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Democracy expressed as a percentage (Read 1538 times)
67klty
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Democracy expressed as a percentage
Feb 5th, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
If the true level of democracy in a system could be expressed as a percentage. What would Australia be?

Given a dictatorship is close to 0% (assuming you aren't the dictator)
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Bias_2012
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #1 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 9:55pm
 
3%
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Gordon
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #2 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm
 
42
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #3 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:01pm
 
30%.   Around 70% of government is carried on by unelected bodies - that has increased  in recent years due to the 'privatisation' of essentially government utilities etc, by the imposition of a contracted senior public service, and by the appointment of 'commissions' and 'corporations' that ostensibly operate outside of government but are on the government payroll.

You may add to that contracted work sent outside under the myth of 'efficiency'.

I say 70% because to some extent all of those newly created to serve the old mates club bodies are still bound to a very minor extent by the ultimate will of the people at the ballot box, though separated from that ballot box by a planned 'cut-out' and thus not subject to criticism of the voting public, and theoretically are still bound by the Rule of Law which lays down the values and standards by which they must function.

That last is, of course, theory and not practice in this nation (and many others) and those appointed bodies etc operate according to their own idea of 'right'.

As an example, the Human Rights And Equal Opportunity Commission, while theoretically bound by the Rule of Law, which lays down equal treatment under law and clear rights, actually operates as a matter of policy to ONLY uphold equal rights for specified groups, and by its own standards and not those of Law.

In older times, these were called Star Chambers or Kangaroo Courts.

As for appointed old mate/party faithful seat on the board 'corporations', they function outside of the laws and regulations of the Public Service, while essentially duplicating the activities and duties of the Public Service, and escape all criticism by theoretically acting as a business, which they emphatically are not.  On top of that, their actions bring no criticism of the relevant Minister responsible for the area these 'corporations' cover, of his/her Party, since they are theoretically a corporation and not part of government (while being paid by government).

This is the kind of hoodwinking that has been steadily undermining this nation and its democracy for forty years now......... and is the kind of behaviour that will result in riots in the streets one day and the forceful overthrow of our current style of government.

On that last - far better for all parties to get on board, get together, and work out a viable democracy for this nation that actually serves the people.... and gets rid of all the lies and false corporations etc that are nothing more than refuges for failed politicians and old mates to continue to suck deeply of the public tit.  All money better spent in providing to this nation what it deserves.

Look at the 'privatised' gas supply these days... a once public utility - the average household on gas under the ridiculous and totally false 'global economy of privatisation' (two lies for the price of one) is about to cop an extra cost of $430 a year..... a rate of cost rise far outside CPI and earnings increases, and a perfect example of what happens to a nation that has no real democracy of government working for the people and the nation first and foremost.

ADDS:-  I think my 30% is generous and perhaps is based on fanciful thinking....... when we see the effects of policy thrusts such as 'globalisation' and 'privatisation' - and the utter lack of response by the body politic to the sufferings and outcry of the voting public - one could be forgiven for thinking we live in a Third World Banana Republic Dictatorship of El Jefe Of The Two Parties.
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« Last Edit: Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:08pm by Ye Grappler »  

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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #4 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:08pm
 
Quote:
30%.   Around 70% of government is carried on by unelected bodies


And what if this reflects the will of the people?
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #5 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Quote:
30%.   Around 70% of government is carried on by unelected bodies


And what if this reflects the will of the people?


How can it be proven that it does, and is not simply an imposition?  Given a choice, nobody would pay through the nose to register their car.... nobody would seriously consider it right to have to pay a court to rectify a wrong, at massive expense......
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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67klty
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #6 - Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:22pm
 
I think 3% is too generous

I get 0.000000633%

number of senators/approx. government bills passed in term/Australian population*100

Assuming senators and parties don't coalesce (yeah right) and of the 500 bills 80% were packaged, so that figure is optimistic
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #7 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 6:01am
 
What would a country with a 'hundred percent' democracy look like? Just as it is in America, everyone would be armed to the teeth. Just as it is in Germany, there would be tolerance shown to Sharia Law and all the victimisation of women that that entails. Sex slavery and the drug trade of Brazil and other South American countries? A hundred percent democracy would be anarchy.
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #8 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:11am
 
Gordon wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm:
42


Ah Douglas Adam's reference ..... what do you get when you multiply 6x9 ?

I always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe Smiley
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freediver
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #9 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 7:34pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:18pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 5th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Quote:
30%.   Around 70% of government is carried on by unelected bodies


And what if this reflects the will of the people?


How can it be proven that it does, and is not simply an imposition?  Given a choice, nobody would pay through the nose to register their car.... nobody would seriously consider it right to have to pay a court to rectify a wrong, at massive expense......


It's a tax. Roughly 50% of the population wants to increase taxes. Roughly 50% wants to decrease them. And justice is expensive, but worth the price.
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #10 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:16pm
 
How do you measure democracy?
I was thinking about 30% before I read Graps post...then I thought to myself that it would even be less than that.

I don't think you should fall into the trap of equating various freedoms with democracy.  That would be wrong.

I don't think you can equate mandatory attendance on election days as democratic.  Where is the choice in that?

So how do you measure Democracy?  Can it be measured?



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freediver
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #11 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:23pm
 
So many people assume it is undemocratic merely if they don't get things their way - like how could other people possibly disagree with me???
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #12 - Feb 6th, 2018 at 10:55pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
How do you measure democracy?
I was thinking about 30% before I read Graps post...then I thought to myself that it would even be less than that.

I don't think you should fall into the trap of equating various freedoms with democracy.  That would be wrong.

I don't think you can equate mandatory attendance on election days as democratic.  Where is the choice in that?

So how do you measure Democracy?  Can it be measured?




You can avoid turning up on voting day by paying a fairly small fine. You don't cop a visit from the secret police.
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #13 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 7:39am
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
How do you measure democracy?
I was thinking about 30% before I read Graps post...then I thought to myself that it would even be less than that.

I don't think you should fall into the trap of equating various freedoms with democracy.  That would be wrong.

I don't think you can equate mandatory attendance on election days as democratic.  Where is the choice in that?

So how do you measure Democracy?  Can it be measured?


The whole thread is pointless democracy is a binary thing you either select who governs via public consensus using various different types of government/voting processes or you don't.

Its very trivial complaining about going for a 5-10 minute walk and getting your named ticked off if that annoys you you might be happier with a totalitarian dictatorship where you don't have to even think about anything where speaking out can see you removed from the gene pool !
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Re: Democracy expressed as a percentage
Reply #14 - Feb 7th, 2018 at 7:45am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 10:55pm:
Grendel wrote on Feb 6th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
How do you measure democracy?
I was thinking about 30% before I read Graps post...then I thought to myself that it would even be less than that.

I don't think you should fall into the trap of equating various freedoms with democracy.  That would be wrong.

I don't think you can equate mandatory attendance on election days as democratic.  Where is the choice in that?

So how do you measure Democracy?  Can it be measured?




You can avoid turning up on voting day by paying a fairly small fine. You don't cop a visit from the secret police.


Being an ex-rugby player ( I am not a small person) I quite enjoy walking over the top of the ALP and Greenie fan people rudely trying to give me a useless piece of paper they say we should be using less of.

The other piece of comedy I saw one year walking back after voting I saw this old Magna driving past with the standard blue smoke blowing out the back, there we two teenage girls in the back yelling out vote greens ....... and I am the one walking to the polling booth ? I guess they are not as bad as Al Goore with his 7 mansions that all have wood burning fireplaces zipping around the world on a private jet ...... but they hypocrisy is all there to see.
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