segregation, warning and menacing.

No other purpuse. Modesty is a stupid excuse, culture even worse - they have LEFT BEHIND the shitholes where the garb is cultural requirement. And they supposed to have left the shitholes because of thst very oppressiveness.

There is no good reason for the islamic garb in western countries. It is a signal of apartness and separation.

So do you support its ban, dear chap?

That's a question.

I support open disdain for and ridicule of it. I do not respect anyone who wears a niqb or a burqa in the West. So I am not pretending otherwise.

I would refuse to interact with someone who chooses to cover her face when speaking with me. It's rude, it attributes motives to me which I find highly offensive.
The very least I would turn my back to such a bint if communication was inevitable, if only to reciprocate her disdane for me.

So that's a no. Thanks, old chap.

FD?

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Frank

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #71 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:51am

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:45am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:42am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 11:15pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

In western countries today the niqab and the burqa ha precisely the same purpose as thekkk outfit - intimidation, segregation, warning and menacing.

No other purpuse. Modesty is a stupid excuse, culture even worse - they have LEFT BEHIND the shitholes where the garb is cultural requirement. And they supposed to have left the shitholes because of thst very oppressiveness.

There is no good reason for the islamic garb in western countries. It is a signal of apartness and separation.

So do you support its ban, dear chap?

That's a question.

I support open disdain for and ridicule of it. I do not respect anyone who wears a niqb or a burqa in the West. So I am not pretending otherwise.

I would refuse to interact with someone who chooses to cover her face when speaking with me. It's rude, it attributes motives to me which I find highly offensive.
The very least I would turn my back to such a bint if communication was inevitable, if only to reciprocate her disdane for me.

So that's a no. Thanks, old chap.

FD?

I would ban immigration by niqabis and burqa bints - justice to be clear.

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #72 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 12:51pm

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:51am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:45am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 11:42am:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 11:15pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 3:33pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 12:21pm:

Would you accept it if the judge asked the KKK people and the female terrorist supporters what their intentions were with what they choose to wear and only let them in they gave the right answer? Would you accept it if the KKK people made a habit of wearing their hood in public?

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense. I think its obvious to just about everyone except you who in a courtroom, between the veiled muslim woman and the KKK member in full KKK garb, is there to intimidate and who is not.

Can you think of a time when any KKK member ever dresses in his KKK outfit for any other purpose than to intimidate one or more people and/or cause a political stir? I can't. Get back to me when KKK outfits become normal everyday outfits like the niqab - until then, there is no argument here.

In western countries today the niqab and the burqa ha precisely the same purpose as thekkk outfit - intimidation, segregation, warning and menacing.

No other purpuse. Modesty is a stupid excuse, culture even worse - they have LEFT BEHIND the shitholes where the garb is cultural requirement. And they supposed to have left the shitholes because of thst very oppressiveness.

There is no good reason for the islamic garb in western countries. It is a signal of apartness and separation.

So do you support its ban, dear chap?

That's a question.

I support open disdain for and ridicule of it. I do not respect anyone who wears a niqb or a burqa in the West. So I am not pretending otherwise.

I would refuse to interact with someone who chooses to cover her face when speaking with me. It's rude, it attributes motives to me which I find highly offensive.
The very least I would turn my back to such a bint if communication was inevitable, if only to reciprocate her disdane for me.

So that's a no. Thanks, old chap.

FD?

I would ban immigration by niqabis and burqa bints - justice to be clear.

Most liberal of you, dear boy.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #73 - Feb 24^th, 2018 at 1:59pm

cods wrote on Feb 24^th, 2018 at 8:06am:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1518063128/0#0 date=1518063128][url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-08/unreasonable-judge-refused-woman-access-to-court-because-of-her/9408828]Judge 'unreasonable' for barring woman from Victorian court because of n

so bwain next time you catch a plane out of Sydney or Melb.....will you be quite happy to sit amongst a group of "women" wearing nihabs.....

..

knowing there is no reasonable law that can make them remove them..

just askin bwain!

An interesting question. As I am not related or married to any of them, I doubt they'd want to sit next to me. As I assume they have undergone a security check, the same as all other passengers, Cods, I have no fears they are carrying weapons or bombs. Why would you fear to sit amongst them, Cods? Why indeed? Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Judge 'unreasonable'
Reply #74 - Feb 26^th, 2018 at 9:25am

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2018 at 8:12pm:

Quote:

As I said, the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense.

Are you attempting to suggest that he isn't?

I'm talking about your insistence that its all about intimidation. If thats the criteria, then the judge should be allowed to exercise common sense in determining who is there specifically to intimidate, and who is not. As opposed to some absurd blanket assumption that anyone with a face covering must necessarily be there to intimidate. Of course I seriously doubt that the judge in question would agree with your absurd logic about why she should be banned -but if she was, then she is as delusional/prejudiced as you.

Quote:

I think any face covering would be perceived as intimidating in a courtroom.

Which of course is absurd. Who besides rabid Islamophobes/racists would possibly feel intimidated by a veiled woman sitting in court? This convenient excuse can basically be applied anywhere, and used to justify a ban on the niqab/burqa anywhere. A park bench? Obviously "would be perceived as intimidating" - right? If not, why not?

Quote:

You often complain that I am not vocal enough in my defence of people's right to wear a letterbox outfit.

Indeed - and here we see your hypocrisy on clear display. If you cannot even defend a woman's right to wear her normal going out clothes in a courtroom to support her husband - not even anywhere near the stand, but in the audience, not bothering anyone, then you can (and no doubt will) justify and/or apologise for any proposed ban on the outfit - in any situation.

Quote:

Do you agree that Islam is a far greater threat to freedom and democracy than the KKK?

here we go Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Quote:

Get back to me when second guessing people's intent becomes fundamental to their rights.

yes that right folks, you heard it here - assuming sinister intentions of someone dressed in KKK outfit is "second guessing people's intent".

Is it possible for you to make your spineless apologies for racists and bans on freedom any more absurd FD?

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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