Australian Politics Forum - "Two minutes to Midnight"

The_Barnacle

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6205
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #30 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:02am

Ajax wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 8:56am:

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 8:14am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 6:14pm:

Isn't the figure only 3% per annum of all carbon emissions come from human sources?

Bobby you need to do some reading of the Carbon cycle
Human emissions are ADDITIONAL emissions which accumulate in the atmosphere

Why are they additional........????

Are we importing CO2 from mars or Jupiter....????

NO...!

We're not we are using CO2 made produced and trapped here on Earth, its all a natural cycle with no additions from other worlds.

Our releasing of the CO2 is not part of the Carbon cycle. The fossil fuels, land clearing and agriculture is only happening because of human civilisation

Back to top

The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

IP Logged

John_Taverner

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2178
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #31 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:46am

lee wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 4:02pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 3:45pm:

lee wrote on Jan 28^th, 2018 at 1:13pm:

But it does add CO2. So is that added CO2 catered for?

Doesn't increased greening reduce CO2?

you tell me.

"Natural CO2 sources account for the majority of CO2 released into the atmosphere. Oceans provide the greatest annual amount of CO2 of any natural or anthropogenic source. Other sources of natural CO2 include animal and plant respiration, decomposition of organic matter, forest fires, and emissions from volcanic eruptions. There are also naturally occurring CO2 deposits found in rock layers within the Earth’s crust that could serve as CO2 sources."

https://www.netl.doe.gov/research/coal/carbon-storage/carbon-storage-faqs/what-a...

BTW- What happened to your natural variation argument, about 2017 being hottest non El Nino year?

edit: ""The implications of this study are enormous," Ming emphasized. "The fact that plant respiration is likely 30 percent higher than previous estimates should warn all global modelers that an updated inspection is warranted regarding how we model carbon flows in and out of terrestrial ecosystems globally." "

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-11/uom-ceb111717.php

Just for kids (and brain dead geriatrics)

Read, then answer the questions afterwards.

http://www.ducksters.com/science/ecosystems/oxygen_cycle.php

Question 1
House plants

A. Help to absorb carbon dioxide thus freshening the air in the house.

(Plants produce oxygen as a waste product of making sugar using sunlight, carbon dioxide, and water. )
or

B. They increase the CO2 in Lee's house, resulting in severe brain damage, which leads him to post mind numbingly ignorant posts on this forum.

Question 2. Increased plant life
A. Increases CO2, or
B. Normally absorbs CO2.

Question 3
Fill in the gaps:

The process by which plants absorb carbon dioxide, water and light to produce oxygen and biomass is called ph_t_s_nth_sis.

Now for a bonus question:

Dark Coniferous Forests

A. Absorb heat, resulting in a net contribution to global warming
B. Absorb CO2, resulting in a net decrease in Global warming.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:53am by John_Taverner »

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16400
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #32 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 10:41am

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:46am:

Just for kids (and brain dead geriatrics)

So you disbelieve the science? You denier you.

That paper referred to by Eurekalert is available at -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-01774-z

So in which category do you fit?

But perhaps you are a Social Scientist. Wink

BTW - You still haven't got back to me about 2 "measurements" at different times, both claiming to be the warmest ever, shows natural variability. Especially when the latter one is cooler than the former.

Edit: Another non Watts, Supernova website. Grin

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 29^th, 2018 at 10:48am by lee »

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16400 Gender:	Re: "Two minutes to Midnight" Reply #33 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 10:54am The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 9:02am: Our releasing of the CO2 is not part of the Carbon cycle. The fossil fuels, land clearing and agriculture is only happening because of human civilisation You mean like exhalation?
Back to top	IP Logged

John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2178 Gender:	Re: "Two minutes to Midnight" Reply #34 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:23pm Lee - What do plants release during daylight? Oxygen or carbon dioxide? What do plants release at night? oxygen or carbon dioxide? Given that plants GROW, is there a net emission of oxygen or CO2 averaged over day and night? I'm just fishing for vestiges of native intelligence here.
Back to top	IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16400
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #35 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 1:34pm

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:23pm:

Lee - What do plants release during daylight? Oxygen or carbon dioxide?

What do plants release at night? oxygen or carbon dioxide?

Given that plants GROW, is there a net emission of oxygen or CO2 averaged over day and night?

I'm just fishing for vestiges of native intelligence here.

Perhaps you should try your own pond. Wink

So tell us what you think of the Nature paper.

All this brought to you from the bloke who quotes Hotwhopper. Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95261 Melbourne Gender:	Re: "Two minutes to Midnight" Reply #36 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:27pm Given that you can grow trees as a carbon offset it says that trees or plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere.
Back to top	IP Logged

John_Taverner

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2178
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #37 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 6:01pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 3:27pm:

Given that you can grow trees as a carbon offset it says that trees or plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere.

Correct. Lee doesn't understand the basics. He's obsessed with a paper about fluxes without actually appreciating the nature of fluxes.

Lee - this is for you:

I wish this wind would die down.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16400
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #38 - Jan 29^th, 2018 at 7:10pm

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 6:01pm:

I wish this wind would die down.

It's them beans. Wink

Now to the nitty-gritty.

Yes. Plants sequester CO2.

That new paper postulates that the previously accepted sequestration is not as efficient as first thought. If a plant isn't as efficient at keeping its food down, are its emissions now not natural?

Now John, when are you going to tell us how the 2017 warmest year without El Nino, isn't warmer than 1997, also a year without El Nino, due to natural variation?

You keep ducking the question.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16400
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #39 - Jan 30^th, 2018 at 11:11am

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 29^th, 2018 at 12:23pm:

Lee - What do plants release during daylight? Oxygen or carbon dioxide?

What do plants release at night? oxygen or carbon dioxide?

Given that plants GROW, is there a net emission of oxygen or CO2 averaged over day and night?

I'm just fishing for vestiges of native intelligence here.

I know you haven't been around much. perhaps you missed this -

Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #84

or there is this -

"Date:
August 12, 2013
Source:
National Science Foundation
Summary:
Levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere rise and fall each year as plants, through photosynthesis and respiration, take up the gas in spring and summer, and release it in fall and winter. Now the range of that cycle is expanding as more carbon dioxide is emitted from burning fossil fuels and other human activities. "

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130812170338.htm

So much for simplistic pretty pictures.

Back to top

IP Logged

John_Taverner

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2178
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #40 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 7:44am

As the planet heats up, the annual carbon fluctuation cycles increase in amplitude. Yes. This has been known for years. Do you know why there is an annual fluctuation in the first place? (After all, we have a North and South hemisphere.)

The sad part is that as the planet heats up due to fossil fuel combustion, what were previously carbon sinks are now becoming net emitters. That is the message from that paper. It's getting harder and harder as time goes on to reverse the effects of fossil fuel burning. (I wrote quite a bit about feedbacks early on in the piece.) So we need to act quickly.

By the way, dark temperate conifer forests have a net warming effect due to albedo effects. At those latitudes, the albedo effect is greater than the effect of CO2 sequestration. Anyone who thinks they are doing their bit for Global Warming by planting pine trees in the temperate zone, is mistaken.

Anyway. The weather has calmed down for a while. Bye !

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2018 at 7:59am by John_Taverner »

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16400
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #41 - Jan 31^st, 2018 at 10:50am

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 7:44am:

Do you know why there is an annual fluctuation in the first place? (After all, we have a North and South hemisphere.)

I thought I covered that.

lee wrote on Jan 30^th, 2018 at 11:11am:

Levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere rise and fall each year as plants, through photosynthesis and respiration, take up the gas in spring and summer, and release it in fall and winter. Now the range of that cycle is expanding as more carbon dioxide is emitted from burning fossil fuels and other human activities. "

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130812170338.htm

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 31^st, 2018 at 7:44am:

The sad part is that as the planet heats up due to fossil fuel combustion

That's an assertion. Do you have empirical evidence? Not computer models, that CO2 is the cause. Remember warming causes CO2 to rise, via outgassing of the oceans. The greatest contributor to CO2 levels.

Also remember why CO2 is used in refrigeration - it gives up its heat quickly.

But I am glad that you agree with me that plants can emit CO2.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2018 at 11:07am by lee »

IP Logged

it_is_the_light

Gold Member

Offline

Christ Light

Posts: 41429
The Pyramid of LIGHT
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #42 - Feb 19^th, 2018 at 3:51pm

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 12:40pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

And here I was think this Topic was John Taverner's admission that the 'End was Nigh' for his role as Mod of Environment.

Like a Nazgul, I was coming in to ...feast on your flesh.
Cheesy

I don't know who you are, but I just don't have much free time to spare for this forum any more. I have been away for over a year as I have other interests.

Happy to help if asked.

many blessings and it is good to see we have a REAL moderator ..

not some half witted hack that hasn't the time nor acumen to facilitate moderation duties ..

you were less than adequate mr taverner yet rejoice !

for you are forgiven, so be at peace

namaste

╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

Back to top

ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

IP Logged

Bobby.

Moderator

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95261
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: "Two minutes to Midnight"
Reply #43 - Feb 20^th, 2018 at 9:40pm

it_is_the_light wrote on Feb 19^th, 2018 at 3:51pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 12:40pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 26^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

And here I was think this Topic was John Taverner's admission that the 'End was Nigh' for his role as Mod of Environment.

Like a Nazgul, I was coming in to ...feast on your flesh.
Cheesy

I don't know who you are, but I just don't have much free time to spare for this forum any more. I have been away for over a year as I have other interests.

Happy to help if asked.

many blessings and it is good to see we have a REAL moderator ..

not some half witted hack that hasn't the time nor acumen to facilitate moderation duties ..

you were less than adequate mr taverner yet rejoice !

for you are forgiven, so be at peace

namaste

╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

dear master Light,
John missed the main point as many others have also missed it.
Science is all about putting forward a theory and debating it.
Even Einstein had a theory of relativity - not a law of relativity.
People are free to debate any theory here whether it be global warming or cooling or
natural climate variation.
Any of those theories could be true and the reality is probably somewhere in between.

cheers
Bobby.

Back to top

IP Logged